With few exceptions, QOP solo won't need more than 4 tangoes: blink can avoid lots of damage, and QOP has decent range; there's no reason to get hit unless the other guy's getting hit more. Which either means more money from a kill, or free farming while the guy heals up.
Decent last hits will generate the +1400-ish gold you need for perseverance (depending on whether you randomed, picked, got chicken, etc) by level ~7. Yes, this is assuming you don't die and don't get denied very much. It could be much slower if either of those happen.
If you're depending on runes, you've got wards up, so even if the other team has wards up, you're not likely to die while you're going for a rune. What's possible is that you're going to be chased a bit, and possibly in the wrong direction, which means you're gonna lose a heck of a lot more time before you get back to your lane. Just not dying isn't enough. And at that kind of level, 10+ second delay on your blink can kill you if people are chasing without a tower around.
A bottle does give damn good HP regen, and decent MP regen. Early game, it is definitely as good as or better than perseverance in terms of regen power. I'm not disputing that.
Why I think perseverance is marginally better is that it doesn't need you to move from your lane to work, which means that much more pressure on lane opponents and experience for you. The added damage is a slight bonus.
Drowsy: It will still take time to go get the rune and come back to your lane.
Bottle relay is good, but more expensive, and effectiveness actually declines as the game progresses (as opposed to most other regen items). I really don't know if it's worth the extra cost in competitive games.
- bottle rallying is for faggots. I think they'll fix this in the next version, it's just too gay. - bottle on QoP is good regardless of solo/lane - you do need tangos on QoP. You are theorycrafting. Try coming to lane with less than 4 tangos and I'll rape you, and you won't get last hits either. It's bad practice to do item builds assuming you're against someone horrible. - I go linkens --> necronomicon (RoH last on linken's since bottle gives you enough hp regen) - skadi sucks
We're all theorycrafting here. Who's pretending to actually be playing on a fucking forum? And if you're enough of a faggot to say it's possible to talk about the game without theorycrafting, then who decides what constitutes theorycrafting and what is valid reasoning? You? Fuck you, NO YOU.
Note that I made space for exceptions. Solo lich or viper opponent, or gankish combo (think cm/lina or similar) would probably warrant more regen than 4 tangoes.
And no, I'm not assuming that the lane opponent is going to be horrible. The scope of my argument is for competitive games, and there is the assumption that you're going to react to what the opponent is doing, instead of blindly following an item or skill build.
The difference between you and me is that I talk from experience whereas you theorycraft before the game try it against noobs and if it works, you think that proves your theory.
Like how you are so persistent that boots first razor is good.
We now diverge from the previous discussion, which was off-topic anyhow, but here goes:
Point: Heen says I play more dota than he does. However, I speak before playing and validate my theories with noob opponents, whereas Heen... doesn't.
I don't know, maybe you've been ninja'ing me and playing against good teams that I don't know about, but I can recognize when a shitty strategy works purely because the opponent is retarded, and I attribute it as such.
No, I do not claim that boot first razor is a competitive build. But it works okay in pubby games, kind of like bottle lion. Well, not as well as bottle lion. But it's the same idea; it works well enough in cases that I choose it.
I never need tangos as QoP, and if I do I get them by chicken. Sure, I don't play your fancy clan wars, or "good" players. But it works... Now, if I were laning Heen, i'd probably buy 24 tangos (asking allies to pool me, they'd understand and comply) and show Heen what's up with his measly unpooled 4 tango self. Oddly enough despite supposedly having complete lane control, I would still be a level behind... wtf?
I was sort of in a hurry to go out to get my food so my last post may seem a little confusing.
My point is that you do RETARDED builds because it's 'good' enough or because it's worked before as opposed to trying to improve upon your build based on your prior experiences to come up with the best. Also you seem to not put enough thought into your builds. It's like, you know how to farm and by the time you get enough money you're lost. Sort of how you went BoT before blink dagger on magnus the other day (!)
How many times do I have to try to convince you that going to a lane without regen because you have 600 range is stupid. You're going to need it. Period. The best example of this is when you go chicken --> straight to bottle build. It's a shitty build. Please stop doing it or make changes so you buy tangos before the bottle.
And of course I've played against 'good' opponents. Well, by your standards no one is ever good which I find ironic given how many times you fuck up and always have some lame excuse while yelling FAIL at everyone else who makes a mistake.
Don't worry, I'll make sure my 1337th post is worth it.
PS. Testie stop exaggerating my laning skills
PSS (for bottle). Man, I am getting sick of Nam doing the same build everytime on every fucking hero. 2 Bracers (100% predictable), Perseverance, BoT --> diverge into gayness, ON MY COMPUTER
One person I taught DotA incorrectly because I didn't want to give him item builds every time he got a different hero. Well, I shouldn't blame myself for it. It's his damn fault for not wanting to be better.
Well, considering that I've probably played in most (as in more than half) of the games you have, I've probably ended up playing some decent players, too. And I have experience using strategies that work, and not because the opponents are overtly stupid. I think it's unfair to say then that I'm "theorycrafting."
I did no-tango to bottle build for like, one day. Admittedly, that was about 10 games, but the vast majority of the time I get at least 2 tangoes, and more by chicken if necessary. I seriously can't remember a recent game when I went chicken -> bottle without tangoes. Maybe bottle without chicken with a random hero, sure.
And it's possible for me to say "that was stupid" or "that was definitely a mistake" about something I think a gosu player did, or even yell "FAIL" (hey, it's funny) without actually thinking "that guy must be a noob because he made a mistake." I say it when I do stupid shit, too. But then again, I'm not a good player so that wouldn't be a real counterexample, eh.
Do I have to point out the times that I did good against you because of "gay" stuff I did? Admittedly not that frequent, but not illegal or bug abuse. Hey, now that I think about it, everything I do is either "stupid" or "gay," which means it will not work competitively, or it will. But then again, somethings are both "stupid" and "gay," which breaks the dichotomy.
And Nam's still better than Chin. I don't think Chin will ever get better, despite trying and wanting to, which makes it all the worse. But then again, I don't think it's fair to compare anything to Chin.
EPT
