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[H] DotA items - Page 24

Forum Index > General Games
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KOFgokuon
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States14912 Posts
September 04 2007 21:25 GMT
#461
You could also not make up such stringent rules and be more flexible and adapt when you play
You seem to be trying to make everything completely analytical and come up with a perfect build, or a perfect solution, when in reality it's a fluid game, things change, and you can't just stick to one build order all the time
JeeJee
Profile Blog Joined July 2003
Canada5652 Posts
Last Edited: 2007-09-04 22:38:24
September 04 2007 22:32 GMT
#462
@rpf
you can't simplify dota like this
there are many, many heroes which fall into more than one of those categories. what's a necrolic to you, a caster? he's as much a tank as he is a caster. what about clinkz, autoattack? without his spells he's nothing. how about the sandking? hp like a tank, 2+1 godly spells like a caster (on which he relies to support, tank and get kills) and an orb which is directly based on his autoattack
there's many, many more. in fact, i'd be inclined to say the majority of dota heroes are not one-type. i can't think of even 1 one-type hero right now.. maybe n'aix as autoattack..hmm

you'd be hard pressed to convince me to get a RoB on a tiny/potm/luna instead of bottle/arcane ring. rob regen is terrible. that 1 extra nuke every few minutes, that'll make all the difference that will.

edit: typos
(\o/)  If you want it, you find a way. Otherwise you find excuses. No exceptions.
 /_\   aka Shinbi (requesting a name change since 27/05/09 ☺)
rpf
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
United States2705 Posts
September 04 2007 22:39 GMT
#463
Touche.

I didn't really think about those things. :/
"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." - Sigmund Freud
Auspicious
Profile Joined August 2007
United States175 Posts
September 05 2007 01:12 GMT
#464
Arcane is not just for chain nuker, it can be for anyone who needs the mana. Like getting arcane on a Potm can be a good idea. You're not really "chaining" but you're gonna want to use arrow and starfall a lot, and they take up your mana fast.
You don't fuck around with the infinite.
terr13
Profile Joined April 2007
United States298 Posts
September 05 2007 04:08 GMT
#465
Arcane Ring is usually not used that much on heroes, since the other mana items give more. Zeus and PotM can use it well though. Ring of Basilius isn't also just for you, it gives that helps lanemates, which is why I would get RoB on Lina when laning with another spellcaster. Perseverance is a good early game item, and if you're going to get a refresher later, it may be beneficial to start off with perseverance for lane stayability and spamming spells. PotM does kind of chain nukes, arrow to starfall is a chain since they can't do anything when they're stunned for 5 seconds.
BlueRoyaL
Profile Blog Joined February 2006
United States2493 Posts
September 05 2007 04:33 GMT
#466
arcane is good for any heroes that need the mana (due to low intel growth) and have a few spells they can use often. you also get it strategically in the game depending on who you lane with so both of you can benefit from it
WHAT'S HAPPENIN
Heen
Profile Blog Joined November 2003
Korea (South)2178 Posts
September 05 2007 05:53 GMT
#467
k I'm working on those replays that people requested. School started so I'll need some time >_<

Perseverance is a pretty weak build on most heroes. You're better off with +stats items and bottle/other form of regen. Void stone doesn't help that much at early stages since it's relative to your mana.

So when I go linken's on QoP for instance, I will go RoH --> ultimate orb --> voidstone --> linken's

Besides, bfury/refresher/linken are only 'needed' for a few heroes. I think a lot of people have the misconception that perseverance will let them stay in lane infinitely, while spamming their skills to pressure opponents. But this is bad theory crafting. Your regen will be useless in an actual fight. Since you invested so much into perseverance, assuming you worked your way straight to it, you'll be behind in stats.
('''(G_G/'''')
Heen
Profile Blog Joined November 2003
Korea (South)2178 Posts
September 05 2007 22:19 GMT
#468
Alright here are some games I played in the past 2 days. I wish I could have saved more but a lot of the games I play tend to be one-sided and that's boring. Most of these games are -rd

Faerie Dragon replay

skill: max orb first, then wane, then phase shift and get ult at 6/11/16

faerie is very fragile because of his pathetic str gain so you need to compensate for that by getting +stat items:

bracers
linkens
skadi

In this particular game, farmed farmed farmed and went 3 bracers + BoT --> Skadi since I got off to a good start which meant that I was higher lvl, so I wanted map control.

Ogre Magi replay

I got stuck with Lion who sucked on bottom as scourge. Ogre magi is kind of like the int version of spectre: sucks at farming but one he gets his gear/lvl on, he'll go on a rampage.

Anyway, things look pretty bad for my team in the beginning, especially with a few idiotic deaths for me, although the 1st one is mainly due to lion's incompetence.

build: arcane --> aghanims --> BoT or/and dagger --> guinsoos

Depends on the situation but I like to go mystic staff before any of the boosters because ogre is a shitty farmer and farming is usually safer early game. And ogre has a buttload of str and crappy mana pool so he can afford to go mystic first.

Once you get aghanim's there should be a big difference in game flow since he becomes pretty imba.

Tormented Soul replay

I love tormented soul! Unfortunately, scourge had anti-mage who free farmed more than he should have been allowed. I also underestimated my opponents since I have a tendency to label ppl who have numbers in their akas newb >_< lesson learned

Notice how I don't get aghanim's for a long time since antimage was getting out of control -_-;

This game was frustrating really, since I was doing my part but my teammates weren't doing theirs very well. Who the fuck picks alchemist anyway It has a lot of action so I thought it was worth saving although some of my deaths are pretty embarassing.

skill: stun + lightning if you have a laning partner, who has slow/disable

otherwise I go lightning + diabloic if I'm soloing:

lightning/diabolic/L/D/D/L/D/L/stun/pulse nova/pulse nova

item: tangos + clarities + branches --> bottle --> bracers --> blink dagger --> BoT --> soul booster --> depends on matchup

Zeus replay

Zeus is an easy hero to understand. Deal damage? -_-

arc/bolt/bolt/static/bolt/wrath/bolt/static/static/static/wrath/stats until you can afford to spam higher lvl arc lightning

item: arcane ring --> blink dagger --> soul booster --> BoT/eul's etc.

Actually, this game is pretty short and to make it worse, pretty one-sided. I'll try to get more zeus games but I'm playing mostly -rd so I can only hope he'll show up often

Zeus has a pretty sick casting range (thank god, since he's one of the shittiest int laners) so learn to keep your distance since you're quite fragile early on. A neat trick when you're chasing someone who's near death that keeps escaping your vision (tree hugging/higher grounds) is to ult for vision followed by bolt to finish. There's an example of that when I kill ursa near top rune spot.

Queen of Pain replay

This is a version 6.41 replay that I had lying around. It's outdated but it shouldn't be too bad. After they nerfed shadow strike, I max fear first, followed by max ss and lvl 1 blink and ult at lvl 10 and 11.

I'll have better replays of QoP coming so watch if you're bored :p

She needs as much hp/mana she can get which is why skadi/linken's/aghanim's are popular on her. I usually get one of those followed up by necronomicon/guinsoos/whatever
('''(G_G/'''')
Equinox_kr
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
United States7395 Posts
September 05 2007 22:22 GMT
#469
Holy crap Heen, great write up

I better try Ogre Magi and Tormented Soul soon; for some reason whenever I see other people's builds they all seem so much more exciting in comparison to mine -_-;;;
^-^
rpf
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
United States2705 Posts
September 05 2007 23:01 GMT
#470
Heen, I've got a question for you, so I hope it makes sense.

Anyways, I've noticed generally you're either going to focus on your autoattack, or you'll focus on your abilities. Heroes like Razor and Drow focus on their autoattack generally, whereas heroes like Axe or Zeus don't.

My usual build is usually dual bracer/boots --> heart/bfly/guin depending on main stat (obviously I don't this for EVERY hero)

But say I'm playing a hero like Zeus where you want to focus on their abilities, and go arcane/sce[ter, for example. Do you still get bracers?

See, usually you're getting the bracers because you need the boost to your health early game, whereas late game that ~200 HP isn't really useful anymore (many DPS heroes hit for that much past L20ish).

So on Axe, for example, if I was to follow my "usual build," I'd end up with 2 bracers, boots, and then be working on a vanguard and dagger since those are clearly core items for Axe. But the HP is redundant, and the stats aren't a huge benefit since Axe focuses more on his abilities, not on his autoattack.

Does any of this rambling make sense? I guess my personal playstyle was always to play a hero based on their attack, not on their abilities. :/
"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." - Sigmund Freud
Elemenope
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
Burkina Faso1704 Posts
September 05 2007 23:21 GMT
#471
What's a good standard build for bs? I usually go Power treads->butterfly->hyperstone/Buriza, but I'm not so sure if this is fine, or what my other items should be. Anybody have some insight? And what about sk? I understand he should get a blink dagger at least so he can cast Epicenter out of sight then blink in, but what are some other good items for him?
In DotA you could
paper
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
13197 Posts
Last Edited: 2007-09-06 01:52:12
September 06 2007 00:11 GMT
#472
rpf -- you can skimp on bracers but you're going to be the first to die in any battle without any +hp items, esp since zeus has no escape mechanism (and even with ;p). you can argue that +200 hp is nearly void in comparison to the high damage output of heroes as the game progresses, but face it, you can't play the game without taking a beating, and the bracers definitely help you survive.

also, there have been so many incidents where i've survived with <200 hp with two bracers in my inventory.


Elemenope -- heen suggests DAGON BRUDSEKER KEKEKEKE <^_^>

as for SK, all i need is a bottle w/ a dagger and i'm set :}
Hates Fun🤔
Judicator
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States7270 Posts
September 06 2007 02:23 GMT
#473
Meh, depends on your teamwork for bracers, if they are going through your team to get to you, your team better have gotten a 2+ to 1 trade for it. I mean, the HP items comes out ot be more useful when you are being ganked than in a team fight, you should be able to manage in a team fight with proper teamwork, unless your hero has just absolutely shit HP growth.
Get it by your hands...
TheMango
Profile Joined April 2007
United States1967 Posts
September 06 2007 02:25 GMT
#474
Elemonope... you should almost never get butterfly as your 1st item after boots/treads... in fact I wouldn't even get treads on him, you definitely want BoT on BS for the MS and map control (he has a pretty fast ult cool down). I personally wouldn't even get butterfly as my 2nd or 3rd item.

I play BS like this: get stats items (circlets) -> wraith or bracer(s), skip altogether if you're farming really well and go straight radiance -> BoT -> then you can get w/e you want (s&y, mkb, burize, butterfly, AC, etc).

For sandking, I play him as a tank/support hero... tangos/clarity -> bottle -> blink, then euls -> BoT -> vanguard and/or heart, finish guinsoo when you run out of euls charges, and then w/e you want. This build is really for 'teamplay'. It works really well imo, especially since hes not really a 'carry' hero.
Moderator
TheMango
Profile Joined April 2007
United States1967 Posts
September 06 2007 02:28 GMT
#475
rpf, like everyone has been saying to you, adjust according to the game... you may have to get a bracer or two on zeus if the situation warrants it depending on your lane/enemy team heroes. But if you follow heen's build order, I dont see a need for it in most cases. You should be playing pretty conservatively early on... in a tough lane, hang back and last hit creeps with arc and tower hug until u get blink.
Moderator
BlueRoyaL
Profile Blog Joined February 2006
United States2493 Posts
September 06 2007 04:54 GMT
#476
rpf, what do you mean focus on auto attack? you should never auto attack unless like late game you can kill every creep in 2-3 hits by auto attacking. to maximize your farming, you need to last hit mostly all throughout the game.

auto attack = never do it
WHAT'S HAPPENIN
Heen
Profile Blog Joined November 2003
Korea (South)2178 Posts
September 06 2007 05:59 GMT
#477
The way I see it, bracers and other stats items are for:

1) improved last hitting, heroes with good attack animation usually mass +stat items because they are usually carry and need to farm something big

2) survivability, 200 hp does help, especially against 1 man ganks. This is very important since it's much more difficult to avoid a 1 man gank than a 2-3 man gank. It's not worth it to play conservatively with 500 hp vs lina/nerubian assassin/tiny You're going to die sooner or later and you miss a lot of farming opportunities because you have to be a pussy.

As for seeker, I actually do go dagon on him. It's incredilbly useful when you need to kill someone who's at ~300 hp but you can't do it by hitting him (ie. luna or axe when you're also low hp) He's the only hero I go dagon on reguarly, I think. That followed by radiance and often blink dagger and BoT.
('''(G_G/'''')
SK.Testie
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
Canada11084 Posts
September 06 2007 06:04 GMT
#478
Heen, perhaps you should join MYM's dota team...
Social Justice is a fools errand. May all the adherents at its church be thwarted. Of all the religions I have come across, it is by far the most detestable.
Chewits
Profile Joined September 2006
Northern Ireland1200 Posts
September 06 2007 08:06 GMT
#479
Got a bit of a newbie question. Still learning. Can you have two orb effect items in your inventory? For example say, Satanic and Mask of madness? Or does it mean "cannot stack" meaning you cant have two of the same items?
Whats the altitude?
BlueRoyaL
Profile Blog Joined February 2006
United States2493 Posts
September 06 2007 09:12 GMT
#480
You can have any orb items you want. you can put any items you want in your inventory. Melee units can only have one orb item. Whatever is placed first will have that orb used. Ranged characters can have two orbs if one of them is skadi because basically skadi doesn't count as an orb for ranged (eg: potm with skadi and mjollnir).

Most of the time, it's a waste to get 2 orb items for any hero (exception of the skadi on ranged) because most good orb items are expensive, due to the orb effect they give you, not the small attack/stats boost or whatever. so after you get your 1 orb, farm other items that are more beneficial to your hero
WHAT'S HAPPENIN
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