EPTSometimes it is hard to put into words but working as a game designer or in a related field must be really hard/suck often because the environment you work in/ the gaming communities are sooo enormously toxic.
Fallout 4! - Page 48
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AngryMag
Germany1040 Posts
Sometimes it is hard to put into words but working as a game designer or in a related field must be really hard/suck often because the environment you work in/ the gaming communities are sooo enormously toxic. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On November 12 2015 02:08 -Archangel- wrote: Read it again and you will understand. I hope or it is pointless to continue talking to you. But none of that references that fact that people think you address these points like an asshole. I never referenced nostalgia in any of my arguments. | ||
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Dysisa
Sweden2376 Posts
On November 12 2015 02:12 AngryMag wrote: Only on TL a game like Fallout 4 is actually called bad. Or the comparisons with Witcher 3, like it ruins every game with similar world/mechanics afterwards. Dear god, do you compare your favorite movie with every movie you watch after that? Is Lasagne shit because you like Pizza a bit more? Is every other sport shit because you like football the most? Sometimes it is hard to put into words but working as a game designer or in a related field must be really hard/suck often because the environment you work in/ the gaming communities are sooo enormously toxic. Can't be that bad if all the negativity is contained on TL as you say.  | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On November 12 2015 02:12 AngryMag wrote: Dear god, do you compare your favorite movie with every movie you watch after that? Well movie critics have jobs precisely to criticize film down to the minutiae. They're far more critical than the average viewer and that harshly critical opinion has value to people. When someone's schedule means they can only play one 80+ hour RPG a year, and there are like 5 or more classic greats that they have yet to play, then yes, a new release has to compare to that top 5 to be able to be worth playing for them. This doesn't apply to everyone, but there are plenty of people who don't have enough gaming time in their lives to play an 80-hour game that they'd only consider "pretty good" or "above average". That's the unfortunate consequence of a genre where the expected gameplay is a complete 50+ hour experience. | ||
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Zandar
Netherlands1541 Posts
On November 12 2015 02:12 AngryMag wrote: Only on TL a game like Fallout 4 is actually called bad. Or the comparisons with Witcher 3, like it ruins every game with similar world/mechanics afterwards. Dear god, do you compare your favorite movie with every movie you watch after that? Is Lasagne shit because you like Pizza a bit more? Is every other sport shit because you like football the most? Sometimes it is hard to put into words but working as a game designer or in a related field must be really hard/suck often because the environment you work in/ the gaming communities are sooo enormously toxic. Only on TL? http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/fallout-4/user-reviews | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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AngryMag
Germany1040 Posts
On November 12 2015 02:34 TheYango wrote: It really isn't, though. Well movie critics have jobs precisely to criticize film down to the minutiae. They're far more critical than the average viewer and that harshly critical opinion has value to people. Of course and rightfully so, but there are shades, nuances. Here we have people saying Fallout 4 is flatout shit and this is simply nonsense and nothing else. A well expressed opinion would look like "this and this and this are weaknesses, this and this are strengths". If critique would take this form, game designers could eventually take it serious but in the form it usually gets expressed ala "it's shit" it resembles a child throwing a temper tantrum because it doesn't get exactly what it wants. This isn't constructive criticism, it isn't criticism at all but venting. Stop the whinging, jump in your big boy pants and offer thought out and constructive criticism instead. | ||
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PhoenixVoid
Canada32746 Posts
On November 12 2015 02:12 AngryMag wrote: Only on TL a game like Fallout 4 is actually called bad. Or the comparisons with Witcher 3, like it ruins every game with similar world/mechanics afterwards. Dear god, do you compare your favorite movie with every movie you watch after that? Is Lasagne shit because you like Pizza a bit more? Is every other sport shit because you like football the most? Sometimes it is hard to put into words but working as a game designer or in a related field must be really hard/suck often because the environment you work in/ the gaming communities are sooo enormously toxic. Apparently you missed the huge user score bomb on Metacritic or the relatively low score on Steam user reviews. And TL is actually quite kind to Fo4 compared to some of the places I've been. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On November 12 2015 02:46 AngryMag wrote: A well expressed opinion would look like "this and this and this are weaknesses, this and this are strengths". Well that would imply that anyone complaining that vehemently about the game is actually playing it. On November 12 2015 02:46 AngryMag wrote: If critique would take this form, game designers could eventually take it serious but in the form it usually gets expressed ala "it's shit" it resembles a child throwing a temper tantrum because it doesn't get exactly what it wants. Most attempts at constructed criticism for Bethesda gave up after the Morrowind->Oblivion and Oblivion->FO3 transitions. | ||
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AngryMag
Germany1040 Posts
On November 12 2015 02:34 TheYango wrote: It really isn't, though. Well movie critics have jobs precisely to criticize film down to the minutiae. They're far more critical than the average viewer and that harshly critical opinion has value to people. When someone's schedule means they can only play one 80+ hour RPG a year, and there are like 5 or more classic greats that they have yet to play, then yes, a new release has to compare to that top 5 to be able to be worth playing for them. This doesn't apply to everyone, but there are plenty of people who don't have enough gaming time in their lives to play an 80-hour game that they'd only consider "pretty good" or "above average". That's the unfortunate consequence of a genre where the expected gameplay is a complete 50+ hour experience. And this is perfectly fine, the game is still far above average and pretty good. One could say "pretty good, but I just want to play even better games" or something like that. It's shit just doesn't cut it no matter how you slice it. | ||
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daemir
Finland8662 Posts
 I just wanna rumble around in my power armor, why beth has to ruin it.e: ha, ofc, as soon as I spend the resources to build a handcrafted sniper rifle, the next location I visit has an actual sniper rifle for me to loot. Figures. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On November 12 2015 02:46 AngryMag wrote: Of course and rightfully so, but there are shades, nuances. Here we have people saying Fallout 4 is flatout shit and this is simply nonsense and nothing else. A well expressed opinion would look like "this and this and this are weaknesses, this and this are strengths". If critique would take this form, game designers could eventually take it serious but in the form it usually gets expressed ala "it's shit" it resembles a child throwing a temper tantrum because it doesn't get exactly what it wants. This isn't constructive criticism, it isn't criticism at all but venting. Stop the whinging, jump in your big boy pants and offer thought out and constructive criticism instead. Video game communities in general have a very shallow understanding of critique and criticism and boil it down to some binary state. Its annoy, but the medium is pretty young and its critics have mostly been in the vein of consumer reviews. That is changing of course, but people still obsess over scores and metrics to justify and reinforce their fandom. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On November 12 2015 02:52 Plansix wrote: Video game communities in general have a very shallow understanding of critique and criticism and boil it down to some binary state. Its annoy, but the medium is pretty young and its critics have mostly been in the vein of consumer reviews. That is changing of course, but people still obsess over scores and metrics to justify and reinforce their fandom. It's sort of a weird dichotomy where the people who are most critical about games tend to be absolutely terrible about expressing themselves; and on the flip side the people who write eloquently and are paid to do it tend to not be as harshly critical as critics of other media. There are some occasional gems scattered across niche interest communities (TL's analysis articles throughout SC2's lifespan for example offer harsh-but-level-headed criticisms toward various problems in the game's design), but they are few and far between. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On November 12 2015 02:54 TheYango wrote: It's sort of a weird dichotomy where the people who are most critical about games tend to be absolutely terrible about expressing themselves; and on the flip side the people who write eloquently and are paid to do it tend to not be as harshly critical as critics of other media. And the lack of understanding that criticism games of a specific game does not mean that the game is bad. I can pick apart most of my favorite games and find parts that didn’t work, poor writing or how it made a half assed attempt to address the politics of the day. But I still like those games. But when critics try to dive into those mature areas of critique, the current video game fan base response poorly or views it as an attack on what they like. Or they want “politics out of video games” and then play a game about fighting terrorist or Nazis. And if people want a deep dive into games like Dota, SC2, of CounterStrike it just devolves into factionalism about anything but the topic of the deep, critical review. The best impression I saw of Fall Out 4 was “Its fine. It meets the bar set by AAA games. It gets there. Its not perfect, not amazing, not perfect, not ground breaking, it won’t change your life. Its not evil or bad and won't kill your dog. Its fine.” | ||
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trifecta
United States6795 Posts
On November 12 2015 03:02 Plansix wrote: And the lack of understanding that criticism games of a specific game does not mean that the game is bad. I can pick apart most of my favorite games and find parts that didn’t work, poor writing or how it made a half assed attempt to address the politics of the day. But I still like those games. But when critics try to dive into those mature areas of critique, the current video game fan base response poorly or views it as an attack on what they like. Or they want “politics out of video games” and then play a game about fighting terrorist or Nazis. And if people want a deep dive into games like Dota, SC2, of CounterStrike it just devolves into factionalism about anything but the topic of the deep, critical review. The best impression I saw of Fall Out 4 was “Its fine. It meets the bar set by AAA games. It gets there. Its not perfect, not amazing, not perfect, not ground breaking, it won’t change your life. Its not evil or bad and won't kill your dog. Its fine.” the epitome of this was the ign 6.5/10 heroes of the storm review lmao. the internet is an amplification chamber for people's need for validation and 'gamers' seem to be among the most needy. | ||
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ZasZ.
United States2911 Posts
On November 12 2015 02:34 TheYango wrote: It really isn't, though. Well movie critics have jobs precisely to criticize film down to the minutiae. They're far more critical than the average viewer and that harshly critical opinion has value to people. When someone's schedule means they can only play one 80+ hour RPG a year, and there are like 5 or more classic greats that they have yet to play, then yes, a new release has to compare to that top 5 to be able to be worth playing for them. This doesn't apply to everyone, but there are plenty of people who don't have enough gaming time in their lives to play an 80-hour game that they'd only consider "pretty good" or "above average". That's the unfortunate consequence of a genre where the expected gameplay is a complete 50+ hour experience. As one of those people, I get that. What a sane person does, however, is just not play a game they see as average if it requires that kind of time investment, and especially at the $60 price tag. These arguments come from the perspective of opportunity cost (what the game could have been) and Fallout's legacy (what the game should have been). It makes no sense. If you don't like what you see of Fallout 4, don't play it, it's a pretty simple solution. The fact that other people enjoy it should have no bearing on your sense of self-worth, requiring you to lash out at people with different tastes. I used "you" a lot but am not really referring specifically to Yango here. I'm just sick of the "get off my lawn" mentality where a random player thinks their vision of a game is the only correct vision of a game, and as a result despises all of the people that enjoy the game for what it actually is, as opposed to what it should or could be in a parallel universe. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On November 12 2015 03:09 trifecta wrote: the epitome of this was the ign 6.5/10 heroes of the storm review lmao. the internet is an amplification chamber for people's need for validation and 'gamers' seem to be among the most needy. People still harass him about that review to this day. Like at Cons and E3, in person and online. Fandom sucks. | ||
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Kickstart
United States1941 Posts
Combat is still wonky to me, I've found the easiest thing to do is to just run away from shit and hide behind my companion who kills everything in 1-2 hits or so :/. The laser rifle seems to do the most damage but it is easy to miss it seems and then the reload time screws you. I probably just need to play around with the weapons and the pots and stuff and combat will make more sense. | ||
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RagequitBM
Canada2270 Posts
On November 12 2015 01:53 -Archangel- wrote: There are different ways to say it. When someone uses nostalgia word that is not much different than saying you "are old and don't remember well" or "you are too stupid to understand modern games". Dang, if this is what you take from the word nostalgia, you have a very negative outlook on things. Something common amongst gamers it seems. Your opinion is fine, I enjoyed FO1 and 2 as well. I don't go in to threads of games I don't like and start calling anyone who likes it a tool though. Because at the end of the day video games mean nothing. Stop taking them so seriously, and let everyone enjoy what they wanna enjoy my man | ||
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amazingxkcd
GRAND OLD AMERICA16375 Posts
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