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On July 16 2007 02:23 rpf wrote:bkb is a str item, why would you get it on an int hero? Or is the stat part not really the important part? Let me guess, dagger to get a perfect ult, bkb to avoid disables? 
Nobody gets BKB for stats. Stats/DMG are just extra.  BKB is for heroes who are too vulnerable without it, such as clinkz.
Dagger just has so many uses. You can get into position faster and surprise opponents and it can be used to 'hop' into a battle and cast ult. In any case, you go dagger before BKB on CM.
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Paper, I know I'm hung up on systematic builds and all that, but that's just how my brain works. :/
I mean, I guess I have to learn that each hero has its own strengths and weaknesses. Tonight, I was told to go guin on ursa, and I just laughed, but when I thought about it, I'd own with it. It'd give me the disable I'd need to get some free hits in before/after I stun. Stack that with my ult and that other ability that increases damage, and you'd have a great hero.
Too bad I refused to go guin on a str hero.
And what's the deal with SnY? Some people *hate* this item, and some people seem to swear by it. I was in an apem earlier where every single agi hero got an SnY, except for me.
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On July 16 2007 04:25 rpf wrote:Paper, I know I'm hung up on systematic builds and all that, but that's just how my brain works. :/ I mean, I guess I have to learn that each hero has its own strengths and weaknesses. Tonight, I was told to go guin on ursa, and I just laughed, but when I thought about it, I'd own with it. It'd give me the disable I'd need to get some free hits in before/after I stun. Stack that with my ult and that other ability that increases damage, and you'd have a great hero. Too bad I refused to go guin on a str hero. And what's the deal with SnY? Some people *hate* this item, and some people seem to swear by it. I was in an apem earlier where every single agi hero got an SnY, except for me.
It's easy to make and that's why pub players love it, but it just provides a little bit of everything and serves no concrete purpose, you shouldn't be getting items just because you have to buy something, but because you need it.
If you need speed, get Dagger or BoT.
If you need damage, get a Desolator/Buriza/MKB/Radiance/Butterfly/Mjolnir(the last 2 on agi heroes only), they provide around 3 times more DPS.
If you need tughness, get a heart(965 hp > 304hp), or Hood(~42% EHP increase vs Magic), or Butterfly(~42% EHP increase vs Attacks).
Every time I see Clinkz with a SnY, I fucking want to punch that stupid fucker, not to mention they often combine it a satanic, so they can have a crappy leech off their crappy damage, yay!
Also, Ursa is not a str caster, so guinsoo is not a good idea, you should rely on your teammates for disable and even in a 1v1 situation a heart will provide you with much higher DPS, so in the end you'll deal more damage compared to when having a guinsoo and 3 seconds extra for attacking, but much lower DPS, not to mention the Heart also gives you almost 1000 HP.
Generally you should just get a blink dagger, if you want to chase and just hide somewhere close, activate overpower, wait till the cooldown is almost up, enrage, blink, 5 hits + earthshock, overpower, 5 more hits. This often is the end of the battle, but if the enemy survives you could chase and use the dagger, when it cooldowns for another earthshock and overpower combo.
Btw, RoB is a shitty item, it provides just 0.65 mana per second, so it would need 3 minutes and 20 seconds for a single cast of a 130 mana spell, it definitely does not allow you to spam anything, even just a sobi mask regenerates more mana on int heroes after the first few levels ^^
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RoB isn't a shitty item, its the +6 damage you get in place of the 0.65 mps, you don't use it to spam you use it just because its there and if you have any sense of mana conservation and spell timing it is more than enough.
With that being said, if you need to spam, get a bottle or clarities.
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SnY on clinks is pretty useless but for some hero that can be good, for me, dota is like bw... you have to adjust to what the other team hero is and what item they got good example BM with necrono vs invi hero for example, if they are no invi i would go arcane ring instead
aniway just my opinion, is you dont agree i dont care oo;
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Paper, really nothing blatantly incorrect. To be honest there are so many builds right now and so many questions asked that I will try to answer them after I am done studying It will take me some time to answer everything.
Anyway, I already posted my thoughts on Gorgon. 1 mana point offers 2 hp, plus that it regenerates a shitload faster, so instead of bracers I get null's. Another thing RPF, I will NEVER start with 4 tangos, at max i'll buy a bottle that heals for 400hp and a lot faster than tangos.
It really depends on what type of game you are playing, public, dota league or a clanwar. I get totally different items for everything. In games with random people I always play to make myself awesome and not rely on anyone else whereas in clan wars I might actually try to play for the team.
As for razor I play him pretty weak, meaning I expect my opponents to suck. if you get him at AR I buy boots+circlet+2 mana potions and go CL/move/heal thing max first with ulti at lvl6 of course. then I get maelstrom as my first item, then see how it goes. If I need hp I get 2/3 bracers else I just go bot/mjollner/Hot/Buriza;/
as for sniper I do somewhat the same. Sniper farming is so easy if you know how to last hit and have no delay. I do get a ror for him though. I start with ror then demon edge - boots - mkb - bracers or bot same story as razor. after mkb I probably get HOT if I didnt buy 3 bracers or butterfly. Depends again on how my opponents are playing, whether they aim me etc. Skadi+manta is also fun, but not really easy to play.
Note these builds won't work in Clanwars but then again, nobody plays these two in clanwars so fuck it.
and RPF BKB active makes you unable to get hit by spells, just like the ultimate avatar of naix. so people can throw stuns at you(normal stun like basher does work though)
The reason I get MKB on sniper is because he needs dmg+speed and mkb is rather cheap. You are right that mkb wastes a bit of headshot but point is it also adds another mini stun period, if you have sufficient attack speed that will become so godly. Another reason I get it fast is because playing sniper allows me to. meaning i can farm so easily and nobody can do a thing about it. The other options like Desolater, they dont add attack speed which i think is very important and it also takes away the option of getting another orb effect item later. butterfly is really expensive and i like to get that later because it doesnt really add massive dmg like mkb, radiance? lol. opposed to paper I do think S&Y is awesome and it's something I make on sniper sometimes. stun+sange =rape.;D Hmm now that I think about it, sniper has many options and it doesn't really matter
edit: just played a game with sniper anddddddd maybe mkb first item isnt THAT good indeed. I think ill go mjolner from now on:D
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Read everything and....
I think you're just too stuck up on items rpf, my advice now is just play the damn game and get the items that you feel like getting...
For example some of your sentences are like ' Yeah well I don't like to use x spell unless hero comes close ' or ' yeah i don't like that item with this item so no '
Just play..
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hmm might be a solid advice, but there is nothing wrong with playing and trying to become better by asking other people what to do Eventually you develop a feeling for the game. I have never watched a single replay of dota as opposed to brain who has watched countless and I still rape his ass The most important things are definitely, last hitting very fast, understanding where people walk for hunt, understanding where people are from the directions they went last you saw them at minimap, having a good feeling for timing(when to go back etc) and in team battles knowing who to aim and disable. Those things you will only learn by playing playing and playing some more. But dont play mindlessly if you want to improve, always think;)
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On July 16 2007 05:57 Judicator wrote:
RoB isn't a shitty item, its the +6 damage you get in place of the 0.65 mps, you don't use it to spam you use it just because its there and if you have any sense of mana conservation and spell timing it is more than enough.
With that being said, if you need to spam, get a bottle or clarities.
Nulls/bracers also provide 6 damage, but give you 78/39 mana and extra 57/114 hp + some regen, which is quite better than just a low mana regen and some armor(which is not effective early game when you have low hp and does not help vs spells at all).
RoB does help your lane partner, but still the bonuses are rather miserable 
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On July 16 2007 12:21 lololol wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2007 05:57 Judicator wrote:
RoB isn't a shitty item, its the +6 damage you get in place of the 0.65 mps, you don't use it to spam you use it just because its there and if you have any sense of mana conservation and spell timing it is more than enough.
With that being said, if you need to spam, get a bottle or clarities. Nulls/bracers also provide 6 damage, but give you 78/39 mana and extra 57/114 hp + some regen, which is quite better than just a low mana regen and some armor(which is not effective early game when you have low hp and does not help vs spells at all). RoB does help your lane partner, but still the bonuses are rather miserable
Except 0.65 regen is still faster than what most non-int heroes can muster at the early game, obviously 1.20 combined regen that early for a dual lane can be situationally better depending on who you have.
Its not a great starting item, but not that bad either.
BKB stops some Bashes as some have a spell trigger with divine damage, nothing stops Doom short of a Linkens (Not Repel either).
RPF my advice to you is to read through the list of spells as it will determine what items you get, IE going Hood against Silencer.
Second thing to consider the stats vs. damage vs. utility; stat items (SnY, Skadi) typically don't give you great damage unless you have good growth in your primary stat, same applies to Skadi, to me these items are middle of the road items, giving a balance between the two; damage items (Stygian, Radiance, MKB, Buriza) give you lots of damage but can make you a glass bitch if you get chained stunned and ff-ed; utility items various stuff that typically make you more helpful in a team fight.
A few items you should know/learn how to use is Necrobook, Meka (use it fairly early in a fight not when everyones almost dead, as in try to get the most out of the heal and most out of its armor bonus), and Euls/Sheepstick/Diffusal as in actually use the damn thing.
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On July 15 2007 14:03 LastWish wrote:
What is all this branch thing?
It really is a stupid way to go, even if you want to go meka later.
Commonly first items are tangos and mana potions.
How many? It depends.. usually 2x tango, and potions up to your active spell.
For example I usually get 4 potions with bounty hunter.
Vengeful spirit can go for many manas too and spam bolts.
Now next item can be a empty bottle for some heroes, for example : vengeful spirit, chaos knight, spectre, sven could too... heroes that require mana for spells early and they aren't int + arcane would be a waste for them.
Nerubian assasin, Tiny go for arcane.
I'm never sure what to buy for omni knight in the beginning, and his skill choices always differ such a omni hero.
Tormented soul build :
- 2x Tango, 3x mana
- boots or energy booster
- arcane ring
- 2x bracer if needed(usually is)
- ring of regeneration into meka
- void stone in the meantime, if you're doing well BoT instead(can be even before meka)
- HoT and Assault
- ?Skadi
Skill choice for me : lightning(for great range abuse, damage and 5 second cooldown), explosions(towers, killing creeps/heroes)
Spectre build :
- tangos, potions(aren't that necessary)
- empty bottle
- power threads
- bracers if needed or stout shield
- mask of madness if you are doing fine
- +10 armor to be tough or more hp
- damage item
...
Skill choice : Dagger and Desolate
A BIG ROFL FOR LESHRECH BUILD!
A EVEN BIGGER ROFLLMAO FOR SPECTRE BUILD O.o!!!!!!!
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On July 16 2007 13:16 Judicator wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2007 12:21 lololol wrote:On July 16 2007 05:57 Judicator wrote:
RoB isn't a shitty item, its the +6 damage you get in place of the 0.65 mps, you don't use it to spam you use it just because its there and if you have any sense of mana conservation and spell timing it is more than enough.
With that being said, if you need to spam, get a bottle or clarities. Nulls/bracers also provide 6 damage, but give you 78/39 mana and extra 57/114 hp + some regen, which is quite better than just a low mana regen and some armor(which is not effective early game when you have low hp and does not help vs spells at all). RoB does help your lane partner, but still the bonuses are rather miserable Except 0.65 regen is still faster than what most non-int heroes can muster at the early game, obviously 1.20 combined regen that early for a dual lane can be situationally better depending on who you have. Its not a great starting item, but not that bad either. BKB stops some Bashes as some have a spell trigger with divine damage, nothing stops Doom short of a Linkens (Not Repel either). RPF my advice to you is to read through the list of spells as it will determine what items you get, IE going Hood against Silencer. Second thing to consider the stats vs. damage vs. utility; stat items (SnY, Skadi) typically don't give you great damage unless you have good growth in your primary stat, same applies to Skadi, to me these items are middle of the road items, giving a balance between the two; damage items (Stygian, Radiance, MKB, Buriza) give you lots of damage but can make you a glass bitch if you get chained stunned and ff-ed; utility items various stuff that typically make you more helpful in a team fight. A few items you should know/learn how to use is Necrobook, Meka (use it fairly early in a fight not when everyones almost dead, as in try to get the most out of the heal and most out of its armor bonus), and Euls/Sheepstick/Diffusal as in actually use the damn thing.
The extra maximum mana a null provides(which can be used immediately) is worth 2 minutes of RoB's regen and it also provides 0.24 mana regen that is increased by % increasing items
BKB stops only ranged hero bashes, melee ones go trough everytime, they are just the default bash from the game, they are not triggered(the SB greater bash is triggered ofc, since it's obviously something else). Doom is reduced by spell resistance, so the best counter is getting a hood for a 30% damage decrease.
Hood against Silencer is useless, since his glaive's damage is not reduced by magic resistance, what will help you is hp increase and skills that negate/evade damage/attacks.
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On July 16 2007 13:25 yisun518 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2007 14:03 LastWish wrote:
What is all this branch thing?
It really is a stupid way to go, even if you want to go meka later.
Commonly first items are tangos and mana potions.
How many? It depends.. usually 2x tango, and potions up to your active spell.
For example I usually get 4 potions with bounty hunter.
Vengeful spirit can go for many manas too and spam bolts.
Now next item can be a empty bottle for some heroes, for example : vengeful spirit, chaos knight, spectre, sven could too... heroes that require mana for spells early and they aren't int + arcane would be a waste for them.
Nerubian assasin, Tiny go for arcane.
I'm never sure what to buy for omni knight in the beginning, and his skill choices always differ such a omni hero.
Tormented soul build :
- 2x Tango, 3x mana
- boots or energy booster
- arcane ring
- 2x bracer if needed(usually is)
- ring of regeneration into meka
- void stone in the meantime, if you're doing well BoT instead(can be even before meka)
- HoT and Assault
- ?Skadi
Skill choice for me : lightning(for great range abuse, damage and 5 second cooldown), explosions(towers, killing creeps/heroes)
Spectre build :
- tangos, potions(aren't that necessary)
- empty bottle
- power threads
- bracers if needed or stout shield
- mask of madness if you are doing fine
- +10 armor to be tough or more hp
- damage item
...
Skill choice : Dagger and Desolate
A BIG ROFL FOR LESHRECH BUILD! A EVEN BIGGER ROFLLMAO FOR SPECTRE BUILD O.o!!!!!!!
Really scary. I didn't know anyone would do that...
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why do you have dota in maps/downloads nub!1
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Besides you arent RPF, wtf i said him only;o
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Strafe, you're fucking awesome.
Edit: Razor for newbie.w3g 
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i was just playing a non important game to get my mind of studying, cant say i actually tried, but they sucked and all you wanted was a build;) besides you can see how to deny a little as far as im doing that
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I'd love to see any other replays you have, of serious games or otherwise.
I'm actually pretty happy that most of the things I do as far as builds go are pretty much what others do, so I guess I'm not so bad at builds.
Now I just have to get better at team tactics.
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EPT
