EPTNo Man's Sky (PS4 and PC) - Page 7
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digmouse
China6331 Posts
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Fleetfeet
Canada2710 Posts
On August 14 2016 02:04 WolfintheSheep wrote: Hilarious thing is this game looks exactly like I expected it to be. Tons of procedural generated content with very little meaningful variance, and a game that plays much more like a tech demo than a fully fleshed out game. It's like people have absolutely no idea what reasonable game development actually looks like. The only major thing would be if there continues to be major development on this post-release. Most games like this start out as a basic framework and grow from there. I think it'd be wise for everyone here to take a giant step back and let the game be what it is. Especially in this community, we're more driven towards more tryhard gameplay-driven competitive challenging stuff. Almost unanimously my speedrunning / competitive gaming circles are saying either "Trash" or "Meh"... but several of my super casual console pleb friends are playing this, have been playing this since it came out on ps4, and genuinely enjoy it. No game is made for every person, and yes while an "actually good" minecraft would be fantastic, that wasn't listed as this game's intentions. Implying that it isn't "Reasonable game design" is actually just stupid. The game just isn't made for you; it's perfectly fine and functional (on console) as a casual space explorer. Honestly this game sets a lot of benchmarks for games logistically, in terms of procedural generation and scale. I'm looking forward to what this game will pave the way for, but that doesn't mean I'm gonna waste my time pretending that it's terrible at what it's doing. | ||
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plated.rawr
Norway1676 Posts
Ah, a man can dream. | ||
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Duka08
3391 Posts
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22311 Posts
On August 14 2016 07:08 Duka08 wrote: Thinking about mods is pretty interesting. I do hope the community can come up with some cool stuff. The first thing that came to mind for me was multiple biomes on planets which seems like it wouldn't be terrible to implement, but I'm curious about what information is kept server-side and which will be flexible for clients. There seems to be a lot of discussion about mods so I mean, I would guess that there will be cool stuff to do even though it's always communicating with the home server. Biomes would mean a different generating algorith. Donno if the game is set up to allow it. Being a small studio I'm inclined to say no. Heck have they even said anything about mods being possible? | ||
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WolfintheSheep
Canada14127 Posts
On August 14 2016 06:49 Fleetfeet wrote: I think it'd be wise for everyone here to take a giant step back and let the game be what it is. Especially in this community, we're more driven towards more tryhard gameplay-driven competitive challenging stuff. Almost unanimously my speedrunning / competitive gaming circles are saying either "Trash" or "Meh"... but several of my super casual console pleb friends are playing this, have been playing this since it came out on ps4, and genuinely enjoy it. No game is made for every person, and yes while an "actually good" minecraft would be fantastic, that wasn't listed as this game's intentions. Implying that it isn't "Reasonable game design" is actually just stupid. The game just isn't made for you; it's perfectly fine and functional (on console) as a casual space explorer. Honestly this game sets a lot of benchmarks for games logistically, in terms of procedural generation and scale. I'm looking forward to what this game will pave the way for, but that doesn't mean I'm gonna waste my time pretending that it's terrible at what it's doing. Reasonable game development. Not design. Very important distinction. The game is fine when you expect what it is, and if it continues to get additions and patches it may be worth the $60 price tag as well. But apparently people were expecting something that was literally impossible for the development team to come even close to delivering, given their resources and time frame. On August 14 2016 04:47 JimmyJRaynor wrote: i think the problem is that the procedurally generated content has no impact on game play. Contrast this with Borderlands which has procedurally generated elements like creatures, guns and grenades on an identical map. I know you like using terms in the completely wrong way...but Borderlands has no procedurally generated content, at all. All of Borderlands' variance is pure percentage RNG. | ||
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Duka08
3391 Posts
On August 14 2016 11:33 WolfintheSheep wrote: I know you like using terms in the completely wrong way...but Borderlands has no procedurally generated content, at all. All of Borderlands' variance is pure percentage RNG. I've seen people call Borderlands procedurally generated about a dozen times in the past week, in discussions about NMS. Not sure where that started but... Yeah... It's certainly not the case | ||
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B.I.G.
3251 Posts
As in they would create the entire terrain with the NMS formulas and then 'manually' place roads, bridges, towns, and NPCs? | ||
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WolfintheSheep
Canada14127 Posts
On August 14 2016 15:42 B.I.G. wrote: Do you guys think this technique could be used to make a game map the size of a country or even earth, and then place scripted events in it? As in they would create the entire terrain with the NMS formulas and then 'manually' place roads, bridges, towns, and NPCs? Pretty sure that's not feasible. Could do it like Elite: Dangerous where you have preset maps in set locations (or even random placements) for consistent objectives or something, but the whole point of NMS is to create a scope that's not feasible to manipulate manually in a meaningful way. Not to say they couldn't create civilization in a procedural way. | ||
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Endymion
United States3701 Posts
On August 14 2016 06:49 Fleetfeet wrote: I think it'd be wise for everyone here to take a giant step back and let the game be what it is. Especially in this community, we're more driven towards more tryhard gameplay-driven competitive challenging stuff. Almost unanimously my speedrunning / competitive gaming circles are saying either "Trash" or "Meh"... but several of my super casual console pleb friends are playing this, have been playing this since it came out on ps4, and genuinely enjoy it. No game is made for every person, and yes while an "actually good" minecraft would be fantastic, that wasn't listed as this game's intentions. Implying that it isn't "Reasonable game design" is actually just stupid. The game just isn't made for you; it's perfectly fine and functional (on console) as a casual space explorer. Honestly this game sets a lot of benchmarks for games logistically, in terms of procedural generation and scale. I'm looking forward to what this game will pave the way for, but that doesn't mean I'm gonna waste my time pretending that it's terrible at what it's doing. i disagree wholeheartedly.. i think that it would be wise for you to step back and look at the game for what it is, and judge it by games that are actually good.. personally, i would be saying that NMS is a horrible game even if it released perfectly with 300 fps on pc and ps4, because it would still be a barren wasteland of mechanics. i still stand by my argument that there's nothing at all to do in the game, and that other games both with procedural exploration (minecraft, terraria) and without procedural generation (subnautica) shit on this game to an unprecedented degree. and that's if the release was smooth and everything on the box was delivered.. as it stands the devs lied about multiplayer, and they lied about the quality of the mechanics that barely got included... read the back of the NMS box and tell me that the devs aren't lying through their teeth: Share your journey The galaxy is a living, breathing place. Trade convoys travel between stars, factions vie for territory, pirates hunt the unwary, and the police are ever watching. Every other player lives in the same galaxy, and you can choose to share your discoveries with them on a map that spans known space. Perhaps you will see the results of their actions as well as your own... trade convoys? you mean those automated ships that do NOTHING if you kill them? prices don't increase or decrease.... factions? LMFAO!!!!!! pirates??? you mean random automated spacecraft that do NOTHING if you kill them? police?!?!?!!? not that i have seen other than automated responses................ every player lives in the same galaxy? uhhh nope! let's move onto the next blurb! Find your own destiny Your voyage through No Man's Sky is up to you. Will you be a fighter, preying on the weak and taking their riches, or taking out pirates for their bounties? Power is yours if you upgrade your ship for speed and weaponry. Or a trader? Find rich resources on forgotten worlds and exploit them for the highest prices. Invest in more cargo space and you'll reap huge rewards. Or perhaps an explorer? Go beyond the known frontier and discover places and things that no one has ever seen before. Upgrade your engines to jump ever farther, and strengthen your suit for survival in toxic environments that would kill the unwary. will i be a fighter??? maybe if i wanted to play a tacked on shooting mechanic that is outdone by doom 1/quake 1 from over 20 years ago!! same with the space combat, it's utter shit compared to shit from 20 years ago... tie fighter? freespace? "upgrade your ship for speed and weaponry" where are the meaningful decisions between the two when all combat is the exact fucking same regardless of your kit, because all pirates are also the exact same... look at games like mechwarrior where your loadout drastically changed combat, from being slow and lumbering with lots of missiles to being a lightly armed with jump-jets, trying to out maneuver your opponent... this game has literally none of that, despite it having even more potential being a space game. a trader? HAHAHA.. what a great UI for trading, so what, buying low and selling high between identical vendors in identical space stations in near identical systems makes for compelling trading now? give me a break, i might be spoiled by the memory of eve trading but this is just silly... they did the BARE MINIMUM yet people are trying to say you can "trade" lmfao.. also, all planets have basically the same resources because of how short sighted the game mechanics are... you can't get stuck on a planet without fuel to escape orbit, or get stuck without fuel to fly on the planet itself, leading to actually memorable experiences..nope, that would be too hard on our players!! just come on... this game deserves a class action lawsuit for the ways the devs have lied through their teeth, without even delving into the HUGE performance issues and lack of good faith evident in some of the problems... | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17486 Posts
On August 14 2016 11:33 WolfintheSheep wrote: I know you like using terms in the completely wrong way...but Borderlands has no procedurally generated content, at all. All of Borderlands' variance is pure percentage RNG. Raid on Digistruct Peak is probably the most extreme example of Borderlands procedural generation methods impacting the most aspects of game play. The weapons are procedurally generated according to Gearbox. Having played Raid on Digistruct Peak I think they are telling the truth. if you want to call them liars.. have fun. http://pcg.wikidot.com/pcg-games:borderlands "but perhaps the strangest was a revolver that fired shotgun shells. Gearbox is constantly surprised with what the system comes up with. They've seen rifles shoot everything from homing darts to rockets. 'One of the guns tracks onto something and locks, and after three seconds, [the target] suddenly explodes,' director Matthew Armstrong says." http://borderlands.wikia.com/wiki/Gearbot http://blogs.wsj.com/speakeasy/2012/04/19/why-borderlands-2-has-the-most-stylish-guns-in-gaming/ "And so coming up with a system where we’re not only designing ten, twenty, fifty guns, but they’re procedurally built. So when he talks about designing a gun, this dude is not just coming up with the look of one gun, he’s coming up with bits and parts and pieces that can be mixed and matched with all sorts of other guns. And they all have to look good!" http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/4158/the_illusions_we_make_gearboxs_.php?print=1 "Most of the time, it's the exact same stuff. I'm doing the exact same conversation again because it's so expensive to create that content and there's so much of it. You know what? I don't understand the fun in that, frankly. I just think that's boring and slow. Maybe that's why I like shooters so much. We don't have any of that crap in Borderlands. But I think getting loot is freaking awesome so we invested a lot in our system to develop loot for us -- the procedural generation system -- because that's really compelling. But we're putting it in front of people, so when you ask how we pace it, it's a process." Procedural Generation does not necessarily mean a different experience every game. Activision's River Raid employs procedural generation to create the map and starting enemy locations.. and its identical every game. On August 14 2016 16:05 Endymion wrote: as it stands the devs lied about multiplayer, and they lied about the quality of the mechanics that barely got included... read the back of the NMS box and tell me that the devs aren't lying through their teeth: you are correct they lied. and its the #1 day one Steam game ever. 3 rules of business: Lie. Cheat. Steal. http://www.pcgamer.com/no-mans-sky-sales/ | ||
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WolfintheSheep
Canada14127 Posts
Procedural generation does not mean everything has to be different every time, but the the important distinction is not with the randomness, but the how non-random the content is. The difference between a game like Terraria having pathable, functional biomes and a completely random pixel map. I guess things like loot tables and spawn lists are being included in that. | ||
hexhaven
Finland963 Posts
On August 14 2016 16:05 Endymion wrote: as it stands the devs lied about multiplayer, and they lied about the quality of the mechanics that barely got included... read the back of the NMS box and tell me that the devs aren't lying through their teeth: Wait, so you're saying the devs (who might not have even written the blurb) lied about features because you think these features should be implemented in a different way? The Quake comparison is unfair, too, because very few games come even close to the 1996 game's mechanics. | ||
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Krieg1
14 Posts
On August 14 2016 16:05 Endymion wrote: i disagree wholeheartedly.. i think that it would be wise for you to step back and look at the game for what it is, and judge it by games that are actually good.. personally, i would be saying that NMS is a horrible game even if it released perfectly with 300 fps on pc and ps4, because it would still be a barren wasteland of mechanics. i still stand by my argument that there's nothing at all to do in the game, and that other games both with procedural exploration (minecraft, terraria) and without procedural generation (subnautica) shit on this game to an unprecedented degree. and that's if the release was smooth and everything on the box was delivered.. as it stands the devs lied about multiplayer, and they lied about the quality of the mechanics that barely got included... read the back of the NMS box and tell me that the devs aren't lying through their teeth: Share your journey The galaxy is a living, breathing place. Trade convoys travel between stars, factions vie for territory, pirates hunt the unwary, and the police are ever watching. Every other player lives in the same galaxy, and you can choose to share your discoveries with them on a map that spans known space. Perhaps you will see the results of their actions as well as your own... trade convoys? you mean those automated ships that do NOTHING if you kill them? prices don't increase or decrease.... factions? LMFAO!!!!!! pirates??? you mean random automated spacecraft that do NOTHING if you kill them? police?!?!?!!? not that i have seen other than automated responses................ every player lives in the same galaxy? uhhh nope! let's move onto the next blurb! Find your own destiny Your voyage through No Man's Sky is up to you. Will you be a fighter, preying on the weak and taking their riches, or taking out pirates for their bounties? Power is yours if you upgrade your ship for speed and weaponry. Or a trader? Find rich resources on forgotten worlds and exploit them for the highest prices. Invest in more cargo space and you'll reap huge rewards. Or perhaps an explorer? Go beyond the known frontier and discover places and things that no one has ever seen before. Upgrade your engines to jump ever farther, and strengthen your suit for survival in toxic environments that would kill the unwary. will i be a fighter??? maybe if i wanted to play a tacked on shooting mechanic that is outdone by doom 1/quake 1 from over 20 years ago!! same with the space combat, it's utter shit compared to shit from 20 years ago... tie fighter? freespace? "upgrade your ship for speed and weaponry" where are the meaningful decisions between the two when all combat is the exact fucking same regardless of your kit, because all pirates are also the exact same... look at games like mechwarrior where your loadout drastically changed combat, from being slow and lumbering with lots of missiles to being a lightly armed with jump-jets, trying to out maneuver your opponent... this game has literally none of that, despite it having even more potential being a space game. a trader? HAHAHA.. what a great UI for trading, so what, buying low and selling high between identical vendors in identical space stations in near identical systems makes for compelling trading now? give me a break, i might be spoiled by the memory of eve trading but this is just silly... they did the BARE MINIMUM yet people are trying to say you can "trade" lmfao.. also, all planets have basically the same resources because of how short sighted the game mechanics are... you can't get stuck on a planet without fuel to escape orbit, or get stuck without fuel to fly on the planet itself, leading to actually memorable experiences..nope, that would be too hard on our players!! just come on... this game deserves a class action lawsuit for the ways the devs have lied through their teeth, without even delving into the HUGE performance issues and lack of good faith evident in some of the problems... On point, the developer are criminals. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17486 Posts
On August 14 2016 17:34 WolfintheSheep wrote: Procedural generation does not mean everything has to be different every time, as i said in my previous post River Raid is the same every time and its procedurally generated. games with fractals are procedurally generated. Rescue on Fractulus is the same planet every game and its procedurally generated. On August 14 2016 11:33 WolfintheSheep wrote: I know you like using terms in the completely wrong way...but Borderlands has no procedurally generated content, at all. All of Borderlands' variance is pure percentage RNG. pretty hilarious how you yap like this and then you are dead wrong. Raid on Digistruct Peak has enemies, enemy weapons, enemy grenades and loot all procedurally generated. Have you played Raid on Digistruct Peak? Raid on Digistruct Peak is Borderlands2 DLC. "In computing, procedural generation is a method of creating data algorithmically as opposed to manually." The guns in all 3 Borderlands games are procedurally generated via an algorithm. The weapons many of the bosses carry are also procedurally generated as are the Skags. | ||
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WolfintheSheep
Canada14127 Posts
On August 14 2016 18:41 JimmyJRaynor wrote: as i said in my previous post River Raid is the same every time and its procedurally generated. games with fractals are procedurally generated. Rescue on Fractulus is the same planet every game and its procedurally generated. pretty hilarious how you yap like this and then you are dead wrong. Raid on Digistruct Peak has enemies, enemy weapons, enemy grenades and loot all procedurally generated. Have you played Raid on Digistruct Peak? Raid on Digistruct Peak is Borderlands2 DLC. "In computing, procedural generation is a method of creating data algorithmically as opposed to manually." The guns in all 3 Borderlands games are procedurally generated via an algorithm. The weapons many of the bosses carry are also procedurally generated as are the Skags. As I said, it looks like "procedurally generated" is used at the most textbook definition, which is anything generated by a programming procedure. Which is fair. It also means a poker game or blackjack game is a procedurally generated game as well, though, and talking about how one game makes use of procedural generation than another is pointless when the two aren't comparable. Borderlands has absolutely nothing exceptional about their randomization. It's loot tables with mods, and monsters/guns with randomized models, and spawn tables. The kinds of things that dungeon crawlers have been doing since inception (which is fitting, considering Borderlands is a first person dungeon crawler). From a designer and modeller stand point I'm sure it's very interesting, but programmatically it's just random selection from a few arrays with possibly level constraints. There's no point at all in trying to compare that kind of content with what NMS tries to do, or what games like Minecraft, Starbound or Terraria do. | ||
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ref4
2933 Posts
you can always refund it or if you unfortunately bought the PS4 version, just think of it as a $60 charity or something and never buy anything made by Hello Games again | ||
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QuanticHawk
United States32132 Posts
i would say $30 would be a much more fair price point given how under developed certain parts of the game are. for anyone on the fence: your goal is to get o the center of the universe, and the lore is learning the various alien languages to get there. To do so, you find info on planets across the universe. travel is dependent on crafting various items, which you get through crafting (ie mining supplies and building), trading, or attacking trader convoys/other ships. You can also find upgrades, ships, etc on planets. The game is designed to entice you to explore. | ||
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QuanticHawk
United States32132 Posts
there are definitely scripted events pertaining to the story. | ||
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Zooper31
United States5713 Posts
On August 15 2016 06:54 QuanticHawk wrote: the marketing was intentionally deceptive specifically about multiplayer. How so? I know a set of people met in the game in real time and couldn't see each other. But that has been alluded to being a server issue, though we don't know for sure quite yet without an official response. They said the game was multiplayer as in, you could meet other players. They said there wasn't any PvP action and you should never really even expect to meet another player. So basically it's a singleplayer game, how was that wrong? | ||
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