EPTStreet Fighter 3: Third Strike Emulated! - Page 44
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CharlieMurphy
United States22895 Posts
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myrmidon2537
Philippines2188 Posts
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thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
Thank god only like 3-5 people in the world can use it consistently. | ||
jkillashark
United States5262 Posts
....... but Abare Tosanami is still a pimp super with it's super insane stun juggles. =] | ||
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dropthesky
Canada285 Posts
On November 06 2007 19:43 myrmidon2537 wrote: Ken and Makoto are probably better characters than Yun and Chun in general. The only thing that makes yun deadly is Genei-Jin and Chun, while fabulous at poking and with her kara-throws, has no real damage dealer outside SAII You sir know next to nothing about third strike. Ken and Mokoto being better all around chars then Chun and Yun is a retarded statement. | ||
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myrmidon2537
Philippines2188 Posts
On November 07 2007 01:12 dropthesky wrote: You sir no next to nothing about third strike. Ken and Mokoto being better all around chars then Chun and Yun is a retarded statement. That's a general statement, more or less taking into consideration the fact that you are playing against someone with equal skill then you don't pick the optimal super for your character. Everyone knows Yun is very very average without Genei-Jin and Chun has no major damage options without SAII. almost Anything Ken can link to shippu can be linked to Shoryuu (and even kara-shoryuu) for good damage and his ex moves are still very good. Of course since all good Yun and chun have access to the said supers. this is a moot point anyway. I personally agreed when Rockefeller was talking about this in his podcast. | ||
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dropthesky
Canada285 Posts
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myrmidon2537
Philippines2188 Posts
with regards to there being 3 super options. Ken would fare better if you picked a super rather than 3 compared to Yun other than 3 and Chun other than 2. Can we at least agree on that? I'm not going to deny the fact that Yun and Chun are still the best in the game. I play Makoto/Yun for what it's worth. Makoto's normals are quite good, decent range and recovery. Good for ticking and mixups (jab tick to karakusa is just annoying. Meaty strong is quite good) Chun's poking can get you only soooo far. Yes she has the best normals, but What else could she do for damage? Anti-Air SA1? c.mk to Ex SBK? back fierce to Fireball? O_o | ||
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KOFgokuon
United States14904 Posts
that's just a pointless comparison that's like saying take terran's best unit out of the game, then zerg and protoss would annihilate them | ||
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myrmidon2537
Philippines2188 Posts
Anyway, outside that one little theory fighter moment of mine I think we can pretty much agree on how Yun Chun and Ken are undeniably the best characters in the end because those things that make them strong exist and are not banned in high level play and I wouldn't have it any other way (well, maybe seeing Yang have GJ and how Second Impact Sean would fare in this cast, but that's the job of mugen and I hate mugen) | ||
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thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
And your argument of taking away a character's SA's, "just for arguments sake" by definition is fruitless and pointless, as KOFgokuon has already stated. If the best players truly thought that yun's SA, chun's normals and others' unblockables were imbalanced and were a serious detriment to the game, then the standard game version in tournament play would not be the first edition of the game, but rather subsequent ones where yun's genei damange reduction is far more severe, chun's chuuashi's cancel frames shorter, and unblockables not existing. it doesnt matter how good your yun combos are if you cant get into them (like we saw in the vision ranbat from 10-13 I believe, one of the unknown yuns was just horrible getting into the combo itself), and chunli is all about spacing and confirmations, which are both tremendously demanding on the mechanics and concentration of the player, much more so than a makoto or dudley, who are regarded as "ro shan bo" characters where if you "guess right" twice in one match you have the game won. That's right, these characters get you wins from what is essentially a CHANCE factor, rather than ability, skill, or mechanical proficiency. | ||
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myrmidon2537
Philippines2188 Posts
Anyway, I just threw that out there and I pretty much do understand all of what you just typed. I guess this is why theory fighter (in general) usually fails on so many levels, from "No super 3s" to that "system adjust" 3s (the one where people thought about adjusting stuff like a set super bar length for all chars, All supers available for all chars, whiffs don't build meter etc.). I tend to take part in those discussions every now and then. so sue me >_> And for the record. I'd rather have makoto kill me from a reset > stun than dudley's stupid Corkscrew blow mixups. That just makes you feel dumb >_> | ||
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ArC_man
United States2798 Posts
The latest Mikado matches are uploaded by TheShend (these are only the ones with Boss and Mester, check out TheShend's youtube thing for the other matches): Comments: lollll Boss is so good. I think he's the only Makoto who uses st. strong well (like meaty st. strong, st. fierce xx whatever). His Makoto makes SA3 look broken, lol. | ||
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dropthesky
Canada285 Posts
Sorry, I still think SA1 chun is better then any Ken. SA3 ken are SA1 chun are probably equal, considering that you can super kens pokes if whiffed, something you can't really do with SA2 chun. | ||
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myrmidon2537
Philippines2188 Posts
On November 07 2007 02:47 dropthesky wrote: at least you can try to poke your way out of dudleys mixups, with mokoto you're just screwed if she lands sa2, and shes good at it. Sorry, I still think SA1 chun is better then any Ken. SA3 ken are SA1 chun are probably equal, considering that you can super kens pokes if whiffed, something you can't really do with SA2 chun. I can respect that ^_^ About Boss, I think he's one of those players (Like KO and Kuroda, Kuroda using Yun was just funny to me) who can just use anyone and kill you with them. And isn't he the one which found out that 100% stun combo for makoto O_o | ||
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jkillashark
United States5262 Posts
BUUUUTTTTTT the fact of the matter is, Chun and Yun have probably the godliest supers in the game and the characters are built heavily around the fact of incorporating those supers into your gameplay. Makoto on the other hand has excellent EX moves (I personally abuse the EX overhead slap and EX Tsurugi) and can really only use her super if their opponent makes a tragic mistake when trying to corner Makoto. (Karakusa Fierce Abare Tosanami -> cancel combo depending on fall rates of different players). Ken is a little more versatile and in Myrmidon's argument would be a better all-around player if no supers were there. He has awesome EX moves as well as having nearly every freaking attack linkable or cancellable to his super. Ken's super isn't as godly as Yun's and Chun's hence Ken players don't build their gameplay around landing supers. I think this might be why I think Makoto and Ken are more fun to play with cause you don't play around trying to nab them with a super. DASH IN KARAKUSA FOR THE WIN. | ||
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thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
As for Ken, the only EX that is worth using is his EX air tatsu which can chain into a few things depending on your opponent (hirai is a god at this). EX hadou is just a really niche thing, EX shoryu is a surprise thing or a last ditch thing, EX ground tatsu is worthless. It is much much much better to use his SA than waste the bar on EX, because ken is so versatile. From a no QS situation you can crossover, overhead->SA, buffer-parry->throw, koashix2->SA, etcetc. The fact that his normals are so high caliber and flexible makes his SA even more useful and potent than it would be standalone. | ||
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thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
"Sorry, I still think SA1 chun is better then any Ken. SA3 ken are SA1 chun are probably equal, considering that you can super kens pokes if whiffed, something you can't really do with SA2 chun." My first impulse was that without the threat factor of SA2, Chun's kara-throw, SGGK, or palm variations wouldn't have nearly the same effect as they have right now, but I'm having trouble convincing myself that this is really the case at the moment. I mean Chun's gameplay or vsChun gameplay essentially comes in two phases depending on whether or not she has a SA bar full or not. The fact that there are written pieces by advanced players in Japan about this leads me to believe that an SA1 Chun just won't have the ability to pressure the opponent in the same way that she does right now, no matter how good her normals or throws or whatever are. I've actually seen someone play Chun with SA1 as a half-joke I think... It might have been like, Sanaka playing against Pierre last year b/c he didn't want to do Urien mirror, he chose SA1 for antiair or something, it was working decently but there was just no pressure to speak of. Koushun speaks of a telling sign of the upper echelon of chun-li players, which is that they can "keep walking forward", meaning that they apply pressure to the opponent by simply walking, the threat of the options that may come at them is enough to keep them at bay, and maintain distance eventually leading them into the corner. A lower level chunli can't do this and will be instead pushed back, which Koushun said he has fallen into after being in a slump for the better part of a year now (although his down parry is still magic). So without SA2 I suspect this pressure that is vital to chunli's gameplay vanishes, and will fall dramatically in effectivenes (not to mention 1 bar vs 2) | ||
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CharlieMurphy
United States22895 Posts
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myrmidon2537
Philippines2188 Posts
And for some reason, I don't know what the hell SGGK is. If that's a term they came up with just recently I'm lost. I've never heard of it O_o On November 07 2007 07:45 CharlieMurphy wrote: Akuma doesn't have any ex moves and his only usable super is weak, so if you took away supers and EX moves he would be the best character. Your argument is retarded myrmadon My argument is retarded? Akuma takes damage like a ***** and EX moves, those that give good priority and come out quick like EX shoryuu are better anti-airs than wake up shoryuus. Granted he can still mix stuff up but akuma loses alot He's not as versatile as ken although he can apply pressure really well, he takes damage like a 9 year old girl, he LOSES quick damage options from SA1 (which isn't weak at all, more like Average) AND kara-demon. It is YOUR argument that's retarded. | ||
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