[HoN/DotA] Let's Play~!! - Page 1361

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Torte de Lini

Germany38463 Posts

June 29 2011 17:46 GMT

#27201

On June 30 2011 02:43 xZiGGY wrote:
I got people to play hon at a lan today, they did not like it :| :| :|

With or without meds?

Nevuk

United States16280 Posts

June 29 2011 18:36 GMT

#27202

On June 29 2011 20:51 Sm3agol wrote:

Show nested quote +

On June 29 2011 13:18 Nevuk wrote:

On June 29 2011 09:32 Ganfei2 wrote:

Devourer is really irritating middle and I personally have a very difficult time with him even when against players far below my skill level. I dislike having to think about it so much and watch him so carefully for hook possibilities. I've also been hooked a few times by the most ridiculously and obviously shouldn't-be-hitting-me-hooks that I have a psychological fear of them. Good devourers will constantly pull the lane to try to get you in a position where you can't see uphill and he's in the fog, so you need to pull back. A ward in the middle on your opponent's hill does wonders against devo. You can either place it purely for use against devo or, for example, if you're legion you can place a ward on the left hellbourne middle ramp on the edge to see the rune + see about 1/2 of devo's middle lane, so you can get some bonus vision for dodging hooks + rune vision.

Heros like defiler, flint, SS etc are total trash against a good devourer. 0 escapes, 0 damage if forced to fight inside rot, shitty HP pools. Any ranged hero can "sort of" win with good harass but if you get hooked even ONCE you're done, there's literally nothing you can do. Heros with leaps like valk, hag, or with good disables like puppet, completely rape devo. Heros who can do a lot of melee range damage while standing their ground also rape devo, like DR, who can spam his Q for extra damage to harass + if he gets caught in rot just Q 3 times in 9 seconds and rape the devo.

I think everyone knows that the best counter to dev is panda/pred/melee str mid. Flux imba too. Start punch dagger hp pot and rape.

(Not being serious here... just making fun of Nome's guides. Such bad starting items always. Many melee heroes are ok vs dev mid, I think it's just that if they predict it and sidelane dev you're a little screwed).

It is true that you're bad vs dev though, I've seen you lose defiler to legit 1650 dev players. We usually win those games later on anyways however. Also, that is my favorite ward spot.

I always find it funny that people make fun of unconventional builds and proceed to lose to it, it's so boring to do the same builds every game because rarely are games the same.

It was strange, the other team questioned the deso but then my team's plague rider decided that the 35 minute vlad's after deso was an awful awful pickup. So most of the item choices in the game were team-criticisms, which was a pretty odd experience. I dunno, it kind of made sense to me but I don't ever play carries. Whenever I play a melee carry I pretty much flip a coin to determine when I want vlad's. Farming is pewpew boring to me. (Either way the bkb would've probably been a little better coming before vlad's rather than after. I rarely ever played dota and still find the dota names so much better for the most part).

I find it really depends on the hero and lineup you're playing. Some heroes almost always have the same item builds while others are lot more flexible. (Gladiator is almost always shroud, behe eventually needs his blink, etc). The one that always bothers me is everyone playing tempest pk first in jungle. I do it sometimes but really his stat gain lets you do really different stuff and be fine, but people get really whiny if you have a 30 minute pk, shamans, steamboots instead of a 20 minute naked pk. As I understand it this is pretty much something that's exclusive to hon, and I've never really figured out why enigma is a solo sidelane hero and tempest is a jungle for 30 minutes hero. (I mean obviously a well-played tempest ganks more)

On June 29 2011 02:17 Judicator wrote:
Yo man, gotta impress strangers on the internet. If they go through the trouble to check if you're telling the truth, they're just nolife stalking losers anyway, fuck 'em, am I right?
On an unrelated note, got new job CEO'ing 10k/day sup?

I once played an hour and forty minute pvz on andromeda in BW at the D+ level. The entire map was mined out and my opponent was building sunken colonies around the last mineral only. I asked my opponent how much he had and he said 4k. Watching the replay it was 34 minerals :/ I eventually won through dark archons and scouts, but I would've made less mineral efficient stuff had I thought he had less money.

So....now I need to know.....as a complete newbie, what guides do I need to be using? I try and follow the guide showed in the shop most of the time because I literally have no idea, and I've never been raged at for following said guide, so what is the problem? Sometimes I notice the early/mid game recommended items aren't right because they don't transition into anything later, but other than that, I don't know what I should be getting so I just follow the default guide, which is nome's usually, I think.

Some of the guides on the forums are ok, and some of the alternate guides are also ok. Just the default ones are almost always horrible. I have the new shop disabled so I rarely see them, everygame I always hear someone make fun of the recommended items for their hero. Anything that goes punchdagger hp pot is really dumb for the reason that it's horridly inefficient. (I'll get back to this later).

There are some pretty basic starting items you can pretty much always get on a hero and be fine with. Generically, your basic items are 2 forms of regen - be it 6 tangos / 1 tango 1 hp pot, it's your preference (the latter is generally superior. One hp pot heals more than 3 tangos, but tangos let you stay in lane while hp pot forces you out and can be removed). 2 hp pots is typically bad. From there you have ~400 gold to play with. It really comes down to preference, experimenting around some with starting items is fun.

Pretty much always I do this on support heroes : 1 hp pot, 3x rune of blights, 2 minor totems, 2x mana pots. Then if you're laning 2-1-2 the support playing in the jungle lane (bot for legion top for hb) buys courier, the one in the other lane buys the wards. The reason for this is that you use the second ward to block the pull camp. Even if I'm not playing a support hero I will try and buy at least one ward for the mid (on the rune) if none have been bought (which you can see by just waiting in the fountain until people start to move out, if you have 4 wards available then your mid is going to have a rough time). (I sacrifice my totems for the ward typically. and it REALLY hurts, especially on Glacius)

I'm not exactly qualified to talk about other types of heroes at a higher level of play, but at low levels almost every hero you can do fine going 2x the +3 main attribute of the hero, two totems, hppot+3 tangos (runes of the blight). Melee heroes are usually an exception to this rule, since shield is needed on so many.

This is why the arachna starting items are so bad - 2x duck boots, 2 totems, and an hp pot and a tango is +8 to agility (so +8 dmg), +2 to all stats. A hero with this build will always beat a hero that went the +9 dmg punch dagger if they purely autoattack each other (the agility adds armor, dmg, attack speed, the totems add 38 hp), AND you have double the regen of the Nome build. The duck boots can be turned into SS rings or sold (I almost always sell them, it leaves you 150 gold behind the Nome build but you will keep them on yourself until you run out of slots anyways, which can be a while.) In addition sometimes it's better to go steamboots instead of phase, and then you just have a punch dagger in your inventory. Arachna's really low hp probably makes steamboots better for newer players than phaseboots.

Notable exceptions to these starting items are junglers, melee initiators/roamers, heroes who don't really use mana.

As for what to get after these items, only experience can really tell you. Just learn what items are useless (codex) and which are extremely cost-efficient (helm of the black legion on melee, power supply, tablet, pk, all are examples.)

The last game I solo queued I wrote up last page, I was 1875 and the next closest person to me on my team was 1799 with the bottom being like 1760. Nothing too bad, but I once played against Yoda during solo queue (he was on a 1970 mmr smurf, knew it from his stream) and he was grouped with 4 1650s from solo queue and got +1/-1 for the game. He was not happy about it.

Roflhaxx

Korea (South)1244 Posts

June 29 2011 18:57 GMT

#27203

Why is this thread even called HoN/DotA? it's filled with HoN people :S

Corr

Denmark796 Posts

June 29 2011 19:00 GMT

#27204

Where's the love for steamboots? If they were still +10 in DotA I'd use them on 9/10 heroes as everyone used to :p

r33k

Italy3402 Posts

June 29 2011 19:21 GMT

#27205

On June 30 2011 03:57 Roflhaxx wrote:
Why is this thread even called HoN/DotA? it's filled with HoN people :S

Not enough people from third world countries.

Ganfei2

473 Posts

June 29 2011 20:37 GMT

#27206

If you get steamboots you're forced to use int steamboots to get all-blue-inventory, so ghost marchers are usually better.

Ghost marcher, charged hammer, frostwulf, nullstone, geo bane (this one is iffy, it's purple really)

JeeJee

Canada5652 Posts

June 29 2011 20:43 GMT

#27207

On June 30 2011 05:37 Ganfei2 wrote:
If you get steamboots you're forced to use int steamboots to get all-blue-inventory, so ghost marchers are usually better.

Ghost marcher, charged hammer, frostwulf, nullstone, geo bane (this one is iffy, it's purple really)

real men go for an all-red inventory

str treads, heart, crit stick, vlads, basher, deso, other options include silence stick, bloodstone, etc.

Ganfei2

473 Posts

June 29 2011 20:57 GMT

#27208

All red inventory is nice but in HON there are an overabundance of blue items and not enough items of similar colors to make anything but an all blue inventory if going for a monochromatic theme.

There are also a LOT of purple/blue portrait heros. I strive for a top 5 composed of purple/blue heros with purple/blue items.

I'm just looking through the items now and it's impossible to make anything but all blue unless you want like all-sorta-yellow with nomes, push tablet, hellflower, refresher, but that's nowhere near as good.

Rift shard, basher, heart, str steamboots, deso makes a pretty nice almost-all-red inventory. If we bend the rules hellflower isn't a bad 6th reddish item, although you could always just get 2 rifts for ultra red.

JeeJee

Canada5652 Posts

June 29 2011 21:33 GMT

#27209

On June 30 2011 05:57 Ganfei2 wrote:
All red inventory is nice but in HON there are an overabundance of blue items and not enough items of similar colors to make anything but an all blue inventory if going for a monochromatic theme.

There are also a LOT of purple/blue portrait heros. I strive for a top 5 composed of purple/blue heros with purple/blue items.

I'm just looking through the items now and it's impossible to make anything but all blue unless you want like all-sorta-yellow with nomes, push tablet, hellflower, refresher, but that's nowhere near as good.

Rift shard, basher, heart, str steamboots, deso makes a pretty nice almost-all-red inventory. If we bend the rules hellflower isn't a bad 6th reddish item, although you could always just get 2 rifts for ultra red.

Here's how you do an all-yellow/gold/whatever inventory

bkb, radiance, 4x rapier

you could try all green..

talisman, hotbl, wingbow, agi treads, hmm.. power supply/glowstone?
np

Jayme

United States5866 Posts

June 29 2011 21:46 GMT

#27210

On June 29 2011 15:43 TheTester wrote:
Flint is a terrible mid - really bad base damage, no escapes, dies when out of position to like anything.

Hag is weak too. My favorite is to pick fayde against hag because cull is either free or gives you mana back @ lvl 3-4 if you hit hag/ranged creep, so you can stun/cull to harass and then kill her with ult early on. Conveniently scream range = stun range.

And you never want to see a fayde get big early on ;o

The hell is this nonsense? Hag is a pretty strong mid. Yes she has obvious counters like BH and Fayde I guess but to say Hag is weak is a joke. She's an excellent rune controller and can initiate ganks on the side line with such speed that only Dr Repulsor can match.

I don't like Flint mid because he can't leave the lane to do shit. He's really rather useless until he gets some farm on him.

Yesterday I had an Arachna telling me how bad my build was on MQ when he got a 48 minute Mock, for what reason I have no idea. Why on earth would anyone think Mock was a good idea at 48? On Arachna....

Ganfei2

473 Posts

June 29 2011 21:53 GMT

#27211

lol hag is a weak mid, she gets raped by almost everyone, her only strength is runes and burst aka after getting past 1800 you're rarely going to win mid through laning and you need a good team to get your farm going...if you watch higher level games have you noticed that hag never wins 1v1 unless he gets all the runes and they're all illusions/dds? What the hero does well is move to gank sidelanes, but can't do it that well alone unless your team has the brains to play properly. AFTER she gets a few kills then she can start snowballing. Everytime a hag snowballs in a higher level game it's because she gets 5 kills in early and can use that to get going. Alternatively you CAN just sit there and farm really well/forever with scream, but it's underutilizing the hero's potential in a team game. In pubs farming with hag is often better than ganking past the early game.

Flint is only a weak mid if you're composing the team around mid ganking. Also, he's not weak without items, flare is awesome and it's also AOE with a slow, and his ult does a lot of damage. He can flare twice in 10 seconds or whatever + an ult, that's like 600 damage that could potentially each every hero + a 266 lvl 1 damage nuke with huge range. That's why he's trilane material, the AOE on flare + vision it gives.

FliedLice

Germany7494 Posts

June 29 2011 21:57 GMT

#27212

Today I decided that Empath is the most fun hero to play... The wall is just awesome.