EPTDiablo IV - Page 114
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Redox
Germany24794 Posts
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Harris1st
Germany6805 Posts
On October 06 2023 16:09 Redox wrote: Reducing cc times is a QOL change? Isnt that adjusting difficulty level? It's adjusting the frustration level, thats for certain. Perma stun into death is not a fun mechanic Thanks DarkPlasmaBall | ||
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Godwrath
Spain10115 Posts
On October 05 2023 07:58 andrewlt wrote: Yeah, the gems QoL changes are awesome. I'm hoping the experience boost is enough, will have to see if leveling speed feels right after that. I think they still need to do something about aspects. Intuitively arranged doesn't change the fact that they are taking up so much space in my stash. And how hard it is to get the specific ones I want (without having to resort to the codex min roll one). I don't know about gems, yeah those QoL are good, boosting xp seems good but i don't care to be honest. My problem with the game was that i could only do real combat for a few minutes (if any because density was trash in most places), then back to the tedious backpack, sort things out, crap, that took more time than fighting. I actually like the combat loop IF I AM IN A LOOP, the problem is that the Loop should hold half an hour to an hour before i have to go trash my inventory, otherwise i am not hooked on the gameplay. If the gameplay loop was really good, i wouldn't care about the XP as it comes naturally from doing what you like, playing the game, and getting to 100 didn't seem like it took a crazy amount of time, but rather that it took a crazy amount of DOWNTIME. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States44043 Posts
On October 06 2023 18:59 Godwrath wrote: I don't know about gems, yeah those QoL are good, boosting xp seems good but i don't care to be honest. My problem with the game was that i could only do real combat for a few minutes (if any because density was trash in most places), then back to the tedious backpack, sort things out, crap, that took more time than fighting. I actually like the combat loop IF I AM IN A LOOP, the problem is that the Loop should hold half an hour to an hour before i have to go trash my inventory, otherwise i am not hooked on the gameplay. If the gameplay loop was really good, i wouldn't care about the XP as it comes naturally from doing what you like, playing the game, and getting to 100 didn't seem like it took a crazy amount of time, but rather that it took a crazy amount of DOWNTIME. I had the same issue back when I picked up everything that fell on the ground, but then I realized that I was the one voluntarily creating that extra in-town downtime, not the game. The game merely offers it as an option. I just stopped filling my inventory with irrelevant drops, became more selective with the kinds of items I picked up, and I found that I could go quite a few dungeons (30+ minutes) without needing to sell/stash all the time. Pop an elixir for experience, grind experience for the full 30 minutes, then sell/stash whatever I picked up in that half hour. I think it depends on the player's priority: focusing on items/gear or focusing on combat/experience. The player can compromise and do both at the same time, but that won't be as efficient as prioritizing one over the other (if they care). Sometimes I'll get into a mindset of wanting as efficient of a combat loop as possible, and so I'll just... do exactly that. On the other hand, if I wanted to focus on top tier gear, I would fight whoever drops those specific items (which might not reap as much experience per minute, but that's the trade-off). | ||
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Godwrath
Spain10115 Posts
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States44043 Posts
On October 06 2023 20:08 Godwrath wrote: I already did that. The game does not provide loot filters to smooth the experience in that regard to be honest, and that would be a QoL number 1 priority imo. Admittedly, I've never considered a loot filter. Additional loot filters would be nice and definitely streamline the process even more, but the items are already color-coded and named, right? I just pick up the items I want and ignore the others, if I'm prioritizing speedy combat and experience over picking up every item to sell/salvage/stash. It's not like you're going to accidentally miss a unique or legendary item drop just because you're ignoring regular, magic, and rare gear, right? It would be nice to have zero of the inferior items drop (if that's what the loot filter would do), but I guess I'm just so accustomed to the Diablo franchise (especially D1 and D2) that I have no problem manually selecting whatever drops I want instead of the game automatically doing it for me. Probably just a difference in our playstyles. | ||
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Harris1st
Germany6805 Posts
On October 06 2023 20:00 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: I had the same issue back when I picked up everything that fell on the ground, but then I realized that I was the one voluntarily creating that extra in-town downtime, not the game. The game merely offers it as an option. I just stopped filling my inventory with irrelevant drops, became more selective with the kinds of items I picked up, and I found that I could go quite a few dungeons (30+ minutes) without needing to sell/stash all the time. Pop an elixir for experience, grind experience for the full 30 minutes, then sell/stash whatever I picked up in that half hour. I think it depends on the player's priority: focusing on items/gear or focusing on combat/experience. The player can compromise and do both at the same time, but that won't be as efficient as prioritizing one over the other (if they care). Sometimes I'll get into a mindset of wanting as efficient of a combat loop as possible, and so I'll just... do exactly that. On the other hand, if I wanted to focus on top tier gear, I would fight whoever drops those specific items (which might not reap as much experience per minute, but that's the trade-off). I think the problems stems from the fact that a random yellow can be better than everything you have equipped which means you have to manually check every yellow and therefore filling your inventory rather quickly. 2 ways to solve this: Salvage/ sell on the fly or make sure that uniques always and in every instance are better. but then you still need gold and mats which'll bring us to the first option again | ||
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Simberto
Germany11405 Posts
On October 06 2023 20:29 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: Admittedly, I've never considered a loot filter. Additional loot filters would be nice and definitely streamline the process even more, but the items are already color-coded and named, right? I just pick up the items I want and ignore the others, if I'm prioritizing speedy combat and experience over picking up every item to sell/salvage/stash. It's not like you're going to accidentally miss a unique or legendary item drop just because you're ignoring regular, magic, and rare gear, right? It would be nice to have zero of the inferior items drop (if that's what the loot filter would do), but I guess I'm just so accustomed to the Diablo franchise (especially D1 and D2) that I have no problem manually selecting whatever drops I want instead of the game automatically doing it for me. Probably just a difference in our playstyles. Have you ever played an ARPG with a good loot filter (like for example Grim Dawn)? It is amazing. You can just filter for exactly what you want, and you don't even see all the pointless trash. You filter not just by rarity, but also by attributes you care about and so forth. It makes the game flow that much better, because you waste less time looking at stuff. | ||
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Magic Powers
Austria3710 Posts
Difficulty is relatively unchanging for long periods. The level scaling is done in an extremely bad way, as players experience no spikes and no dips in relative power throughout most of the grind - i.e. no power trips and no setbacks/roadblocks. That is fundamentally monotone and counterintuitively turns the game into a chore despite not being hard. You can basically fall asleep on your keyboard and the real challenge is to try to keep your eyes open. Items. Legendaries are largely useless and get sold in bulks. They waste time. Blizzard should completely rework the way item collection works. Just as with the PvE difficulty, there are no spikes and no dips in item collection. You get slightly better and slightly worse items all the time, and that's why they don't meaningfully impact the grind - collecting them creates a chore. You become incentivized to remove them from your inventory, which isn't fun. You're also never excited about finding items for different characters because item drops are adjusted to your current class. This further decreases replayability because every new character you make has to go through the same monotone grind again. Skill trees. There's far too little variety for a modern ARPG. Remember D1? You could find and use several dozen spells with one character. Already in D2 there were fewer skill options. And now in D4 again fewer. This makes no sense. I've not come up with these complaints on my own, although I'd mostly agree. These are the complaints from other players who have stopped playing D4. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States44043 Posts
On October 06 2023 20:30 Harris1st wrote: I think the problems stems from the fact that a random yellow can be better than everything you have equipped which means you have to manually check every yellow and therefore filling your inventory rather quickly. 2 ways to solve this: Salvage/ sell on the fly or make sure that uniques always and in every instance are better. but then you still need gold and mats which'll bring us to the first option again I agree that making one item type/color universally stronger (or weaker) than another is one way to fix that problem, but I've personally never minded when there was the sort of versatility in item strength or efficiency that games like D2 and D4 had (where sometimes you care about inspecting the blue/magic items or yellow/rare items, if you're not prioritizing experience/combat loops). If each item color was universally better or worse than another item color, however, then additional loot filters would still just be redundant. Not seeing a blue/magic item at all vs. seeing-it-and-ignoring-it doesn't really make a practical difference for me (unless there are dozens of items on the ground and the clutter is annoying), so while someone else preferring a loot filter can totally make sense to them, it's not particularly high on my personal, subjective quality-of-life tier list. On October 06 2023 20:33 Simberto wrote: Have you ever played an ARPG with a good loot filter (like for example Grim Dawn)? It is amazing. You can just filter for exactly what you want, and you don't even see all the pointless trash. You filter not just by rarity, but also by attributes you care about and so forth. It makes the game flow that much better, because you waste less time looking at stuff. Yeah I installed Grim Dawn a few weeks ago and played 20 hours of it, and found the game to be way more monotonous and boring than Diablo 4 (I just stuck with my first spell the entire time, and never had any reason or motivation to add a second one because the first spell killed everything easily). I know what you mean by a good loot filter though - Grim Dawn allows the player to turn off certain types of item drops - but having fewer drops didn't really make the game "better" for me, personally. | ||
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andrewlt
United States7702 Posts
On October 06 2023 20:08 Godwrath wrote: I already did that. The game does not provide loot filters to smooth the experience in that regard to be honest, and that would be a QoL number 1 priority imo. I don't think loot filters will solve this. The problem is that almost all slots have rares as the endgame BiS items. Rares just inherently require a lot more work to sort through compared to uniques and set items. And Diablo 4's affix system means that there are so many different combination of items that could be an upgrade. For example, crit damage and vulnerable are the best ones right now but a close/distant/elemental damage high roll could be better than a crit/vulnerable low roll. Then there is CDR, MCR, increased resource regen, crit chance, lucky hit and so on. There are just too many things to look out for and it's really time consuming to check for upgrades. And once you do find a potential upgrade, you have to make mental calculations to see if that unupgraded item is a potential upgrade over your current 5/5 item. And then you have to imprint an aspect at the occultist, maybe visit the stash if that aspect is not in your inventory, upgrade at the blacksmith/jewelry vendor, unlock gem slots at the jeweler. And the towns are fairly spread out with the vendors all over the place. I have an estimated ratio of 2:1 for combat:clearing inventory time. That's too much time spent vendoring stuff. And that's after I stopped picking up sacred items and I would just vendor everything instead of some combination of vendor and salvage. I stopped picking up magic items ages ago. The game has some of the same problems Diablo 3 had. The combat is fun. They just need to give us a reason to play. D4 has the additional problem that Blizz needs to cut down on the tedious, administrative stuff that bogs players down. | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
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Manit0u
Poland17236 Posts
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FaCE_1
Canada6163 Posts
D4 doesn't have any aspect of the game (see what i did... aspect) that is better then both of those game. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States44043 Posts
On October 09 2023 02:09 FaCE_1 wrote: Last Epoch and Path of Exile are so much ahead and better then D4 (imo). D4 doesn't have any aspect of the game (see what i did... aspect) that is better then both of those game. I've played quite a bit of PoE, but what would you say are the best qualities of Last Epoch? I don't know much about it. Edit: I'm also confused... has Last Epoch actually been released? Is it still in beta? Does it cost money to play right now? I see it on Steam, and it costs $35, but it also says it's currently in Early Access mode, and that also "If you are not excited to play this game in its current state, then you should wait to see if the game progresses further in development", which makes me think we can try a free, limited version now while it's still being finished, and then later on decide if we truly want to buy the finished product once Last Epoch is complete? (And on Steam it says the game released in 2019, but everywhere else it says the game doesn't have an official release date yet.) https://store.steampowered.com/app/899770/Last_Epoch/ | ||
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Manit0u
Poland17236 Posts
On October 09 2023 03:09 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: I've played quite a bit of PoE, but what would you say are the best qualities of Last Epoch? Edit: I'm also confused... has Last Epoch actually been released? Is it still in beta? Does it cost money to play right now? I see it on Steam, and it costs $35, but it also says it's currently in Early Access mode, and that also "If you are not excited to play this game in its current state, then you should wait to see if the game progresses further in development", which makes me think we can try a free, limited version now while it's still being finished, and then later on decide if we truly want to buy the finished product once Last Epoch is complete? (And on Steam it says the game released in 2019, but everywhere else it says the game doesn't have an official release date yet.) https://store.steampowered.com/app/899770/Last_Epoch/ Plenty of games are released as Early Access nowadays. LE is currently at version 0.9.2 and the full release of 1.0 is planned for December this year. You can buy it right now to support the studio and play it ahead of time. It's pretty much feature complete, they're mostly doing some fine-tuning and adding more specializations for some classes. They're not as big as D4 and PoE so some parts of the game are still a bit rough around the edges when it comes to graphics/voice acting but the gameplay is really good and the in-game systems are better than what D4 and PoE have. Interesting crafting, each ability having its own skill tree for bonkers customization potential (that's separate from your class skill tree), items are also great (and best loot filter out there). I mean, the economy in this game was designed by the guy who did the Trade Skill Master (TSM) add-on for WoW. It's fun and engaging and so far I haven't really seen any bad stuff about the game. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States44043 Posts
On October 09 2023 06:40 Manit0u wrote: Plenty of games are released as Early Access nowadays. LE is currently at version 0.9.2 and the full release of 1.0 is planned for December this year. You can buy it right now to support the studio and play it ahead of time. It's pretty much feature complete, they're mostly doing some fine-tuning and adding more specializations for some classes. They're not as big as D4 and PoE so some parts of the game are still a bit rough around the edges when it comes to graphics/voice acting but the gameplay is really good and the in-game systems are better than what D4 and PoE have. Interesting crafting, each ability having its own skill tree for bonkers customization potential (that's separate from your class skill tree), items are also great (and best loot filter out there). I mean, the economy in this game was designed by the guy who did the Trade Skill Master (TSM) add-on for WoW. It's fun and engaging and so far I haven't really seen any bad stuff about the game. Thanks for the elaboration! I'll add it to the backlog  | ||
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Manit0u
Poland17236 Posts
On October 09 2023 07:01 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: Thanks for the elaboration! I'll add it to the backlog I do recommend checking it out. I mean, they already have softcore and hardcore solo ladders implemented despite being in early access and that's something D4 has to wait for another 3 months at least. I know a lot of people like climbing the ladder and refining builds to the point of absurdity. What's the most interesting for me is the number of different builds that are present. Within the same specialization people have different skills they're using (and then you can also modify those skills differently) and even itemization is different. I'm no expert but right now there seem to be no "be all end all" 100% must have items that enable the build. I've checked some stats on the builds and item distribution and it seems this way. Checking paladin stats there seems to be a key skill (96% builds taking it) but no key item (top usage was the same item featuring in 17% of the builds). One guy described it nicely: I started playing the game with a Necromancer. After some time I wanted to try something different so I made a Necromancer. His third char was also a Necromancer. All completely different builds and playstyles. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States44043 Posts
On October 09 2023 11:32 Manit0u wrote: I do recommend checking it out. I mean, they already have softcore and hardcore solo ladders implemented despite being in early access and that's something D4 has to wait for another 3 months at least. I know a lot of people like climbing the ladder and refining builds to the point of absurdity. What's the most interesting for me is the number of different builds that are present. Within the same specialization people have different skills they're using (and then you can also modify those skills differently) and even itemization is different. I'm no expert but right now there seem to be no "be all end all" 100% must have items that enable the build. I've checked some stats on the builds and item distribution and it seems this way. Checking paladin stats there seems to be a key skill (96% builds taking it) but no key item (top usage was the same item featuring in 17% of the builds). One guy described it nicely: I started playing the game with a Necromancer. After some time I wanted to try something different so I made a Necromancer. His third char was also a Necromancer. All completely different builds and playstyles. That's good to know Can you respec / undo your skill tree points/nodes that you select in Last Epoch, if you make a mistake or want to try a slightly alternate path, without making another character, like how D4 allows for refunds/changes? Edit: Apparently, respecs are possible and pretty convenient within a class, although you cannot change your class mastery from one leveled up branch to another. | ||
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Manit0u
Poland17236 Posts
On October 09 2023 20:27 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: That's good to know Can you respec / undo your skill tree points/nodes that you select in Last Epoch, if you make a mistake or want to try a slightly alternate path, without making another character, like how D4 allows for refunds/changes? Edit: Apparently, respecs are possible and pretty convenient within a class, although you cannot change your class mastery from one leveled up branch to another. An introductory video just landed that explains things better than I ever could: According to this respecs are rather hard early on but get easier as you progress. Bad for early experimentation but great for fine-tuning or changing builds completely later on. | ||
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