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Biff The Understudy
France7953 Posts
On September 24 2017 14:58 xDaunt wrote: This battle is nuts. That was glorious.. can't wait for the release, the game looks like pure candy. I also am extremely curious about what will be in Warhammer 3. A fully fleshed demon of chaos faction with their four sub-factions is going to be absolutely amazing. I hope they take time at one point to flesh out empire factions. I want those polar bear knights!! | ||
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andrewlt
United States7702 Posts
On September 24 2017 13:12 xDaunt wrote: I usually place all 4 units of outriders in an aggressive vanguard position on one of the flanks of the enemy army. I'm not looking to use the outriders to control the flanks so much as I am looking to pick off vulnerable enemy units. The nice thing about the Empire is that you have lots of options for how you can play the flanks. A couple of handgunners and a halberdier can deal with multiple enemy units on a flank if you micro well enough. Now, if the enemy really comes in heavy on a flank, I'll send an outrider or two to help, but that's not really what I want to use them for. I mistyped there. I meant I have 2 units of cavalry in each flank, but I guess you got my meaning. Doing what you are doing, wouldn't you normally end up using vanguard deployment to wreck the AI cavalry on that flank or having them chase 1-2 of your outrider units so the rest can pick off enemy units without getting bothered? When you mentioned using 4 outriders, the best idea I could think of using them is to have them all in one flank focus firing on the AI cavalry so you can start peeling of units before the lines of battle are joined without the enemy cavalry being bothersome. | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
On September 25 2017 03:20 andrewlt wrote: I mistyped there. I meant I have 2 units of cavalry in each flank, but I guess you got my meaning. Doing what you are doing, wouldn't you normally end up using vanguard deployment to wreck the AI cavalry on that flank or having them chase 1-2 of your outrider units so the rest can pick off enemy units without getting bothered? When you mentioned using 4 outriders, the best idea I could think of using them is to have them all in one flank focus firing on the AI cavalry so you can start peeling of units before the lines of battle are joined without the enemy cavalry being bothersome. Yeah, sometimes I'll use the Outriders to pick off other cav. It just kinda depends upon what the AI gives me. The dream, however, is to ultimately have my outriders lined up directly behind the enemy army, pouring fire into it. | ||
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Biff The Understudy
France7953 Posts
On September 25 2017 03:55 xDaunt wrote: Yeah, sometimes I'll use the Outriders to pick off other cav. It just kinda depends upon what the AI gives me. The dream, however, is to ultimately have my outriders lined up directly behind the enemy army, pouring fire into it. You still need an answer to, say, Norscan ice wolves, why eat outriders for breakfast, lunch and dinner. Maybe they would reaaaally shine coupled with halberd demigryphs: help wreck ennemy cav, then when superiority is establish, flank and shoot those footmen in the face. Or rather the back. | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
On September 26 2017 00:09 Biff The Understudy wrote: You still need an answer to, say, Norscan ice wolves, why eat outriders for breakfast, lunch and dinner. Maybe they would reaaaally shine coupled with halberd demigryphs: help wreck ennemy cav, then when superiority is establish, flank and shoot those footmen in the face. Or rather the back. I didn't really have to deal with ice wolves much in the campaign. When I did, I just gunned them down with all of my ranged units. But of all of the units that I left out of my comps, the one that I missed the most was the demigryph with the halberd, just because that thing is a fucking beast on the flank and solves so many problems for the Empire. I didn't really miss tanks as much as I thought I would. The halberdiers did a decent job holding the line, and I don't think that even had to fight a siege battle after turn 60. Everything battle that I fought after that point was in the open field, because I was done expanding militarily. Also, the reviews for WH2 are coming out. The game is getting very high scores and very glowing reviews. | ||
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andrewlt
United States7702 Posts
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
On September 26 2017 00:55 andrewlt wrote: The logic behind halberd demigryphs amuses me. They are 40% the size of reiksguard cavalry and IIRC, barely have better stats, maybe even have lower stats. They are more effective because, watching the battle zoomed in, the gryph does most of the damage. I just imagine the halberd as a stat stick for the bird, since the rider doesn't really do much for the unit to suddenly be anti-large. They do armor piercing and have an AoE component to their attack as well. EDIT: I will say this -- Reiksguard are really good with Franz's new skill tree. | ||
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andrewlt
United States7702 Posts
On September 26 2017 01:04 xDaunt wrote: They do armor piercing and have an AoE component to their attack as well. EDIT: I will say this -- Reiksguard are really good with Franz's new skill tree. From what I understand, the stats on the stat screen are for the human riders, not the birds. If the birds have the same stats, then there shouldn't be a big difference between halberd demigryphs and regular demigryphs vs large units since the birds do most of the damage. | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
On September 26 2017 01:46 andrewlt wrote: From what I understand, the stats on the stat screen are for the human riders, not the birds. If the birds have the same stats, then there shouldn't be a big difference between halberd demigryphs and regular demigryphs vs large units since the birds do most of the damage. Really? Where did you see that? And how would that even work? It certainly doesn't work that way for lords and their mounts. | ||
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Biff The Understudy
France7953 Posts
On September 26 2017 01:04 xDaunt wrote: They do armor piercing and have an AoE component to their attack as well. EDIT: I will say this -- Reiksguard are really good with Franz's new skill tree. What changed in KF's skill tree? Was unaware of that.. | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
On September 26 2017 03:39 Biff The Understudy wrote: What changed in KF's skill tree? Was unaware of that.. His new unique skill line has the "Imperial Special Forces" talent, which gives Reiksgard +10 to large and +8 to MA. | ||
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Biff The Understudy
France7953 Posts
On September 26 2017 03:49 xDaunt wrote: His new unique skill line has the "Imperial Special Forces" talent, which give Reiksgard +10 to large and +8 to MA. Wuuuut? Really? That's amazing! Should be included in MP. I think Reiksguard are quite good as they are to run over infantry; I use them in mp quite a lot. But in single player, demis are more polyvalent and overall better. You also always want them to establish cav superiority, which is a bit the weaker point of Reiksguard imo. Would love to see how they compare with the buff. I think in general that Franz is a bit weak himself by the way. In mp, Boris is simply a better choice. Being able to use potions or giving him a natural regen object would maybe fix the problem. | ||
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Biff The Understudy
France7953 Posts
On September 26 2017 01:46 andrewlt wrote: From what I understand, the stats on the stat screen are for the human riders, not the birds. If the birds have the same stats, then there shouldn't be a big difference between halberd demigryphs and regular demigryphs vs large units since the birds do most of the damage. What? The game doesn't discriminate between the mount and its rider. It's just one model. The animation means nothing, it's just an aesthetic thing. And the damage of demigryph knights, which is what really counts, is insane. | ||
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andrewlt
United States7702 Posts
Still trying to figure out why Franz seemed to suddenly perform better on the gryphon while having worse stats than the previous steed though I think that's because the game doesn't properly update stats until you exit out of the stat screen then go back in again. | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
Looking at some other WH2 videos, I'm quite satisfied that magic has been properly buffed. Teclis is a monster. Now I just hope that they fix artillery stats. Nothing pissed me off more than watching batteries of hellblaster volley guns get badly outperformed by handgunners. | ||
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andrewlt
United States7702 Posts
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
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andrewlt
United States7702 Posts
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Yoav
United States1874 Posts
On September 26 2017 10:55 andrewlt wrote: Yeah, I'm on my third campaign and the stats still aren't intuitive even though I have a decent understanding on how they work mathematically. In fact, I finished the entire Empire campaign without figuring out if steam tanks can fire their cannon while in melee. That and if the steam coming out of them is animation only or if it's an actual third attack that's not listed as either melee or range damage. I'm not honestly sure I get how the stats work mathematically. But I do know that they don't capture all sorts of important stuff, like mass, knockback/down, effects of bracing (I still have no idea when you want to brace and when to countercharge and just do it by what "feels right"), surface area, unit model loss, etc., and as a result I treat it like voodoo. Try to just learn which units kill which, and which ones take a long time to die. Oh, and the only stat that makes any sense I can figure is AP versus armor. (And AP you have to hover over the silly damage number.) | ||
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Yoav
United States1874 Posts
On September 26 2017 07:40 xDaunt wrote: Looking at some other WH2 videos, I'm quite satisfied that magic has been properly buffed. Teclis is a monster. Now I just hope that they fix artillery stats. Teclis in campaign videos has been unreal. Is his Flock of Doom souped up or is it standard? If standard, Durthu just got a crazy strong buff. Artillery is weird. It needs a buff, but it's hard to balance in general due to how much better it's always gonna be in singleplayer than multi. Any competent online opponent is always gonna try to take out your artillery, and the AI usually can't be bothered or can't figure out a way, which means "balanced" artillery in multiplayer becomes "uberpowerful cheese" in campaign, and the correct way to play legendary. | ||
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