A mistake I think every single past RTS studio has made is thinking that you can maintain the skillcap of a game like Sc2 by "reducing the speed of everything". However, the skillcap is generally correlated with the speed of primarily unit movement speed +responsiveness but also too some extent lethality. So if you both take away macromechanics and slow down everything, the game becomes uninteresting.
It's definitely a possibility that Stormgate will fall into the same trap. If they make everything move and die much slower, they will have to compensate with more ability/spell-casting (wc3 micro) which I am not a fan of. As long as they maintain high movement speed of units and don't decrease lethality too much I think it can work though.
Unfortunately Frostgiant fell into the trap. But I am cautiously optimistic they realized their mistake and will gradually try to correct it.
I put in around 20 games PvP. The game is definitely better, but the units I still got quite a lot of issues with. There's just too much kiting micro, makes you miss just how engaging the marine tank medivac vs ling baneling muta works. Or marine mines medivac vs ling baneling roach.
Infernal also is lacking quite a bit of identity. The swarm race doesn't feel like it, and the shroud isn't as interesting as creep.
Vanguard with production boost top bar ability and the depot boost, feel more of a infernal mechanic than vanguard.
From a gameplay perspective I think there's still a lot more things planned: more units, high ground advantage, tier 3 units, apparently some more lower tier units to fill in certain niches, etc.
We haven't had big unit changes (besides the Hellbourne which has fundamental changes every patch) for months I don't think. Just minor tweaks. (Unless I'm forgetting stuff).
I played the first campaign mission - it was better for sure.
Played a couple 1v1s, inf vs. inf and cel vs. van and had fun in both. I've only been playing once a week for the past few months, just the weekly mutation in co-op.
I think the gameplay looks reasonable. I hope they don't run out of funding and can continue to develop this for an additional 12-18 months. One thing I can't complain about is the pace at which they operate. I think they accomplished a lot in ~4 years of development time.
They only managed to raise an additional amount between 1.75-3M. That is less than expected. I hoped they had funding for an additional 12-18 months. However, now it appears they go all-in on a Q3 1.0. I would be surprised if they manage to generate enough revenue to continue operations going into next year.
The biggest financial problem to me has always been when anybody questions game quality they say they are a small team, with less funding etc, but then at the same time they pay their employees AAA cushy california salaries, and rent out this luxurious dev space. Is all that really needed? We have great RTS made by 1 or 2 people in recent years such as The Scouring (1 person) and Godsworn (2 people) I know running a startup game dev company can not be easy, and I credit Frost Giant for trying, but i find it so surprising they are spending 15 mil a year when 1 or 2 people can make a game of similar quality. How does this happen? If anything, they should have started small, with small salaries, probably work from home then when they had a product people liked and was sustainable then they upscale. You don't upscale before you have a viable product. Am I wrong or is this grossly mismanaged?
They thought that they had all the experience and it was only Blizzard’s C-suite stopping them from making StarCraft 3, but it turns out it’s the hard cold reality of economics.
The biggest financial problem to me has always been when anybody questions game quality they say they are a small team, with less funding etc, but then at the same time they pay their employees AAA cushy california salaries, and rent out this luxurious dev space. Is all that really needed? We have great RTS made by 1 or 2 people in recent years such as The Scouring (1 person) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TupjL13wi7I and Godsworn (2 people) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qxt5yDYFXFg I know running a startup game dev company can not be easy, and I credit Frost Giant for trying, but i find it so surprising they are spending 15 mil a year when 1 or 2 people can make a game of similar quality. How does this happen? If anything, they should have started small, with small salaries, probably work from home then when they had a product people liked and was sustainable then they upscale. You don't upscale before you have a viable product. Am I wrong or is this grossly mismanaged?
Stormgate was created to be like AAA but with AA budget. I would argue IP is what they really want to create, hence all the audiobook or comic etc. Somehow they didn't catch the hint when everyone reacted sort of meh when they released the early trailers. That imo is their biggest mistake throughout the entire development.
Tempest rising as well, I remember reading about the team never worked on any RTS before, nailed the C&C vibe perfectly.
Stormgate right now actually isn't bad at all, but it's still not special and worse when you think about how much comes down to how much funding, and that it isn't holding any players (already back at 100-ish players)
Was that big round of funding they talked about mentioned in the financial report? I didn't have time to look through it too much. It was only a few million? I tried to find the threads about it before but couldn't. Beomulf in his Stormgate Sunday's said that it wasn't in the report, but I may have misheard.
They still don't act like they're about to go broke in a couple months. There's been nothing new monetized (besides the one co-op hero) for months.
I've been a supporter of the game, but I still went into the campaign revamp with low expectations. I was pleasantly surprised - it was pretty fun. I usually don't care too much about video game stories, but I thought it was a good start. (They have some more world building to do though, for sure).
On May 05 2025 23:29 SoleSteeler wrote: Was that big round of funding they talked about mentioned in the financial report? I didn't have time to look through it too much. It was only a few million? I tried to find the threads about it before but couldn't. Beomulf in his Stormgate Sunday's said that it wasn't in the report, but I may have misheard.
They still don't act like they're about to go broke in a couple months. There's been nothing new monetized (besides the one co-op hero) for months.
I've been a supporter of the game, but I still went into the campaign revamp with low expectations. I was pleasantly surprised - it was pretty fun. I usually don't care too much about video game stories, but I thought it was a good start. (They have some more world building to do though, for sure).
I think I was mistaken on that one - I had read it as 3 million dollars before 2025, but it is as of April 30. So 3 Million appears to be the additional funding round lead by bitkraft as mentioned at the end of 2024. Of course, without direct confirmation from Frost Giant we can't tell for certain
The biggest financial problem to me has always been when anybody questions game quality they say they are a small team, with less funding etc, but then at the same time they pay their employees AAA cushy california salaries, and rent out this luxurious dev space. Is all that really needed? We have great RTS made by 1 or 2 people in recent years such as The Scouring (1 person) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TupjL13wi7I and Godsworn (2 people) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qxt5yDYFXFg I know running a startup game dev company can not be easy, and I credit Frost Giant for trying, but i find it so surprising they are spending 15 mil a year when 1 or 2 people can make a game of similar quality. How does this happen? If anything, they should have started small, with small salaries, probably work from home then when they had a product people liked and was sustainable then they upscale. You don't upscale before you have a viable product. Am I wrong or is this grossly mismanaged?
Stormgate was created to be like AAA but with AA budget. I would argue IP is what they really want to create, hence all the audiobook or comic etc. Somehow they didn't catch the hint when everyone reacted sort of meh when they released the early trailers. That imo is their biggest mistake throughout the entire development.
Tempest rising as well, I remember reading about the team never worked on any RTS before, nailed the C&C vibe perfectly.
Stormgate right now actually isn't bad at all, but it's still not special and worse when you think about how much comes down to how much funding, and that it isn't holding any players (already back at 100-ish players)
A lot of the indie/AA stuff in the RTS space isn’t special either to be fair, I’m not sure why.
You seem to get more genuine gems in other genres. Hell even adjacent ones like 4X.
There’s lots and lots of decent stuff. Just not that ‘wow’ factor. There’s a ton of stuff I’d play a campaign through, have a good 7, or 8 out of 10 time. Sometimes made with really small times, and wow that’s impressive.
Equally, sometimes I just want to be wowed by a 10/10 or a 9/10 game, not by how impressive the output was versus budget. And I’ve played plenty in other genres, just not recently in RTS
Having small teams do really, really solid stuff is cool don’t get me wrong, but I’m put in mind when you see some precocious child prodigy type do something impressive. Like yeah it’s fucking cool you, at 6 are doing something in the ballpark as good as adult masters, and full respect but ultimately I’ll still consume what those adult masters are doing in music or whatever.
It’s also a bit of a fragmented landscape and I think everyone wants slightly different things which doesn’t help! For me personally I’d take like a 10/10 synthesis of the ‘classics’ as it were, or a 9/10, rough round the edges but really innovative and interesting take (to my tastes, I know some have tried)
The biggest financial problem to me has always been when anybody questions game quality they say they are a small team, with less funding etc, but then at the same time they pay their employees AAA cushy california salaries, and rent out this luxurious dev space. Is all that really needed? We have great RTS made by 1 or 2 people in recent years such as The Scouring (1 person) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TupjL13wi7I and Godsworn (2 people) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qxt5yDYFXFg I know running a startup game dev company can not be easy, and I credit Frost Giant for trying, but i find it so surprising they are spending 15 mil a year when 1 or 2 people can make a game of similar quality. How does this happen? If anything, they should have started small, with small salaries, probably work from home then when they had a product people liked and was sustainable then they upscale. You don't upscale before you have a viable product. Am I wrong or is this grossly mismanaged?
Stormgate was created to be like AAA but with AA budget. I would argue IP is what they really want to create, hence all the audiobook or comic etc. Somehow they didn't catch the hint when everyone reacted sort of meh when they released the early trailers. That imo is their biggest mistake throughout the entire development.
Tempest rising as well, I remember reading about the team never worked on any RTS before, nailed the C&C vibe perfectly.
Stormgate right now actually isn't bad at all, but it's still not special and worse when you think about how much comes down to how much funding, and that it isn't holding any players (already back at 100-ish players)
A lot of the indie/AA stuff in the RTS space isn’t special either to be fair, I’m not sure why.
You seem to get more genuine gems in other genres. Hell even adjacent ones like 4X.
There’s lots and lots of decent stuff. Just not that ‘wow’ factor. There’s a ton of stuff I’d play a campaign through, have a good 7, or 8 out of 10 time. Sometimes made with really small times, and wow that’s impressive.
Equally, sometimes I just want to be wowed by a 10/10 or a 9/10 game, not by how impressive the output was versus budget. And I’ve played plenty in other genres, just not recently in RTS
Having small teams do really, really solid stuff is cool don’t get me wrong, but I’m put in mind when you see some precocious child prodigy type do something impressive. Like yeah it’s fucking cool you, at 6 are doing something in the ballpark as good as adult masters, and full respect but ultimately I’ll still consume what those adult masters are doing in music or whatever.
It’s also a bit of a fragmented landscape and I think everyone wants slightly different things which doesn’t help! For me personally I’d take like a 10/10 synthesis of the ‘classics’ as it were, or a 9/10, rough round the edges but really innovative and interesting take (to my tastes, I know some have tried)
Fingers crossed anyway!
I think AA budget is enough to make for a great 10/10 game. More budget doesn't necessarily mean much of it would transfer into the game itself. Kinda like movies where more budgets could mean bigger set and cast but also way bigger insurance and logistics. If I didn't know much about gaming, I would expect exhibition 33 had a bigger budget than ff16.
The biggest financial problem to me has always been when anybody questions game quality they say they are a small team, with less funding etc, but then at the same time they pay their employees AAA cushy california salaries, and rent out this luxurious dev space. Is all that really needed? We have great RTS made by 1 or 2 people in recent years such as The Scouring (1 person) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TupjL13wi7I and Godsworn (2 people) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qxt5yDYFXFg I know running a startup game dev company can not be easy, and I credit Frost Giant for trying, but i find it so surprising they are spending 15 mil a year when 1 or 2 people can make a game of similar quality. How does this happen? If anything, they should have started small, with small salaries, probably work from home then when they had a product people liked and was sustainable then they upscale. You don't upscale before you have a viable product. Am I wrong or is this grossly mismanaged?
Stormgate was created to be like AAA but with AA budget. I would argue IP is what they really want to create, hence all the audiobook or comic etc. Somehow they didn't catch the hint when everyone reacted sort of meh when they released the early trailers. That imo is their biggest mistake throughout the entire development.
Tempest rising as well, I remember reading about the team never worked on any RTS before, nailed the C&C vibe perfectly.
Stormgate right now actually isn't bad at all, but it's still not special and worse when you think about how much comes down to how much funding, and that it isn't holding any players (already back at 100-ish players)
A lot of the indie/AA stuff in the RTS space isn’t special either to be fair, I’m not sure why.
You seem to get more genuine gems in other genres. Hell even adjacent ones like 4X.
There’s lots and lots of decent stuff. Just not that ‘wow’ factor. There’s a ton of stuff I’d play a campaign through, have a good 7, or 8 out of 10 time. Sometimes made with really small times, and wow that’s impressive.
Equally, sometimes I just want to be wowed by a 10/10 or a 9/10 game, not by how impressive the output was versus budget. And I’ve played plenty in other genres, just not recently in RTS
Having small teams do really, really solid stuff is cool don’t get me wrong, but I’m put in mind when you see some precocious child prodigy type do something impressive. Like yeah it’s fucking cool you, at 6 are doing something in the ballpark as good as adult masters, and full respect but ultimately I’ll still consume what those adult masters are doing in music or whatever.
It’s also a bit of a fragmented landscape and I think everyone wants slightly different things which doesn’t help! For me personally I’d take like a 10/10 synthesis of the ‘classics’ as it were, or a 9/10, rough round the edges but really innovative and interesting take (to my tastes, I know some have tried)
Fingers crossed anyway!
I think AA budget is enough to make for a great 10/10 game. More budget doesn't necessarily mean much of it would transfer into the game itself. Kinda like movies where more budgets could mean bigger set and cast but also way bigger insurance and logistics. If I didn't know much about gaming, I would expect exhibition 33 had a bigger budget than ff16.
Oh yeah I’d agree, I think it’s sufficient for sure, I’ve just yet to really be wowed by that AA RTS, but I have plenty in other genres.
the amount of people who were against heroes in WC3 and i am only now finding out they never even tried wc3 is alarming. i remember artosis being vehemently against it so i can only imagine that is how it all started. the idea of power centralization and SC2 waryness of deathballs scaring people made sense in a vacuum.
On May 08 2025 21:13 CicadaSC wrote: im just curious do we know what the next big patch is supposed to bring? im hoping for 3v3.
To the best of my knowledge, they're really trying to nail down 1v1 and Campaign before releasing 3v3 to the world. So I'd assume 0.5 would have more campaign missions, more of the infernal rework, maybe some of the vanguard rework, and likely some first look at the creep camp v2 they've been talking about. I'd expect 0.6 or 0.7 to have 3v3, as IIRC that's going to get debuted before updated coop (I could have that backwards, though)
I like the new campaign by the way. :p The look, the items. It`s working way better than the froozen thrown theme for me. Story telling seems to work too, but i was more eager to see the playable part... so haven't paid too much attention ;>
EPT
