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On July 30 2011 01:35 5-s wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2011 01:29 Manit0u wrote:
I don't get you guys. HoN is superior to DotA in every possible way, including background and heroes (even ports make more sense in HoN since S2 adapted it nicely into the Newerth universe). If DotA 2 is going to be old DotA with pretty graphics it's not all that interesting. ... You're serious? I think we've answered 1000 times in this thread why some of us prefer Dota (actually, many of us). Posts like this one really makes me hate this combined thread sometimes.
Oh well. The last DotA I really enjoyed was around 5.84c, after that I think it started going downhill.
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I think people have already expressed why this new model is basically a huge slap in the face for most everyone, but I'll try to gather it into points:
1, Ok, so first you do a huge sale of $10 accounts, then suddenly HoN is free. Oh I get it, those are "legacy" accounts, so they didn't just squeeze out a little extra coin on the side...I'll get back to that shortly. This isn't a last-minute effort to rake some money in, not at all...I consider this poor business ethics, and that's putting it lightly.
2, Legacy accounts.Ok, so I now can still play everything for free, I still don't need to spend a dime at all. That's fair, F2P is okay if it works this way for the old customer...though I disagree with the idea that a segregated playerbase is able to function as a proper community, and won't become even more hate- and rage-fueled, but this is a tradeoff I'd take for the longevity of the game...
...except that when a new hero comes out, those who got coins through referrals / grind a lot / spend money can play it outright (if they own an older, legacy account like me) - and surprise, they can use it in MM games, too, and I'll be facing them without equal footing - just 'cause I won't spend a dime on microtransactions, ever. It's principle. This is the main reason I never tried LoL (obviously I didn't like what I heard / saw about it either, but this was the most major counter-argument for me), and this is why I'm most upset at the moment.
3, All pick. When a pub hits lvl 5 / spends some of his mommy's gold and I have the "fortune" to get them in my team (being 1750+ doesn't guarantee you don't get someone from under 1600, which is precisely where some of the luckier noobs will be). They will refuse to play their role / won't be able to pick a proper hero because their pool is limited. Yes, opposing team will have the same problem, but this just leads to retarded (read: resembling to LoL) matches, and I wan't no part of that.
Yes, AP is a shit mode to begin with, and one shouldn't play it if one wants to improve - but it has the shortest queue times still, and sadly there's a bigger chance you get a 200+ mmr difference in players on the same team if you only queue BP and BD. I definitely rather deal with that than F2P users, but this is another forced choice I do not like.
I reserve further judgement until I play for a few days and see how this works for myself, but if it's that bad as I imagine it is (as in I can't purchase "early access" heroes without grinding silver coins hardcore) then it's time to stop supporting this game.
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On July 30 2011 01:58 Manit0u wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2011 01:35 5-s wrote:On July 30 2011 01:29 Manit0u wrote:
I don't get you guys. HoN is superior to DotA in every possible way, including background and heroes (even ports make more sense in HoN since S2 adapted it nicely into the Newerth universe). If DotA 2 is going to be old DotA with pretty graphics it's not all that interesting. ... You're serious? I think we've answered 1000 times in this thread why some of us prefer Dota (actually, many of us). Posts like this one really makes me hate this combined thread sometimes. Oh well. The last DotA I really enjoyed was around 5.84c, after that I think it started going downhill.
sometimes TL dota plays old versions. they have aged horribly badly, 5.84c was filled with a ton of imba crap (and useless heroes) and the gameplay moves 5x slower because game flow was even slower then. if you play them again and enjoy them you're just wearing nostalgia goggles.
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I'm reading this while jungling with Lego.
Is it a good idea to rush Alch bones at the start of the game after my initial items?
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Err, how can you ask such horrible questions after playing so many games (with people who could teach you as I've seen) ?
Alch. bones got nerfed hardcore, and were only carry items to begin with (ok, sometimes on Silencer [Vindi] in DotA, but that's quite the exception).
Besides, what the hell do you need attackspeed for? I could provide the answer for this, but I want to you improve (and never ask questions like that again), so try to think and answer it yourself.
So no. Get a Lifetube*, boots, rush PK, finish HotBL, phase, then whatever the team needs. Frostfield plate for example is an overlooked option.
RoH = lifetube, old dota habits
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I've never jungled with Lego or got Alchem. bones. I thought it was an item to get if you were doing well in farm and making a lot of gold.
Even bubbles got it now.
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Randoming in AP does not give bonus gold.
WHY
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Someone has to tell me when this torte guy is joking or not I'm completely blind to his sarcasm
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I played DoTA for a long time, but only public games where no one warded or anything.
That's the extent of my knowledge, I know all the heros and such, but ideas such as Nerubian Assassin with Dagon was new to me (at the time it was pretty good, not sure if it is now or anything).
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On July 30 2011 01:58 Naib wrote:
3, All pick. When a pub hits lvl 5 / spends some of his mommy's gold and I have the "fortune" to get them in my team (being 1750+ doesn't guarantee you don't get someone from under 1600, which is precisely where some of the luckier noobs will be). They will refuse to play their role / won't be able to pick a proper hero because their pool is limited. Yes, opposing team will have the same problem, but this just leads to retarded (read: resembling to LoL) matches, and I wan't no part of that.
This is something I was thinking about. I'm curious as to how long it takes a totally new account (let's see a 1950 MMR player makes a basic account and does everything possible to efficiently move up the system) to get to 1850+ and be able to play all game modes etc?
He'll need to buy tons of passes/tokens/heros to even play in these modes, right? And he'll have to play X games to get to verified. So for my level of play (forgive the lack of humility here) this patch makes literally 0 difference besides perhaps taking away people I might play against in TMM because they're stomping the shit out of terrible players (for me, this isn't fun, but many people enjoy it).
I think this patch could potentially be good IF it brings TONS of players to HON AND it makes a difference for me. However at 1900+ it makes 0 difference and I think will make 0 difference for at least a period of a year so I don't know.
Also the 250 MMR allowed difference on a team matched by the MMR algorithm -- it might have been changed this patch, since it said something about some changes, but if it hasn't been then it's quite possible you'll still get the upper end of the super-still-basic-newbies who managed to win 5-6 in a row for whatever reason on your team EVEN AS AN 1850 or lower player.
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Ok, apparently I logged in and saw that you need to fork out gold coins to purchase early access heroes.
This is a sad, sad day.
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I believe non-legacy players will play AP most of the time, unless they have a really big amount of bought heroes. You could say this will make the change have a minimal affect on other modes, but an even greater amount of AP may make playing other modes harder, because even lower queues for that mode may make more people want to play it instead. It's hard to predict anything, but HoN really does not look like it was designed with that kind of segregation in mind, a lot of things look weird right now.
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btw guys Alienware signup thingy gives you 100gold coin if you havent done it already 
you're welcome!
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I can understand why S2 did this. To be honest, this method is likely the best way to get a bigger player base.
They're a business, they need to make money, they need to stay alive. If you like HoN, and want it to succeed, then you have to support any method of keeping the game alive, this being one of them even if it'll lead to a flood of noobs into AP.
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On July 30 2011 02:40 Wyrm_uW wrote:
I can understand why S2 did this. To be honest, this method is likely the best way to get a bigger player base.
They're a business, they need to make money, they need to stay alive. If you like HoN, and want it to succeed, then you have to support any method of keeping the game alive, this being one of them even if it'll lead to a flood of noobs into AP.
Agreed. It's a smart move. As a legacy player (an even bigger chump because I bought a 30$ account 1.5 weeks before they went on sale- FML) I don't see this as a problem. True I've probably played only around 100 games so I can't really comment on how this might change the dynamics of all the matchmaking settings, but a lot of LoL players will switch over, who might recognize HoN as they game they'd rather play for many reasons (let's not get into THAT discussion) but didn't want to spend the money. Plus it's a preemptive move against the release of DoTA 2. Glad to see S2 manning up.
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I hear shitting all over your current player base is a good way to develop a player base.
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On July 30 2011 02:10 Torte de Lini wrote:
I've never jungled with Lego or got Alchem. bones. I thought it was an item to get if you were doing well in farm and making a lot of gold.
Even bubbles got it now.
No, there's never any reason to go alch bones on lego, unless its to troll people or to prove how bad you are
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On July 30 2011 02:53 Kupon3ss wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2011 02:10 Torte de Lini wrote:
I've never jungled with Lego or got Alchem. bones. I thought it was an item to get if you were doing well in farm and making a lot of gold.
Even bubbles got it now. No, there's never any reason to go alch bones on lego, unless its to troll people or to prove how bad you are
In which cases do you get Alch bones?
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On July 30 2011 02:55 Torte de Lini wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2011 02:53 Kupon3ss wrote:On July 30 2011 02:10 Torte de Lini wrote:
I've never jungled with Lego or got Alchem. bones. I thought it was an item to get if you were doing well in farm and making a lot of gold.
Even bubbles got it now. No, there's never any reason to go alch bones on lego, unless its to troll people or to prove how bad you are In which cases do you get Alch bones?
to troll people or to prove how bad you are
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On July 30 2011 02:57 don_kyuhote wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2011 02:55 Torte de Lini wrote:On July 30 2011 02:53 Kupon3ss wrote:On July 30 2011 02:10 Torte de Lini wrote:
I've never jungled with Lego or got Alchem. bones. I thought it was an item to get if you were doing well in farm and making a lot of gold.
Even bubbles got it now. No, there's never any reason to go alch bones on lego, unless its to troll people or to prove how bad you are In which cases do you get Alch bones? to troll people or to prove how bad you are
Wow, really?
I thought he was saying that only for Lego .__.
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EPT
