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On July 10 2011 09:01 Dead9 wrote:
"bottle crowing" is sending the bottle back and forth between the fountain to fill it
so "pinoy bottle crowing" is probably sending the bottle back and forth between the fountain to fill it, except executed very poorly
as a side note chalice sucks and there's pretty much never any reason to ever get it over a bottle unless you already have a bottle
Seriously, it went from ridiculously imba to useless in like a month period
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On July 10 2011 08:44 rabidch wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2011 08:36 Judicator wrote:On July 10 2011 07:44 rabidch wrote:On July 10 2011 07:20 Judicator wrote:On July 10 2011 05:35 rabidch wrote:On July 10 2011 04:26 Judicator wrote:On July 10 2011 03:56 Nevuk wrote:On July 10 2011 03:42 Jayme wrote:On July 09 2011 23:34 Alur wrote:On July 09 2011 21:03 wonderwall wrote:
[quote]
When did that ever occur? With winged courier speed and invulnerability that seems incredibly unlikely. Disregarding the risk associated with sending out courier with no map control, you still have to account for travel time. Meaning if you can afford a crucial item just as your opponents are killing your rax - you're in trouble. In addition to that I just found courier usage at those stages akward, especially in tense situations. There is really no risk to sending out the courier because you could just send it in the tree line until you got to the shop, used invuln, got your thing and gtfo. I just found the secret shop a massive inconvenience. Not when you can put down a ward that covers the entrance to the secret shop on both sides by air (although legion's is really hard and involves a very small pixel count placement), and when all heroes hit for hard enouhg to kill the courier in 1 hit. And when I play behemoth I buy 4-6 mana pots and bird the courier, then just keep flying mana pots to pretty much keep up at all times while roaming. (I saw china do this first and just copied it). He doesn't need to farm after he gets pk so I don't really see the point in mana regen on him. I don't know about HoN, but if I saw an ES do that in DotA, it's a massive sign of not knowing what the fuck they're doing. 2 Mana Pots should carry you over to your first item and if not, you're not going to need any mana regen. HoN players seem to like fast PK. I don't think it's as useful without imba ult and mana is strained for a little bit after you get it and when you're getting it, so there is a very visible downside to it. Again, don't know about HoN, but mana is one of the cheapest stat to afford in the game. cheapest yes, but the rate per gold is slow and its noncombat. i prefer having pocket mana all the time for a possible 2nd iteration rather than trying to fast dagger. you think with all these free movespeed items hon gives you...  No, no that's not what I meant, how necessary your PK/BD is up to the discretion of the player. There's nothing wrong with either, but constantly streaming mana pots when any of the early game mana producing items are more monetarily efficient. You only need as much mana as long as you are alive. Basically someone said before, you only need that much mana if you suck at landing good Fissures. Or if you're playing a defensive roaming ES. well yes, streaming mana pots is dumb, dumber than pinoy crowing. i guess im talking about going into mid game ES
Mid game ES varies, while you can't go wrong with Dagger ever, how fast or gamebreaking Dagger actually is changes. Depends your setup.
Edit:
Nevuk, I can't speak for HoN, but in DotA you really shouldn't need more than 4 potions total like over the first 10 minutes and that's if you're on a major roll.
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On July 10 2011 09:07 Judicator wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2011 08:44 rabidch wrote:On July 10 2011 08:36 Judicator wrote:On July 10 2011 07:44 rabidch wrote:On July 10 2011 07:20 Judicator wrote:On July 10 2011 05:35 rabidch wrote:On July 10 2011 04:26 Judicator wrote:On July 10 2011 03:56 Nevuk wrote:On July 10 2011 03:42 Jayme wrote:On July 09 2011 23:34 Alur wrote:
[quote]
Disregarding the risk associated with sending out courier with no map control, you still have to account for travel time. Meaning if you can afford a crucial item just as your opponents are killing your rax - you're in trouble. In addition to that I just found courier usage at those stages akward, especially in tense situations. There is really no risk to sending out the courier because you could just send it in the tree line until you got to the shop, used invuln, got your thing and gtfo. I just found the secret shop a massive inconvenience. Not when you can put down a ward that covers the entrance to the secret shop on both sides by air (although legion's is really hard and involves a very small pixel count placement), and when all heroes hit for hard enouhg to kill the courier in 1 hit. And when I play behemoth I buy 4-6 mana pots and bird the courier, then just keep flying mana pots to pretty much keep up at all times while roaming. (I saw china do this first and just copied it). He doesn't need to farm after he gets pk so I don't really see the point in mana regen on him. I don't know about HoN, but if I saw an ES do that in DotA, it's a massive sign of not knowing what the fuck they're doing. 2 Mana Pots should carry you over to your first item and if not, you're not going to need any mana regen. HoN players seem to like fast PK. I don't think it's as useful without imba ult and mana is strained for a little bit after you get it and when you're getting it, so there is a very visible downside to it. Again, don't know about HoN, but mana is one of the cheapest stat to afford in the game. cheapest yes, but the rate per gold is slow and its noncombat. i prefer having pocket mana all the time for a possible 2nd iteration rather than trying to fast dagger. you think with all these free movespeed items hon gives you... No, no that's not what I meant, how necessary your PK/BD is up to the discretion of the player. There's nothing wrong with either, but constantly streaming mana pots when any of the early game mana producing items are more monetarily efficient. You only need as much mana as long as you are alive. Basically someone said before, you only need that much mana if you suck at landing good Fissures. Or if you're playing a defensive roaming ES. well yes, streaming mana pots is dumb, dumber than pinoy crowing. i guess im talking about going into mid game ES Mid game ES varies, while you can't go wrong with Dagger ever, how fast or gamebreaking Dagger actually is changes. Depends your setup. Edit: Nevuk, I can't speak for HoN, but in DotA you really shouldn't need more than 4 potions total like over the first 10 minutes and that's if you're on a major roll.
That's about what I go through. And you're correct, it is bad to ferry mana pots and it is a habit I broke about 2 months ago, it was just broken on a subconscious level rather than a conscious one (sorry if this sounds... strange, but that's how I play... it wasn't until thinking about my last 5 or 6 times playing behemoth that I realized I hadn't needed to get mana pots off the courier at all).
I should have clarified about this a bit, I guess.
The only time I ever get more off the courier now is after the 12 minute mark if I haven't gone back to base and need mana to stop an immediately incoming push at the outer towers. I also don't pick ES unless I'm playing a defensive roaming style, other players I play with are far better at more aggressive uses of him and I would rather play magmus or hammerstorm in instances where I want to do aggressive roaming. And I fully admit that my behemoth is not up to par, my fissures are mediocre and have single handedly lost won games.
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From the sound of it Pinoy Bottle Crowing is that annoying BR guy who takes solo mid with bottle first and ignores the rune spawns but keeps the courier eternally tied up by spamming his skills as much as he can while chain ferrying the bottle back and forth with the crow. It's the equivalent of your side lanes having no courier.
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Bottle crowing is only needed sometimes when you're in a close fight mid and you don't get the rune, and now you've got an empty bottle. If you don't want to have to play really defensively then you need those 2 charges.
Ferrying nonstop every 35 seconds is annoying as fuck and if you want to do that you should buy your own bottle. As far as I know no hero uses their mana that fast except a low level SS who is nuking every wave from like level 2 onwards.
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pinoy crowing is probably bottle crowing, since pinoys tend to do that, where you send your bottle back to base to refill it. This ties up the crow forever and in most cases if youre rune whoring you wont need more than 1 bottle every 2 minutes unless youre being crazy aggressive (dota player here)
Edit: sorry for the late replay, i was afk in this thread for an hour and thats the last post i saw
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If DotA2 has achievements, pinoy bottling needs to be one.
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the thing that separates pinoy bottle and bottle-crowing is that pinoys use at least 2 crows, sometimes more.
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DotA achievements would be great:
TP as five to bot and then lose your top tower
Kill an enemy in their well right as they spawn with TB/Bomb ulti
Stormspirit an ally deadwood as they are ulting
Tablet an ally into 3 stuns
Hag ult in between two heroes, hitting neither of them
Use a regen rune and immediately use rot to lose it
Buy a sheepstick and forget you have it for 20 minutes
^All things that I have done
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Blink in as Behe and realize you don't have mana for anything is a favorite of mine
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On July 10 2011 11:47 GhostKorean wrote:
DotA achievements would be great:
TP as five to bot and then lose your top tower
Kill an enemy in their well right as they spawn with TB/Bomb ulti
Stormspirit an ally deadwood as they are ulting
Tablet an ally into 3 stuns
Hag ult in between two heroes, hitting neither of them
Use a regen rune and immediately use rot to lose it
Buy a sheepstick and forget you have it for 20 minutes
^All things that I have done
The problem is that you have no achievements. Coincidentally, you've also quit.
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I like: Armadon killing 3 people chasing after it by simply running the other way.
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I really only bottle crow if I solo the short lane 1v2 with a mana-dependent hero.
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On July 10 2011 12:12 Durak wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2011 11:47 GhostKorean wrote:
DotA achievements would be great:
TP as five to bot and then lose your top tower
Kill an enemy in their well right as they spawn with TB/Bomb ulti
Stormspirit an ally deadwood as they are ulting
Tablet an ally into 3 stuns
Hag ult in between two heroes, hitting neither of them
Use a regen rune and immediately use rot to lose it
Buy a sheepstick and forget you have it for 20 minutes
^All things that I have done The problem is that you have no achievements. Coincidentally, you've also quit.
HOW DID YOU KNOW
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On July 10 2011 17:38 Prime`Rib wrote:
any 1800+ mmr?
Yes, but at this hour it's either get matched with 1600s or against EXsk with jah on your team.
And the pubs that are bad are truly hideously bad, as in pick gladiator and demand mid, then dual lane it instead of soloing as bubbles from your sd pool.
Or as nymph/dev die to a solo glacius 4 times before level 4, then roam top at level 4 and start stunning full hp creeps with a 100 dmg stun to "push them out of tower range, because you can't give them towers for free" when the creeps aren't in tower range at all.
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no, we are all around 1650-1700
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My MMR is tanking something fierce because I keep randoming in AP and of course I suck with new heroes
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Dropped down to 1575 after some colossal retardation in pub games. Pick Wildsoul, we've got Swiftblade Polly top and Valk soloing bottom so I figure lanes can handle me sitting in jungle with midas for a while. Polly manages to feed 6 kills in 10 minutes. They now have a 5-0 Flint who has complete lane dominance and is freefarming. Team refuses to concede as "Nah bro you have Midas just outfarm him". 15 minutes of pointless ricing later we get genocided twice in a row and cc.
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On July 10 2011 12:12 Durak wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2011 11:47 GhostKorean wrote:
DotA achievements would be great:
TP as five to bot and then lose your top tower
Kill an enemy in their well right as they spawn with TB/Bomb ulti
Stormspirit an ally deadwood as they are ulting
Tablet an ally into 3 stuns
Hag ult in between two heroes, hitting neither of them
Use a regen rune and immediately use rot to lose it
Buy a sheepstick and forget you have it for 20 minutes
^All things that I have done The problem is that you have no achievements. Coincidentally, you've also quit.
D: There won't be a bomb ulti or a deadwood ulti in Dota 2. I actually think i will shed a tear for bomb if i end up swapping to dota2. He is such an awesome hero.
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EPT
