|
On May 27 2016 01:34 Warri wrote:
The biggest thing added in BNW is Tourism, and it ties all the other new things like religion and ideologies neatly together.
Ideologies are not just an additional techtree giving you bonus. If a player goes for a tourism victory and you chose the wrong ideology you will be massively unhappy and forced to invest more into happiness, fight the tourism player or change ideology, which results in 2 turns of no production, science and losing a lot of invested culture. You have to decide if you want to invest more into an ideology(and potentially lose more) or continue on the normal social policies.
Religion also opens up new ways to play. You can invest heavily into generating faith and then choose a belief that allows you to buy military units with it instead of gold. You can play more greedy with less units and choose a defensive religion. You can skip religion altogether and get one from neighbors.
Of course there are beliefs and ideology policies which are just +2 food or +1 faith per tile or +1 happiness for x building. But overall they have a huge impact on gameplay.
You're just describing the effects that these things have, but not the ways in which they actually improve the core gameplay. Obviously every feature will have some effect on what happens in the game and what you can do as a player, but that doesn't mean the feature was necessary or good.
In essence, they don't really change (let alone improve) the core gameplay at all, they just add more busywork and numbers to keep track of. The only feature in the expansions that actually affects the dynamics of how the game is played are the Caravans - they're actually on the map and interactive, not just a choice in some menu that changes a number. You could argue Espionage is a little bit like that, but Espionage itself just plays out in a sub-screen and just detracts from the core gameplay, which is moving things around the map and doing things with the map.
Even Jon Shafer himself said that the new Civilization features are very uninspired and problematic, and that expanding upon the core functionality of Civilization was a big problem for the studio for the past few iterations of the game. link
|
They also added the science penalty for expanding which completely changes the way the game plays. It's very much less a game about playing the map and more about playing all these other menus.
|
On May 12 2016 18:05 Laserist wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2016 09:33 Godwrath wrote:On May 12 2016 06:14 Kon-Tiki wrote:On May 12 2016 02:31 Godwrath wrote:
Well, knowing their record, i will start playing it when it has released 1-2 expansions. Civ IV was good before Warlords or BTS. That was more than a decade ago, times change. Times change but tastes hardly. C4 is still by far the best Civ game for me. It has its own quirks but really liked many aspects of that game. Civ5 is too dumbed down for my taste.
If alpha centauri counts as a civ game then that would be my favorite, followed reasonably closely by civ 4. The rest all fall short.
|
On May 28 2016 22:20 chocorush wrote:
They also added the science penalty for expanding which completely changes the way the game plays. It's very much less a game about playing the map and more about playing all these other menus.
Playing the map is the essence of the core game loop. The game is about that. The fact that you have to spend so much time bogged down in screens that the game is not about is a major design flaw that mostly proliferated in the expansions, although a separate Culture system and Culture points were already a red flag.
Whereas initially only the Culture system was this weird thing that had its own counter and points to collect, now there are Tourism points and Religion points and Espionage which is like a minigame of its own, and Ideologies which are nested inside Social Policies, so they're like the subsystem of a subsystem. Then Tourism has works of art which combine to create special bonuses and put them inside buildings, blah blah blah. It's gone so far off the baseline that you can't even see the baseline anymore.
Civilization isn't a simulation game. Civilization is about building cities, building stuff inside cities, researching technology to build better stuff, then using stuff to dominate the map in some way. It's not about micromanaging paintings or lobbying for UN votes. Out of all the secondary systems tacked on to this foundation, only diplomacy is a part of what the game is about.
|
The one thing i wish they'd bring back most from Alpha Centauri is how you could customize unit types as you gained technology.
The new armies thing sounds like it could be good if done right though. I am also hopeful that the new city building mechanics work well, although the disticts thing seem kind of weird - In New York for example NYUniversity and The United Nations are in Manhattan, why does it make sense that you'd have to build those things miles and miles outside the city.
|
On May 29 2016 01:35 TheFish7 wrote:
The one thing i wish they'd bring back most from Alpha Centauri is how you could customize unit types as you gained technology.
The new armies thing sounds like it could be good if done right though. I am also hopeful that the new city building mechanics work well, although the disticts thing seem kind of weird - In New York for example NYUniversity and The United Nations are in Manhattan, why does it make sense that you'd have to build those things miles and miles outside the city.
Universities are usually in cities. If not when they are built then after a few decades when the surroundings has turned into a city to house everybody working or studying there.
I can see a case for having other important buildings a bit away from there due to the above mentioned housing issue. Though that requires city planing and not the normal organic growth.
|
On May 28 2016 20:03 Talin wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2016 01:34 Warri wrote:
The biggest thing added in BNW is Tourism, and it ties all the other new things like religion and ideologies neatly together.
Ideologies are not just an additional techtree giving you bonus. If a player goes for a tourism victory and you chose the wrong ideology you will be massively unhappy and forced to invest more into happiness, fight the tourism player or change ideology, which results in 2 turns of no production, science and losing a lot of invested culture. You have to decide if you want to invest more into an ideology(and potentially lose more) or continue on the normal social policies.
Religion also opens up new ways to play. You can invest heavily into generating faith and then choose a belief that allows you to buy military units with it instead of gold. You can play more greedy with less units and choose a defensive religion. You can skip religion altogether and get one from neighbors.
Of course there are beliefs and ideology policies which are just +2 food or +1 faith per tile or +1 happiness for x building. But overall they have a huge impact on gameplay. You're just describing the effects that these things have, but not the ways in which they actually improve the core gameplay. Obviously every feature will have some effect on what happens in the game and what you can do as a player, but that doesn't mean the feature was necessary or good. In essence, they don't really change (let alone improve) the core gameplay at all, they just add more busywork and numbers to keep track of. The only feature in the expansions that actually affects the dynamics of how the game is played are the Caravans - they're actually on the map and interactive, not just a choice in some menu that changes a number. You could argue Espionage is a little bit like that, but Espionage itself just plays out in a sub-screen and just detracts from the core gameplay, which is moving things around the map and doing things with the map. Even Jon Shafer himself said that the new Civilization features are very uninspired and problematic, and that expanding upon the core functionality of Civilization was a big problem for the studio for the past few iterations of the game. link
Ah, i see what you mean. I havent played much Civ other than FreeCiv years ago for a little and now Civ 5 so i have no reference.
How about this then. Special religion and ideology perks allow for city placement that would otherwise have been terrible. For example you can settle a less defensible spot and choose the protection pantheon to make up for that. Relying on faith generation rather than gold generation to buy units also changes where you can settle and how you play. In midgame, the Order ideology enhances your ability to settle new cities by reducing building cost and letting cities start with more population. A tourism player will force you to do something about him rather than sit back and sim city. Letting your cities get converted to another player's religion can also put you at a disadvantage so you have to look out for that and prevent him from spamming missionaries.
|
I'm still playing the 1994 Colonization. Such a damn, fun addicting game.
|
There are several things I wish they would address.
Diplomacy is poor in 5 and needs a lot of work. Why can't i request someone to spread a religion to me? Why can't I request them to stop spreading their religion to me until they do it once? Why does the AI forward settle me and then demand I stop settling near them?
Second, settling cities past mid game is rarely worth it. Takes too long to build stuff, buying is too expensive, that city will be a drain for the rest of the game. The only 2 reasons to settle are to get newly discovered strategics if you have none near you, or to rush buy ships if you are land locked and want/need a fleet.
Or just give me a civ reskin of Endless Legend, that would be amazing.
|
It sounds like they're taking a lot of "upgrades" to the civ-genre from Endless Legend actually, which has me pretty excited. ^^
|
On May 31 2016 01:52 Incognoto wrote:
I'm still playing the 1994 Colonization. Such a damn, fun addicting game.
You could switch to new Colonization that was I think made in Civ 4 engine. It is also very fun and cool.
|
On June 07 2016 19:05 -Archangel- wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2016 01:52 Incognoto wrote:
I'm still playing the 1994 Colonization. Such a damn, fun addicting game. You could switch to new Colonization that was I think made in Civ 4 engine. It is also very fun and cool.
Agreed. Colonization was probably my favourite game of that era and the remake is surprisingly good.
|
funnily enough that's exactly what i ended up doing
it came in the mail today
amazon had it for €4 (including shipping) vs steam where it's €20 lol what
|
On June 08 2016 05:18 Incognoto wrote:
funnily enough that's exactly what i ended up doing
it came in the mail today
amazon had it for €4 (including shipping) vs steam where it's €20 lol what
Well you will have fun, from what I remember the game is very close to original Colonization (I played that as well when it was out - I am that old :D)
|
It's quite fun!
I downloaded the TAC mod for it, very good. Quite close to the original game, some things have changed and there are improvements. Very enjoyable.
|
I don't mind the graphics either. Looking forward to this!
|
|
|
So Civilization 6 is multi platform...
This Civilization 6 preview was based on a pre-release PlayStation 4 demo of the game at an event where refreshments were provided by 2K Games
Source
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
