On October 24 2021 14:50 blade55555 wrote: Rus are definitely going to be one of my main civilizations. They look really fun. 5 more days until release and I can't wait!
Oh hey I see you here too blade! Yeah It's crazy the wait is almost over. Wish I was a part of the super secret beta that is probably starting in a few hours. Lots of people gonna be streaming AoE4 and I just have to watch
Yes I am :D. I am with you. Just get to watch and wish I could play
I am not sure. The gameplay both fun, deep and varied but it takes time knowing exactly how good a game is. There are also some things that are in the pipeline like fully custom hotkeys and global production queue that I think should have been ready at launch.
Personally I would give it 95/100 and I think it has potential to one of my favorite games of all time alongside SC2, AOE2 and Civilization.
Let‘s put it that way: if you think StarCraft II had „issues“ at launch in 2010 - think again. I would argue that SCII was not even remotely perfect, but the UI was functional. For AoE IV, that‘s just not the case, imo. Some of the biggest issue are imo:
- the missing global queues - the horrendeously bad icons, that make absolutely no sense. - the horrendeously bad control groups, that are just not functional at all - the fixed hotkeys, while at the same time having no hotkeys for some elements at all (canceling units?) - the freaking Chinese clickable!! huge ass icon in the middle of the freaking screen that - if you accidentally click on it - literally covers 80 % of the screen.
That‘s just bad imo, and there‘s no excuse for most of it to be in the game, even at launch. The sad part is that I think the game would be pretty good gameplay wise, but if you have to keep clicking on screen, can‘t select single units, constantly have to navigate through dogshit menus, can hardly macro and this idiotic Chinese Icon just keeps popping up, it‘s really hard to enjoy it. And at this point, I can‘t even give a score, because the UI is among the worst I have ever seen in a game, but I don‘t want to give a low score - because once these things are fixed - and I sincerely hope they‘ll completely redesign the entire UI - the game will be awesome.
Of course there is still some stuff that does not work the way I want it to, but that AoE units move weirdly has to be expected by now and I think that‘s fine. It‘s really just the UI that annoys me.
I think winter put it quote nicely: the UI seems to be designed by someone who never does anything in his base while attacking. Because that‘s what it feels like.
Let‘s put it that way: if you think StarCraft II had „issues“ at launch in 2010 - think again. I would argue that SCII was not even remotely perfect, but the UI was functional. For AoE IV, that‘s just not the case, imo. Some of the biggest issue are imo:
- the missing global queues - the horrendeously bad icons, that make absolutely no sense. - the horrendeously bad control groups, that are just not functional at all - the fixed hotkeys, while at the same time having no hotkeys for some elements at all (canceling units?) - the freaking Chinese clickable!! huge ass icon in the middle of the freaking screen that - if you accidentally click on it - literally covers 80 % of the screen.
That‘s just bad imo, and there‘s no excuse for most of it to be in the game, even at launch. The sad part is that I think the game would be pretty good gameplay wise, but if you have to keep clicking on screen, can‘t select single units, constantly have to navigate through dogshit menus, can hardly macro and this idiotic Chinese Icon just keeps popping up, it‘s really hard to enjoy it. And at this point, I can‘t even give a score, because the UI is among the worst I have ever seen in a game, but I don‘t want to give a low score - because once these things are fixed - and I sincerely hope they‘ll completely redesign the entire UI - the game will be awesome.
Of course there is still some stuff that does not work the way I want it to, but that AoE units move weirdly has to be expected by now and I think that‘s fine. It‘s really just the UI that annoys me.
I think winter put it quote nicely: the UI seems to be designed by someone who never does anything in his base while attacking. Because that‘s what it feels like.
So basically what you are saying: It's a great RTS for having fun, playing casually solo and/or with friends. But it's miles away from beeing esport material?
Minus SC2, which game succeeded while designed with esports in mind?
It looks fun at all levels of play atm, which is all that matters, the rest will follow. The biggest worry is how they will fix the game for the highest level of play when the best players abuse whatever they found, I remember Relic did an extremely poor job at balancing dawn of war 1.
On October 28 2021 20:06 nojok wrote: Minus SC2, which game succeeded while designed with esports in mind?
It looks fun at all levels of play atm, which is all that matters, the rest will follow. The biggest worry is how they will fix the game for the highest level of play when the best players abuse whatever they found, I remember Relic did an extremely poor job at balancing dawn of war 1.
RTS or in general? Quite a few had decent success and were build exclusively for multiplayer and esport like Apex, Valorant, Fortnite and so on
And just to clarify: I don't expect Aoe4 to come out the gates esport ready and fully balanced. But what swisslink wrote are aspects of the game (or UI) that need to be better before even considering stuff like balance
Haven't seen that review before, I just checked Winter's stream at the end of the last Stress Test. The review covers most of the UI stuff he said there. Even if he apparently left out a few ridiculous things (Chinese Dynasty button, focus control group, etc.). Compared to the other reviews out there, he at least brings up the bigger issues. I scrolled through some Metacritic Reviews and most of them simply overlooked the UI issues that are hard to ignore, imo.
On October 28 2021 18:11 Harris1st wrote: So basically what you are saying: It's a great RTS for having fun, playing casually solo and/or with friends. But it's miles away from beeing esport material?
I would say it's a fun game for some casual rounds. I wouldn't say it's only bad for esports though. I think even on a decent ladder level, these issues are going to be annoying to most players. I would not consider myself a good SC2 player and even I was annoyed that the entire UI was just barely functional.
On October 28 2021 20:06 nojok wrote: Minus SC2, which game succeeded while designed with esports in mind?
It looks fun at all levels of play atm, which is all that matters, the rest will follow. The biggest worry is how they will fix the game for the highest level of play when the best players abuse whatever they found, I remember Relic did an extremely poor job at balancing dawn of war 1.
RTS or in general? Quite a few had decent success and were build exclusively for multiplayer and esport like Apex, Valorant, Fortnite and so on
And just to clarify: I don't expect Aoe4 to come out the gates esport ready and fully balanced. But what swisslink wrote are aspects of the game (or UI) that need to be better before even considering stuff like balance
That's the point. These are not balance issues. These are not issues that break the game at a higher level due to unexpected synergies between different aspects of the game. These are just elements that actively prevent you from playing fast.
On October 29 2021 17:08 GTR wrote: feels like a meme at this point what are considered "top" rts releases don't come with a ranked ladder on release (first wc3:r and now aoe4)
I don't get it. It can't be that hard to make a working ladder with some MMR/ ELO Just make it transparent enough for people to understand whats happening
Maybe they are afraid of making a non-perfect system and then get shitstormed for stupid matchmaking? Dunno
On October 29 2021 17:08 GTR wrote: feels like a meme at this point what are considered "top" rts releases don't come with a ranked ladder on release (first wc3:r and now aoe4)
I don't get it. It can't be that hard to make a working ladder with some MMR/ ELO Just make it transparent enough for people to understand whats happening
Maybe they are afraid of making a non-perfect system and then get shitstormed for stupid matchmaking? Dunno
I'm fine with not adding Ranked from the start. Mainly because it's better to let the players experiment a bit before the season starts. However, if you do it, you at least have to give a clear schedule when it's going to be added. And it should not be longer than maybe 10-15 days. Afaik that's not the case here.
There is already an ELO system in place for the matchmaking and a leaderboard. I think they want to patch in more custom hotkeys, fix some bugs and do the first balance update, before activating the official ranked section.
So far it is just really fun, feels like there is so many ways you can build your economy, and after each game I want to jump straight.into another one.
Not sure I'd be as excited for the esports side though.
Been watching Lirik play this and I wanna give it a go. Never played AOE before (not seriously anyways).
Is something like playing the campaign a good way to learn the basic fundamentals? Or do I go straight into 1v1 and cookie cutter build orders via online guides?
EPT
