• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 05:12
CEST 11:12
KST 18:12
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL20] Ro24 Preview Pt1: Runway132v2 & SC: Evo Complete: Weekend Double Feature3Team Liquid Map Contest #21 - Presented by Monster Energy9uThermal's 2v2 Tour: $15,000 Main Event18Serral wins EWC 202549
Community News
Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris12Weekly Cups (Aug 11-17): MaxPax triples again!13Weekly Cups (Aug 4-10): MaxPax wins a triple6SC2's Safe House 2 - October 18 & 195Weekly Cups (Jul 28-Aug 3): herO doubles up6
StarCraft 2
General
Hire a Trusted Full-Service Digital Agency in Luck Geoff 'iNcontroL' Robinson has passed away RSL Revival patreon money discussion thread Weekly Cups (Aug 11-17): MaxPax triples again! What mix of new and old maps do you want in the next 1v1 ladder pool? (SC2) :
Tourneys
Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris Monday Nights Weeklies Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) $5,100+ SEL Season 2 Championship (SC: Evo) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 487 Think Fast Mutation # 486 Watch the Skies Mutation # 485 Death from Below Mutation # 484 Magnetic Pull
Brood War
General
Flash Announces (and Retracts) Hiatus From ASL Maps with Neutral Command Centers Victoria gamers [ASL20] Ro24 Preview Pt1: Runway How do the new Battle.net ranks translate?
Tourneys
[ASL20] Ro24 Group A [ASL20] Ro24 Group B Small VOD Thread 2.0 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Fighting Spirit mining rates [G] Mineral Boosting Muta micro map competition
Other Games
General Games
Dawn of War IV General RTS Discussion Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI
Fan Clubs
INnoVation Fan Club SKT1 Classic Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
High temperatures on bridge(s) Gtx660 graphics card replacement Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment"
TL Community
The Automated Ban List TeamLiquid Team Shirt On Sale
Blogs
Breaking the Meta: Non-Stand…
TrAiDoS
INDEPENDIENTE LA CTM
XenOsky
[Girl blog} My fema…
artosisisthebest
Sharpening the Filtration…
frozenclaw
ASL S20 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2887 users

[HoN/DotA] Let's Play~!! - Page 1330

Forum Index > General Games
Post a Reply
Prev 1 1328 1329 1330 1331 1332 1664 Next
rabidch
Profile Joined January 2010
United States20289 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-08 09:27:02
June 08 2011 09:26 GMT
#26581
On June 08 2011 11:27 don_kyuhote wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 08 2011 11:25 tube wrote:
nobody ever in teamspeak anymore

Omgirok and his gang are on a cruise to Mexico or something.

drug smuggling etc.



On June 08 2011 18:24 GhostKorean wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 08 2011 18:07 Alur wrote:
On June 07 2011 06:04 GhostKorean wrote:
I've heard about it but is it any good? Sounds like it requires too much teamwork to get any enjoyment out of it

Not really, depending on your definition of the word, I find that it's more about players performing well individually. But I do get alot of enjoyment out of it regardless, whether I'm playing solo or with a team.
The only downside for you is going to be the almost non-existent NA scene, so you'll most likely be playing with EU ping if you don't play at very specific times. Bottom line is that trying out the game won't hurt anyone =).

On June 07 2011 06:13 Ethenielle wrote:
Same as HoN really.. its fun solo up to a certain point and then youll just get annoyed at how bad your teammates are. Great fun until that point tho, and if you have teammates then go for it :o

I don't understand why this "everyone but me is bad" attitude is so prevalent, I've played a whole bunch of SMM in BLC - yes you're going to have unlucky matches in terms of teams. But on average you will carry games below your skill, until you're playing quality matches.

I've been playing some old N64, GC, and PS2 games that I haven't touched in 5-10 years and it's been great. It's probably gonna last me all summer so I'm good

no snes?
fucking kids these days dont know their roots

hey lets play netplay dawg
LiquidDota StaffOnly a true king can play the King.
GhostKorean
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States2330 Posts
June 08 2011 09:36 GMT
#26582
I was like 5 when N64 came out yo
i heard about netplay, cant you play SSBM over that? I'll be down to play but I'm terrible :D
wonderwall
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
New Zealand695 Posts
June 08 2011 09:48 GMT
#26583
pretty sure that attitude is prevalent in the age bracket of a large chunk of the players anyway; to simply localise the problem to hon is a bit presumptuous


There's actually been a ton of research done on that. It's the concept of "illusory superiority". The end result was that they found that stupid people tend to overestimate their own competency in many areas.
xZiGGY
Profile Joined August 2010
United Kingdom801 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-08 09:56:13
June 08 2011 09:55 GMT
#26584
which probably has a bias relative to the experience of the people involved, where developed young adults are cockier than downtrodden losers :p (but yes it is by absolutely no means age specific )
Meh.
maahes`ra
Profile Joined January 2011
United States255 Posts
June 08 2011 09:55 GMT
#26585
On June 08 2011 16:53 xZiGGY wrote:
50 games isnt enough! grind 500 and come back to me! :O
otherwise learn how to farm like a boss since that has win potential all over the place :x


What exactly does good farming constitute? Just a good sense of lasthitting and denying, or does the responsibility of setting up neutral stacks also fall on the farmer instead of a support?

On June 08 2011 16:56 Heen wrote:
What MMR range are you playing in?

I don't think full support is something I would recommend to everyone as his first role... playing a good support is harder than most people give credit for. Supports play just that: 'support' for the rest of your team so if you don't have a good understanding of where/when you need to ward/be. One reason why the worst players on the team are asked to play ward bitch is because you have to be really bad to single handedly lose the game with this role. Which means it's hard to pick up on the details of your mistakes as you're trying to get better at it.

You should just play all roles if possible but from my experience of watching ppl try to improve, easiest to get decently good with are: semi-carry (farm until you expect a fight then you go cleanup), tanky or hard to kill carries, support, solo'd initiators (tundra, bubbles etc), specialty carries (doctor repulsor, soulstealer etc.), then support initiators (magmus) in that order


I'm sitting at 1421 MMR right now.

The lowest I had dipped was like 1220 - I lost the first ten or so games I ever played straight out, and then I was just playing Witch Slayer. I -knew- that I wasn't taking advantage of the ability to gank when I was playing him. After a certain point I had switched over to Plague Rider - after I switched, people seemed to take advantage of the opportunities I created more readily, I was manastarved less often, and I felt more effective in teamfights between the armor buff and the ridiculous ult.

I get what you're saying about picking up on where I'm going wrong. The one thing that's stuck out is that with certain teams, I'm sometimes left scratching my head at their decisions and I get caught out of position or overextended because I had expected everyone to do something else. I'm trying to work on being more observant of my team, rather than the enemy, at the moment.
( ._.) ( ._) ( .) ( ) (≖ ) (‿≖ ) (≖‿≖ ) (≖‿≖) ( ≖‿≖) ( -‿-)
xZiGGY
Profile Joined August 2010
United Kingdom801 Posts
June 08 2011 09:59 GMT
#26586
it's about optimising your income in any applicable situation :p, if you want to improve no one will be able to help you the same way you can help yourself. You'll probably want to be hitting atleast 400 gpm in every game you win as a carry though, if your team is carry stacked then that's going to be fun zzzz.
Meh.
wonderwall
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
New Zealand695 Posts
June 08 2011 10:06 GMT
#26587
Getting last hitting down to a fine art so you are never missing creeps. Having the game knowledge to know when you should sit and rice and when you should help your team in fights. Having the map awareness to be able to find opportunities to freefarm without being ganked. But yeah just optimizing your income so you are getting most gold out of any situation without falling behind on anything else.
maahes`ra
Profile Joined January 2011
United States255 Posts
June 08 2011 10:20 GMT
#26588
uguuuu, that seems really nebulous ~____~. in that case, if the rest of my team randoms in such a way that a carry of some kind would fit, I'mma give it a shot... Flint or Corrupted Disciple~. :D
( ._.) ( ._) ( .) ( ) (≖ ) (‿≖ ) (≖‿≖ ) (≖‿≖) ( ≖‿≖) ( -‿-)
xZiGGY
Profile Joined August 2010
United Kingdom801 Posts
June 08 2011 10:30 GMT
#26589
I never said learn to carry, I just said learn to farm like a boss ;o
I'm not even telling you to learn how to win games, just how to make money when there's money to be made and to know how to do that, since ultimately that is very fundamental.
Meh.
Heen
Profile Blog Joined November 2003
Korea (South)2178 Posts
June 08 2011 10:31 GMT
#26590
On June 08 2011 18:55 maahes wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 08 2011 16:53 xZiGGY wrote:
50 games isnt enough! grind 500 and come back to me! :O
otherwise learn how to farm like a boss since that has win potential all over the place :x


What exactly does good farming constitute? Just a good sense of lasthitting and denying, or does the responsibility of setting up neutral stacks also fall on the farmer instead of a support?

Show nested quote +
On June 08 2011 16:56 Heen wrote:
What MMR range are you playing in?

I don't think full support is something I would recommend to everyone as his first role... playing a good support is harder than most people give credit for. Supports play just that: 'support' for the rest of your team so if you don't have a good understanding of where/when you need to ward/be. One reason why the worst players on the team are asked to play ward bitch is because you have to be really bad to single handedly lose the game with this role. Which means it's hard to pick up on the details of your mistakes as you're trying to get better at it.

You should just play all roles if possible but from my experience of watching ppl try to improve, easiest to get decently good with are: semi-carry (farm until you expect a fight then you go cleanup), tanky or hard to kill carries, support, solo'd initiators (tundra, bubbles etc), specialty carries (doctor repulsor, soulstealer etc.), then support initiators (magmus) in that order


I'm sitting at 1421 MMR right now.

The lowest I had dipped was like 1220 - I lost the first ten or so games I ever played straight out, and then I was just playing Witch Slayer. I -knew- that I wasn't taking advantage of the ability to gank when I was playing him. After a certain point I had switched over to Plague Rider - after I switched, people seemed to take advantage of the opportunities I created more readily, I was manastarved less often, and I felt more effective in teamfights between the armor buff and the ridiculous ult.

I get what you're saying about picking up on where I'm going wrong. The one thing that's stuck out is that with certain teams, I'm sometimes left scratching my head at their decisions and I get caught out of position or overextended because I had expected everyone to do something else. I'm trying to work on being more observant of my team, rather than the enemy, at the moment.

If you're playing in the 1400's, you should feel free to play all roles instead of focusing one at a time. I'd imagine 1400s wouldn't be very rewarding. I've smurfed on 1500s account on the free account week and people died and argued over the stupidest things.

Anyway, plague rider might be a good choice for someone who's new to this genre of games but if you're looking to improve, it's not highly recommended. It's a very reactive hero and at higher lvls all you do is mostly hide in trees and wait for the other team to take the bait.

Try some active ganking heroes like deadwood, tundra, bubbles. If you learn to be good with them, you can climb the ladder easily unlike ward support which isn't even needed in 1400s, no offense.
('''(G_G/'''')
maahes`ra
Profile Joined January 2011
United States255 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-08 11:34:00
June 08 2011 11:29 GMT
#26591
On June 08 2011 19:30 xZiGGY wrote:
I never said learn to carry, I just said learn to farm like a boss ;o
I'm not even telling you to learn how to win games, just how to make money when there's money to be made and to know how to do that, since ultimately that is very fundamental.

aaaaah, point taken. I'll keep this in mind. ^___^

On June 08 2011 19:31 Heen wrote:
If you're playing in the 1400's, you should feel free to play all roles instead of focusing one at a time. I'd imagine 1400s wouldn't be very rewarding. I've smurfed on 1500s account on the free account week and people died and argued over the stupidest things.

Anyway, plague rider might be a good choice for someone who's new to this genre of games but if you're looking to improve, it's not highly recommended. It's a very reactive hero and at higher lvls all you do is mostly hide in trees and wait for the other team to take the bait.

Try some active ganking heroes like deadwood, tundra, bubbles. If you learn to be good with them, you can climb the ladder easily unlike ward support which isn't even needed in 1400s, no offense.

No offense taken, you're totally right. I can't tell you how many times I've had a full set of wards up and had people complain we needed more. -_- Few of my games were really enjoyable as a whole, I tend to pick one or two pleasant moments and wrap up the memory of a game as one or two good personal plays.

I'll give the heroes you mentioned a try.

Thanks, guys. :D:D
( ._.) ( ._) ( .) ( ) (≖ ) (‿≖ ) (≖‿≖ ) (≖‿≖) ( ≖‿≖) ( -‿-)
AndyJay
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Australia833 Posts
June 08 2011 11:41 GMT
#26592
My advice (which I know not everyone agrees with) for those trying to improve is play 1v1s with a friend to build confidence and understanding of the laning phase. No stats, 5mins games, same lane. After a kill or two when the game starts snowballing for the better player restart the game and try to stick with them for longer. I guarantee after an hour or two of this you will have improved immensely. Hit me up online if you want to practice against someone, my name is AndyJay and I play mainly Aussie times.
Sm3agol
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States2055 Posts
June 08 2011 11:47 GMT
#26593
Another newbie question. I've been just playing random for the last 20 games or so, just looking to get familiar with all the heros and their abilities, while getting a money head start....but I've been wondering if I should just focus on one hero at a time until I am really good with several. So far my favorite heros are Maliken, Dr. Repulsor, and polliwog, but I still don't know them that well. Maliken is such a tanking beast though. If you get a level advantage plus the proper items, you can literally 1 v 5 an an entire team as long as you don't get stunned or ulti'ed bursted down.
AndyJay
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Australia833 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-08 12:46:49
June 08 2011 12:44 GMT
#26594
It's up to you what to play, but I think having a good understanding of every hero in the game is fundamental to being a solid player, and the only way to do that is to play every hero. The only time randoming is really frowned upon is when they screw your lanes. Examples would be randoming a melee after you already have 3 melee or a jungle hero after you already have one (Wild Soul after you have a Tempest - although both of these are excellent laners people will probably QQ all game if they don't get to jungle).

If you're randoming, most of the time you should probably use your extra gold on courier/ward, just because it's bad to rely on it and it really helps out the team.
Kirb
Profile Joined April 2010
Germany900 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-08 13:47:04
June 08 2011 13:44 GMT
#26595
On June 08 2011 20:47 Sm3agol wrote:
Another newbie question. I've been just playing random for the last 20 games or so, just looking to get familiar with all the heros and their abilities, while getting a money head start....but I've been wondering if I should just focus on one hero at a time until I am really good with several. So far my favorite heros are Maliken, Dr. Repulsor, and polliwog, but I still don't know them that well. Maliken is such a tanking beast though. If you get a level advantage plus the proper items, you can literally 1 v 5 an an entire team as long as you don't get stunned or ulti'ed bursted down.


I'm playing only dota but I'm pretty sure this applies to hon aswell:
Just play whatever is fun for you at the start cause you'll get so much better from just playing - even more than in Starcraft. That's cause there is so much decision making on the spot. You just have to know the right move in an instant. You can learn how to play with/against different heroes in theory but decision making comes through playing as much as you can.
xZiGGY
Profile Joined August 2010
United Kingdom801 Posts
June 08 2011 15:42 GMT
#26596
dont worry about winning, dont worry about picks until you start to get a basic understanding of the game; your mmr might plummet but that'll just mean the games balance out for you all the more easily. I personally played a ton of no stats games to learn the hero basics and training clan inhouses for game basics (though tbh neither are too informative, selflearning is much more beneficial).

As for playing support, I find this to be crucial in the scrubby games I play, I do enjoy my stacks + counterwards etc, if I can play with a coupla people I know then a good support is a must. But a lot of things are a must in pub games so don't read into that that's just me ranting.
Meh.
Kipsate
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Netherlands45349 Posts
June 08 2011 16:23 GMT
#26597
You shouldn'nt focus on any hero at all, remember you will learn the strengths and most important the weaknesses of the hero as you play each and every one of them

Then if you face them in a game/lane you know exactly how much damage they roughly do, how much mana they need for abilities, and will have an internal clock(takes time) for their cds.

Simply put, play everyone, its also alot of fun experiencing each hero.
WriterXiao8~~
Dead9
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States4725 Posts
June 08 2011 17:08 GMT
#26598
When I first started playing dota I played 1~3 games with each hero just to figure out what their skills did, and I think it helped a lot, especially since I would generally read over a guide beforehand. Obviously you can learn their skills by watching them ingame or reading up on them, but it's way easier and way more fun to just play each hero a couple of times.

I really recommend looking up a guide for a hero, then try running through a game or two with it. Some guides are inaccurate or outdated, but you can figure that out after you get over the "what is that and what does it do" hurdle. You might want to skip junglers (and maybe blood hunter) though, jungling is a nightmare if you're not sure what you're doing lol

When you get to the point where you have a general idea of what everything does, all you want to do is practice mechanics. Go into games looking to get better at lasthitting, positioning in lane, warding, etc, and you should notice some improvement after a couple matches.

Eventually as you get better you can also learn from watching others (either by playing a lot of pubs or by watching replays/vods), but in general practicing mechanics should make you better at everything.
Nub4ever
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Canada1981 Posts
June 08 2011 19:54 GMT
#26599
On June 08 2011 19:20 maahes wrote:
uguuuu, that seems really nebulous ~____~. in that case, if the rest of my team randoms in such a way that a carry of some kind would fit, I'mma give it a shot... Flint or Corrupted Disciple~. :D

imo animation wise CD is great though flint has a freakin epic animation his base damage is absolute garbage only one above the lowest in the game (ss) so actually lasthitting with him when you're new is kinda problematic ;O
Dota 3hard5me
Logo
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States7542 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-08 20:01:28
June 08 2011 20:00 GMT
#26600
On June 09 2011 04:54 Nub4ever wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 08 2011 19:20 maahes wrote:
uguuuu, that seems really nebulous ~____~. in that case, if the rest of my team randoms in such a way that a carry of some kind would fit, I'mma give it a shot... Flint or Corrupted Disciple~. :D

imo animation wise CD is great though flint has a freakin epic animation his base damage is absolute garbage only one above the lowest in the game (ss) so actually lasthitting with him when you're new is kinda problematic ;O


Flint's animation is too good lol. Whenever I play him I'm so used to champions with mediocre animations that I always end up hitting too early (especially given his low dmg).

I'd say CD > flint because the farming is easier early on and you're sure to at least get off your AoE nuke to help the team out even if you otherwise suck.
Logo
Prev 1 1328 1329 1330 1331 1332 1664 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 1h 48m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Trikslyr25
EnDerr 6
StarCraft: Brood War
Rain 1318
Bisu 769
hero 489
Jaedong 391
Pusan 340
actioN 310
ggaemo 283
Mind 264
Stork 240
Nal_rA 130
[ Show more ]
Leta 109
Hyun 104
Mong 97
ToSsGirL 57
TY 44
soO 42
Sharp 31
Backho 29
NaDa 21
Bale 20
Hm[arnc] 13
Sacsri 13
Aegong 7
HiyA 4
Dota 2
XcaliburYe513
Fuzer 113
League of Legends
Dendi601
JimRising 470
Counter-Strike
oskar141
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King64
Other Games
summit1g7187
ceh9642
Happy258
SortOf113
NeuroSwarm54
Organizations
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 37
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH160
• LUISG 13
• Kozan
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• intothetv
• Migwel
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• iopq 3
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota2139
League of Legends
• Stunt574
• HappyZerGling106
Other Games
• WagamamaTV125
Upcoming Events
LiuLi Cup
1h 48m
BSL Team Wars
9h 48m
Team Hawk vs Team Dewalt
Korean StarCraft League
17h 48m
CranKy Ducklings
1d
SC Evo League
1d 2h
WardiTV Summer Champion…
1d 3h
Classic vs Percival
Spirit vs NightMare
CSO Cup
1d 6h
[BSL 2025] Weekly
1d 8h
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
SC Evo League
2 days
[ Show More ]
BSL Team Wars
2 days
Team Bonyth vs Team Sziky
Replay Cast
2 days
Afreeca Starleague
3 days
Queen vs HyuN
EffOrt vs Calm
Wardi Open
3 days
RotterdaM Event
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Afreeca Starleague
4 days
Rush vs TBD
Jaedong vs Mong
Afreeca Starleague
5 days
herO vs TBD
Royal vs Barracks
Replay Cast
5 days
The PondCast
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Jiahua Invitational
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
HCC Europe

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
BSL 20 Team Wars
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 3
BSL 21 Qualifiers
ASL Season 20
CSL Season 18: Qualifier 1
SEL Season 2 Championship
WardiTV Summer 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025

Upcoming

Acropolis #4 - TS1
CSLAN 3
CSL Season 18: Qualifier 2
CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
LASL Season 20
BSL Season 21
BSL 21 Team A
Chzzk MurlocKing SC1 vs SC2 Cup #2
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
EC S1
Sisters' Call Cup
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
MESA Nomadic Masters Fall
CS Asia Championships 2025
Roobet Cup 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
ESL Impact League S8: EU
ESL Impact League S8: SA
ESL Impact League S8: NA
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.