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On June 29 2011 15:11 Torte de Lini wrote:
I never understand why people insult their own allies on the team.
Whenever I soloQ, I get the loudest people who feel the need to tell others they suck, but need to be reminded that we all have the generally same PSR.
It just boggles and baffles my mind.
A bit over 1800 here and I get queued with 1600s quite often. About 80% of the time this 1600 guy proceeds to instapick some retarded hardcarry a la magebane/night hound and readies up, forcing me as pink to pick some sort of support.
I then have to sit there watching him miss creep kills.
And die.
It makes me angry. I imagine other people have similar experiences.
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On June 29 2011 17:15 semantics wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2011 15:43 TheTester wrote:
Flint is a terrible mid - really bad base damage, no escapes, dies when out of position to like anything.
Hag is weak too. My favorite is to pick fayde against hag because cull is either free or gives you mana back @ lvl 3-4 if you hit hag/ranged creep, so you can stun/cull to harass and then kill her with ult early on. Conveniently scream range = stun range.
And you never want to see a fayde get big early on ;o mostly you don't want flint mid becuase hes not a roamer
neither is soulstealer
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On June 29 2011 18:38 Ethenielle wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2011 15:11 Torte de Lini wrote:
I never understand why people insult their own allies on the team.
Whenever I soloQ, I get the loudest people who feel the need to tell others they suck, but need to be reminded that we all have the generally same PSR.
It just boggles and baffles my mind. A bit over 1800 here and I get queued with 1600s quite often. About 80% of the time this 1600 guy proceeds to instapick some retarded hardcarry a la magebane/night hound and readies up, forcing me as pink to pick some sort of support. I then have to sit there watching him miss creep kills. And die. It makes me angry. I imagine other people have similar experiences.
Yes. I want to die everytime I see someone instapick in the first place xD
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neither is soulstealer
Well Soulstealer has an earlygame presence with hands and ulti. Flint can chip them to death from halfway across the map and thats about it.
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I always assumed ss was played mid because he will be hitting the jungle from lv7 and mid will ensure he won't run into a trilane.
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On June 29 2011 15:37 Torte de Lini wrote:
Except they win.
I honestly hope I lose everytime I get an asshole like that. I do the cowardly preteen thing and talk about my shitty team at the end with other people :3
Torte, we should TMM together and form a binary star of positivityness. The people who get -so- angry in this game were offensive at first but they've developed to be... funny to me. ;o People who have like 800 games played or smth who're still 1400 and scream out advice are the silliest.
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On June 29 2011 17:15 semantics wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2011 15:43 TheTester wrote:
Flint is a terrible mid - really bad base damage, no escapes, dies when out of position to like anything.
Hag is weak too. My favorite is to pick fayde against hag because cull is either free or gives you mana back @ lvl 3-4 if you hit hag/ranged creep, so you can stun/cull to harass and then kill her with ult early on. Conveniently scream range = stun range.
And you never want to see a fayde get big early on ;o mostly you don't want flint mid becuase hes not a roamer
I like flint mid, I feel like his attack animation aswell as his capability to harass makes up for the base damage. And while you are quite immobile at first, ghost marchers really help with this issue. When it comes to ganking it does often require a good rune, so that just gives me an excuse to static farm mid :D.
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On June 29 2011 13:18 Nevuk wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2011 09:32 Ganfei2 wrote:
Devourer is really irritating middle and I personally have a very difficult time with him even when against players far below my skill level. I dislike having to think about it so much and watch him so carefully for hook possibilities. I've also been hooked a few times by the most ridiculously and obviously shouldn't-be-hitting-me-hooks that I have a psychological fear of them. Good devourers will constantly pull the lane to try to get you in a position where you can't see uphill and he's in the fog, so you need to pull back. A ward in the middle on your opponent's hill does wonders against devo. You can either place it purely for use against devo or, for example, if you're legion you can place a ward on the left hellbourne middle ramp on the edge to see the rune + see about 1/2 of devo's middle lane, so you can get some bonus vision for dodging hooks + rune vision.
Heros like defiler, flint, SS etc are total trash against a good devourer. 0 escapes, 0 damage if forced to fight inside rot, shitty HP pools. Any ranged hero can "sort of" win with good harass but if you get hooked even ONCE you're done, there's literally nothing you can do. Heros with leaps like valk, hag, or with good disables like puppet, completely rape devo. Heros who can do a lot of melee range damage while standing their ground also rape devo, like DR, who can spam his Q for extra damage to harass + if he gets caught in rot just Q 3 times in 9 seconds and rape the devo. I think everyone knows that the best counter to dev is panda/pred/melee str mid. Flux imba too. Start punch dagger hp pot and rape.
(Not being serious here... just making fun of Nome's guides. Such bad starting items always. Many melee heroes are ok vs dev mid, I think it's just that if they predict it and sidelane dev you're a little screwed).It is true that you're bad vs dev though, I've seen you lose defiler to legit 1650 dev players. We usually win those games later on anyways however. Also, that is my favorite ward spot. Show nested quote +
I always find it funny that people make fun of unconventional builds and proceed to lose to it, it's so boring to do the same builds every game because rarely are games the same.
It was strange, the other team questioned the deso but then my team's plague rider decided that the 35 minute vlad's after deso was an awful awful pickup. So most of the item choices in the game were team-criticisms, which was a pretty odd experience. I dunno, it kind of made sense to me but I don't ever play carries. Whenever I play a melee carry I pretty much flip a coin to determine when I want vlad's. Farming is pewpew boring to me. (Either way the bkb would've probably been a little better coming before vlad's rather than after. I rarely ever played dota and still find the dota names so much better for the most part). I find it really depends on the hero and lineup you're playing. Some heroes almost always have the same item builds while others are lot more flexible. (Gladiator is almost always shroud, behe eventually needs his blink, etc). The one that always bothers me is everyone playing tempest pk first in jungle. I do it sometimes but really his stat gain lets you do really different stuff and be fine, but people get really whiny if you have a 30 minute pk, shamans, steamboots instead of a 20 minute naked pk. As I understand it this is pretty much something that's exclusive to hon, and I've never really figured out why enigma is a solo sidelane hero and tempest is a jungle for 30 minutes hero. (I mean obviously a well-played tempest ganks more) Show nested quote +On June 29 2011 02:17 Judicator wrote:
Yo man, gotta impress strangers on the internet. If they go through the trouble to check if you're telling the truth, they're just nolife stalking losers anyway, fuck 'em, am I right?
On an unrelated note, got new job CEO'ing 10k/day sup? I once played an hour and forty minute pvz on andromeda in BW at the D+ level. The entire map was mined out and my opponent was building sunken colonies around the last mineral only. I asked my opponent how much he had and he said 4k. Watching the replay it was 34 minerals :/ I eventually won through dark archons and scouts, but I would've made less mineral efficient stuff had I thought he had less money.
So....now I need to know.....as a complete newbie, what guides do I need to be using? I try and follow the guide showed in the shop most of the time because I literally have no idea, and I've never been raged at for following said guide, so what is the problem? Sometimes I notice the early/mid game recommended items aren't right because they don't transition into anything later, but other than that, I don't know what I should be getting so I just follow the default guide, which is nome's usually, I think.
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On June 29 2011 13:18 Nevuk wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2011 09:32 Ganfei2 wrote:
Devourer is really irritating middle and I personally have a very difficult time with him even when against players far below my skill level. I dislike having to think about it so much and watch him so carefully for hook possibilities. I've also been hooked a few times by the most ridiculously and obviously shouldn't-be-hitting-me-hooks that I have a psychological fear of them. Good devourers will constantly pull the lane to try to get you in a position where you can't see uphill and he's in the fog, so you need to pull back. A ward in the middle on your opponent's hill does wonders against devo. You can either place it purely for use against devo or, for example, if you're legion you can place a ward on the left hellbourne middle ramp on the edge to see the rune + see about 1/2 of devo's middle lane, so you can get some bonus vision for dodging hooks + rune vision.
Heros like defiler, flint, SS etc are total trash against a good devourer. 0 escapes, 0 damage if forced to fight inside rot, shitty HP pools. Any ranged hero can "sort of" win with good harass but if you get hooked even ONCE you're done, there's literally nothing you can do. Heros with leaps like valk, hag, or with good disables like puppet, completely rape devo. Heros who can do a lot of melee range damage while standing their ground also rape devo, like DR, who can spam his Q for extra damage to harass + if he gets caught in rot just Q 3 times in 9 seconds and rape the devo. I think everyone knows that the best counter to dev is panda/pred/melee str mid. Flux imba too. Start punch dagger hp pot and rape. (Not being serious here... just making fun of Nome's guides. Such bad starting items always. Many melee heroes are ok vs dev mid, I think it's just that if they predict it and sidelane dev you're a little screwed). It is true that you're bad vs dev though, I've seen you lose defiler to legit 1650 dev players. We usually win those games later on anyways however. Also, that is my favorite ward spot. Show nested quote +
I always find it funny that people make fun of unconventional builds and proceed to lose to it, it's so boring to do the same builds every game because rarely are games the same.
It was strange, the other team questioned the deso but then my team's plague rider decided that the 35 minute vlad's after deso was an awful awful pickup. So most of the item choices in the game were team-criticisms, which was a pretty odd experience. I dunno, it kind of made sense to me but I don't ever play carries. Whenever I play a melee carry I pretty much flip a coin to determine when I want vlad's. Farming is pewpew boring to me. (Either way the bkb would've probably been a little better coming before vlad's rather than after. I rarely ever played dota and still find the dota names so much better for the most part). I find it really depends on the hero and lineup you're playing. Some heroes almost always have the same item builds while others are lot more flexible. (Gladiator is almost always shroud, behe eventually needs his blink, etc). The one that always bothers me is everyone playing tempest pk first in jungle. I do it sometimes but really his stat gain lets you do really different stuff and be fine, but people get really whiny if you have a 30 minute pk, shamans, steamboots instead of a 20 minute naked pk. As I understand it this is pretty much something that's exclusive to hon, and I've never really figured out why enigma is a solo sidelane hero and tempest is a jungle for 30 minutes hero. (I mean obviously a well-played tempest ganks more) Show nested quote +On June 29 2011 02:17 Judicator wrote:
Yo man, gotta impress strangers on the internet. If they go through the trouble to check if you're telling the truth, they're just nolife stalking losers anyway, fuck 'em, am I right?
On an unrelated note, got new job CEO'ing 10k/day sup? I once played an hour and forty minute pvz on andromeda in BW at the D+ level. The entire map was mined out and my opponent was building sunken colonies around the last mineral only. I asked my opponent how much he had and he said 4k. Watching the replay it was 34 minerals :/ I eventually won through dark archons and scouts, but I would've made less mineral efficient stuff had I thought he had less money.
dota players are whiny too, but in different ways.
also i notice that in general chinese dota pros think about the game differently than europeans and other foreigners who are much more like hon pros (though in general this is true for the dota scenes that came before ie SEA and russians). this is why you saw enigma solo side lane first in dota than in hon, but it doesnt happen much anymore for various reasons. also the reason is that the chinese team that loved to do that also loved midgame aggressive push/gank with a 4-1 carry or 3-2 gank-carry and carry and one of the ways to leverage an advantage for that was enigma.
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i have 2 accounts, a 1700 mmr i use to soloqueue mm, and a 1600 mmr i use to play with friends (who range from 1600 to even 800 :D the guy started not a long time ago, and learnt to play hon just through mm). i'm not good enough to solo win the games with my mates even if i explain them how we have to handle the match.
so, do i have any chance of playing a game with you guys? i mainly play on eu, got mic and everything. oh yeah, i usually crash once or twice each game even if my setup is fine, looks like the game is getting worse with every patch instead of getting fixed.
if you want to add me, look for ID feetfetish 
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On June 29 2011 21:48 rabidch wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2011 13:18 Nevuk wrote:On June 29 2011 09:32 Ganfei2 wrote:
Devourer is really irritating middle and I personally have a very difficult time with him even when against players far below my skill level. I dislike having to think about it so much and watch him so carefully for hook possibilities. I've also been hooked a few times by the most ridiculously and obviously shouldn't-be-hitting-me-hooks that I have a psychological fear of them. Good devourers will constantly pull the lane to try to get you in a position where you can't see uphill and he's in the fog, so you need to pull back. A ward in the middle on your opponent's hill does wonders against devo. You can either place it purely for use against devo or, for example, if you're legion you can place a ward on the left hellbourne middle ramp on the edge to see the rune + see about 1/2 of devo's middle lane, so you can get some bonus vision for dodging hooks + rune vision.
Heros like defiler, flint, SS etc are total trash against a good devourer. 0 escapes, 0 damage if forced to fight inside rot, shitty HP pools. Any ranged hero can "sort of" win with good harass but if you get hooked even ONCE you're done, there's literally nothing you can do. Heros with leaps like valk, hag, or with good disables like puppet, completely rape devo. Heros who can do a lot of melee range damage while standing their ground also rape devo, like DR, who can spam his Q for extra damage to harass + if he gets caught in rot just Q 3 times in 9 seconds and rape the devo. I think everyone knows that the best counter to dev is panda/pred/melee str mid. Flux imba too. Start punch dagger hp pot and rape. (Not being serious here... just making fun of Nome's guides. Such bad starting items always. Many melee heroes are ok vs dev mid, I think it's just that if they predict it and sidelane dev you're a little screwed). It is true that you're bad vs dev though, I've seen you lose defiler to legit 1650 dev players. We usually win those games later on anyways however. Also, that is my favorite ward spot.
I always find it funny that people make fun of unconventional builds and proceed to lose to it, it's so boring to do the same builds every game because rarely are games the same.
It was strange, the other team questioned the deso but then my team's plague rider decided that the 35 minute vlad's after deso was an awful awful pickup. So most of the item choices in the game were team-criticisms, which was a pretty odd experience. I dunno, it kind of made sense to me but I don't ever play carries. Whenever I play a melee carry I pretty much flip a coin to determine when I want vlad's. Farming is pewpew boring to me. (Either way the bkb would've probably been a little better coming before vlad's rather than after. I rarely ever played dota and still find the dota names so much better for the most part). I find it really depends on the hero and lineup you're playing. Some heroes almost always have the same item builds while others are lot more flexible. (Gladiator is almost always shroud, behe eventually needs his blink, etc). The one that always bothers me is everyone playing tempest pk first in jungle. I do it sometimes but really his stat gain lets you do really different stuff and be fine, but people get really whiny if you have a 30 minute pk, shamans, steamboots instead of a 20 minute naked pk. As I understand it this is pretty much something that's exclusive to hon, and I've never really figured out why enigma is a solo sidelane hero and tempest is a jungle for 30 minutes hero. (I mean obviously a well-played tempest ganks more) On June 29 2011 02:17 Judicator wrote:
Yo man, gotta impress strangers on the internet. If they go through the trouble to check if you're telling the truth, they're just nolife stalking losers anyway, fuck 'em, am I right?
On an unrelated note, got new job CEO'ing 10k/day sup? I once played an hour and forty minute pvz on andromeda in BW at the D+ level. The entire map was mined out and my opponent was building sunken colonies around the last mineral only. I asked my opponent how much he had and he said 4k. Watching the replay it was 34 minerals :/ I eventually won through dark archons and scouts, but I would've made less mineral efficient stuff had I thought he had less money. dota players are whiny too, but in different ways. also i notice that in general chinese dota pros think about the game differently than europeans and other foreigners who are much more like hon pros (though in general this is true for the dota scenes that came before ie SEA and russians). this is why you saw enigma solo side lane first in dota than in hon, but it doesnt happen much anymore for various reasons. also the reason is that the chinese team that loved to do that also loved midgame aggressive push/gank with a 4-1 carry or 3-2 gank-carry and carry and one of the ways to leverage an advantage for that was enigma.
Or you can think like Navi and just 5 man their lanes all day.
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On June 29 2011 21:48 rabidch wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2011 13:18 Nevuk wrote:On June 29 2011 09:32 Ganfei2 wrote:
Devourer is really irritating middle and I personally have a very difficult time with him even when against players far below my skill level. I dislike having to think about it so much and watch him so carefully for hook possibilities. I've also been hooked a few times by the most ridiculously and obviously shouldn't-be-hitting-me-hooks that I have a psychological fear of them. Good devourers will constantly pull the lane to try to get you in a position where you can't see uphill and he's in the fog, so you need to pull back. A ward in the middle on your opponent's hill does wonders against devo. You can either place it purely for use against devo or, for example, if you're legion you can place a ward on the left hellbourne middle ramp on the edge to see the rune + see about 1/2 of devo's middle lane, so you can get some bonus vision for dodging hooks + rune vision.
Heros like defiler, flint, SS etc are total trash against a good devourer. 0 escapes, 0 damage if forced to fight inside rot, shitty HP pools. Any ranged hero can "sort of" win with good harass but if you get hooked even ONCE you're done, there's literally nothing you can do. Heros with leaps like valk, hag, or with good disables like puppet, completely rape devo. Heros who can do a lot of melee range damage while standing their ground also rape devo, like DR, who can spam his Q for extra damage to harass + if he gets caught in rot just Q 3 times in 9 seconds and rape the devo. I think everyone knows that the best counter to dev is panda/pred/melee str mid. Flux imba too. Start punch dagger hp pot and rape. (Not being serious here... just making fun of Nome's guides. Such bad starting items always. Many melee heroes are ok vs dev mid, I think it's just that if they predict it and sidelane dev you're a little screwed). It is true that you're bad vs dev though, I've seen you lose defiler to legit 1650 dev players. We usually win those games later on anyways however. Also, that is my favorite ward spot.
I always find it funny that people make fun of unconventional builds and proceed to lose to it, it's so boring to do the same builds every game because rarely are games the same.
It was strange, the other team questioned the deso but then my team's plague rider decided that the 35 minute vlad's after deso was an awful awful pickup. So most of the item choices in the game were team-criticisms, which was a pretty odd experience. I dunno, it kind of made sense to me but I don't ever play carries. Whenever I play a melee carry I pretty much flip a coin to determine when I want vlad's. Farming is pewpew boring to me. (Either way the bkb would've probably been a little better coming before vlad's rather than after. I rarely ever played dota and still find the dota names so much better for the most part). I find it really depends on the hero and lineup you're playing. Some heroes almost always have the same item builds while others are lot more flexible. (Gladiator is almost always shroud, behe eventually needs his blink, etc). The one that always bothers me is everyone playing tempest pk first in jungle. I do it sometimes but really his stat gain lets you do really different stuff and be fine, but people get really whiny if you have a 30 minute pk, shamans, steamboots instead of a 20 minute naked pk. As I understand it this is pretty much something that's exclusive to hon, and I've never really figured out why enigma is a solo sidelane hero and tempest is a jungle for 30 minutes hero. (I mean obviously a well-played tempest ganks more) On June 29 2011 02:17 Judicator wrote:
Yo man, gotta impress strangers on the internet. If they go through the trouble to check if you're telling the truth, they're just nolife stalking losers anyway, fuck 'em, am I right?
On an unrelated note, got new job CEO'ing 10k/day sup? I once played an hour and forty minute pvz on andromeda in BW at the D+ level. The entire map was mined out and my opponent was building sunken colonies around the last mineral only. I asked my opponent how much he had and he said 4k. Watching the replay it was 34 minerals :/ I eventually won through dark archons and scouts, but I would've made less mineral efficient stuff had I thought he had less money. dota players are whiny too, but in different ways. also i notice that in general chinese dota pros think about the game differently than europeans and other foreigners who are much more like hon pros (though in general this is true for the dota scenes that came before ie SEA and russians). this is why you saw enigma solo side lane first in dota than in hon, but it doesnt happen much anymore for various reasons. also the reason is that the chinese team that loved to do that also loved midgame aggressive push/gank with a 4-1 carry or 3-2 gank-carry and carry and one of the ways to leverage an advantage for that was enigma.
Its mostly because Chinese trilanes (back when they were popular), were so much more brutally efficient 3v1 that the concern was simply receiving a non-zero amount of exp, for which the only 3 heroes that can really guarantee that are engima, lich, and CG, and maybe weaver, everything else just dies so utterly terribly that they often just didn't both with the 3v1ing
+dgc's engima is godly
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On June 29 2011 20:51 Sm3agol wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2011 13:18 Nevuk wrote:On June 29 2011 09:32 Ganfei2 wrote:
Devourer is really irritating middle and I personally have a very difficult time with him even when against players far below my skill level. I dislike having to think about it so much and watch him so carefully for hook possibilities. I've also been hooked a few times by the most ridiculously and obviously shouldn't-be-hitting-me-hooks that I have a psychological fear of them. Good devourers will constantly pull the lane to try to get you in a position where you can't see uphill and he's in the fog, so you need to pull back. A ward in the middle on your opponent's hill does wonders against devo. You can either place it purely for use against devo or, for example, if you're legion you can place a ward on the left hellbourne middle ramp on the edge to see the rune + see about 1/2 of devo's middle lane, so you can get some bonus vision for dodging hooks + rune vision.
Heros like defiler, flint, SS etc are total trash against a good devourer. 0 escapes, 0 damage if forced to fight inside rot, shitty HP pools. Any ranged hero can "sort of" win with good harass but if you get hooked even ONCE you're done, there's literally nothing you can do. Heros with leaps like valk, hag, or with good disables like puppet, completely rape devo. Heros who can do a lot of melee range damage while standing their ground also rape devo, like DR, who can spam his Q for extra damage to harass + if he gets caught in rot just Q 3 times in 9 seconds and rape the devo. I think everyone knows that the best counter to dev is panda/pred/melee str mid. Flux imba too. Start punch dagger hp pot and rape.
(Not being serious here... just making fun of Nome's guides. Such bad starting items always. Many melee heroes are ok vs dev mid, I think it's just that if they predict it and sidelane dev you're a little screwed).It is true that you're bad vs dev though, I've seen you lose defiler to legit 1650 dev players. We usually win those games later on anyways however. Also, that is my favorite ward spot.
I always find it funny that people make fun of unconventional builds and proceed to lose to it, it's so boring to do the same builds every game because rarely are games the same.
It was strange, the other team questioned the deso but then my team's plague rider decided that the 35 minute vlad's after deso was an awful awful pickup. So most of the item choices in the game were team-criticisms, which was a pretty odd experience. I dunno, it kind of made sense to me but I don't ever play carries. Whenever I play a melee carry I pretty much flip a coin to determine when I want vlad's. Farming is pewpew boring to me. (Either way the bkb would've probably been a little better coming before vlad's rather than after. I rarely ever played dota and still find the dota names so much better for the most part). I find it really depends on the hero and lineup you're playing. Some heroes almost always have the same item builds while others are lot more flexible. (Gladiator is almost always shroud, behe eventually needs his blink, etc). The one that always bothers me is everyone playing tempest pk first in jungle. I do it sometimes but really his stat gain lets you do really different stuff and be fine, but people get really whiny if you have a 30 minute pk, shamans, steamboots instead of a 20 minute naked pk. As I understand it this is pretty much something that's exclusive to hon, and I've never really figured out why enigma is a solo sidelane hero and tempest is a jungle for 30 minutes hero. (I mean obviously a well-played tempest ganks more) On June 29 2011 02:17 Judicator wrote:
Yo man, gotta impress strangers on the internet. If they go through the trouble to check if you're telling the truth, they're just nolife stalking losers anyway, fuck 'em, am I right?
On an unrelated note, got new job CEO'ing 10k/day sup? I once played an hour and forty minute pvz on andromeda in BW at the D+ level. The entire map was mined out and my opponent was building sunken colonies around the last mineral only. I asked my opponent how much he had and he said 4k. Watching the replay it was 34 minerals :/ I eventually won through dark archons and scouts, but I would've made less mineral efficient stuff had I thought he had less money. So....now I need to know.....as a complete newbie, what guides do I need to be using? I try and follow the guide showed in the shop most of the time because I literally have no idea, and I've never been raged at for following said guide, so what is the problem? Sometimes I notice the early/mid game recommended items aren't right because they don't transition into anything later, but other than that, I don't know what I should be getting so I just follow the default guide, which is nome's usually, I think.
Go check out prodex if you really have no idea. I haven't read them all but the ones I've seen are pretty good. The problem with any static build of course is that it's almost never going to be 'perfect' but at least it's not going to be terrible.
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On June 29 2011 20:51 Sm3agol wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2011 13:18 Nevuk wrote:On June 29 2011 09:32 Ganfei2 wrote:
Devourer is really irritating middle and I personally have a very difficult time with him even when against players far below my skill level. I dislike having to think about it so much and watch him so carefully for hook possibilities. I've also been hooked a few times by the most ridiculously and obviously shouldn't-be-hitting-me-hooks that I have a psychological fear of them. Good devourers will constantly pull the lane to try to get you in a position where you can't see uphill and he's in the fog, so you need to pull back. A ward in the middle on your opponent's hill does wonders against devo. You can either place it purely for use against devo or, for example, if you're legion you can place a ward on the left hellbourne middle ramp on the edge to see the rune + see about 1/2 of devo's middle lane, so you can get some bonus vision for dodging hooks + rune vision.
Heros like defiler, flint, SS etc are total trash against a good devourer. 0 escapes, 0 damage if forced to fight inside rot, shitty HP pools. Any ranged hero can "sort of" win with good harass but if you get hooked even ONCE you're done, there's literally nothing you can do. Heros with leaps like valk, hag, or with good disables like puppet, completely rape devo. Heros who can do a lot of melee range damage while standing their ground also rape devo, like DR, who can spam his Q for extra damage to harass + if he gets caught in rot just Q 3 times in 9 seconds and rape the devo. I think everyone knows that the best counter to dev is panda/pred/melee str mid. Flux imba too. Start punch dagger hp pot and rape.
(Not being serious here... just making fun of Nome's guides. Such bad starting items always. Many melee heroes are ok vs dev mid, I think it's just that if they predict it and sidelane dev you're a little screwed).It is true that you're bad vs dev though, I've seen you lose defiler to legit 1650 dev players. We usually win those games later on anyways however. Also, that is my favorite ward spot.
I always find it funny that people make fun of unconventional builds and proceed to lose to it, it's so boring to do the same builds every game because rarely are games the same.
It was strange, the other team questioned the deso but then my team's plague rider decided that the 35 minute vlad's after deso was an awful awful pickup. So most of the item choices in the game were team-criticisms, which was a pretty odd experience. I dunno, it kind of made sense to me but I don't ever play carries. Whenever I play a melee carry I pretty much flip a coin to determine when I want vlad's. Farming is pewpew boring to me. (Either way the bkb would've probably been a little better coming before vlad's rather than after. I rarely ever played dota and still find the dota names so much better for the most part). I find it really depends on the hero and lineup you're playing. Some heroes almost always have the same item builds while others are lot more flexible. (Gladiator is almost always shroud, behe eventually needs his blink, etc). The one that always bothers me is everyone playing tempest pk first in jungle. I do it sometimes but really his stat gain lets you do really different stuff and be fine, but people get really whiny if you have a 30 minute pk, shamans, steamboots instead of a 20 minute naked pk. As I understand it this is pretty much something that's exclusive to hon, and I've never really figured out why enigma is a solo sidelane hero and tempest is a jungle for 30 minutes hero. (I mean obviously a well-played tempest ganks more) On June 29 2011 02:17 Judicator wrote:
Yo man, gotta impress strangers on the internet. If they go through the trouble to check if you're telling the truth, they're just nolife stalking losers anyway, fuck 'em, am I right?
On an unrelated note, got new job CEO'ing 10k/day sup? I once played an hour and forty minute pvz on andromeda in BW at the D+ level. The entire map was mined out and my opponent was building sunken colonies around the last mineral only. I asked my opponent how much he had and he said 4k. Watching the replay it was 34 minerals :/ I eventually won through dark archons and scouts, but I would've made less mineral efficient stuff had I thought he had less money. So....now I need to know.....as a complete newbie, what guides do I need to be using? I try and follow the guide showed in the shop most of the time because I literally have no idea, and I've never been raged at for following said guide, so what is the problem? Sometimes I notice the early/mid game recommended items aren't right because they don't transition into anything later, but other than that, I don't know what I should be getting so I just follow the default guide, which is nome's usually, I think.
At a level of play where you don't really know what you should be going instead, it shouldn't matter much at all.
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On June 29 2011 23:57 Kupon3ss wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2011 21:48 rabidch wrote:On June 29 2011 13:18 Nevuk wrote:On June 29 2011 09:32 Ganfei2 wrote:
Devourer is really irritating middle and I personally have a very difficult time with him even when against players far below my skill level. I dislike having to think about it so much and watch him so carefully for hook possibilities. I've also been hooked a few times by the most ridiculously and obviously shouldn't-be-hitting-me-hooks that I have a psychological fear of them. Good devourers will constantly pull the lane to try to get you in a position where you can't see uphill and he's in the fog, so you need to pull back. A ward in the middle on your opponent's hill does wonders against devo. You can either place it purely for use against devo or, for example, if you're legion you can place a ward on the left hellbourne middle ramp on the edge to see the rune + see about 1/2 of devo's middle lane, so you can get some bonus vision for dodging hooks + rune vision.
Heros like defiler, flint, SS etc are total trash against a good devourer. 0 escapes, 0 damage if forced to fight inside rot, shitty HP pools. Any ranged hero can "sort of" win with good harass but if you get hooked even ONCE you're done, there's literally nothing you can do. Heros with leaps like valk, hag, or with good disables like puppet, completely rape devo. Heros who can do a lot of melee range damage while standing their ground also rape devo, like DR, who can spam his Q for extra damage to harass + if he gets caught in rot just Q 3 times in 9 seconds and rape the devo. I think everyone knows that the best counter to dev is panda/pred/melee str mid. Flux imba too. Start punch dagger hp pot and rape. (Not being serious here... just making fun of Nome's guides. Such bad starting items always. Many melee heroes are ok vs dev mid, I think it's just that if they predict it and sidelane dev you're a little screwed). It is true that you're bad vs dev though, I've seen you lose defiler to legit 1650 dev players. We usually win those games later on anyways however. Also, that is my favorite ward spot.
I always find it funny that people make fun of unconventional builds and proceed to lose to it, it's so boring to do the same builds every game because rarely are games the same.
It was strange, the other team questioned the deso but then my team's plague rider decided that the 35 minute vlad's after deso was an awful awful pickup. So most of the item choices in the game were team-criticisms, which was a pretty odd experience. I dunno, it kind of made sense to me but I don't ever play carries. Whenever I play a melee carry I pretty much flip a coin to determine when I want vlad's. Farming is pewpew boring to me. (Either way the bkb would've probably been a little better coming before vlad's rather than after. I rarely ever played dota and still find the dota names so much better for the most part). I find it really depends on the hero and lineup you're playing. Some heroes almost always have the same item builds while others are lot more flexible. (Gladiator is almost always shroud, behe eventually needs his blink, etc). The one that always bothers me is everyone playing tempest pk first in jungle. I do it sometimes but really his stat gain lets you do really different stuff and be fine, but people get really whiny if you have a 30 minute pk, shamans, steamboots instead of a 20 minute naked pk. As I understand it this is pretty much something that's exclusive to hon, and I've never really figured out why enigma is a solo sidelane hero and tempest is a jungle for 30 minutes hero. (I mean obviously a well-played tempest ganks more) On June 29 2011 02:17 Judicator wrote:
Yo man, gotta impress strangers on the internet. If they go through the trouble to check if you're telling the truth, they're just nolife stalking losers anyway, fuck 'em, am I right?
On an unrelated note, got new job CEO'ing 10k/day sup? I once played an hour and forty minute pvz on andromeda in BW at the D+ level. The entire map was mined out and my opponent was building sunken colonies around the last mineral only. I asked my opponent how much he had and he said 4k. Watching the replay it was 34 minerals :/ I eventually won through dark archons and scouts, but I would've made less mineral efficient stuff had I thought he had less money. dota players are whiny too, but in different ways. also i notice that in general chinese dota pros think about the game differently than europeans and other foreigners who are much more like hon pros (though in general this is true for the dota scenes that came before ie SEA and russians). this is why you saw enigma solo side lane first in dota than in hon, but it doesnt happen much anymore for various reasons. also the reason is that the chinese team that loved to do that also loved midgame aggressive push/gank with a 4-1 carry or 3-2 gank-carry and carry and one of the ways to leverage an advantage for that was enigma. Its mostly because Chinese trilanes (back when they were popular), were so much more brutally efficient 3v1 that the concern was simply receiving a non-zero amount of exp, for which the only 3 heroes that can really guarantee that are engima, lich, and CG, and maybe weaver, everything else just dies so utterly terribly that they often just didn't both with the 3v1ing +dgc's engima is godly
what?
clockwerk goblin does not get guaranteed exp. just reduced; he's still terrible against strong trilanes.
the nv.cn trilane strategy that eventually succeeded did not have a goal of causing non-zero amount of exp (it was merely a side effect) but to play aggressive, rack up kills, and destroy towers while creating space for your own carries to farm. if you dont understand this you didnt understand the era, because its become a huge part of dota metagame, this is one of the reasons on the emphasis of midgame strength and why heroes like veno, ench, windrunner, batrider are so commonly picked. the correct heroes that were perfect for the job back then was enigma, broodmother and to a lesser extent veno.
lich and weaver did not come into play until after 6.71 after which lanes started to become less trilane oriented (unless to rack kills and push) and more back to a roaming setup, these heroes as well as others actually pretty much caused the death of them with dark ritual lane control and weaver being near unkillable and having bugs to stall lanes.
On June 29 2011 23:32 Judicator wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2011 21:48 rabidch wrote:On June 29 2011 13:18 Nevuk wrote:On June 29 2011 09:32 Ganfei2 wrote:
Devourer is really irritating middle and I personally have a very difficult time with him even when against players far below my skill level. I dislike having to think about it so much and watch him so carefully for hook possibilities. I've also been hooked a few times by the most ridiculously and obviously shouldn't-be-hitting-me-hooks that I have a psychological fear of them. Good devourers will constantly pull the lane to try to get you in a position where you can't see uphill and he's in the fog, so you need to pull back. A ward in the middle on your opponent's hill does wonders against devo. You can either place it purely for use against devo or, for example, if you're legion you can place a ward on the left hellbourne middle ramp on the edge to see the rune + see about 1/2 of devo's middle lane, so you can get some bonus vision for dodging hooks + rune vision.
Heros like defiler, flint, SS etc are total trash against a good devourer. 0 escapes, 0 damage if forced to fight inside rot, shitty HP pools. Any ranged hero can "sort of" win with good harass but if you get hooked even ONCE you're done, there's literally nothing you can do. Heros with leaps like valk, hag, or with good disables like puppet, completely rape devo. Heros who can do a lot of melee range damage while standing their ground also rape devo, like DR, who can spam his Q for extra damage to harass + if he gets caught in rot just Q 3 times in 9 seconds and rape the devo. I think everyone knows that the best counter to dev is panda/pred/melee str mid. Flux imba too. Start punch dagger hp pot and rape. (Not being serious here... just making fun of Nome's guides. Such bad starting items always. Many melee heroes are ok vs dev mid, I think it's just that if they predict it and sidelane dev you're a little screwed). It is true that you're bad vs dev though, I've seen you lose defiler to legit 1650 dev players. We usually win those games later on anyways however. Also, that is my favorite ward spot.
I always find it funny that people make fun of unconventional builds and proceed to lose to it, it's so boring to do the same builds every game because rarely are games the same.
It was strange, the other team questioned the deso but then my team's plague rider decided that the 35 minute vlad's after deso was an awful awful pickup. So most of the item choices in the game were team-criticisms, which was a pretty odd experience. I dunno, it kind of made sense to me but I don't ever play carries. Whenever I play a melee carry I pretty much flip a coin to determine when I want vlad's. Farming is pewpew boring to me. (Either way the bkb would've probably been a little better coming before vlad's rather than after. I rarely ever played dota and still find the dota names so much better for the most part). I find it really depends on the hero and lineup you're playing. Some heroes almost always have the same item builds while others are lot more flexible. (Gladiator is almost always shroud, behe eventually needs his blink, etc). The one that always bothers me is everyone playing tempest pk first in jungle. I do it sometimes but really his stat gain lets you do really different stuff and be fine, but people get really whiny if you have a 30 minute pk, shamans, steamboots instead of a 20 minute naked pk. As I understand it this is pretty much something that's exclusive to hon, and I've never really figured out why enigma is a solo sidelane hero and tempest is a jungle for 30 minutes hero. (I mean obviously a well-played tempest ganks more) On June 29 2011 02:17 Judicator wrote:
Yo man, gotta impress strangers on the internet. If they go through the trouble to check if you're telling the truth, they're just nolife stalking losers anyway, fuck 'em, am I right?
On an unrelated note, got new job CEO'ing 10k/day sup? I once played an hour and forty minute pvz on andromeda in BW at the D+ level. The entire map was mined out and my opponent was building sunken colonies around the last mineral only. I asked my opponent how much he had and he said 4k. Watching the replay it was 34 minerals :/ I eventually won through dark archons and scouts, but I would've made less mineral efficient stuff had I thought he had less money. dota players are whiny too, but in different ways. also i notice that in general chinese dota pros think about the game differently than europeans and other foreigners who are much more like hon pros (though in general this is true for the dota scenes that came before ie SEA and russians). this is why you saw enigma solo side lane first in dota than in hon, but it doesnt happen much anymore for various reasons. also the reason is that the chinese team that loved to do that also loved midgame aggressive push/gank with a 4-1 carry or 3-2 gank-carry and carry and one of the ways to leverage an advantage for that was enigma. Or you can think like Navi and just 5 man their lanes all day.
you mean DTS? na'vis still untested
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On June 29 2011 18:38 Ethenielle wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2011 15:11 Torte de Lini wrote:
I never understand why people insult their own allies on the team.
Whenever I soloQ, I get the loudest people who feel the need to tell others they suck, but need to be reminded that we all have the generally same PSR.
It just boggles and baffles my mind. A bit over 1800 here and I get queued with 1600s quite often. About 80% of the time this 1600 guy proceeds to instapick some retarded hardcarry a la magebane/night hound and readies up, forcing me as pink to pick some sort of support. I then have to sit there watching him miss creep kills. And die. It makes me angry. I imagine other people have similar experiences.
Yep, except I'm Magebane (Random) and the support wants me to fucking fight 1v3.
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On June 29 2011 15:11 Torte de Lini wrote:
I never understand why people insult their own allies on the team.
Whenever I soloQ, I get the loudest people who feel the need to tell others they suck, but need to be reminded that we all have the generally same PSR.
It just boggles and baffles my mind.
It's sad, really... I normally play with a couple of friends, we're PSR is normally around 1300-1400 or something... But DAYUM! those guys are still so fucking pro down there I tell you.
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I play with a lot of TL'ers and they have trouble carrying me because I'm not as aware of the situation as them (one of my many problems) or I simply just miss key points (and sometimes I don't).
So I eventually SoloQ when I can't stand the unbearable guilt. I always feel better after though, knowing that we all sucked and someone raged for me.
Maybe I'll just Queue with two people, me and a friend so we get 1400 psr
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I got people to play hon at a lan today, they did not like it :| :| :|
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EPT
