EPTYou forgot me.
[HoN/DotA] Let's Play~!! - Page 840
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Dark.Carnival
United States5095 Posts
You forgot me. | ||
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DCLXVI
United States729 Posts
Is this thread more general than the general forum? | ||
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milo
116 Posts
Backdooring: is this considered a low blow all around, or just at certain points in the game, or just a pub bnet thing, or what? I don't follow the pro scene at all, is it considered a legit tactic there? I'm wondering because: I was pubbing with 2 friends a few days ago. 5v5, our other two teammates are bot lane and promptly go 0-4 and 0-5. We call them out on this and they accuse us of being jerks and 'threaten to feed' (irony much), so we kick them. Down 9 kills and 2 players, we hold on as Phantom Lancer (me), Warlock, and Earthshaker. After about 45 minutes we're tired of being trapped in our base, and decide to have me go backdoor some raxes. Opposite team complains. Was that BM, or us just abusing the fact that the opposite team was awful, or both? | ||
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Elegance
Canada917 Posts
On April 20 2010 07:18 milo wrote: Gonna ask a DOTA question here in the DOTA thread: Backdooring: is this considered a low blow all around, or just at certain points in the game, or just a pub bnet thing, or what? I don't follow the pro scene at all, is it considered a legit tactic there? I'm wondering because: I was pubbing with 2 friends a few days ago. 5v5, our other two teammates are bot lane and promptly go 0-4 and 0-5. We call them out on this and they accuse us of being jerks and 'threaten to feed' (irony much), so we kick them. Down 9 kills and 2 players, we hold on as Phantom Lancer (me), Warlock, and Earthshaker. After about 45 minutes we're tired of being trapped in our base, and decide to have me go backdoor some raxes. Opposite team complains. Was that BM, or us just abusing the fact that the opposite team was awful, or both? a bit of everything | ||
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
On April 20 2010 07:18 milo wrote: Gonna ask a DOTA question here in the DOTA thread: Backdooring: is this considered a low blow all around, or just at certain points in the game, or just a pub bnet thing, or what? I don't follow the pro scene at all, is it considered a legit tactic there? I'm wondering because: I was pubbing with 2 friends a few days ago. 5v5, our other two teammates are bot lane and promptly go 0-4 and 0-5. We call them out on this and they accuse us of being jerks and 'threaten to feed' (irony much), so we kick them. Down 9 kills and 2 players, we hold on as Phantom Lancer (me), Warlock, and Earthshaker. After about 45 minutes we're tired of being trapped in our base, and decide to have me go backdoor some raxes. Opposite team complains. Was that BM, or us just abusing the fact that the opposite team was awful, or both? BD is bad, there is no justification for it under any circumstances, it just gives far too much advantage to the team backdooring. There's a reason why Icefrog implemented the change to towers and raxes to need crazy attack speed and damage in order to backdoor. The only players who say otherwise are players who never played a competitive or upper level game in their life. That being said, your situation is no exception, as you might have noticed, your attempts attract the attention of the entire opposite team with little to no chance of you getting killed. | ||
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Elemenope
Burkina Faso1704 Posts
On April 20 2010 07:18 milo wrote: Gonna ask a DOTA question here in the DOTA thread: Backdooring: is this considered a low blow all around, or just at certain points in the game, or just a pub bnet thing, or what? I don't follow the pro scene at all, is it considered a legit tactic there? I'm wondering because: I was pubbing with 2 friends a few days ago. 5v5, our other two teammates are bot lane and promptly go 0-4 and 0-5. We call them out on this and they accuse us of being jerks and 'threaten to feed' (irony much), so we kick them. Down 9 kills and 2 players, we hold on as Phantom Lancer (me), Warlock, and Earthshaker. After about 45 minutes we're tired of being trapped in our base, and decide to have me go backdoor some raxes. Opposite team complains. Was that BM, or us just abusing the fact that the opposite team was awful, or both? In dota you could | ||
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rabidch
United States20289 Posts
On April 20 2010 07:18 milo wrote: Gonna ask a DOTA question here in the DOTA thread: Backdooring: is this considered a low blow all around, or just at certain points in the game, or just a pub bnet thing, or what? I don't follow the pro scene at all, is it considered a legit tactic there? I'm wondering because: I was pubbing with 2 friends a few days ago. 5v5, our other two teammates are bot lane and promptly go 0-4 and 0-5. We call them out on this and they accuse us of being jerks and 'threaten to feed' (irony much), so we kick them. Down 9 kills and 2 players, we hold on as Phantom Lancer (me), Warlock, and Earthshaker. After about 45 minutes we're tired of being trapped in our base, and decide to have me go backdoor some raxes. Opposite team complains. Was that BM, or us just abusing the fact that the opposite team was awful, or both? I've only rarely seen backdooring in casual (not serious) pro games that got extremely ridiculous (ie 2 lanes down on each side etc.) however extremely good counters by the backdoored team because they knew it was coming. Most leagues have rules against backdooring on anything but outer towers. Low blow all around, but in pub bnets push mechanics isn't understood at all and nobody carries TPs so they overcomplain. | ||
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paper
13196 Posts
i think people just take sides on how successful/annoying it has for them doing/dealing with it. i've had a moderate number of successes with BDing, and BDing really equalizes the playing field when you're down as a high risk/reward tactic and moves the game away from a farm fest to actually doing shit, especially with the in-houses of old. tbh, i've lost more games than won by BDing and i still fully support it. context: TL IH's and pubs, not competitive leagues | ||
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milo
116 Posts
 I agree with many of the points here. I just found my situation funny, as if the opposing team had any right to complain after the huge lead they'd had all game. Leavers would never come up in pro matches. | ||
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JeeJee
Canada5652 Posts
if the game allows it, it should be a go. obvious exceptions are ones that crash the game or stuff like that. otherwise, if the game can't handle it, it's a bad game. plus with constant patching there's no reason for it to not be fixed, unless you can't logically lay out what is backdoor, in which case, what the fuck are you banning anyway | ||
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L
Canada4732 Posts
On April 20 2010 07:35 paper wrote: lol you missed the huge debate several hundred pages back. i think people just take sides on how successful/annoying it has for them doing/dealing with it. i've had a moderate number of successes with BDing, and BDing really equalizes the playing field when you're down as a high risk/reward tactic and moves the game away from a farm fest to actually doing shit, especially with the in-houses of old. tbh, i've lost more games than won by BDing and i still fully support it. context: TL IH's and pubs, not competitive leagues no people don't just take sides based on how successful/annoying it has been for them. I've fucking TP'd to a kotl wisp with chaos knight, ulted and smashed a throne solo in a 3v5 game which was hilarious (because i had fucking dagger on ck, so we could VS swap people up cliffs) and I still find it absolutely stupid as shit. It completely removes proper pushing from the game. I still think its bullshit and I wouldn't do it unless the other team has been griefing and we're down two players. BD doesn't equalize shit. It makes the team with a pre-hyper nerfed clinkz seven thousand times stronger, but since you've played dota for a grand total of 2 months (terribly might I add), you wouldn't know shit about how the throne used to be BDable with every single tower up. And your statement that it makes games less of a farmfest? Are you joking? It simply pins a team to their base if they can't win a 4v5 faster than a clinkz or lothar viper or whatever can raze their shit. That just makes shit get even farmier until one team can bust out and just roll the shit out of the other. The majority of the tower and rax mechanics added into the game have been an attempt to stop BDing. Pretty big hint there. | ||
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paper
13196 Posts
[x] Small sample size in argument. [x] Gross exaggeration with everything. [x] Condescending/belittling attitude and insults after a neutral opinion. [x] Retarded/nonsensical follow-up after this post. A resounding... Yes! | ||
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paper
13196 Posts
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TheMusiC
United States1054 Posts
just sayin' | ||
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L
Canada4732 Posts
On April 20 2010 08:16 paper wrote: Q: Did we just witness a genuine post by L? [x] Small sample size in argument. [x] Gross exaggeration with everything. [x] Condescending/belittling attitude and insults after a neutral opinion. [x] Retarded/nonsensical follow-up after this post. A resounding... Yes! Did we just witness a genuine post by paper? [x] Fucking retarded. A resounding... Yes! | ||
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Nitrogen
United States5345 Posts
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TheMusiC
United States1054 Posts
bd'ing raxes is gay/annoying as hell though ;p | ||
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
On April 20 2010 07:35 rabidch wrote: I've only rarely seen backdooring in casual (not serious) pro games that got extremely ridiculous (ie 2 lanes down on each side etc.) however extremely good counters by the backdoored team because they knew it was coming. Most leagues have rules against backdooring on anything but outer towers. Low blow all around, but in pub bnets push mechanics isn't understood at all and nobody carries TPs so they overcomplain. Even if you carry TPs, it's still a waste. It's a catch-22 for the BD-ed team at any level. Say Clinkz (or any other carry hero capable of BD-ing) back doors a tower, the other team carrying TPs have to be make a decision, either defend the backdoor, or counter-push. The latter isn't always an option and defending may take more than 1 hero. The second TPs are shown to the tower, the Clinkz runs away or TPs away or BoTs away, the Clinkz effectively just reset if all 5 TP-ed or (greatly) weakened map presence/control if less than 5 TP-ed. The worst part? You can't cancel your TP and fake a defense, because TPs have CD and more often than not, the BD-ing hero doesn't. If you let the Clinkz take the tower that's free gold for the entire team and a lost of map presence. There are no good benefits for the backdoored team, and any good outcomes are the exceptions rather than the rule. The general rule I have seen in IHLs and HS PUGs is that if the tower is in deny range, it's free game. | ||
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paper
13196 Posts
On April 20 2010 08:22 L wrote: Did we just witness a genuine post by paper? [x] Fucking retarded. A resounding... Yes! u still mad i'm better than you at sc2? | ||
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Nitrogen
United States5345 Posts
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