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Why I raged last night.
We played -ar, which is like, okay, I'm not going to staunchly oppose it, but there's like an 80% chance that I land a hero that I'm not comfortable with, and without a decent lineup elsewhere it's going to be a rough ride. And heen landing PA while Testie got NS did turn it into a rough start. I got Ursa, which would be the second time I'd played it, although maybe the... 15th or so time I've seen it played. Probably 10 times watching my friend (who's better than me), the rest seeing it in our IH games, mostly by Cats I think. I'm not counting every time a crappy pub takes it, because I don't bother trying to learn anything from them. This knowledge of Ursa is combined with a rather firm recollection of a discussion Testie and maybe adfa had about killing Roshan "as soon as I'm done with Vlad" which implied to me that this was a somewhat standard item build. I'd also seen quite a few Ursa jungle from the start, which I'm not comfortable doing but I try anyways, especially on Scourge side (as I usually find myself on Sent side). Particularly with a hero I'm not comfortable with, it's tough finding even ground on items to start off jungling with... I remember a couple weeks ago I landed N'aix and tried (not supposed to apparently) jungling from level 1, had to get a bottle, tangos, shield, everything, I was a complete mess, but I still managed to right the ship around half-way through and it was okay.
Anyways, aside from an extra Shield, I was doing somewhat okay. 1-4 or 0-4, I don't remember, before I just started raging in team chat. Basically, pintje told me Vlad sucks on Ursa. Okay, that's fine, I'll keep that in mind if I ever play this guy again, and I'll try to figure out another build, because thus far I've always seen Vanguard + Vlad into Heart-spam... I went Van-Vlad the other time I played Ursa, in an in-house, and the only comment I got was that I shoulda massed hearts instead of making a Butterfly. And given my prior experience on seeing this character, I don't *know* another build. By the time I heard it, I had Vanguard + Vlad + Tread, which is a sizeable time + gold investment at the point in the game (25 mins into the game I would guess).
He "offers" the suggestion of getting Blink + BoT. Okay, that's fine too, I'll keep it in mind. But right now, farming 2150 gold for the Dagger, which would leave me with *no health*, nor do I know how to use it with Ursa, given my lack of experience with and distaste for "fat melee heroes with no stun," so it wouldn't be very effective anyways. I said as much. I said, "okay, but I'll suck with blink so I won't get it this game." I didn't bother with the BoT, because I'd already gotten Treads, and I felt the lack of natural ASPD other than the Treads wasn't worth just selling it, buying a Boot, and spending more time farming up BoT (what does Treads sell for, 1000? so I'd still need to farm 1700, except if I sell it, I wouldn't have the attack speed = slower, so I'll keep it and if I end up needing the BoT I'll buy it later, is what I thought).
That should have been the end of conversation.
Of course he launches into this tirade about how I suck, how I'm taking builds from dota-allstars guides (I believe my friend mentioned guides said Vlad sucks, so I don't think that even applies), etc. Alright, what the fuck ever kid, I've already got the items unless I have an IRL human version of Weaver's ultimate or something there's nothing I can do, okay?
Anyways, Zelniq joins the conversation saying Vlad sucks and how Ursa isn't a Roshan-killer and stuff.
My response? I don't care. *THIS CONVERSATION SHOULD BE DONE ALREADY* what the fuck do people want me to do? So I say as much. I don't care. I've already heard Vlad sucks on Ursa during that game 50 times, I don't need people keep spamming it while I'm trying to play. I can't play DotA while typing and reading 20 lines per minute, mmkay. I'm kind of focusing on the minimap and stuff.
Of course pintje can't let up. I'm a noob, he's a fuxpro, he needs to get this point through. HE CONTINUES. The two final straws were when Sent pushed up middle, broke the tower and wrapped around the tree to try to gank someone, whom I forget. I ran out and hit Testie, got the guy away. Testie turns around to hit me, but he had Tinker help, so I run. Nukes me down to 100 health, and Testie *chases me into our base, past the tower, into the double towers.* Balanar cannot tank that lightly, and he ends up at 1/3 health. pintje is too busy still berating my item build choice, however, and runs straight past, at full health, ignoring Testie and everything. I still got away, but so did Testie. But pintje never noticed, he was typing.
Then about two minutes later I go into the forest to try to defend top, ran into Testie, smacked him (couldn't really run away cuz of the slow), and then unfortunately Abaddon came to help. Which I kinda knew would happen but I also figured there's no way I can run away anyways. During this whole time though, pintje's typing about how I suck and how I'm useless and everything.
"See, you're useless"
So I ragequit.
Look, I know I get defensive about criticism during games, just as I have a tendency to shout in frustration during games. Games like DotA require way too much concentration, at least for me, for me to multitask a conversation and still play at any sort of decent level. But giving me a fucking lecture about one item for 30 minutes, then nitpicking every single move I make for the next 5 is just retarded, mmkay? I don't think I've ever NOT take sound advice unless I completely disagreed with it, and if I disagreed with it I've got plenty of reasons as to why, and you'll definitely hear why I disagree. But this was just retarded. I agreed, I said I was too nubby to pull something off, and I still get bitched at and nitpicked. What the fuck ever.
I still don't know why you get Blink on Ursa. This was never explained, or at least was explained while I was actually paying attention to the game we were supposed to be playing. If anyone would like to clarify that, incidentally, I'd be happy to hear. Because I sure as hell never heard anyone tell me to get Blink on Mangix, and they both seem like the exact same kind of hero. And I've certainly never seen (to the best of my knowledge) an Ursa with Blink.
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Northern Ireland1200 Posts
Blink is very useful on Ursa because of his rage spell thing. The one that makes him attack at like 400% speed for 5 hits (not sure on exact figures). The idea is, you cast this rage, then blink in from behind trees and u screw your enemy up before he even realises you are there. Blink is also very useful for escaping, because ursa has no real stun, only a slow. All in all, blink is a valuable item for Ursa.
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On January 27 2008 21:03 Chewits wrote:The idea is, you cast this rage, then blink in from behind trees and u screw your enemy up before he even realises you are there.
Oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooh.
I get it.
Gracias :O
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ursa basics -- str/hp items > agi items, preferably target int/agi heroes
vanguard is good
mass bracers are good too
and any team with ursa will take down rosh extremely fast
it's true you won't instantly figure out the effective item builds on heroes or how to use them without much experience, but there comes a point where a lot of things just seem to click ... just wait for it and don't ragequit
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United States7166 Posts
mb South didn't realize how pissed you were.. I was only trying to give what little insight I had, which was that it seems most players who went quick vlad's got it to be able to solo Roshan at 9.. but it certainly isn't a useless item.. any item with +15% dmg aura, +16% lifesteal aura (melee), +5 armor aura, +.80 brilliance is not useless, and its the only way he can get any lifesteal which can be useful for him especially lategame and when he has tons of hp.
edit: I just learned lifesteal works with Fury Swipes, meaning as he attacks a target he'll gain more and more lifesteal (along with dmg) with each hit (apparently +3.84~ lifesteal per attack). couple that with Overpower and Enrage he can steal a lot of life really fast. That's pretty awesome. So apparently, it owns. Though, I'm not sure I'd want to get it before dagger or not still. Also a nice addition to ursa is leoric's lifesteal aura which stacks with vlad's, that would be some crazy lifesteal.
anyways pintje acts like a total a-hole whenever he's in a losing game.. I've never seen anyone bitch so much..for so long (he sometimes never stops until the game ends). I really think we shouldn't tolerate that shit and warn him not to do it or he'll be banned. Obviously it's something he can control and for our friendly inhouse games we shouldn't have to listen to him talk shit. If he's got to do it, he should do it after not while we're still trying to play. I recommend people just -hhn, then /squelch pintje in-game once he starts shit
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so why is vlad bad on ursa? its an easy investment that pays off in a free aegis (can easily turn the game around at lvl 20ish), easy farming to dagger, probably helps someone else on your team, and its dirt cheap (practically pays for itself with that ~700 gold u get from rosh)
edit: o-o; was writing before raist posted
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blink on ursa? how could u possibly not see how that makes perfect sense
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On January 28 2008 02:30 zizou21 wrote:
blink on ursa? how could u possibly not see how that makes perfect sense
oh please, as if you've seen every possible combo of skills+items on your first few times playing a hero
manner up
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blink is useful on pretty much any hero
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Heart or BKB > Vlads on Ursa. Euls/Diffusal fucks over Ursa too much for you to be digging for Vlads that early, even though Purge goes through everything.
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On January 27 2008 20:33 Southlight wrote:
Why I raged last night.
We played -ar, which is like, okay, I'm not going to staunchly oppose it, but there's like an 80% chance that I land a hero that I'm not comfortable with, and without a decent lineup elsewhere it's going to be a rough ride. And heen landing PA while Testie got NS did turn it into a rough start. I got Ursa, which would be the second time I'd played it, although maybe the... 15th or so time I've seen it played. Probably 10 times watching my friend (who's better than me), the rest seeing it in our IH games, mostly by Cats I think. I'm not counting every time a crappy pub takes it, because I don't bother trying to learn anything from them. This knowledge of Ursa is combined with a rather firm recollection of a discussion Testie and maybe adfa had about killing Roshan "as soon as I'm done with Vlad" which implied to me that this was a somewhat standard item build. I'd also seen quite a few Ursa jungle from the start, which I'm not comfortable doing but I try anyways, especially on Scourge side (as I usually find myself on Sent side). Particularly with a hero I'm not comfortable with, it's tough finding even ground on items to start off jungling with... I remember a couple weeks ago I landed N'aix and tried (not supposed to apparently) jungling from level 1, had to get a bottle, tangos, shield, everything, I was a complete mess, but I still managed to right the ship around half-way through and it was okay.
Anyways, aside from an extra Shield, I was doing somewhat okay. 1-4 or 0-4, I don't remember, before I just started raging in team chat. Basically, pintje told me Vlad sucks on Ursa. Okay, that's fine, I'll keep that in mind if I ever play this guy again, and I'll try to figure out another build, because thus far I've always seen Vanguard + Vlad into Heart-spam... I went Van-Vlad the other time I played Ursa, in an in-house, and the only comment I got was that I shoulda massed hearts instead of making a Butterfly. And given my prior experience on seeing this character, I don't *know* another build. By the time I heard it, I had Vanguard + Vlad + Tread, which is a sizeable time + gold investment at the point in the game (25 mins into the game I would guess).
He "offers" the suggestion of getting Blink + BoT. Okay, that's fine too, I'll keep it in mind. But right now, farming 2150 gold for the Dagger, which would leave me with *no health*, nor do I know how to use it with Ursa, given my lack of experience with and distaste for "fat melee heroes with no stun," so it wouldn't be very effective anyways. I said as much. I said, "okay, but I'll suck with blink so I won't get it this game." I didn't bother with the BoT, because I'd already gotten Treads, and I felt the lack of natural ASPD other than the Treads wasn't worth just selling it, buying a Boot, and spending more time farming up BoT (what does Treads sell for, 1000? so I'd still need to farm 1700, except if I sell it, I wouldn't have the attack speed = slower, so I'll keep it and if I end up needing the BoT I'll buy it later, is what I thought).
That should have been the end of conversation.
Of course he launches into this tirade about how I suck, how I'm taking builds from dota-allstars guides (I believe my friend mentioned guides said Vlad sucks, so I don't think that even applies), etc. Alright, what the fuck ever kid, I've already got the items unless I have an IRL human version of Weaver's ultimate or something there's nothing I can do, okay?
Anyways, Zelniq joins the conversation saying Vlad sucks and how Ursa isn't a Roshan-killer and stuff.
My response? I don't care. *THIS CONVERSATION SHOULD BE DONE ALREADY* what the fuck do people want me to do? So I say as much. I don't care. I've already heard Vlad sucks on Ursa during that game 50 times, I don't need people keep spamming it while I'm trying to play. I can't play DotA while typing and reading 20 lines per minute, mmkay. I'm kind of focusing on the minimap and stuff.
Of course pintje can't let up. I'm a noob, he's a fuxpro, he needs to get this point through. HE CONTINUES. The two final straws were when Sent pushed up middle, broke the tower and wrapped around the tree to try to gank someone, whom I forget. I ran out and hit Testie, got the guy away. Testie turns around to hit me, but he had Tinker help, so I run. Nukes me down to 100 health, and Testie *chases me into our base, past the tower, into the double towers.* Balanar cannot tank that lightly, and he ends up at 1/3 health. pintje is too busy still berating my item build choice, however, and runs straight past, at full health, ignoring Testie and everything. I still got away, but so did Testie. But pintje never noticed, he was typing.
Then about two minutes later I go into the forest to try to defend top, ran into Testie, smacked him (couldn't really run away cuz of the slow), and then unfortunately Abaddon came to help. Which I kinda knew would happen but I also figured there's no way I can run away anyways. During this whole time though, pintje's typing about how I suck and how I'm useless and everything.
"See, you're useless"
So I ragequit.
Look, I know I get defensive about criticism during games, just as I have a tendency to shout in frustration during games. Games like DotA require way too much concentration, at least for me, for me to multitask a conversation and still play at any sort of decent level. But giving me a fucking lecture about one item for 30 minutes, then nitpicking every single move I make for the next 5 is just retarded, mmkay? I don't think I've ever NOT take sound advice unless I completely disagreed with it, and if I disagreed with it I've got plenty of reasons as to why, and you'll definitely hear why I disagree. But this was just retarded. I agreed, I said I was too nubby to pull something off, and I still get bitched at and nitpicked. What the fuck ever.
I still don't know why you get Blink on Ursa. This was never explained, or at least was explained while I was actually paying attention to the game we were supposed to be playing. If anyone would like to clarify that, incidentally, I'd be happy to hear. Because I sure as hell never heard anyone tell me to get Blink on Mangix, and they both seem like the exact same kind of hero. And I've certainly never seen (to the best of my knowledge) an Ursa with Blink.
There will always be at least one idiot in your game.
Whether it's a QoP who thinks he can two shot the mid solo who's hugging his tower, and then can't figure out why he dies, or the BM who insists on jungling the first 45 minutes of the game only to be underleveled (true story), there's always one idiot who knows your hero better than you, thinks you suck, etc.
You get a dagger because of two reasons: (1) blinking on top of someone makes it easier to stun them, and (2) one of your abilities increases your attack speed a lot, so you use it, blink in, get your five hits in, then pop it again, and voila; now you've done 1500 damage to one guy in about five seconds.
You usually see a Lothar's on Ursa, but Lothar's is fucking terrible. The stats it gives are pretty bad for what you pay, and as awesome as the active is, it's directly countered by a 200 gold ward.
A dagger has many more uses, costs less gold, costs less mana to use, and is just better all around.
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hehe, if you guys care that much, i wont bitch anymore, but cmon, its dota, its all about bitching at each other.
For closing, i really would like to give my take on this, cuz southlights post is kind of one sided. You might get pissed off by people bitching at you, but ever thought that people might get pissed off by your attitude? Really, i just suggested you would get blink/bot and started ganking a bit, so you could atleast be a little bit usefull that game, because really, ursa does not need items (except blink and some bracers) to get kills, and staying in the jungle without blink wouldve just lead to more feeding.
Instead of asking smth like, "why blink?" "why is vlads a waste of money?" you started immediattely with making excuses for your 0-4 and poor item choice instead of listening and trying to improve with ursa.
I dont get pissed off at all when someone bitches at me in DOTA, but what really pisses me off is that attitude of making very unlikely excuses for everything that goes wrong ingame when someone is feeding.
I mean, I want to win, and having someone in the game who is not only feeding, but also making non-excuses for it is just so aggravating. Ok, you are 0-4 with a hero you've never played, who cares, the game wasnt over at all, what i would do then, is listen to people who do play that hero and try to follow their advice, and try your best to atleast contribute a little bit to winning the game. I wouldnt spend my time arguing with people who know more about the hero then you, about the exact reasons why you are 0-4. You making excuses for feeding (while the only possible excuse is that you're not playing well) made me pissed off which transformed the advice of getting blink into me bitching at you.
Same thing with zelniq, he kept on farming when it was soooooooooo obvious that we needed to push mid before PL got farmed. I tried to get that push organised for 10 minutes, but he kept on going away to farm and feed PL. For example, I wrote 10 times in chat that PL had haste, with a ping on vysage who was farming sentinel jungle, and he still didnt retreat, and zelniq then started saying that I never wrote anything in chat or never pinged, which really pissed me off even more, so i start bitching :-).
I know you wont agree with this, but this is the way i think, same way you guys think that bitching shouldnt be done, which i dont agree with, i like bitching and i dont care if people bitch at me when i'm sucking.
What I am trying to explain is that you can use the argument in two directions, in my book, excuses like 'no, you didnt ping, no you didnt write in chat' when im 100% sure that I did, or leaving in the middle of a game is really kind of the shittiest thing you can do in dota, and it really gets me pissed off, but on the other hand, i guess for you guys bitching is the shittiest thing you can do and it really gets you pissed off.
I wont bitch anymore, for me this is behind me (well, it was the moment the game ended actually, i didnt realise you guys actually care about what gets said in a dota game :-) )
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Bitching gets annoying, and the people who do it shouldn't fight back or bitch more when they are called out on it.
They should simply apologize, and move on.
NOW SHUT THE FUCK UP AND LET'S PLAY
ASDF
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how hard is this game to learn? i'm bored and want to play something... no one is on team fortress 2 T_T;;
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learning curve is very steep but the game is very good so i guess its worth the effort
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fair enough
add me all !!
[US] Devaztayta [noob]
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Anyways, thanks for the blink on Ursa explanation. Ursa felt like an agi version of Brewmaster (with the damage boost, albeit in different form, + the lack of a stun, instead having that crappy PBAoE slow) so I figured, okay, I'm a big fookin tank. Didn't really look at the ASPD skill as a nifty ganking skill. I know Blink is almost always useful, but I tend to look at it more as an escape or an initiator, and Ursa didn't feel like one (lack of stun), but I guess I was flat wrong on the second (and I didn't feel like 2150 was worth Ursa gaining an escape mechanism when he felt like a tank... if I get ganked, fuck me and hope the scroll works).
Also, I agree with the "you didn't ping" and stuff, which is why if I die to a gank I always hit F12 and check chat to see if I was the one that screwed up first (if someone pinged and I didn't see it, well, I tend to say something like 'oh fuck me then.') I also rarely blame anyone else for a death, because it's usually my fault. But from my perspective I'd already acknowledged you were probably right about the items. What more can you possibly want, jeez. (except for me making it more clear next time when I've already got the point)
Also, I made no excuses for feeding except snapping back at Zelniq that I had the same number of deaths as heen. I also didn't really feel like I was feeding, because before the last death that I raged on (making it 5), I only had one death that was a clear "mistake" of sorts (that was when NS was called missing at bot, and when I ran out of the jungle I ran smack into him)... the others, as far as I could tell, was me taking the death for someone else. Maybe it didn't look that way to other people, and maybe taking the death wasn't a good idea anyways. I did it to Zelniq once or twice, even. Once when he was getting chased, I came in and hooked NS's attention to me. Other time was when SK was about to stun him, I got stunned+epi instead. But with my limited amount of attention to chat, I don't really remember any bitching about my deathcount or whatnot anyways. Also, I was hell-bent on winning that game (I always am, I don't exactly play the game to lose... that's WHY people keep saying I'm always so negative blah blah blah :p), and the best way to do that, IMO, was to use an item build I was comfortable with and I'd seen work. I'm sure Blink works, and I'll try to try it out if I ever land him again, but I've gotten 0-9 with a Blink Centaur the first time I tried it. *THAT IS DISASTROUS.* The next time I got Centaur I said fuck it all and farmed up mass health and simply chewed through them (pubbies) like a good, simple tank. It's a dumber way of playing, but I felt it was a somewhat effective way of making my hero matter, rather than uber failing at using blink as an initiator and mass feeding. I mean, personally that game felt like we were stalling for heen. If I read it wrong, sorry, oh well. I wanted to stack health so we could defend better (as is I was doing a decent job offsetting NS in a team fight), and eventually heen farms up and we wins. Was the way I saw it, anyways *shrugs*
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well i'm always open to other opinions
It's 4(sent) vs 5(scourge), 7 minutes in. Lineup: drow/ck/es/razor vs potm/dusa/chen/magi/void
3;1 for sent due to void dying twice and dusa dying once.
average level is ~5
is this game over?
here's my argument for why it's not:
synergy: void ult with 3 range support versus uhm.. glass cannons?
disables: 2 guaranteed stuns plus 3 potential aoe ones (chen) versus 1 + 1 aoe stuns not counting item based (probably at least one guinsoo guaranteed for scourge, and probably 0 for sent)
time: it's like 7 minutes in. you can't be serious.
p.s. don't offer to buy chickens, as it's apparently a bannable offense.
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On January 28 2008 05:49 JeeJee wrote:p.s. don't offer to buy chickens, as it's apparently a bannable offense.
O_O!
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is awesome32277 Posts
Blinking on most heroes is also about finding a escape mechanism. If you don't get a dagger you are dropping your survival abilities way too much. Some heroes already have ways of escaping, blink, invis, or seven stun if theres only 1 or 2 people following.
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EPT
