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Flagellation is obviously better in the lane phase though.
Krakens' is always going to be better early as its a flat number opposed to Glad's scaling true damage which of course becomes king lategame?
Unrelated but awesome is Electrician. Really love playing solomid electrician in pubs. He actually does pretty good damage with builds where you skip grip until later and he can become unkillable with his shield. Hero of the month for me.
Skillbuild is max out 3rd skill, get second skill to 2 or 3 depending on how the games going, then ulti-1 point in grip, max out shield etc. Items is Red Boots, Vanguard, finish Phase, Shamans and then Sheepstick/Frostfield/Heart/Mock depending on the game.
Is there a reason we don't see much Electrician in the pro scene?
Also S2 managed to break Hellbourne mid.
+ Show Spoiler +
Infinite health and mana pots. Legion can't do the same. gg.
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You could always shop like that. Only beneficial if you buy an axe though.
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On October 01 2011 04:15 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2011 03:59 Sm3agol wrote:On October 01 2011 03:46 Risen wrote:On October 01 2011 03:13 TurpinOS wrote:On October 01 2011 02:37 Sm3agol wrote:On September 30 2011 23:49 Ethenielle wrote:A couple of pages before Smeagol tells us Magebane isn't really a hard carry because he scales so badly.And now you just had to share your thoughts on the balance of the game with us. Hammerstorm? Overpowered? Scout? Swiftblade? I mean I know you are not a very good player and that is okay, but maybe keep this in mind yourself and refrain from commenting on balance?  I don't think I said he wasn't a hard carry, or didn't mean that, more that he doesn't scale well into super late-game. I've carried with him in quite a few games, and if you get a couple level lead and some items, he'll own face for a long time. Pair him up vs a late game hero like SW/zephyr/sb, etc, and he just doesn't have the capability to take any of them on 1 v 1 without help. And I don't see where my level has anything to do with posting. Is there a minimum MMR rating you have to achieve before you can offer your opinion on balance? I know at my level of play, carry SB, scout, and Hammer are really common already, and quite annoying to deal with pre-patch. So I post about it, because I feel they'll be even harder to deal with now. You sit on your high horse playing over 9000 MMR games where carry hammer is terrible, and I'll sit on mine. What ^^ Zephyr and SW are both extremely terrible late game 1v1 carries. Zephyr is a strong carry due to his farming and AoE abilities, meaning he can get items fast and deals a lot of damage to multiple heroes. Same thing with SW, its his ability to deal damage to everyone and tank/transfer back a lot of damage that makes him a strong carry. They are both extremely bad at 1v1 late game, and any magebane with the same farm would win this, no questions asked. You are correct though, that magebane doesnt have the best scaling abilities, What he has going for him is his lower attack speed. He obviously cant out 1v1 late game SB /tdl/scout though And seriously, who would level hammers AoE...its just a cool buff for the few that did. I know you're not talking about Sand Wraith, even though it REALLY SOUNDS LIKE you're talking about Sand Wraith. Because if you're talking about Sand Wraith...... wtf? What i was saying. I HATE late-game sand wraith, he is unkillable if he has good items. He's the only hero I know of that could literally afk chill in the middle of a team fight, randomly hit r in the middle of it, and destroy people. No, you have the right of it. I'm responding to TurpinOS. SW a horrible late game carry? What game is he playing?
Read terrible late-game 1v1 carry
+ Show Spoiler +important part bolded and underlined for you
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On October 01 2011 20:14 wonderwall wrote:Krakens' is always going to be better early as its a flat number opposed to Glad's scaling true damage which of course becomes king lategame? Unrelated but awesome is Electrician. Really love playing solomid electrician in pubs. He actually does pretty good damage with builds where you skip grip until later and he can become unkillable with his shield. Hero of the month for me. Skillbuild is max out 3rd skill, get second skill to 2 or 3 depending on how the games going, then ulti-1 point in grip, max out shield etc. Items is Red Boots, Vanguard, finish Phase, Shamans and then Sheepstick/Frostfield/Heart/Mock depending on the game. Is there a reason we don't see much Electrician in the pro scene? Also S2 managed to break Hellbourne mid. + Show Spoiler +Infinite health and mana pots. Legion can't do the same. gg.
Ez fix. Put 2,3 trees.
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On October 01 2011 18:30 Gummy wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2011 14:40 Torte de Lini wrote:On October 01 2011 12:57 Gummy wrote:On October 01 2011 12:42 Torte de Lini wrote:
Kraken is an easy hero! Play him.
Last hit creeps with your 3rd ability or harass with it. Gladiator's version is much better. Kraken is easier survivability Gladiator is 21+2.7/lv with 2.8 base armor (14% reduction). Kraken is 22 + 3/level with 2.2 base armor (11% reduction). In terms of in lane survivability, unless you're eating a lot of stuns, there's not that big of a difference. The key advantage for kraken in the laning phase is the tsunami. That shit is a great stun and a great escape mechanism. Arena is also an okay escape mechanism, and one point in it can save your ass in a 1v1 chase situation, and is not nearly as effective in a 2+ v1. In normal laning conditions, however, I would typically take gladiator over kraken by a hair. Kraken obviously has the more reliable ult, however, in the midgame. They're very different heroes later on, but in terms of melee heroes with lane presence these two are very similar. Flagellation is obviously better in the lane phase though.
It's more in relation to getting away: ez slow and ez charge
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On October 02 2011 03:48 Torte de Lini wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2011 18:30 Gummy wrote:On October 01 2011 14:40 Torte de Lini wrote:On October 01 2011 12:57 Gummy wrote:On October 01 2011 12:42 Torte de Lini wrote:
Kraken is an easy hero! Play him.
Last hit creeps with your 3rd ability or harass with it. Gladiator's version is much better. Kraken is easier survivability Gladiator is 21+2.7/lv with 2.8 base armor (14% reduction). Kraken is 22 + 3/level with 2.2 base armor (11% reduction). In terms of in lane survivability, unless you're eating a lot of stuns, there's not that big of a difference. The key advantage for kraken in the laning phase is the tsunami. That shit is a great stun and a great escape mechanism. Arena is also an okay escape mechanism, and one point in it can save your ass in a 1v1 chase situation, and is not nearly as effective in a 2+ v1. In normal laning conditions, however, I would typically take gladiator over kraken by a hair. Kraken obviously has the more reliable ult, however, in the midgame. They're very different heroes later on, but in terms of melee heroes with lane presence these two are very similar. Flagellation is obviously better in the lane phase though. It's more in relation to getting away: ez slow and ez charge
I say flagellation is better in lane phase because of its range. At level 2-3, you can actually harrass with it without taking any damage. Kraken's splash does a bit more raw damage early on, but the aoe is centered at the point of impact, and the aoe is much smaller. There is almost no way to get your aoe off on somebody who isn't dumb.
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hey dawg, no matter how smart you are i can waste my charge to get up to you and splash
now i'm out of mana and you're down like 150 life, WADDUP
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On October 02 2011 02:44 canikizu wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2011 20:14 wonderwall wrote:Flagellation is obviously better in the lane phase though. Krakens' is always going to be better early as its a flat number opposed to Glad's scaling true damage which of course becomes king lategame? Unrelated but awesome is Electrician. Really love playing solomid electrician in pubs. He actually does pretty good damage with builds where you skip grip until later and he can become unkillable with his shield. Hero of the month for me. Skillbuild is max out 3rd skill, get second skill to 2 or 3 depending on how the games going, then ulti-1 point in grip, max out shield etc. Items is Red Boots, Vanguard, finish Phase, Shamans and then Sheepstick/Frostfield/Heart/Mock depending on the game. Is there a reason we don't see much Electrician in the pro scene? Also S2 managed to break Hellbourne mid. + Show Spoiler +Infinite health and mana pots. Legion can't do the same. gg. Ez fix. Put 2,3 trees.
Nonsense, that would make sense. Dota communities doesn't like things that make sense and would rather ban things instead of realizing that if something's in the game and has been for years, then it's supposed to be there. The only solution here is to ban the use of the shop from the ground below and DQ any team that would do such a despicable tactic.
*grumble grumble*
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On October 02 2011 07:49 JeeJee wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2011 02:44 canikizu wrote:On October 01 2011 20:14 wonderwall wrote:Flagellation is obviously better in the lane phase though. Krakens' is always going to be better early as its a flat number opposed to Glad's scaling true damage which of course becomes king lategame? Unrelated but awesome is Electrician. Really love playing solomid electrician in pubs. He actually does pretty good damage with builds where you skip grip until later and he can become unkillable with his shield. Hero of the month for me. Skillbuild is max out 3rd skill, get second skill to 2 or 3 depending on how the games going, then ulti-1 point in grip, max out shield etc. Items is Red Boots, Vanguard, finish Phase, Shamans and then Sheepstick/Frostfield/Heart/Mock depending on the game. Is there a reason we don't see much Electrician in the pro scene? Also S2 managed to break Hellbourne mid. + Show Spoiler +Infinite health and mana pots. Legion can't do the same. gg. Ez fix. Put 2,3 trees. Nonsense, that would make sense. Dota communities doesn't like things that make sense and would rather ban things instead of realizing that if something's in the game and has been for years, then it's supposed to be there. The only solution here is to ban the use of the shop from the ground below and DQ any team that would do such a despicable tactic. *grumble grumble*
2 astrolabes = ban
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if something's in the game and has been for years, then it's supposed to be there
I'd disagree with that, there are some long standing "creative uses of game mechanics" which should be banned as they just make the game silly. Stuff like using Behemoth Fissure to pull creeps into the ancients basically breaks the game despite never being fixed iirc.
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On October 02 2011 09:50 wonderwall wrote:Show nested quote +if something's in the game and has been for years, then it's supposed to be there I'd disagree with that, there are some long standing "creative uses of game mechanics" which should be banned as they just make the game silly. Stuff like using Behemoth Fissure to pull creeps into the ancients basically breaks the game despite never being fixed iirc.
Well, it's not pulling to the ancients that's really the problem there, it's more just using it to control top / bot lanes and take away the innate advantage given to each side for the lane at the very beginning and then throughout the game if the lane pushes up. Few things are more annoying than going bot as legion or top as hellbourne and finding your creeps almost under their tower vs a very aggressive lane like valk/behe or behe/pyro. That breaks the innate balance of laning, while shopping from the shop there doesn't really affect very many situations.
edit :
with that said, go crazy with it in pubs
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On October 02 2011 09:50 wonderwall wrote:Show nested quote +if something's in the game and has been for years, then it's supposed to be there I'd disagree with that, there are some long standing "creative uses of game mechanics" which should be banned as they just make the game silly. Stuff like using Behemoth Fissure to pull creeps into the ancients basically breaks the game despite never being fixed iirc.
No they shouldn't be banned. Nothing should be banned. You should either abuse the fuck out of it and win everything with it, hoping that the creators will fix it (otherwise they'll watch their game go down the shitter) .. or you deal with it.
Seriously, banning 'creative use of game mechanics' is the biggest crock of garbage ever. I still remember back in the day when Conquest was working on MC (a dungeon in WoW), and they came up with a strategy: Have person A, a stealth class, sneak up to a boss, reveal themselves so the boss chases them, and have a warlock teleport A back to the main raid. Now the boss would walk all the way to the main raid, saving a ton of time since they didn't have to fight all the way to the boss, making the encounter easier and faster.
Creative use of game mechanics? Fuck yeah, I thought that was brilliant. Obviously un-intended, and the solution should be to fix how aggro works on summoned targets. Not ban everyone involved and ignore the actual problem. Oh well.
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The end result is always that the broken mechanic should be fixed, yes. However what you're proposing is that everyone abuse the broken mechanic to the absolute maximum until it is fixed, instead of simply agreeing not to do that thing because it is broken.
In the context of Hon this would simply mean Earthshaker is permabanned until S2 fixes creep pathing due to blocks, which makes for a few months of pretty boring hon. Simply asking teams to agree not to do it makes much more sense.
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On October 02 2011 10:26 wonderwall wrote:
The end result is always that the broken mechanic should be fixed, yes. However what you're proposing is that everyone abuse the broken mechanic to the absolute maximum until it is fixed, instead of simply agreeing not to do that thing because it is broken.
In the context of Hon this would simply mean Earthshaker is permabanned until S2 fixes creep pathing due to blocks, which makes for a few months of pretty boring hon. Simply asking teams to agree not to do it makes much more sense.
if s2 cares, it won't take a few months. if they don't, fuck their game.
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On October 02 2011 10:16 JeeJee wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2011 09:50 wonderwall wrote:if something's in the game and has been for years, then it's supposed to be there I'd disagree with that, there are some long standing "creative uses of game mechanics" which should be banned as they just make the game silly. Stuff like using Behemoth Fissure to pull creeps into the ancients basically breaks the game despite never being fixed iirc. No they shouldn't be banned. Nothing should be banned. You should either abuse the fuck out of it and win everything with it, hoping that the creators will fix it (otherwise they'll watch their game go down the shitter) .. or you deal with it. Seriously, banning 'creative use of game mechanics' is the biggest crock of garbage ever. I still remember back in the day when Conquest was working on MC (a dungeon in WoW), and they came up with a strategy: Have person A, a stealth class, sneak up to a boss, reveal themselves so the boss chases them, and have a warlock teleport A back to the main raid. Now the boss would walk all the way to the main raid, saving a ton of time since they didn't have to fight all the way to the boss, making the encounter easier and faster. Creative use of game mechanics? Fuck yeah, I thought that was brilliant. Obviously un-intended, and the solution should be to fix how aggro works on summoned targets. Not ban everyone involved and ignore the actual problem. Oh well.
I agree that that is brilliant, but a WoW raid is a pve encounter based around a group of people cooperating in tandem. Abuse of game mechanics here penalizes no one and only rewards the players.
While dota/hon are pvp encounters. If blocking becomes commonplace in tournament all it really does is make behemoth/es a stronger pick than he is currently and alter the way he's going to be played some. The game was balanced with the idea that certain lanes would have advantages over other lanes (or disadvantages) and using fissure in this manner removes this. This does not necessarily alter balance tremendously, but it would take a large number of games to find out for sure and makes the game play in a way that's not intended. I would say not intended in a bad way while the other exploit is in a good way. That's certainly personal preference though.
Oh, and s2 doesn't patch stuff at all unless it's completely game breaking (puppet ulting dcing was patched that night... but armadon was bugged to do 2x damage for something like 2-3 months and it was over a month of complaints before they patched it).
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On October 02 2011 07:49 JeeJee wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2011 02:44 canikizu wrote:On October 01 2011 20:14 wonderwall wrote:Flagellation is obviously better in the lane phase though. Krakens' is always going to be better early as its a flat number opposed to Glad's scaling true damage which of course becomes king lategame? Unrelated but awesome is Electrician. Really love playing solomid electrician in pubs. He actually does pretty good damage with builds where you skip grip until later and he can become unkillable with his shield. Hero of the month for me. Skillbuild is max out 3rd skill, get second skill to 2 or 3 depending on how the games going, then ulti-1 point in grip, max out shield etc. Items is Red Boots, Vanguard, finish Phase, Shamans and then Sheepstick/Frostfield/Heart/Mock depending on the game. Is there a reason we don't see much Electrician in the pro scene? Also S2 managed to break Hellbourne mid. + Show Spoiler +Infinite health and mana pots. Legion can't do the same. gg. Ez fix. Put 2,3 trees. Nonsense, that would make sense. Dota communities doesn't like things that make sense and would rather ban things instead of realizing that if something's in the game and has been for years, then it's supposed to be there. The only solution here is to ban the use of the shop from the ground below and DQ any team that would do such a despicable tactic. *grumble grumble*
Inb4 at dreamhack both teams have to be legion.
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Fissure and Booboo pulling are banned at Dreamhack I believe.
1. It is not allowed to block creeps from reaching their destination (e.g. blocking base entrance) with the help of spells such as fissure.
Edit: It's just fissure, you can still pull with Booboo which should be banned too IMO as it does the same thing during laning phase.
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Just means lots of Wildsoul bans at Dreamhack.
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Wildsoul is usually banned anyway. Strong jungler, great pusher, carry potential.
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Jeejee what are your thoughts on banning things like allied spider mines and not hold lurker?
What about banning observer turret bug?
Do you think that if something is bugged and the game makers choose not to fix it that it should be allowed no matter what?
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/eZiyu.jpg)
