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Behe is usually played as a roaming type hero so you don't have opportunity to sit in lane and farm a mana ring. Generally you get a couple mana pots to start and you get striders and a bottle and camp runes all during laning phase and gank all over, then move to saving for your pk afterwards with hopefully a decent amount in the bank from assists.
If you are sitting in lane in a 2 2 1 situation and not really moving, chalice is better than otherwise.
Chalice/bottle/power supply optional.
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On July 09 2011 23:34 Alur wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2011 21:03 wonderwall wrote:Removal of secret shop makes turtling with a carry stronger, it used to be possible for you to push up outside their rax and if you couldn't push in just ward around the shop and prevent them from ever getting their 2500 gold items, rendering their farm effectively useless. Granted it rarely happened but it was definitely a factor in a fair amount of games. When did that ever occur? With winged courier speed and invulnerability that seems incredibly unlikely. Disregarding the risk associated with sending out courier with no map control, you still have to account for travel time. Meaning if you can afford a crucial item just as your opponents are killing your rax - you're in trouble. In addition to that I just found courier usage at those stages akward, especially in tense situations.
There is really no risk to sending out the courier because you could just send it in the tree line until you got to the shop, used invuln, got your thing and gtfo.
I just found the secret shop a massive inconvenience.
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Uh there is a big risk/inconvenience to sending out courier in late game when everyone has lots of farm and you're being pushed
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On July 09 2011 23:11 GhostKorean wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2011 20:16 rabidch wrote:On July 09 2011 18:53 GhostKorean wrote:
I assumed breaky played on another account so people wouldn't bother him
What exacty does the secret shop do aside from delaying some item for a minute? No idiot is going to get their flying courier killed while buying something You've obviously never watched FTD vs KS. Also it's one of those areas you can easily lose the game against at least psuedo push lineup if the long or mid lane gets pushed (short/mid lane tower positions, how far away depends on how long game is and of course, lineups) and you lose a team fight there, I've seen this sometimes and it's a huge, huge blunder to do. Secret shop just adds another layer of interesting to get more expensive items. Show nested quote +On July 09 2011 20:27 stanley_ wrote:
lol nvm but secret shops are awesome, wait there with an invis rune Show nested quote +On July 09 2011 20:35 Nevuk wrote:
Removal of secret shop makes turtling with a carry stronger, it used to be possible for you to push up outside their rax and if you couldn't push in just ward around the shop and prevent them from ever getting their 2500 gold items, rendering their farm effectively useless. Granted it rarely happened but it was definitely a factor in a fair amount of games.
I think it was a fair change though, as they nerfed turtling in a lot of different ways (widened ramps, etc.) Flying courier???? Rabidch your point has nothing to do with the actual shop but rather the position of the shop on the map
u r a geniouss
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I hate chalice. I follow this guide a lot: http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/showthread.php?t=211500
But everything seems outdated (he suggests chalice for every int hero). I don't like chalice because either 1. I don't have the HP to lose 150 and 2. I never get my hp back when a kill comes my way (timer always runs out QQ)
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On July 10 2011 03:42 Jayme wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2011 23:34 Alur wrote:On July 09 2011 21:03 wonderwall wrote:Removal of secret shop makes turtling with a carry stronger, it used to be possible for you to push up outside their rax and if you couldn't push in just ward around the shop and prevent them from ever getting their 2500 gold items, rendering their farm effectively useless. Granted it rarely happened but it was definitely a factor in a fair amount of games. When did that ever occur? With winged courier speed and invulnerability that seems incredibly unlikely. Disregarding the risk associated with sending out courier with no map control, you still have to account for travel time. Meaning if you can afford a crucial item just as your opponents are killing your rax - you're in trouble. In addition to that I just found courier usage at those stages akward, especially in tense situations. There is really no risk to sending out the courier because you could just send it in the tree line until you got to the shop, used invuln, got your thing and gtfo. I just found the secret shop a massive inconvenience.
Not when you can put down a ward that covers the entrance to the secret shop on both sides by air (although legion's is really hard and involves a very small pixel count placement), and when all heroes hit for hard enouhg to kill the courier in 1 hit.
And when I play behemoth I buy 4-6 mana pots and bird the courier, then just keep flying mana pots to pretty much keep up at all times while roaming. (I saw china do this first and just copied it). He doesn't need to farm after he gets pk so I don't really see the point in mana regen on him.
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On July 10 2011 03:56 Nevuk wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2011 03:42 Jayme wrote:On July 09 2011 23:34 Alur wrote:On July 09 2011 21:03 wonderwall wrote:Removal of secret shop makes turtling with a carry stronger, it used to be possible for you to push up outside their rax and if you couldn't push in just ward around the shop and prevent them from ever getting their 2500 gold items, rendering their farm effectively useless. Granted it rarely happened but it was definitely a factor in a fair amount of games. When did that ever occur? With winged courier speed and invulnerability that seems incredibly unlikely. Disregarding the risk associated with sending out courier with no map control, you still have to account for travel time. Meaning if you can afford a crucial item just as your opponents are killing your rax - you're in trouble. In addition to that I just found courier usage at those stages akward, especially in tense situations. There is really no risk to sending out the courier because you could just send it in the tree line until you got to the shop, used invuln, got your thing and gtfo. I just found the secret shop a massive inconvenience. Not when you can put down a ward that covers the entrance to the secret shop on both sides by air (although legion's is really hard and involves a very small pixel count placement), and when all heroes hit for hard enouhg to kill the courier in 1 hit. And when I play behemoth I buy 4-6 mana pots and bird the courier, then just keep flying mana pots to pretty much keep up at all times while roaming. (I saw china do this first and just copied it). He doesn't need to farm after he gets pk so I don't really see the point in mana regen on him.
=p Send it over when you push out or defend the long lane if you want to be super safe.
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On July 10 2011 03:56 Nevuk wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2011 03:42 Jayme wrote:On July 09 2011 23:34 Alur wrote:On July 09 2011 21:03 wonderwall wrote:Removal of secret shop makes turtling with a carry stronger, it used to be possible for you to push up outside their rax and if you couldn't push in just ward around the shop and prevent them from ever getting their 2500 gold items, rendering their farm effectively useless. Granted it rarely happened but it was definitely a factor in a fair amount of games. When did that ever occur? With winged courier speed and invulnerability that seems incredibly unlikely. Disregarding the risk associated with sending out courier with no map control, you still have to account for travel time. Meaning if you can afford a crucial item just as your opponents are killing your rax - you're in trouble. In addition to that I just found courier usage at those stages akward, especially in tense situations. There is really no risk to sending out the courier because you could just send it in the tree line until you got to the shop, used invuln, got your thing and gtfo. I just found the secret shop a massive inconvenience. Not when you can put down a ward that covers the entrance to the secret shop on both sides by air (although legion's is really hard and involves a very small pixel count placement), and when all heroes hit for hard enouhg to kill the courier in 1 hit. And when I play behemoth I buy 4-6 mana pots and bird the courier, then just keep flying mana pots to pretty much keep up at all times while roaming. (I saw china do this first and just copied it). He doesn't need to farm after he gets pk so I don't really see the point in mana regen on him.
I don't know about HoN, but if I saw an ES do that in DotA, it's a massive sign of not knowing what the fuck they're doing. 2 Mana Pots should carry you over to your first item and if not, you're not going to need any mana regen.
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No need to ferry mana pots especially to tie up courier early game
2 mana pots with health pot 1 tango 2 totems or just 4 mana pots if you suck at fissuring is more than enough
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On July 10 2011 04:26 Judicator wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2011 03:56 Nevuk wrote:On July 10 2011 03:42 Jayme wrote:On July 09 2011 23:34 Alur wrote:On July 09 2011 21:03 wonderwall wrote:Removal of secret shop makes turtling with a carry stronger, it used to be possible for you to push up outside their rax and if you couldn't push in just ward around the shop and prevent them from ever getting their 2500 gold items, rendering their farm effectively useless. Granted it rarely happened but it was definitely a factor in a fair amount of games. When did that ever occur? With winged courier speed and invulnerability that seems incredibly unlikely. Disregarding the risk associated with sending out courier with no map control, you still have to account for travel time. Meaning if you can afford a crucial item just as your opponents are killing your rax - you're in trouble. In addition to that I just found courier usage at those stages akward, especially in tense situations. There is really no risk to sending out the courier because you could just send it in the tree line until you got to the shop, used invuln, got your thing and gtfo. I just found the secret shop a massive inconvenience. Not when you can put down a ward that covers the entrance to the secret shop on both sides by air (although legion's is really hard and involves a very small pixel count placement), and when all heroes hit for hard enouhg to kill the courier in 1 hit. And when I play behemoth I buy 4-6 mana pots and bird the courier, then just keep flying mana pots to pretty much keep up at all times while roaming. (I saw china do this first and just copied it). He doesn't need to farm after he gets pk so I don't really see the point in mana regen on him. I don't know about HoN, but if I saw an ES do that in DotA, it's a massive sign of not knowing what the fuck they're doing. 2 Mana Pots should carry you over to your first item and if not, you're not going to need any mana regen.
HoN players seem to like fast PK. I don't think it's as useful without imba ult and mana is strained for a little bit after you get it and when you're getting it, so there is a very visible downside to it.
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On July 10 2011 05:35 rabidch wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2011 04:26 Judicator wrote:On July 10 2011 03:56 Nevuk wrote:On July 10 2011 03:42 Jayme wrote:On July 09 2011 23:34 Alur wrote:On July 09 2011 21:03 wonderwall wrote:Removal of secret shop makes turtling with a carry stronger, it used to be possible for you to push up outside their rax and if you couldn't push in just ward around the shop and prevent them from ever getting their 2500 gold items, rendering their farm effectively useless. Granted it rarely happened but it was definitely a factor in a fair amount of games. When did that ever occur? With winged courier speed and invulnerability that seems incredibly unlikely. Disregarding the risk associated with sending out courier with no map control, you still have to account for travel time. Meaning if you can afford a crucial item just as your opponents are killing your rax - you're in trouble. In addition to that I just found courier usage at those stages akward, especially in tense situations. There is really no risk to sending out the courier because you could just send it in the tree line until you got to the shop, used invuln, got your thing and gtfo. I just found the secret shop a massive inconvenience. Not when you can put down a ward that covers the entrance to the secret shop on both sides by air (although legion's is really hard and involves a very small pixel count placement), and when all heroes hit for hard enouhg to kill the courier in 1 hit. And when I play behemoth I buy 4-6 mana pots and bird the courier, then just keep flying mana pots to pretty much keep up at all times while roaming. (I saw china do this first and just copied it). He doesn't need to farm after he gets pk so I don't really see the point in mana regen on him. I don't know about HoN, but if I saw an ES do that in DotA, it's a massive sign of not knowing what the fuck they're doing. 2 Mana Pots should carry you over to your first item and if not, you're not going to need any mana regen. HoN players seem to like fast PK. I don't think it's as useful without imba ult and mana is strained for a little bit after you get it and when you're getting it, so there is a very visible downside to it.
Fast PK helps with positing the fissures when you're bad at aiming. :D
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On July 10 2011 04:39 Ganfei2 wrote:
No need to ferry mana pots especially to tie up courier early game
2 mana pots with health pot 1 tango 2 totems or just 4 mana pots if you suck at fissuring is more than enough
It's because I suck at fissuring, as you well know . Anyways I basically don't really need more than 4 mana pots ever unless the game is going really poorly(at least, not in the last few months), I typically get striders and roam around and sometimes visit the well between tping for counter ganks. I really haven't ever had to use the courier for mana pots (maybe once in a game after the laning phase)
Basically it only works out because of striders, if you run all the way out of mana the base is about 15 seconds away from any lane without putting your tp on cd.
edit :
I've seen h4nni and china do it, but not really anyone else.
On July 10 2011 04:21 semantics wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2011 03:56 Nevuk wrote:On July 10 2011 03:42 Jayme wrote:On July 09 2011 23:34 Alur wrote:On July 09 2011 21:03 wonderwall wrote:Removal of secret shop makes turtling with a carry stronger, it used to be possible for you to push up outside their rax and if you couldn't push in just ward around the shop and prevent them from ever getting their 2500 gold items, rendering their farm effectively useless. Granted it rarely happened but it was definitely a factor in a fair amount of games. When did that ever occur? With winged courier speed and invulnerability that seems incredibly unlikely. Disregarding the risk associated with sending out courier with no map control, you still have to account for travel time. Meaning if you can afford a crucial item just as your opponents are killing your rax - you're in trouble. In addition to that I just found courier usage at those stages akward, especially in tense situations. There is really no risk to sending out the courier because you could just send it in the tree line until you got to the shop, used invuln, got your thing and gtfo. I just found the secret shop a massive inconvenience. Not when you can put down a ward that covers the entrance to the secret shop on both sides by air (although legion's is really hard and involves a very small pixel count placement), and when all heroes hit for hard enouhg to kill the courier in 1 hit. And when I play behemoth I buy 4-6 mana pots and bird the courier, then just keep flying mana pots to pretty much keep up at all times while roaming. (I saw china do this first and just copied it). He doesn't need to farm after he gets pk so I don't really see the point in mana regen on him. =p Send it over when you push out or defend the long lane
The issue was that they would pseudo push without going into your base and just try to starve you out while keeping you in base and preventing your team from even farming their own jungle and lanes. 99/100 times this would mean the game is lost anyways, but there was always that 1 time when say your wildsoul has a mock but can't finish it, or X large item that is great at defending pushes.
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On July 10 2011 05:35 rabidch wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2011 04:26 Judicator wrote:On July 10 2011 03:56 Nevuk wrote:On July 10 2011 03:42 Jayme wrote:On July 09 2011 23:34 Alur wrote:On July 09 2011 21:03 wonderwall wrote:Removal of secret shop makes turtling with a carry stronger, it used to be possible for you to push up outside their rax and if you couldn't push in just ward around the shop and prevent them from ever getting their 2500 gold items, rendering their farm effectively useless. Granted it rarely happened but it was definitely a factor in a fair amount of games. When did that ever occur? With winged courier speed and invulnerability that seems incredibly unlikely. Disregarding the risk associated with sending out courier with no map control, you still have to account for travel time. Meaning if you can afford a crucial item just as your opponents are killing your rax - you're in trouble. In addition to that I just found courier usage at those stages akward, especially in tense situations. There is really no risk to sending out the courier because you could just send it in the tree line until you got to the shop, used invuln, got your thing and gtfo. I just found the secret shop a massive inconvenience. Not when you can put down a ward that covers the entrance to the secret shop on both sides by air (although legion's is really hard and involves a very small pixel count placement), and when all heroes hit for hard enouhg to kill the courier in 1 hit. And when I play behemoth I buy 4-6 mana pots and bird the courier, then just keep flying mana pots to pretty much keep up at all times while roaming. (I saw china do this first and just copied it). He doesn't need to farm after he gets pk so I don't really see the point in mana regen on him. I don't know about HoN, but if I saw an ES do that in DotA, it's a massive sign of not knowing what the fuck they're doing. 2 Mana Pots should carry you over to your first item and if not, you're not going to need any mana regen. HoN players seem to like fast PK. I don't think it's as useful without imba ult and mana is strained for a little bit after you get it and when you're getting it, so there is a very visible downside to it.
Again, don't know about HoN, but mana is one of the cheapest stat to afford in the game.
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On July 10 2011 07:20 Judicator wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2011 05:35 rabidch wrote:On July 10 2011 04:26 Judicator wrote:On July 10 2011 03:56 Nevuk wrote:On July 10 2011 03:42 Jayme wrote:On July 09 2011 23:34 Alur wrote:On July 09 2011 21:03 wonderwall wrote:Removal of secret shop makes turtling with a carry stronger, it used to be possible for you to push up outside their rax and if you couldn't push in just ward around the shop and prevent them from ever getting their 2500 gold items, rendering their farm effectively useless. Granted it rarely happened but it was definitely a factor in a fair amount of games. When did that ever occur? With winged courier speed and invulnerability that seems incredibly unlikely. Disregarding the risk associated with sending out courier with no map control, you still have to account for travel time. Meaning if you can afford a crucial item just as your opponents are killing your rax - you're in trouble. In addition to that I just found courier usage at those stages akward, especially in tense situations. There is really no risk to sending out the courier because you could just send it in the tree line until you got to the shop, used invuln, got your thing and gtfo. I just found the secret shop a massive inconvenience. Not when you can put down a ward that covers the entrance to the secret shop on both sides by air (although legion's is really hard and involves a very small pixel count placement), and when all heroes hit for hard enouhg to kill the courier in 1 hit. And when I play behemoth I buy 4-6 mana pots and bird the courier, then just keep flying mana pots to pretty much keep up at all times while roaming. (I saw china do this first and just copied it). He doesn't need to farm after he gets pk so I don't really see the point in mana regen on him. I don't know about HoN, but if I saw an ES do that in DotA, it's a massive sign of not knowing what the fuck they're doing. 2 Mana Pots should carry you over to your first item and if not, you're not going to need any mana regen. HoN players seem to like fast PK. I don't think it's as useful without imba ult and mana is strained for a little bit after you get it and when you're getting it, so there is a very visible downside to it. Again, don't know about HoN, but mana is one of the cheapest stat to afford in the game.
One point of stats is common early on, skipping a point in enrage (the second skill), which lets you fissure twice at levels 3 + 5 with an almost full mana pool. I get a power supply (wand) and go straight blink after that, it shaves about 3-4 minutes off blink over going for chalice (the most common option which needs hp regen instead of mana regen). I ocasionally see level 8 behe with 4/0/2/1/(1) , but I typically go 4/1/1/1/(1).
It's certainly true that you can get mana for cheap, but blink is expensive and you have to save up for a long time to get it, and in a team fight until you have a pk a fissure, ult, and stomp are all the mana needed about 90% of the time (and the other 10% the wand will give you enough typically). After pk I may pick up a +3 int item or so just for blink mana.
Striders are basically a free haste rune, it would be really hard to get this working without them.
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On July 10 2011 07:20 Judicator wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2011 05:35 rabidch wrote:On July 10 2011 04:26 Judicator wrote:On July 10 2011 03:56 Nevuk wrote:On July 10 2011 03:42 Jayme wrote:On July 09 2011 23:34 Alur wrote:On July 09 2011 21:03 wonderwall wrote:Removal of secret shop makes turtling with a carry stronger, it used to be possible for you to push up outside their rax and if you couldn't push in just ward around the shop and prevent them from ever getting their 2500 gold items, rendering their farm effectively useless. Granted it rarely happened but it was definitely a factor in a fair amount of games. When did that ever occur? With winged courier speed and invulnerability that seems incredibly unlikely. Disregarding the risk associated with sending out courier with no map control, you still have to account for travel time. Meaning if you can afford a crucial item just as your opponents are killing your rax - you're in trouble. In addition to that I just found courier usage at those stages akward, especially in tense situations. There is really no risk to sending out the courier because you could just send it in the tree line until you got to the shop, used invuln, got your thing and gtfo. I just found the secret shop a massive inconvenience. Not when you can put down a ward that covers the entrance to the secret shop on both sides by air (although legion's is really hard and involves a very small pixel count placement), and when all heroes hit for hard enouhg to kill the courier in 1 hit. And when I play behemoth I buy 4-6 mana pots and bird the courier, then just keep flying mana pots to pretty much keep up at all times while roaming. (I saw china do this first and just copied it). He doesn't need to farm after he gets pk so I don't really see the point in mana regen on him. I don't know about HoN, but if I saw an ES do that in DotA, it's a massive sign of not knowing what the fuck they're doing. 2 Mana Pots should carry you over to your first item and if not, you're not going to need any mana regen. HoN players seem to like fast PK. I don't think it's as useful without imba ult and mana is strained for a little bit after you get it and when you're getting it, so there is a very visible downside to it. Again, don't know about HoN, but mana is one of the cheapest stat to afford in the game.
cheapest yes, but the rate per gold is slow and its noncombat. i prefer having pocket mana all the time for a possible 2nd iteration rather than trying to fast dagger. you think with all these free movespeed items hon gives you... 
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On July 10 2011 07:44 rabidch wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2011 07:20 Judicator wrote:On July 10 2011 05:35 rabidch wrote:On July 10 2011 04:26 Judicator wrote:On July 10 2011 03:56 Nevuk wrote:On July 10 2011 03:42 Jayme wrote:On July 09 2011 23:34 Alur wrote:On July 09 2011 21:03 wonderwall wrote:Removal of secret shop makes turtling with a carry stronger, it used to be possible for you to push up outside their rax and if you couldn't push in just ward around the shop and prevent them from ever getting their 2500 gold items, rendering their farm effectively useless. Granted it rarely happened but it was definitely a factor in a fair amount of games. When did that ever occur? With winged courier speed and invulnerability that seems incredibly unlikely. Disregarding the risk associated with sending out courier with no map control, you still have to account for travel time. Meaning if you can afford a crucial item just as your opponents are killing your rax - you're in trouble. In addition to that I just found courier usage at those stages akward, especially in tense situations. There is really no risk to sending out the courier because you could just send it in the tree line until you got to the shop, used invuln, got your thing and gtfo. I just found the secret shop a massive inconvenience. Not when you can put down a ward that covers the entrance to the secret shop on both sides by air (although legion's is really hard and involves a very small pixel count placement), and when all heroes hit for hard enouhg to kill the courier in 1 hit. And when I play behemoth I buy 4-6 mana pots and bird the courier, then just keep flying mana pots to pretty much keep up at all times while roaming. (I saw china do this first and just copied it). He doesn't need to farm after he gets pk so I don't really see the point in mana regen on him. I don't know about HoN, but if I saw an ES do that in DotA, it's a massive sign of not knowing what the fuck they're doing. 2 Mana Pots should carry you over to your first item and if not, you're not going to need any mana regen. HoN players seem to like fast PK. I don't think it's as useful without imba ult and mana is strained for a little bit after you get it and when you're getting it, so there is a very visible downside to it. Again, don't know about HoN, but mana is one of the cheapest stat to afford in the game. cheapest yes, but the rate per gold is slow and its noncombat. i prefer having pocket mana all the time for a possible 2nd iteration rather than trying to fast dagger. you think with all these free movespeed items hon gives you...
No, no that's not what I meant, how necessary your PK/BD is up to the discretion of the player. There's nothing wrong with either, but constantly streaming mana pots when any of the early game mana producing items are more monetarily efficient. You only need as much mana as long as you are alive.
Basically someone said before, you only need that much mana if you suck at landing good Fissures. Or if you're playing a defensive roaming ES.
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On July 10 2011 08:36 Judicator wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2011 07:44 rabidch wrote:On July 10 2011 07:20 Judicator wrote:On July 10 2011 05:35 rabidch wrote:On July 10 2011 04:26 Judicator wrote:On July 10 2011 03:56 Nevuk wrote:On July 10 2011 03:42 Jayme wrote:On July 09 2011 23:34 Alur wrote:On July 09 2011 21:03 wonderwall wrote:Removal of secret shop makes turtling with a carry stronger, it used to be possible for you to push up outside their rax and if you couldn't push in just ward around the shop and prevent them from ever getting their 2500 gold items, rendering their farm effectively useless. Granted it rarely happened but it was definitely a factor in a fair amount of games. When did that ever occur? With winged courier speed and invulnerability that seems incredibly unlikely. Disregarding the risk associated with sending out courier with no map control, you still have to account for travel time. Meaning if you can afford a crucial item just as your opponents are killing your rax - you're in trouble. In addition to that I just found courier usage at those stages akward, especially in tense situations. There is really no risk to sending out the courier because you could just send it in the tree line until you got to the shop, used invuln, got your thing and gtfo. I just found the secret shop a massive inconvenience. Not when you can put down a ward that covers the entrance to the secret shop on both sides by air (although legion's is really hard and involves a very small pixel count placement), and when all heroes hit for hard enouhg to kill the courier in 1 hit. And when I play behemoth I buy 4-6 mana pots and bird the courier, then just keep flying mana pots to pretty much keep up at all times while roaming. (I saw china do this first and just copied it). He doesn't need to farm after he gets pk so I don't really see the point in mana regen on him. I don't know about HoN, but if I saw an ES do that in DotA, it's a massive sign of not knowing what the fuck they're doing. 2 Mana Pots should carry you over to your first item and if not, you're not going to need any mana regen. HoN players seem to like fast PK. I don't think it's as useful without imba ult and mana is strained for a little bit after you get it and when you're getting it, so there is a very visible downside to it. Again, don't know about HoN, but mana is one of the cheapest stat to afford in the game. cheapest yes, but the rate per gold is slow and its noncombat. i prefer having pocket mana all the time for a possible 2nd iteration rather than trying to fast dagger. you think with all these free movespeed items hon gives you... No, no that's not what I meant, how necessary your PK/BD is up to the discretion of the player. There's nothing wrong with either, but constantly streaming mana pots when any of the early game mana producing items are more monetarily efficient. You only need as much mana as long as you are alive. Basically someone said before, you only need that much mana if you suck at landing good Fissures. Or if you're playing a defensive roaming ES.
well yes, streaming mana pots is dumb, dumber than pinoy crowing. i guess im talking about going into mid game ES
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On July 10 2011 08:44 rabidch wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2011 08:36 Judicator wrote:On July 10 2011 07:44 rabidch wrote:On July 10 2011 07:20 Judicator wrote:On July 10 2011 05:35 rabidch wrote:On July 10 2011 04:26 Judicator wrote:On July 10 2011 03:56 Nevuk wrote:On July 10 2011 03:42 Jayme wrote:On July 09 2011 23:34 Alur wrote:On July 09 2011 21:03 wonderwall wrote:
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When did that ever occur? With winged courier speed and invulnerability that seems incredibly unlikely. Disregarding the risk associated with sending out courier with no map control, you still have to account for travel time. Meaning if you can afford a crucial item just as your opponents are killing your rax - you're in trouble. In addition to that I just found courier usage at those stages akward, especially in tense situations. There is really no risk to sending out the courier because you could just send it in the tree line until you got to the shop, used invuln, got your thing and gtfo. I just found the secret shop a massive inconvenience. Not when you can put down a ward that covers the entrance to the secret shop on both sides by air (although legion's is really hard and involves a very small pixel count placement), and when all heroes hit for hard enouhg to kill the courier in 1 hit. And when I play behemoth I buy 4-6 mana pots and bird the courier, then just keep flying mana pots to pretty much keep up at all times while roaming. (I saw china do this first and just copied it). He doesn't need to farm after he gets pk so I don't really see the point in mana regen on him. I don't know about HoN, but if I saw an ES do that in DotA, it's a massive sign of not knowing what the fuck they're doing. 2 Mana Pots should carry you over to your first item and if not, you're not going to need any mana regen. HoN players seem to like fast PK. I don't think it's as useful without imba ult and mana is strained for a little bit after you get it and when you're getting it, so there is a very visible downside to it. Again, don't know about HoN, but mana is one of the cheapest stat to afford in the game. cheapest yes, but the rate per gold is slow and its noncombat. i prefer having pocket mana all the time for a possible 2nd iteration rather than trying to fast dagger. you think with all these free movespeed items hon gives you... No, no that's not what I meant, how necessary your PK/BD is up to the discretion of the player. There's nothing wrong with either, but constantly streaming mana pots when any of the early game mana producing items are more monetarily efficient. You only need as much mana as long as you are alive. Basically someone said before, you only need that much mana if you suck at landing good Fissures. Or if you're playing a defensive roaming ES. well yes, streaming mana pots is dumb, dumber than pinoy crowing. i guess im talking about going into mid game ES
what is ... pinoy crowing?
and I misspoke, I don't constantly stream mana pots, just start with several.
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On July 10 2011 08:47 Nevuk wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2011 08:44 rabidch wrote:On July 10 2011 08:36 Judicator wrote:On July 10 2011 07:44 rabidch wrote:On July 10 2011 07:20 Judicator wrote:On July 10 2011 05:35 rabidch wrote:On July 10 2011 04:26 Judicator wrote:On July 10 2011 03:56 Nevuk wrote:On July 10 2011 03:42 Jayme wrote:On July 09 2011 23:34 Alur wrote:
[quote]
Disregarding the risk associated with sending out courier with no map control, you still have to account for travel time. Meaning if you can afford a crucial item just as your opponents are killing your rax - you're in trouble. In addition to that I just found courier usage at those stages akward, especially in tense situations. There is really no risk to sending out the courier because you could just send it in the tree line until you got to the shop, used invuln, got your thing and gtfo. I just found the secret shop a massive inconvenience. Not when you can put down a ward that covers the entrance to the secret shop on both sides by air (although legion's is really hard and involves a very small pixel count placement), and when all heroes hit for hard enouhg to kill the courier in 1 hit. And when I play behemoth I buy 4-6 mana pots and bird the courier, then just keep flying mana pots to pretty much keep up at all times while roaming. (I saw china do this first and just copied it). He doesn't need to farm after he gets pk so I don't really see the point in mana regen on him. I don't know about HoN, but if I saw an ES do that in DotA, it's a massive sign of not knowing what the fuck they're doing. 2 Mana Pots should carry you over to your first item and if not, you're not going to need any mana regen. HoN players seem to like fast PK. I don't think it's as useful without imba ult and mana is strained for a little bit after you get it and when you're getting it, so there is a very visible downside to it. Again, don't know about HoN, but mana is one of the cheapest stat to afford in the game. cheapest yes, but the rate per gold is slow and its noncombat. i prefer having pocket mana all the time for a possible 2nd iteration rather than trying to fast dagger. you think with all these free movespeed items hon gives you... No, no that's not what I meant, how necessary your PK/BD is up to the discretion of the player. There's nothing wrong with either, but constantly streaming mana pots when any of the early game mana producing items are more monetarily efficient. You only need as much mana as long as you are alive. Basically someone said before, you only need that much mana if you suck at landing good Fissures. Or if you're playing a defensive roaming ES. well yes, streaming mana pots is dumb, dumber than pinoy crowing. i guess im talking about going into mid game ES what is ... pinoy crowing? and I misspoke, I don't constantly stream mana pots, just start with several.
From the connotation of it
I can only assume it's where you have multiple crows bottle ferrying.
Edit: probably on heroes that don't even need it at all.
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"bottle crowing" is sending the bottle back and forth between the fountain to fill it
so "pinoy bottle crowing" is probably sending the bottle back and forth between the fountain to fill it, except executed very poorly
as a side note chalice sucks and there's pretty much never any reason to ever get it over a bottle unless you already have a bottle
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EPT
