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Northern Ireland22208 Posts
On July 06 2010 04:00 Pokebunny wrote:
Other one, this one's mostly aimed at Testie but anyone can answer, why do you like going for the ghost marchers + pk build on arachna rather than a more conventional build? It seems like they serve the same purpose - maneuverability for ganks and escapes, but if you want to do so, why not go with ghost marchers -> geometers or steamboots -> pk? They seem to overlap in role. One idea that someone brought up to me (wala?) was that it's far harder to set up ganks without them in higher level games, but I still feel like sacrificing the attack speed and carry potential of arachna for so long can really hurt your lategame. What do you guys think?
I don't quite get how phase + geometers are comparable to steamboots + blink. You grab phase and blink on gankers, and arachna let's face it is a very good ganker. I also find blink lets me farm far deeper into the enemy side of the map, as well as places I wouldn't normally go. This is because of the easy escape mechanism you have of blink & tp, or just simply blinking out. So if you're raping people with blink and also getting good farm out of it, you can easily "catch up" in building your carry items. Blink is only 2150, that's the cost of a yasha or an ultimate orb so it isn't setting you back that much. The benefits it can bring you will let you make up that 2150 pretty easily.
Having said that, there are some games where going blink is inappropriate. If you're behind, you shouldn't go for blink mainly because you won't be able to solo many of their heroes. The idea behind blink is that you can pick off anyone you want who is alone, or even pick off someone in a pairing because you're ahead and they're behind. You'll normally be ahead if you rape your mid lane (I can't see sidelaning arachnas getting blink), and hopefully your side lanes have at least broken even so you will be ahead of their sidelane heroes too.
That's my take on it. I don't think arachna is a really powerful hero. He's a good pubbashing hero, but is quite lackluster in higher level games. Testie can get away with it because he's just a really top player.
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United States10654 Posts
On July 06 2010 04:17 ahswtini wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2010 04:00 Pokebunny wrote:
Other one, this one's mostly aimed at Testie but anyone can answer, why do you like going for the ghost marchers + pk build on arachna rather than a more conventional build? It seems like they serve the same purpose - maneuverability for ganks and escapes, but if you want to do so, why not go with ghost marchers -> geometers or steamboots -> pk? They seem to overlap in role. One idea that someone brought up to me (wala?) was that it's far harder to set up ganks without them in higher level games, but I still feel like sacrificing the attack speed and carry potential of arachna for so long can really hurt your lategame. What do you guys think? I don't quite get how phase + geometers are comparable to steamboots + blink. You grab phase and blink on gankers, and arachna let's face it is a very good ganker. I also find blink lets me farm far deeper into the enemy side of the map, as well as places I wouldn't normally go. This is because of the easy escape mechanism you have of blink & tp, or just simply blinking out. So if you're raping people with blink and also getting good farm out of it, you can easily "catch up" in building your carry items. Blink is only 2150, that's the cost of a yasha or an ultimate orb so it isn't setting you back that much. The benefits it can bring you will let you make up that 2150 pretty easily. Having said that, there are some games where going blink is inappropriate. If you're behind, you shouldn't go for blink mainly because you won't be able to solo many of their heroes. The idea behind blink is that you can pick off anyone you want who is alone, or even pick off someone in a pairing because you're ahead and they're behind. You'll normally be ahead if you rape your mid lane (I can't see sidelaning arachnas getting blink), and hopefully your side lanes have at least broken even so you will be ahead of their sidelane heroes too. That's my take on it. I don't think arachna is a really powerful hero. He's a good pubbashing hero, but is quite lackluster in higher level games. Testie can get away with it because he's just a really top player.
I compared them because I see ghost marchers and blink both as "ganking" items, and steamboots and firebrand as "carrying" items. I think that either getting one of them for ganking and then building towards carry would be more effective, I was just surprised that testie went with such a gank-centered build.
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On July 05 2010 17:46 JeeJee wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2010 14:38 SwaY- wrote:On July 05 2010 08:06 Amnesia wrote:
Seriously, I went down from like 1600 to 1450 in like a course of two days now. wtf am I supposed to do? I try joining 1500/1550+ games and I get kicked, and in like 1300-1600 games I just get straight up raped because my team is just absolute garbage.
-___-------------- Get good at junglers like wb or ws, rarely in low lvl play do they come at you at jungle, buy your own wards if you get ganked though, let your team hold their own until you have enough shit then rape.. assist in defense though if you think everyone else that should get you out of 1400 for sure you should be able to farm way more in lane given that you have freefarm (and since you insist you are a 1600s player, 1400 games should be freefarm and then some (i.e. free hero gold)) so i don't think foresting is actually a good idea if you're way better than everyone in the game. just destroy them straight up and gank the other lanes so that even if they're losing, with your ganks they will be able to get on top of it. you will probably be buying your own chicken and your own wards but with likely first blood being yours, plus the freefarm, it shouldn't really matter also, were you really 1600 ?>.< 1550 and 1450 isn't that different tbh ![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/Fxiru.png)
yeah i was 1606 at my highest after the reset. i remember pokebunny was like wtf because i had a higher psr than him at one point 
okay maybe i exaggerated a little, but 100 psr loss is STILL BULLSHIT...ARGH
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United States10654 Posts
Your high is 1615. JeeJee, try again - change the graph to 60 or 90 days and zoom in
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On July 06 2010 04:01 Heen wrote:
Back then, the imba'heroes were undying, rhasta, dp, bane, kunkka and necro. Not very storm-friendly.
All I remember is that bloodstone and heart were ridiculous so storm's dps late game didn't cut it either. I'm not sure if storm needs a nerf but he is definitely overused/overrated. I guess, excluding highest lvl of competition, it's easier to play storm than counter it with good support/teamwork which makes him relatively imba.
Five Mechanics in DotA that damn near impossible to balance:
1. Movement speed - anything that produces an advantage in movement whether through blink or static increase will be and has been abused.
2. Pure Damage - any thing that creates pure damage that bypasses resistance and armor will be abused.
3. Invulnerability frames - any thing that creates instances where the hero is unaffected by anything outside of silence.
4. Images - good luck with trying to fix something that can undeniably be the best DPS item in the game or one of the worst. Manta makes this worse as it affects number 1.
5. Gold income scaling- you can either make it overpowered or underpowered.
All of the current heroes that are usually top-banned or top-picked all have at least 2 of the 5 listed. No hero should have more than 1. Which is why I consider PotM balanced after a single change to Leap. The only exception to this is Enchantress and that's because currently her health scales about as fast as the normal creeps do.
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On July 06 2010 06:04 Judicator wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2010 04:01 Heen wrote:
Back then, the imba'heroes were undying, rhasta, dp, bane, kunkka and necro. Not very storm-friendly.
All I remember is that bloodstone and heart were ridiculous so storm's dps late game didn't cut it either. I'm not sure if storm needs a nerf but he is definitely overused/overrated. I guess, excluding highest lvl of competition, it's easier to play storm than counter it with good support/teamwork which makes him relatively imba. Five Mechanics in DotA that damn near impossible to balance: 1. Movement speed - anything that produces an advantage in movement whether through blink or static increase will be and has been abused. 2. Pure Damage - any thing that creates pure damage that bypasses resistance and armor will be abused. 3. Invulnerability frames - any thing that creates instances where the hero is unaffected by anything outside of silence. 4. Images - good luck with trying to fix something that can undeniably be the best DPS item in the game or one of the worst. Manta makes this worse as it affects number 1. 5. Gold income scaling- you can either make it overpowered or underpowered. All of the current heroes that are usually top-banned or top-picked all have at least 2 of the 5 listed. No hero should have more than 1. Which is why I consider PotM balanced after a single change to Leap. The only exception to this is Enchantress and that's because currently her health scales about as fast as the normal creeps do.
I think you're also forgetting summons, what about BM maphawks? Where do Visage and Broodmother fit into this bill, two of the gayest heroes this version?
Also push heroes like Pugna and Enigma (Dark Seer has No. 1 and No. 4), even Chen doesn't have the above, unless you mean that they all have higher gold income scaling through jungling.
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Summons aren't that bad because they do not scale as well and require a fairly heavy investment of management from the player. Fixing the summons isn't hard. This partially why Chen is "balanced" in the sense that it's all front-loaded.
DS has 1 on a relatively long CD since there is a greater priority on Vacuum and Ion Shell. Images are enemy hero dependent and are uncontrollable which means no focus bullshit. There is a great inconsistency in its use and effect.
Same goes for Enigma and Pugna, they'll never crack that broken tier because Engima doesn't farm that fast the entire game or benefit greatly from farm after a certain point aka after his Blink. Pugna has 2 but not much else. Both of them are front-loaded.
Broodmother has 1 at an early phase and has it on demand as well later on. She also has that pseudo invul with two of her skills. Web should never have scaled and the movement speed needs to be removed or heavily nerfed. There needs to be a timed life on her original spawning spiderlings.
Visage has 1, and pseudo 3. The other shit I feel can be balanced, but not the armor which basically gives you a free hit. He requires a lot of work to play right. The Gargs can be easily balanced though.
I am talking about the heroes where the opponent doesn't have a good chance once a certain pretty reachable gold or level limit has been hit. For Storm to be easy mode the minute Linkens hits is not good for the game, the same applies to Visage with the first spawn and Gargs, Brood the second she gets Web, and so on. Shit like that hurts the game time and time again.
Spectre had 4 of the above. Bristle had something close in 48b, I only say that because I actually worked out the math for him during that time, ~135 damage per fully stacked spray plus Radiance closer to 150 with a Curiass. Fuck those heroes.
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On July 06 2010 07:29 Judicator wrote:
Summons aren't that bad because they do not scale as well and require a fairly heavy investment of management from the player. Fixing the summons isn't hard. This partially why Chen is "balanced" in the sense that it's all front-loaded.
DS has 1 on a relatively long CD since there is a greater priority on Vacuum and Ion Shell. Images are enemy hero dependent and are uncontrollable which means no focus bullshit. There is a great inconsistency in its use and effect.
Same goes for Enigma and Pugna, they'll never crack that broken tier because Engima doesn't farm that fast the entire game or benefit greatly from farm after a certain point aka after his Blink. Pugna has 2 but not much else. Both of them are front-loaded.
Broodmother has 1 at an early phase and has it on demand as well later on. She also has that pseudo invul with two of her skills. Web should never have scaled and the movement speed needs to be removed or heavily nerfed. There needs to be a timed life on her original spawning spiderlings.
Visage has 1, and pseudo 3. The other shit I feel can be balanced, but not the armor which basically gives you a free hit. He requires a lot of work to play right. The Gargs can be easily balanced though.
I am talking about the heroes where the opponent doesn't have a good chance once a certain pretty reachable gold or level limit has been hit. For Storm to be easy mode the minute Linkens hits is not good for the game, the same applies to Visage with the first spawn and Gargs, Brood the second she gets Web, and so on. Shit like that hurts the game time and time again.
Spectre had 4 of the above. Bristle had something close in 48b, I only say that because I actually worked out the math for him during that time, ~135 damage per fully sacked spray plus Radiance closer to 150 with a Curiass. Fuck those heroes.
Bristle has teh Magic Stix, Spectre nerfed to death, but still sometimes viable.
Doom is really gay this version though with movement speed aura. Every hero having 400+ movespeed in team battle is really #$*#. Reminds me of when Chens usually got the Movement Speed Kobold for the 522 bullshit.
other news
CH has really fallen these days.
my predictions for IEM:
1. LGD.sGty
2. Nirvana.cn
3. EHOME (c'mon they cant win without DC sitting behind them)
4. Deity
5. ToT
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yo Poke or JeeJee what site did you use to get that chart? It'd be fun to play around and see ~
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On July 06 2010 10:55 Amnesia wrote:yo Poke or JeeJee what site did you use to get that chart? It'd be fun to play around and see ~
http://stats.maide.ca/
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United States10654 Posts
Beaten. Anyways, it's a great site for knowing more about your HoN stats.
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On July 06 2010 05:29 Pokebunny wrote:
Your high is 1615. JeeJee, try again - change the graph to 60 or 90 days and zoom in
he said over the past couple of days, what do the last month or 2 have to do with anything?
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On July 06 2010 05:28 Amnesia wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2010 17:46 JeeJee wrote:On July 05 2010 14:38 SwaY- wrote:On July 05 2010 08:06 Amnesia wrote:
Seriously, I went down from like 1600 to 1450 in like a course of two days now. wtf am I supposed to do? I try joining 1500/1550+ games and I get kicked, and in like 1300-1600 games I just get straight up raped because my team is just absolute garbage.
-___-------------- Get good at junglers like wb or ws, rarely in low lvl play do they come at you at jungle, buy your own wards if you get ganked though, let your team hold their own until you have enough shit then rape.. assist in defense though if you think everyone else that should get you out of 1400 for sure you should be able to farm way more in lane given that you have freefarm (and since you insist you are a 1600s player, 1400 games should be freefarm and then some (i.e. free hero gold)) so i don't think foresting is actually a good idea if you're way better than everyone in the game. just destroy them straight up and gank the other lanes so that even if they're losing, with your ganks they will be able to get on top of it. you will probably be buying your own chicken and your own wards but with likely first blood being yours, plus the freefarm, it shouldn't really matter also, were you really 1600 ?>.< 1550 and 1450 isn't that different tbh yeah i was 1606 at my highest after the reset. i remember pokebunny was like wtf because i had a higher psr than him at one point okay maybe i exaggerated a little, but 100 psr loss is STILL BULLSHIT...ARGH
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Oh man I've been out of the loop. No more just posting ze hahaha.
On-topic: I hate that I screwed myself over so hard in the very beginning KD-wise. If you check my Maide graph that shit just plummets at random points lol, but generally hovers around 2 otherwise :/
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Storm is used commonly because of what Heen said, the effort you have to put in to counter him vs playing him decently is unbalanced. Also, he is one of the few heroes who can go bloodstone even after the huge nerf and succeed. Linkens + bloodstone is a nightmare on storm and requires no active hero control. His ease of farming is probably in the top 10 with his remnant and shock. His ult doesn't have a cool down. I don't see where the confusion in him being used a ton comes from. No other hero can choose when to fight and when to leave as quickly as he can. Blinkers have cd, and invis have fade time. Even spells have cast time. Storm's ulti does not.
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HEEN!
I'm gonna be in Korea around August!
Where are you living now?
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gay....ryugie finally going to korea and I won't be there ;(
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On July 06 2010 15:02 paper wrote:
HEEN!
I'm gonna be in Korea around August!
Where are you living now?
Both Daejeon and Seoul :p
You're coming around August wtf? Isn't summer break almost over by then?
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On July 06 2010 15:01 Ack1027 wrote:
Storm is used commonly because of what Heen said, the effort you have to put in to counter him vs playing him decently is unbalanced. Also, he is one of the few heroes who can go bloodstone even after the huge nerf and succeed. Linkens + bloodstone is a nightmare on storm and requires no active hero control. His ease of farming is probably in the top 10 with his remnant and shock. His ult doesn't have a cool down. I don't see where the confusion in him being used a ton comes from. No other hero can choose when to fight and when to leave as quickly as he can. Blinkers have cd, and invis have fade time. Even spells have cast time. Storm's ulti does not.
linkens bkb storm is really horrendous to deal with
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On July 06 2010 16:29 Heen wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2010 15:02 paper wrote:
HEEN!
I'm gonna be in Korea around August!
Where are you living now? Both Daejeon and Seoul :p You're coming around August wtf? Isn't summer break almost over by then?
I graduated!
I'll probably be in Seoul for a couple weeks. We should meet up  + bdares kekeke
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EPT
