EPTOverwatch League - Page 2
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giftdgecko
United States2126 Posts
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Djzapz
Canada10681 Posts
On November 11 2016 09:01 giftdgecko wrote: I'm hoping this eventually turns more into forcing teams to just be located in certain areas, like the gaming house has to be in San Diego or LA etc... Players move to the area or to a team house to live and play during their time. That's what ties the teams to that location, not the fact that they grew up in that area or whatever. Just bid on where you want your team to be based out of. It gives teams the ability to develop a local fan base like real sports teams do (which many players and owners of professional sports teams are investing into esports, see: liquid). Seeing the Boston Team Liquid go against the LA Cloud 9 would be fine with me. It would allow trading of players and building of rosters that aren't going to be super broken since the talent pool for certain areas would be super limiting if you had to be already living in an area. In CSGO the concept of team houses has quickly been proven not to work. Until those players start making hundreds of thousands, it's actually very difficult for many of these young guys to live away from their friends and families and girlfriends. Many of them get homesick and don't integrate well, it has been the case for players such as s1mple who quit a great and lucrative opportunity with TL to go back home. Perhaps more importantly, team houses haven't work in the West except in a few rare occasions, and it's suggested that perhaps it's because in team games (read: different from Starcraft), the ego of players and the disagreements create tensions. In a team house context, those tensions never go away, because you're always physically right next to the people you disagree with. You can't take a moment, pull away and chill out. As for local fanbases, Richard Lewis made a very good video about how we may want to be skeptical about that concept. Let's take me for instance, I'm from Montreal. What if Toronto and Vancouver got teams but Montreal didn't. Who do I root for? Toronto because it's geographically closer? Vancouver for some other convoluted reason? Perhaps New York City because it's close too. Thing is it depends... if the talent is split across a bunch of cities when NA can barely fill one top team right now, there's a good chance Toronto is going to be dogshit. If NA wants to stay relevant it already kinda needs europeans and if we break up the current teams that are decent (but have problems), we'll have problems. The NA talent is at risk of being spread thin. Most people IMO are more likely to root for individual players or "foreign" (in terms of city) teams that develop cool shit. I don't think the sports model where teams have an emotional attachment to their local team necessarily can be applied to e-sports. In traditional sports it's a tradition of sorts. I like IDDQD, Talespin, Internethulk and Vallutaja. Is Toronto even likely to get a credible team? Maybe we'll get Talespin or any given decent NA player who'd be willing to be in Canada for whatever reason. But we're not likely to have too many star players because you'll need one of those in NYC, one in Seattle, one in Boston, one in LA... I'll need more info because I don't know how teams will be constituted really, but it seems dangerous. | ||
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giftdgecko
United States2126 Posts
There probably would be a team or two in most regions that dominate for the beginning, but the idea is to create a system that supports new talent and gives them an opportunity to commit to the game for a period. So, we should end up with a larger talent pool leading to better games overall relatively quickly. Team house are not set up well in most situations I know of. People need space along with the structure for playing together and practicing. People need a "home" to go to and having more local oriented teams will help with this in some cases. By team houses, I meant more along the lines of separate housing with a place to play together. Think efficiency apartments with a common area. It's not so far off Riots system from what I know (not enough) and I think it's a good way to get money into the game and players without it being super top heavy like DOTA but like you said, we don't know any real details about it yet. If you start getting investors with large capitol who care about it, I think it will find success and is worth trying. | ||
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Jett.Jack.Alvir
Canada2250 Posts
No one person or group created basketball, tennis, baseball, or many popular sports. But videogames are created by a company. And it should be in their best interest to make sure the league surrounding that videogame is managed exactly as they want it. Of course Blizzard could sign it to a third party that might manage the league better, but will they also maintain Blizzard's business ethics? Will they make ultimate decisions that align with Blizzard's mission statement or vision? As well, once an established league has a huge market on a specific sport, they will change the rules to balance the game, akin to developers balancing their videogame. So although the NBA didn't invent basketball, their change to the rules is the same interest as developers changes to a videogame. Djzapz, your concern for potential talent will be unfounded, at least in my opinion. Overwatch already has 20 million players, and you think talent will spread too thin? In a potential talent pool of 20 million, I think it should be feasible to find several thousand players with enough skill, right mindset, and potential training. I don't think talent will stay within their residence. A great player from Toronto won't necessarily play for Toronto. Just like in other leagues, a player is signed to whatever city wants them regardless of their country of origin. And who to root for? Well there is only one MLB team in Canada, and it was being advertised as 'Canada's Team' during their ALCS games against Cleveland. But that doesn't mean you are forced to cheer for the Blue Jays. Who to root for is all up to you. A lot of people have some valid concerns, but I think Blizzard's model will succeed. However, I do see a need for a Overwatch player union, similar to other leagues. In it's current form, Blizzard and the initial team owners, will have too much control over the players. Without a union to look out for their interest, I can see many players being treated poorly. In this particular situation, without a player union, it will be up to Blizzard to handle grievances between players and team management. Honestly, I don't mind if Blizzard runs and manages a league, but for them to also make judgement on conflicts brings into question Blizzard's capability to maintain unbiased calls. A player union will be the balance needed to make this league work. | ||
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Jett.Jack.Alvir
Canada2250 Posts
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Jett.Jack.Alvir
Canada2250 Posts
But teamhouses there managed to work. Managing a teamhouse is like managing an office, and the team's management staff must do their diligence to ensure everything is running smoothly. In the past, many team houses in Europe and NA were mismanaged so much, that they failed due to it. It's possible that might happen in the OW league. However, I don't think having a team house is required to form a team. If the Internet will make going into the office unnecessary, than a team house is probably unnecessary. | ||
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giftdgecko
United States2126 Posts
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Jett.Jack.Alvir
Canada2250 Posts
I think they have to live in the city. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17497 Posts
On November 12 2016 03:11 Jett.Jack.Alvir wrote: A player union will be the balance needed to make this league work. a players union is a good idea. unfortunately, the USA has a FUBAR-ed left wing and no labour party so it'll be tough for it to be a grass roots development. | ||
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Djzapz
Canada10681 Posts
On November 12 2016 03:11 Jett.Jack.Alvir wrote: Djzapz, your concern for potential talent will be unfounded, at least in my opinion. Overwatch already has 20 million players, and you think talent will spread too thin? In a potential talent pool of 20 million, I think it should be feasible to find several thousand players with enough skill, right mindset, and potential training. The number of players doesn't matter, how many players do you think played CSGO very competitively? And how many Get_Right's, F0rests, Guardians, Neos and Heatons have we seen? The number of teams that are contenders to win major tournaments in CS is around 5-8 at any given time. Out of millions of players, out hundreds of thousands of people who play the game religiously and try extremely hard to be competitive and to be the best they can be, a handful of players are even capable of winning tournaments, the absolute exceptional players. And when you see the clash of titans, when you see Fallen's brazilian team at the peak of their career fight against Na'Vi, when you see historic matches like Pronax's Fnatic vs. EnvyUs at a major, it's truly memorable because what you're seeing is 10 of the best players in the world in one server. Perhaps 10 of the 20 best players in the worlds happen to be stacked on those two teams and in many cases it gives games that are played at an obscenely high level. That is what I've always appreciated out of CS, and it's there in SC too because it's 1v1. You end up seeing the best player, or the best teams constituted of the best players because if they didn't have the best players they'd fall in front of the competition. This league may not be able to achieve the top level. The top level will not be as high as if the team could compete on a free market where talent was valued and tradable. If you have a bunch of teams with a bunch of great players but caps and things that prevent them from drafting whoever they want and who they believe to be the best players, then we'll just have a bunch of good teams and the "great" teams will not be anything like what we see in CS. | ||
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Jett.Jack.Alvir
Canada2250 Posts
You don't know if there will be great teams or good teams, or if they will all be NY Yankees. And I think there is some sort of draft tournament, where the grassroots teams can compete for attention from the premier teams. If my understanding is correct, Blizzard will host an an amateur tournament where small teams formed by friends can try to get recognition and be signed. Of course the entire team might not get signed, most likely just one or two, but its still another avenue. So to my knowledge, which might be incorrect, Blizzard will have a draft akin to NFL. And they will have farm/feeder leagues. Along with that an amateur tournament where players might get drafted from it. That is 3 avenues for players to go pro. Not to mention they encourage smaller tournaments that probably won't cost organizers much as long as its under X value prizes. I honestly think this league will culture the very best to perform and the highest level. Everything is stacked so the players can succeed, along with the teams. I think someone mentioned there being only 6 players on a team. I honestly think teams will go up to 12+. Why? Because they need practice with each other. Sure only 6 will play at tournaments, but inbetween they will need to play against someone, and the ladder isn't ideal for a pro team to practice. BW teams did something similar, where many of them were just punching bags for the superstars and better players. As well, we don't know how long the matches are going to last. If Blizzard wants to make this big, the broadcast should be long, at least 3 hours (average length of most professional sports games). Switches between a totally different lineup will throw off their opponents, instead of the same 6 play against the same 6. Imagine if you're team is tied in matches, but the opposing team switches 3 players. That will throw you off, and possibly win them the game. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17497 Posts
On November 12 2016 13:58 Jett.Jack.Alvir wrote: So to my knowledge, which might be incorrect, Blizzard will have a draft akin to NFL. And they will have farm/feeder leagues. Along with that an amateur tournament where players might get drafted from it. That is 3 avenues for players to go pro. Not to mention they encourage smaller tournaments that probably won't cost organizers much as long as its under X value prizes. if this is the case i'd prefer a draft and eligibility rules more similar to MLB than the NFL. Each NFL team has no minor league affiliates. | ||
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