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On September 06 2007 11:25 TheMango wrote:
Elemonope... you should almost never get butterfly as your 1st item after boots/treads... in fact I wouldn't even get treads on him, you definitely want BoT on BS for the MS and map control (he has a pretty fast ult cool down). I personally wouldn't even get butterfly as my 2nd or 3rd item.
I play BS like this: get stats items (circlets) -> wraith or bracer(s), skip altogether if you're farming really well and go straight radiance -> BoT -> then you can get w/e you want (s&y, mkb, burize, butterfly, AC, etc).
For sandking, I play him as a tank/support hero... tangos/clarity -> bottle -> blink, then euls -> BoT -> vanguard and/or heart, finish guinsoo when you run out of euls charges, and then w/e you want. This build is really for 'teamplay'. It works really well imo, especially since hes not really a 'carry' hero.
Why skip over PT in favor of BoT though? With PT, once thirst kicks in, you have over maximum move speed anyway unless something was changed recently, and you get the increased attack speed, though I'm not sure exactly what the range required for thirst to take effect, but it seems well off. I agree his ulti CD is low, but that makes it seem more in favor of jungling and ambushing with the mechanics of rupture. I agree that farming for butterfly first after boots/treads seems to be a waste, but I wasn't sure exactly what I should go for. With you mentioning radiance, I remember one game in which I did have it and it did help a lot, however, I wasn't sure if SnY would help out more in comparison to a single basher+hyperstone. Granted, I haven't been playing long so it may seem like a dumb question, but a good explanation would be nice [only good part about bs is that he's easy to play imo so many people still run and die from rupture itself and I don't even have to bother chasing -.-]
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On September 06 2007 18:12 BlueRoyaL wrote:
You can have any orb items you want. you can put any items you want in your inventory. Melee units can only have one orb item. Whatever is placed first will have that orb used. Ranged characters can have two orbs if one of them is skadi because basically skadi doesn't count as an orb for ranged (eg: potm with skadi and mjollnir).
Most of the time, it's a waste to get 2 orb items for any hero (exception of the skadi on ranged) because most good orb items are expensive, due to the orb effect they give you, not the small attack/stats boost or whatever. so after you get your 1 orb, farm other items that are more beneficial to your hero
Not true.
There are very specific orb priority tables...
Items
Skills
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On September 06 2007 13:54 BlueRoyaL wrote:
rpf, what do you mean focus on auto attack? you should never auto attack unless like late game you can kill every creep in 2-3 hits by auto attacking. to maximize your farming, you need to last hit mostly all throughout the game.
auto attack = never do it Sorry, I should have clarified. I never autoattack creeps unless I'm pushing a lane back.
When I said "focus on autoattack," I meant when you're fighting another player.
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please suggest me a solid item build on the storm panda!
i read much about it, but everyone has a different opinion..
first player says rush to maelstrom, seconds says skadi + buriza
third : MKB...
every build starts with two bracers + boot of course.
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Elemenope, do not get an SnY on bloodseeker. Think about it: The nature of rupture is for your damage to kick in the more distance they create [ aka running ] by getting a maim you are causing him to create much less distance thereby causing less damage. You may think that the maim actually helps though since rupture does damage AND you are able to reach him to hit him as he runs, but in reality nobody [ other than pubbers ] will run through your rupture unless absolutely necessary. Therefore, you need rupture to do as much damage as possible while getting a much better item [ FOR NEARLY THE SAME PRICE AS SNY ] such as radiance so you can hit them with radiance's shine damage while you run with them.
Not only does getting a radiance give you more damage output it also lets you get a much better orb item such as manta.
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BoT is just better than treads on almost every character except Furion. The +15% IAS really isn't that huge of a difference, but the 35 more MS means you can chase them further for the kill. It also helps your mobility a lot, allowing you to push, defend, and farm very efficiently.
Although someone already stated this, you can only have 1 orb at one time, and each one has different priority. Sometimes it depends on which slot its in, or which orb it is, or whether or not it procs. Actually, there's two separate things, Attack Buffers and Orbs, and you can have one of each. Ranged Skadi is an attack buff so you can stack it with an Orb, but Melee Skadi is both an Orb and an Attack Buff, so it doesn't stack with anything.
Getting Bracers depends on how the game is going, If your team is owning, then you can probably skip it and just go blink and BoT for ganking. I assume when you say Autoattack you're reffering to DPS, or people who are primarily responsible for the dealing the damage to the other team.
Radiance allows you to deal more damage than SnY by a considerable amount, and the best part is you farm like a god once you get it. The only benefit that SnY really gives that I can see is MS, otherwise its just a little bit of everything. You should be faster than them already from Thirst, and you can just chase them down and kill them.
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treads is 35% ias & +65 ms -__-
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On September 07 2007 01:26 Ack1027 wrote:
Elemenope, do not get an SnY on bloodseeker. Think about it: The nature of rupture is for your damage to kick in the more distance they create [ aka running ] by getting a maim you are causing him to create much less distance thereby causing less damage. You may think that the maim actually helps though since rupture does damage AND you are able to reach him to hit him as he runs, but in reality nobody [ other than pubbers ] will run through your rupture unless absolutely necessary. Therefore, you need rupture to do as much damage as possible while getting a much better item [ FOR NEARLY THE SAME PRICE AS SNY ] such as radiance so you can hit them with radiance's shine damage while you run with them.
Not only does getting a radiance give you more damage output it also lets you get a much better orb item such as manta.
Agreed with this, Radiance is the #1 best first item for Bs. I get a couple bracers, maybe 3 if I'm having a super hard time, and go for radiance. Radiance helps because #1 you're a chaser and #2 you are a shitty farmer. After that you can go for BoT or a different damage item depending on the game. They nerfed him since I last played him (a looong time ago, admittedly) but back then when he had his full aura on he had 512 movespeed without treads so he didn't need anything but BoT ever. I understand now his aura thing has been nerfed but he's still faster than 90% of heros when he's chasing.
As for SnY, it's a good "newbie" item or "difficult game item" because each part costs very little and it's easy to make/farm up. However almost every hero has a much much better item for about the same price. The only hero I get SnY on consistently is bounty hunter.
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everything SnY gives you works against what BS is about. you don't need the 10% MS boost because you already get so much from your passive
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On September 07 2007 01:26 Ack1027 wrote:
Elemenope, do not get an SnY on bloodseeker. Think about it: The nature of rupture is for your damage to kick in the more distance they create [ aka running ] by getting a maim you are causing him to create much less distance thereby causing less damage. You may think that the maim actually helps though since rupture does damage AND you are able to reach him to hit him as he runs, but in reality nobody [ other than pubbers ] will run through your rupture unless absolutely necessary. Therefore, you need rupture to do as much damage as possible while getting a much better item [ FOR NEARLY THE SAME PRICE AS SNY ] such as radiance so you can hit them with radiance's shine damage while you run with them.
Not only does getting a radiance give you more damage output it also lets you get a much better orb item such as manta.
Actually depending on how you build Seeker talent wise, SnY might not be such a bad item set, Rupture against better players acts more as a snare than a bleeding ulti, any damage you get from the bleed part is just bonus. That being said, if you go max out bath and then do stats and the damage ampy skill with only a point in thirst (or none), SnY will complement what you need to do very well. Quite honestly it depends on how well you are farming, either can work with Seeker.
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i love how ppl are always saying bot owns treads on all heroes except furion......these ppl phail
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On September 07 2007 04:11 terr13 wrote:
BoT is just better than treads on almost every character except Furion. The +15% IAS really isn't that huge of a difference, but the 35 more MS means you can chase them further for the kill. It also helps your mobility a lot, allowing you to push, defend, and farm very efficiently.
On September 07 2007 05:07 paper wrote:
treads is 35% ias & +65 ms -__-
ya 90-65 is 25 more ms, i guess just a calculation error there.
his "+15% IAS" refers to the additional IAS from the "OLD" tread when upgraded from glove (so terr13 is probably an oldschool player", you can get the glove for the initial 15%, and the other 20% isnt much honestly. map control is more important than puny little atk speed. you have tread, enemy have BoT, he outruns you, u use ulti, he teleports. if you come with a group to gank, whole team with BoT teleport to rescue their team mate in danger, and totally own your gank team instead. mobility > everything. You just dont need the extra atk speed and movespeed, if ur a dmg hero, farm the dmg item, then upgrade to BoT once you have the big items.
On September 07 2007 21:41 brambolius wrote:
i love how ppl are always saying bot owns treads on all heroes except furion......these ppl phail
you sir fails.
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please suggest me a decent build on Storm Spirit! this hero is cute and fun
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On September 07 2007 23:13 freelander wrote:
please suggest me a decent build on Storm Spirit! this hero is cute and fun
ror or circlet tango.
surge stomp skill max ofc.. + stats or shield up to line up. hyperstone or midas into maelstrom, while getting the channeling 80% atk speed skills as you see fit (provided u have enough hp from stats that you desire)
from here, u can upgrade maelstrom with the eaglehorn, but it might not be the best option yet, since ur not agility hero. burize or guinsoo here works, then into majornir. get BoT somewhere here, and you can kill most heroes with the chasing speed, surge with incredible atk speed and ulti-blink.
from here on... lets say u have BoT, hyperstone, majornir, burize/guinsoo (up to enemy lineup) and you have 2 more splots, i would say heart, assault to become a super tank with majornir's shield. The last item doesnt really matter much, you can carry an aegis, or get butterfly/hyper again or just get mkb.... at this point anything works, UNLESS enemies have super disable, which means you would've needed BKB at some point during the game, which could take up the "6th" slot. there were a couple of games that i got bkb after hyper maelstrom due huge enemy caster/disabler lineup.
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you guys make big posts;o
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strafe, do you live in another dimension wtf it's hard to get a game with you.
because we've been GGC'ing lately, a good portion of our bnet contacts are lost so it's basically tl mixed with pubs. Let's get a good lc host and go back to bnet o_o
Here are games from today (6.48b)
Queen of Pain 2 Replay
I solo mid with relative ease against vengeful (who later switches lanes) and weaver and carry team to victory 
since they have ogre/vs I wanted linken's (sniper's ministun > linken's but at least it blocks assassinate)
item: tangos/clarities/branches --> 2 bracer --> linken's --> necronomicon --> BoT --> MKB or radiance --> win, and somewhere in between, boots
skill: blink/fear/fear/ss/fear/ss/fear/ss/ss/ult/ult/~blink
two most basic things when playing QoP:
1) using mana wisely: I see newbs just blink in and fear only to find out they have no mana left to blink away (even if it's lvl 1 blink) This depends on the situation of course. For example I wouldn't need to worry about what happens when I blink up the ramp early game since it's unlikely an enemy from another lane will come out of the trees to stun me. If you're chasing near death, make sure you have 200 (60+140) or more mana so you dont get owned after you blink in.
2) using blink wisely: especially while your blink is lvl 1, you're often better off walking until you encounter someone. Use trees and cliffs to your advantage. Once you get linken's bad blinks should be less fatal unless they have a shitload of disables.
Funny I should say this since my first death is the result of an idiotic blink. I do that in friendly games, play carelessly ;p
Lich Replay
One of the easier heroes that doesn't take much practice... Solo mid again, and for some reason scourge sent witch doctor solo instead of viper vs me. Needless to say, he got raped.
depending on the game I'll go mek first but since I farmed a good amount of money I went blink dagger first
item: RoR + 2 branches --> dagger --> finish mek --> soul booster --> BoT --> aghanims --> necronomicon
skill: DR/nova/nova/DR/nova/CF/nova/DR/DR/stats/FC/get 1 pt of frost armor when you think it'll come in handy and rest stats
get obs wards to put on their ramp, this is useful for just about all ranged soloers in mid lane
Even though lich has dark ritual, you need to choose when to nuke. Best time to nuke is when his creep wave is all dead or mostly dead so you can get free hits in afterwards. Then you also want to save up mana at lvl 5 before you hit 6 so you can double nuke for possible kill. Also, I DR the ranged creeps when my mana is full since they are harder to deny.
Shadow Fiend Replay
I don't play much shadow fiend but I find him pretty straightforward. Abuse imba dmg and cheap ass shadowraze!
I start off with 3 agi boots + 2 tangos but if I were playing against better opponents I would've traded 1 of the agi boots for extra tangos
item: bottle --> 3 wraith bands --> blink dagger --> BoT --> vitality booster --> diffusal --> heart --> hyperstone (for assault cuirass)
skadi on SF is bad imo. Takes forever and it's just not manly enough. deso hurts a lot but then again diffusal is more interesting
To be honest, I don't play SF often enough to have item builds in my head so this game I kind of improvised, SF has shit low hp so sometimes I go vanguard if they have a lot of combat heroes as opposed to nukers but even a vitality booster (later used for manta/heart) will help tons.
skill: alternate between necro mastery and shadowraze until lvl 8, ult at lvl 9/11 and stats until you think you can take some hits
Ok, I've been playing a lot of heroes I don't usually pick for TL <3 so I think I'll try going back to heroes that suit my style the best!
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heenie weenie let's play :}
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Bump.
What do you all think of the new items?
- Treads: I really like these now. I wasn't a big fan of them before, but the attack speed and ability to change the stat it uses it pretty cool.
- Shiva's: I love this on heroes like Silencer, or any other int hero without a reliable way to chase people. The armor is great if the other team isn't full of casters and nukers.
- Malevolence: Only used it once, but it seems great for any int auto-attacker with a nuke. I used it with a dagon once; it was fun.
- Armlet: Sucks. Every now and then someone will build one, and then they die because they forget to turn it off.
I have a couple of other questions, which will probably seem...nitpicky. Mostly because I'm an analytical, nitpicky, perfectionist.
1. If you're going scepter...
- What starting items do you buy?
- Do you buy a sobi or void stone? If so, when?
2. What do higher level players buy for starting items?
- Some people tell me to buy branches, and sell them one by one as I don't need them, as obviously +5 is pretty significant early on, but mid-late game +5 is pretty insignificant.
- I see most people buy circlets and tangoes, but I don't know if that's a "pub" thing or whatever.
I've tried downloading some higher level replays, but sometimes they won't play for some reason. I'll have to figure that out. :/
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treads i get more often now, the +stats is really nice, and being able to change it without rebuilding it. shivas is nice, but i think the items required need to be changed. malevolence is awesome for ints, but other items beforehand are usually better imo. i only like armlet on certain heros.
branches, tangos, clarities, ror, bottle. that's basically the items i get depending on my hero/other team heros. +stats and regen early is usually the best so you can stay in a lane longer.
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EPT
