EPTTotal War: Warhammer - Page 56
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FeyFey
Germany10114 Posts
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Yoav
United States1874 Posts
On September 22 2017 08:45 xDaunt wrote: Alright, I've fired up a new empire campaign. I'm going full blown (honest) steel, faith, and gunpowder. My self-imposed rules are as follows: no tanks, demis, great swords, or reiksguard. I can use knights of the blazing sun (I rolled with Volkmar). I'll let you know how it goes. Do you play VH or legendary? Also that's a cool concept. Curious how it turns out. | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
On September 22 2017 08:50 Yoav wrote: Do you play VH or legendary? Also that's a cool concept. Curious how it turns out. I'm playing a modified version of legendary that leaves the legendary AI campaign bonuses intact, strips the unit advantages, and boosts the Chaos invasion. So far, so good on the campaign. It's around turn 45. I own Reikland, Stirland, Talebcland, West Sylvania, East Sylvania, and Ostermark. I teched straight to handgunners and headed east at around Turn 22 to invade Vampire lands after confederating with Stirland. I wiped them out, then confederated with Talebicland, who had taken over Ostermark with my help. Chaos just started invading. I'll confederate and consolidate Wissenland next (they're in bad shape, though they own Averheim) before heading north. | ||
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Biff The Understudy
France7804 Posts
On September 22 2017 10:25 xDaunt wrote: I'm playing a modified version of legendary that leaves the legendary AI campaign bonuses intact, strips the unit advantages, and boosts the Chaos invasion. So far, so good on the campaign. It's around turn 45. I own Reikland, Stirland, Talebcland, West Sylvania, East Sylvania, and Ostermark. I teched straight to handgunners and headed east at around Turn 22 to invade Vampire lands after confederating with Stirland. I wiped them out, then confederated with Talebicland, who had taken over Ostermark with my help. Chaos just started invading. I'll confederate and consolidate Wissenland next (they're in bad shape, though they own Averheim) before heading north. Nice challenge, good luck!! How do you manage to keep up with such an expantionist strategy? The empire is a mess to defend in my experience so i always try to take it slowly and bit by bit. That being said since teching up won't really bring you any new game changing units, i guess it makes little sense to wait before going for it. I wish CA made a ratio of unit per category per stack. There were one in tabletop. A hammerer unit should feel special, and at no point a dwarf warrior should be completely useless. In the campaign, even introducing a price cap per stack could be sufficient. | ||
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ahswtini
Northern Ireland22206 Posts
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B.I.G.
3251 Posts
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Biff The Understudy
France7804 Posts
On September 22 2017 19:34 ahswtini wrote: well i thought that is the point of the upkeep costs. Except that it's still not worth having a sinle miner or dwarf warrior in a late game dwarf army. It's simply better to pay a bit more and start at the very least with longbeards with GW. One solution would be to inflict an exponential upkeep penalty when you have more than X elite units in an army. Hammerers for example are a very, very special bodyduard unit in the lore. Finishing the game with 8 stacks with 6 hammerers each and no warriors might make sense strategy wise, but it sucks and makes the game simply poorer. It's like playing a napoleon war game and have no regular troops, only grenadier de la garde. It makes 0 sense. The whole point of an elite unit is that they are the rare exception, better soldiers than the average. | ||
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JacobShock
Denmark2485 Posts
On September 22 2017 19:46 Biff The Understudy wrote: Except that it's still not worth having a sinle miner or dwarf warrior in a late game dwarf army. It's simply better to pay a bit more and start at the very least with longbeards with GW. One solution would be to inflict an exponential upkeep penalty when you have more than X elite units in an army. Hammerers for example are a very, very special bodyduard unit in the lore. Finishing the game with 8 stacks with 6 hammerers each and no warriors might make sense strategy wise, but it sucks and makes the game simply poorer. It's like playing a napoleon war game and have no regular troops, only grenadier de la garde. It makes 0 sense. The whole point of an elite unit is that they are the rare exception, better soldiers than the average. I agree and like that suggestion, but I'm also the weird guy that plays on medium unit sizes because it feels more lore friendly to me, or at least closer to tabletop without being boring. | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
On September 22 2017 18:16 Biff The Understudy wrote: Nice challenge, good luck!! How do you manage to keep up with such an expantionist strategy? The empire is a mess to defend in my experience so i always try to take it slowly and bit by bit. That being said since teching up won't really bring you any new game changing units, i guess it makes little sense to wait before going for it. There really isn't that much to worry about early game with Empire anymore. Securing Reikland by turn 5 is routine. Your only enemies at that point will be Skullsmasherz and Beastmen. I think that CA modded AI behavior such that they're less of a problem than they used to be. I never saw either approach Reikland in my past two campaigns. In my latest campaign, Bretonnia had even seized Marienberg by turn 5, which sucks for obvious reasons (I haven't decided whether I'm going to let them keep it). Talebcland and Stirland are easy to ally, so you don't have to worry about them. Wissenland is easy to ally as well and will be dealing with Crook Moon and Karak Hirn anyway. Toddbringer is less of a dick than he used to be and will have his hands full with other stuff in the north. Long story short, there isn't that much that you have to worry about in terms of immediate threats in the early game. Once you get walls in all of your minor settlements in Reikland, it's very safe to sally out with your main army, leaving a partial army behind to deal with random shit. For example, one of the wood elf factions sieged Helmgart, but my reinforcing army, combined with the garrison, made short work of the stack. As for the expansion in the East, I didn't really conquer much. I took the Sylvanias, but everything else was done through confederation. I only had to fight and win two critical battles. In the first, my Volkmar army flattened two Ostermark stacks, which allowed Talebcland to capture all of Ostermark. For the second, Volkmar and Franz broke two Vampire Count stacks in a defensive battle at Fort Oberstyre. I reinforced with a third, mortar heavy stack led by Gelt, and just blitzed through Templehof and Drakenhof, effectively dismantling to the Vampire Counts. After that, I mopped up the Sylvanias, confederated Talebecland (having already confederated Stirland), confederated Wissenland (which owned Averland), and then spent the next 10 turns consolidating my position, which involved fending off Crooked Moon, securing peace with Karak Hirn, and killing a bunch of rebel stacks from all of my confederating. The rebel stacks are the biggest pain in the ass because they're spawning with tanks, hellblaster volley guns, and demigryphs. I have roughly 6 stacks or so rotating around my territories cleaning up all of this mess. I'm not sure where I'm going to go next. Kislev has expanded a bunch and taken over Ostland, but they're about to get hammered by Chaos. There's not much to do in the south in Border Prince land. I may just go west into Bretonnian lands for shits and giggles. We'll see. I wish CA made a ratio of unit per category per stack. There were one in tabletop. A hammerer unit should feel special, and at no point a dwarf warrior should be completely useless. In the campaign, even introducing a price cap per stack could be sufficient. Yeah, this is what they should have done. | ||
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Jerubaal
United States7684 Posts
I wonder if they could bump up the experience system a bit or give an upgrade option. | ||
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Yurie
11683 Posts
On September 22 2017 23:54 Jerubaal wrote: That would really mess up the feeling of gradually increasing power, though. A stock army with one elite unit would not feel that much more powerful. I wonder if they could bump up the experience system a bit or give an upgrade option. The upgrade route is probably best. Level the unit to level 3 and it can be upgraded to a higher tier unit. Downside is that it would make it hard to make high tier units if you lost them. You would never see the AI field them either since you would wipe them before they got the levels. So a compromise of faction wide recruit limit so the AI and you can have some, then for more the upgrade route. | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
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Biff The Understudy
France7804 Posts
On September 23 2017 00:27 xDaunt wrote: The best solution would be to adopt the table top rule where the armies are forced to be composed of a certain percentage of "core" units. yep. The tabletop system was great at avoiding goofy armies and cheesy buils. Would tremendously improve mulyiplayer too  | ||
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Manit0u
Poland17187 Posts
On September 23 2017 00:00 Yurie wrote: The upgrade route is probably best. Level the unit to level 3 and it can be upgraded to a higher tier unit. Downside is that it would make it hard to make high tier units if you lost them. You would never see the AI field them either since you would wipe them before they got the levels. So a compromise of faction wide recruit limit so the AI and you can have some, then for more the upgrade route. Disciples 2. Awesome game. | ||
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andrewlt
United States7702 Posts
In my empire playthrough, Bretonnia attacked Marienberg by around turn 5 too so whatever CA did is likely pushing the AI towards that direction. In my wood elves playthroughs, I'm noticing that certain stacks of beastmen ignore everything to go straight to the tree of ages. I'm not sure which is which though. I'm guessing it's the ones on a certain spawn timer either based on turns or based on your progress? I haven't upgraded my tree of ages yet in the grand campaign and have already noticed 1, maybe 2, of these type of stacks. It helps to be able to identify these so I know which ones won't attack my vulnerable outposts. So certain AI behavior seem to be hardcoded and I'd like to know what they are. | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
On September 23 2017 01:47 andrewlt wrote: Wouldn't that diminish certain units though? Part of the reason for taking a reiksguard is because it's cheaper than a demigryph. If you are forced to take x amount of swordsmen instead of greatswords or even tanks, then you likely would have enough funds to go pure demigryph. Unless, of course, the categories are broad enough but we're still back to the old problem of greatswords mostly replacing swordsmen in the late game if you can afford it. In my empire playthrough, Bretonnia attacked Marienberg by around turn 5 too so whatever CA did is likely pushing the AI towards that direction. In my wood elves playthroughs, I'm noticing that certain stacks of beastmen ignore everything to go straight to the tree of ages. I'm not sure which is which though. I'm guessing it's the ones on a certain spawn timer either based on turns or based on your progress? I haven't upgraded my tree of ages yet in the grand campaign and have already noticed 1, maybe 2, of these type of stacks. It helps to be able to identify these so I know which ones won't attack my vulnerable outposts. So certain AI behavior seem to be hardcoded and I'd like to know what they are. Yeah, the AI definitely behaves differently now. It used to be coded to gangbang the player on higher difficulties. It has different priorities now. I'm guessing a lot of this has to do with CA wanting to improve the AI Empire's situation. It was always kinda dumb to see the Empire be routinely crippled, if not wiped out, within the first 20 turns. I took a glance at my Empire campaign map situation. I think that I'm going to have to invade Bretonnia. I don't have any good expansion options in any other direction, and those Bretonnian bastards have Marienberg. More importantly, however, Wood Elf Hitler is on the march and is wiping out all of the Bretonnian factions anyway. I could try and save the Bretonnians by declaring war on him, but 1) I hate fighting Wood Elves, 2) that would be a dangerous front to open with Chaos on the march, and 3) I hate fighting Wood Elves. So alas, Bretonnia is about to suffer the same fate as 1939 Poland. | ||
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Biff The Understudy
France7804 Posts
On September 23 2017 02:02 xDaunt wrote: Yeah, the AI definitely behaves differently now. It used to be coded to gangbang the player on higher difficulties. It has different priorities now. I'm guessing a lot of this has to do with CA wanting to improve the AI Empire's situation. It was always kinda dumb to see the Empire be routinely crippled, if not wiped out, within the first 20 turns. I took a glance at my Empire campaign map situation. I think that I'm going to have to invade Bretonnia. I don't have any good expansion options in any other direction, and those Bretonnian bastards have Marienberg. More importantly, however, Wood Elf Hitler is on the march and is wiping out all of the Bretonnian factions anyway. I could try and save the Bretonnians by declaring war on him, but 1) I hate fighting Wood Elves, 2) that would be a dangerous front to open with Chaos on the march, and 3) I hate fighting Wood Elves. So alas, Bretonnia is about to suffer the same fate as 1939 Poland. Their french accent is unsufferable anyway. Careful though, they might go "fetcher la vache." | ||
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andrewlt
United States7702 Posts
On September 23 2017 02:02 xDaunt wrote: Yeah, the AI definitely behaves differently now. It used to be coded to gangbang the player on higher difficulties. It has different priorities now. I'm guessing a lot of this has to do with CA wanting to improve the AI Empire's situation. It was always kinda dumb to see the Empire be routinely crippled, if not wiped out, within the first 20 turns. I took a glance at my Empire campaign map situation. I think that I'm going to have to invade Bretonnia. I don't have any good expansion options in any other direction, and those Bretonnian bastards have Marienberg. More importantly, however, Wood Elf Hitler is on the march and is wiping out all of the Bretonnian factions anyway. I could try and save the Bretonnians by declaring war on him, but 1) I hate fighting Wood Elves, 2) that would be a dangerous front to open with Chaos on the march, and 3) I hate fighting Wood Elves. So alas, Bretonnia is about to suffer the same fate as 1939 Poland. I only started playing the game after this summer's Steam sale so I never got to experience what it was like before. Part of the reason I stick to normal difficulty is I hated the AI gangbang on higher difficulties. I do the same thing for the Civ series unless I'm in the mood for Total War: Civ edition. Then I up the difficulty level and fight everybody. The changes do seem consistent for where CA is taking this series. The campaign objectives are more lore based rather than just conquer X amount of provinces and settlements. There is more RP in general. I just wish they had a more robust in-game wiki for those of us who are not steeped in Warhammer lore. Their current one is pretty clunky to navigate and get information out of. | ||
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Yoav
United States1874 Posts
xDaunt: I like the sound of your difficulty mod... I personally really prefer the AI not cheating outrageously in battles (an equal unit against an equal unit shouldn't be a decisive win for the AI) but am fine with campaign cheats. What's it called? | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
I played a little further in my campaign. Just as I was getting ready to hit Marienberg, Chaos and Wintertooth stacks showed up at Bechafen and four (!!!) stacks of Crooked Moon invaded Wissenland and started building poo towers everywhere. At the time, I thought that Crooked Moon was essentially finished. I had wiped their armies, they only had one minor settlement left (Grimhold) while being at war with other factions. I was forced to redeploy yet again to deal with this stuff. Franz and another lord held Bechafen, while Volkmar, Gelt, and two other lords went south to stomp some gobbos. My armies are mostly comprised of halberdiers, handgunners, and outriders, with some mortars sprinkled in. Gelt leads an artillery heavy army that has a bunch of mortars, cannons, and hellstorm rocket batteries that is meant to be used for sieges. It didn't take long for this four-army force to make short work of the gobbo armies. I caught two of the Crooked Moon armies with Gelt and Volkmar's forces. I was able to set up on a hill and draw the gobbos into a kill zone where 2 hellstorms, 6 mortars, 2 cannons, 12 handgunners, 3 outriders, Gelt, a bright wizard with banishment, and Volkmar with banishment waited. The gobbos didn't make it very far. They may have made contact with my line in two places. I lost less than 50 troops total. At one point, I was firing into 3000 goblins from three sides. The firepower was pretty damned cool. After wrecking the Crooked Moon armies, I pulled Franz back from Bechafen to camp Grimhold so as to finish the Ghal Maraz quest and then razed Grimhold once it was done. Before I pulled Franz back, I did have the opportunity to fight a Chaos stack with him and his low-rent gunpowder army. He had a bright wizard, 6 handgunners, 7 halberdiers, 1 hellstorm battery, and 4 outriders. I was impressed at how well the halberdiers held up. With honest steel and some promotions, they're at 40+/60+ on their MA/MD stats, which is nothing to sneeze at. Micromanaging the the flanks was a little tricky with the outriders because I couldn't really afford to pull many halberdiers to deal with chaos knights. The original intent here was to have two of these stacks working in conjunction so as to hit a critical mass of ranged firepower, so attacking a chaos stack with just one stack isn't ideal. Still, my army won decisively. | ||
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