EPT[HoN/DotA] Let's Play~!! - Page 195
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
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Live2Win
United States6657 Posts
Over the games I've become more self-oriented, something that L pointed out above. | ||
IntoTheWow
is awesome32277 Posts
I think I have not played a carrie in in houses in a long time? mainly gankers/support. edit: but i don't play a lot nowadays... | ||
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Ack1027
United States7873 Posts
On September 26 2008 13:59 zulu_nation8 wrote: ack can you hook me up with some good games I wanna see how I do If you got a team of 5 sure, otherwise it might be more difficult. I lost contact with a lot of the other teams captains/players I used to talk to. Another way to get a good game: http://z13.invisionfree.com/IHL_Euro/index.php?showforum=111 Basic test game for IHCS. They usually have them every week I think now. Before it was a lot less scarce [ i.e harder to get into shit ] It will range though. But the ihcs vouchers will ' grade ' your play if you will. For example, waaaaay back in my test game [ which I played pugna support ] even though my team lost me and one other kid got vouched out of 10 players. IHCS Vouchers aren't stupid and are very competent imo, well they were when I was let in. Even though I lost my test game they knew it was cuz of heroes and other factors they really focus on individual play and impact. Edit: As you know any kind of higher level play of atmosphere kinda takes some work to get into unfortunately. For example you had to ladder and get more points [ I guess points ] to get into higher chinese ladder rooms. Its the same with NA/Euro dota. To get into good games you gotta either work to get into higher league games or make impressions on other teams players during matches. The people I could probably hook you up with a game with [with 5] *USED* to be around x6's level just to give you a comparison. | ||
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
and live2win, its pretty much attempt to gank and fail and die and then rage or don't bother even trying. | ||
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Alventenie
United States2147 Posts
On September 26 2008 13:54 L wrote: Which support characters besides the sp/wl/abbadon/omni set of healers are shitty gankers(and even they can gank fairly well given good starting lanes, ie fucking supersonic euls omni + dps gank group, wl rock initiate)? Like, even aoecentric support heroes like THD/pit gank fine, and i'd be VERY hard pressed for someone to call pitlord a raw ganking hero. The issue is that support doesn't pay off post BKB/hood/heart/lothar in many cases because of the fact that we, as a group, gank poorly. Our map control in cws is hugely dependent on having superior lanes because we simply don't co-ordinate and we refuse to punish economic bait. How many games have we had had in which we've just failed spectacularly at ganking opponent carries with ridiculously gank/support oriented teams with a single carry? Plenty. Its why testie rages when we lose and he goes 22-3. Take today for example; we basically ignored cats farming as PA until level 17, and didn't try to gank him a single time despite having a team with 3 gankers, 1 carry and 1 support. Doesn't really mean anything, though when we're comparing the situation to the whole of TL, not just you. I personally trust that you won't bone up a gank, but there are plenty of players that i know who will ignore a gank and just keep farming, and you know that them too but there's going to be a polite lack of names named, and some others simply don't have the map awareness to respond to a fight because they're just plain learning the basics of the game. Ex: When parme goes crazy about people using mana to farm creeps, its because he expects a certain level of gank-ability out of certain heroes, and he just doesn't find it. In return, he gets killed often times when he shouldn't, which then instructs him to stop playing aggressively, and start farming. Since he's already farming, why not pick a hero that benefits from it more? Final question; How many of us regularly leave our lanes levels 3-5 to gank mid from the side lanes, or gank the opposite side? 0. psyyren used to do it regularly. you do it sparingly. I do it sparingly. sl does it sparingly. riki does it sparingly. And no, its not the ganker's fault if he goes in and the 2 people in the lane he's ganking just sit back and refuse to snare/stun, or go oom or get out of position after he's said he's coming in. That's poor play by the laning heroes, not the roaming ganker. There are PLENTY of examples of non-roaming heroes completely botching ganks, be it the classic unneeded decrepifies, the dps halting cog barriers, the misplaced allied hero dragging meat hook, etc. Many are just simple errors of ommision or errors of judgement. The support that we do regularly take are those that have push ending ults; mag, tree, (enigma not so much :o), levi, ES, or those that have fairly solid solo ganking power; WD, necrolyte, etc. We very rarely see heroes like shadow priest. People bitch when asked to play omni. We've had 1 avernus in the past... week. But warlock with his gank/push ending/powering rocks sees plenty of play. Its not even limited to support; the more independant your hero makes you, the more likely you are to use him which stems from the fact that typing is severely crippling towards hero control and that we don't use vent. So you used furion? Good job; you can tp anywhere without worrying that an ally will steal the lane before you get there, pick and choose the ganks you want to be in, farm multiple sources of creeps at the same time and largely use your ult for purely self driven profit concerns, even if you're pushing lanes that shouldn't be pushed. Compare that with CM or Ogre magi. That's why they aren't played. Edit; lol that's a lot of text to say we're fairly selfish players. I agree with alot of this post, but as you stated in one of your paragraphs, some people don't have the awareness to gauge which fights they win, and which fights they will lose. Parme may expect people in lanes to be ready to gank at a notice moments, but he himself sets himself up in alot of bad spots to gank, and sometimes waits too long for a gank to get set up losing exp and becoming under leveled. Ive had games where he is multiple levels lower than the average because he was attempting to gank people. There are times where you just have to go with the flow and not try to gank entire game. The farming part is something we've been over many times. Many people in TL say testie farms too much. At times he does, but what he does do better than anyone else that regularly plays, is that he farms much more efficiently than anyone else. He consistently gets 2-3 creeps per wave with an opposing hero in lane and all the creeps save a few every now and than when free farming. No one else in the game can even come remotely close to that save jf/heen/bdares and on occasion devaz/me/sj pull it off with certain heroes. The ganker when he roams is responsible for most of the gank. he came to gank, he needs to make sure that the lane knows he is coming/about to go, if they dont notice/get pinged/told, then sometimes even i miss it (it happens were human). Since we dont use vent its nice for people to just ping in advance. Ive had many missed kills because people dont just ping half second in advance and get my attention. I guess alot of players don't like support, but i think that is because they dont know how to play a support extremely well. I know how bad of a carry i can play at times, which is why i like supoprt better, I feel that i contribute more to the team as a support hero. I think people need to learn that not the entire game revolves around making their hero the best. Also, i randomed furion against na zeus pl dk cm, i didn't jungle because bly wanted me to lane with him as ES, but we laned vs na and had no mana whatso ever. So since i had lane abilities, i couldnt jungle til after level 8 or so because i spent my time porting to other lanes to gank. I warded the entire map even with a weaver on our team, got mek to port to heal low hp people so zeus couldnt ult them as they ran to town, bought tons of wards and at the end of the game still managed to get book 3 just for anti invis. Nothing about my items was for me to kill heroes, pure support. I ended up going 6-4-22 i think. Just sucks i didn't save the replay =(. overall, alot of our players are self dependent, and lack alot of skills needed to play at the levels we all "want" to play at. In the end though it is still just a game, and most of us take it way to seriously at times =P (myself included, i got really mad the other day at something). ps. testie's meepo better play better than what it did today! | ||
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hasuwar
7365 Posts
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paper
13196 Posts
On September 26 2008 16:13 hasuwar wrote: I'm sorry, but if you're trying to clan war without vent or expect immaculate coop between playeres, you're just stupid :[ l2vent imo what i've been saying yo | ||
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Wysp
Canada2299 Posts
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Butigroove
Seychelles2061 Posts
I have played 8 or 9 games. I was appalled at how bad the level of play was. I usually host, (as in I have played less than 10 games ever when I am not in a year of playing dota off and on) so i deal with delay very very badly. Also there are no hosters anywhere near me (Hawaii) so the delay is only payable if its a west coast host with a good connection. But I still managed to go beyond godlike in almost every game. That is not bragging, the players were just fucking horrible. Worse than BAD bnet em pubs. I try to organize, and help players. My personal favorite is when I call a gank on a sidelane, and the heroes in the lane charge the hero being ganked, and push him back before I am even at the rune. Seemed to happen every single time, so I started telling my teamates 'DONT PUSH HIM BACK.' Sadly, it still happened often. I read earlier that TL doesn't have any good west coast hosts, is this true? That would be depressing, because I don't think I can deal with any more delay than that. | ||
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paper
13196 Posts
which is why i basically stopped playing with them | ||
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
On September 26 2008 12:13 Folca wrote: Does anyone play dragon knight? i need some tips, Hes so kick ass though Try to get into a lane with a ranged hero, max out dragon blood, only get one level of dragon tail, then breath fire, ult, etc. I guess you can get a midas if you farm well. But don't get a midas if it's past say 20min into the game. I see people doing this in TL games, if you get a Midas at 20min then you'll be equipment less for midgame and you won't have net positive income until like 40min into the game. I never get midas past 10min, sometimes when other people are using chicken and despite having 2000 I'll go something else, of course it also depends on game dynamic. Otherwise go treads first, then BKB S&Y or S&Y BKB, then there are several options. Hyperstone and cuirass for more dps or hotd satanic for tank but they're both similar, or you can go pure damage like mkb/buriza if your team has tank, all three are fine. Make sure you level up fast. When you're 16, tell your team to push. Your ice attack is 100% i forgot the english word for this but it attacks everything. You're movement speed is ridiculous, you have a shitload of HP, you can rape all their heroes or kill towers in like 10seconds. Rax a lane, kill shit, roshan, buy items, repeat, win. | ||
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
For dps heroes who have large output but are weak as hell/easy targets, you need a bkb to guanrantee you 10 seconds of output time in battles to deal damage or else you will never get the opportunity to do so. Heroes like void and TB don't need bkbs because their skills buy them time to do damage. However Luna is super weak, only 450 range, she will always be the target for any stun/disables in battles. Even if she has a divine rapier she can die in 2 secs without the chance to do any damage. Plus, Luna's skill gives her damage, early game with treads and hotd she's already pretty dps without butterfly, BKB adds strength, gives her chance to pull off ult, and you'll need it eventually. I'd suggest always going bkb on Luna first unless the opposing team really has zero slow/disables but that pretty much never happens so, always go BKB on Luna first. | ||
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paper
13196 Posts
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Ack1027
United States7873 Posts
I hear myself when I read bly's advice. GGC exp bug here gg. Edit: On September 26 2008 16:58 Butigroove wrote: I started playing on GGC this week again. I have played 8 or 9 games. I was appalled at how bad the level of play was. I usually host, (as in I have played less than 10 games ever when I am not in a year of playing dota off and on) so i deal with delay very very badly. Also there are no hosters anywhere near me (Hawaii) so the delay is only payable if its a west coast host with a good connection. But I still managed to go beyond godlike in almost every game. That is not bragging, the players were just fucking horrible. Worse than BAD bnet em pubs. I try to organize, and help players. My personal favorite is when I call a gank on a sidelane, and the heroes in the lane charge the hero being ganked, and push him back before I am even at the rune. Seemed to happen every single time, so I started telling my teamates 'DONT PUSH HIM BACK.' Sadly, it still happened often. Yeah ggc pubs are ridiculously bad. Worse than sc east bnet if you can draw that comparison. I'm sure someone here would've warned you if you had asked =p. Lesson: Stay away from ggc pubs unless absolutely bored out of your mind. Also the word you're looking for was ' splash ' to describe dk's lvl 16 dragon form attack bly. | ||
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DevAzTaYtA
Oman2005 Posts
 ) doesn't come till monday. good luck vs heen's team all... let us know if ravage manages to find a way to stream that shit. | ||
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Chewits
Northern Ireland1200 Posts
Once DK has Power Treads, S+Y and a hyperstone, he is seriously strong at lvl 16. His ulti CD quite short, so use it to push creep lanes and farm woods etc. It also has seriously low mana cost (it really needs nerfed) so spam it alot. At lvl 16 he has huge splash damage and cold attack that does serious slowing. So with hyper strong you increase your attack speed, helping your main to proc aswell. If you manage to get these items, i guarantee you, you will rape hard. Remember, DK does not do alot of dmg early on lvls, so play cautiously, hes like a late agi hero carry. Have fun! Edit: wtf, musta missed a page. this was in response to the DK question | ||
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BottleAbuser
Korea (South)1888 Posts
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Chewits
Northern Ireland1200 Posts
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
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