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Sermokala
United States13937 Posts
On August 20 2017 03:10 Endymion wrote: jesus really??? so i have to drop like ~$120 to play the fully experience legally? Welcome to all of us when they annouced TW:WH back in the day. | ||
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andrewlt
United States7702 Posts
If like me, you haven't even played WH1 yet, you can get it at a substantial discount. And if you wait long enough after finishing it, maybe WH2 would be discounted by then. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands21689 Posts
The 4 base factions should keep you occupied for a while and the game on its own is well worth it. Imo its the best Total War game, tho I'm biased by also having played Warhammer :p | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
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Biff The Understudy
France7890 Posts
On August 20 2017 05:47 xDaunt wrote: If there was ever a game not to hesitate dropping a lot of money on, it's Total War: Warhammer. The value is incredible. I agree. And I don't get people complaining about paying dlc. The base game is already huge and with all the addition the game is monstrously big. There is no way they could spend months after months adding a gazillion new factions and content is everything was included in the original price. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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B.I.G.
3251 Posts
Saw some of the footage of Skaven and it seems they are adding more interesting mechanics / features like their cities looking like normal ruins for other factions until its too damn late. | ||
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Yurie
11841 Posts
On August 20 2017 15:32 B.I.G. wrote: Im having a lot of fun with the Norsca campaign. Had some epic battles to bring Throgg to heel. Also found out that the leader of Kislev Boris something is a major fucking asshole. One of his generals ambushed Throgg while he was nearby and were about to 2v1 stomp me, except that his general charged us head on, got slaughtered, all while Boris was taking his sweet time getting in position and walking towards us (and getting slaughtered in turn). Saw some of the footage of Skaven and it seems they are adding more interesting mechanics / features like their cities looking like normal ruins for other factions until its too damn late. Skaven seems very interesting. Saw the TotalBiscuit video summary of his 30 first turns. Their core mechanic seems to be a need for food from battles and conquering cities. They can then turn that into instant upgrade for cities, extra units in battle and so on. Being able to teleport in a unit in battle really allows for another layer where you can tie up ranged or important units. Sadly not suitable to the style I prefer. My perfect battle has 0 deaths on my side (which almost never happens). From how TB phrased it you want to fire on your own units to kill the enemy ones since Skaven basic infantry are worth so much less. | ||
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B.I.G.
3251 Posts
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Endymion
United States3701 Posts
On August 20 2017 04:51 Sermokala wrote: Welcome to all of us when they annouced TW:WH back in the day. still a hard pill to swallow considering it's the second game and not just an expansion... the engine looks very similar between the two, i have no idea why they aren't just releasing the races at like $15 apiece instead of releasing a "whole new game." are there really enough structural differences to justify it when you just merge the first game into it anyways? lol | ||
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Godwrath
Spain10126 Posts
On August 20 2017 20:02 Endymion wrote: Erhm, yes.still a hard pill to swallow considering it's the second game and not just an expansion... the engine looks very similar between the two, i have no idea why they aren't just releasing the races at like $15 apiece instead of releasing a "whole new game." are there really enough structural differences to justify it when you just merge the first game into it anyways? lol | ||
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B.I.G.
3251 Posts
-If you don't think there are enough differences just buy vanilla and enjoy that. Really man I agree that stuff like pay to win and locking parts of the basegame are bullshit but I think most of us agree here that these particular developers create a lot of good content, and for the bigger additions, yes, they charge. They are not philanthropists out to create cool stuff and sell it at cost price, they are a company that needs make a profit to keep the money flowing so they can keep doing stuff like this. I'm all for not wasting money but I also think that if you, like me, enjoy quality content you should pay those that earned their buck in full. In a nutshell, don't be stingy with people who are doing a good job. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
Most Total War games I buy now I think of as a toy box that they are going to sell more toys for in the future. And if they keep the style of development that Total Warhammer has had, I don't have a problem paying them for it. | ||
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heishe
Germany2284 Posts
Most people are clearly fine with what they get so that price it is. If you don't like it, don't buy it, or do if you like it. And yes you will feel kind of ripped off because you're not sure if what you just got is worth what you just paid, and as a gamedev myself I can promise you that the devs/publishers will think their stuff is worth a lot more because of their hard work, but they never go above $60 for a base game because people aren't gonna pay for more. That's how it works. Someone once said that it's not a fair trade until both sides feel ripped off. The term 'worth' isn't that you decide on a price based on some god-given value of a product, the term worth is purely decided by finding the equilibrium between seller and buyer. There also isn't even an ethical angle to approach here. Games are pure luxury goods. | ||
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Arevall
Sweden1133 Posts
Hi Vlad, I'm looking at you. | ||
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Endymion
United States3701 Posts
On August 21 2017 18:03 heishe wrote: Discussion about prizing is nonsensical as always. It's essentially arbitrary and only based on what they think you will pay. Why do you even ask questions like "Why can't they do [x] or [y]"? Isn't the answer trivial? This is a rhetorical question, I know the answer. You're not looking for a discussion on ethics, you're trying to justify the bad feeling of not having enough money to buy something you want. An essential part of growing up is learning how to deal with it! Most people are clearly fine with what they get so that price it is. If you don't like it, don't buy it, or do if you like it. And yes you will feel kind of ripped off because you're not sure if what you just got is worth what you just paid, and as a gamedev myself I can promise you that the devs/publishers will think their stuff is worth a lot more because of their hard work, but they never go above $60 for a base game because people aren't gonna pay for more. That's how it works. Someone once said that it's not a fair trade until both sides feel ripped off. The term 'worth' isn't that you decide on a price based on some god-given value of a product, the term worth is purely decided by finding the equilibrium between seller and buyer. There also isn't even an ethical angle to approach here. Games are pure luxury goods. it's not nonsensical to me when it decides if i'm going to end up pulling the trigger on the game or not.. i wasn't posting asking for a discussion of ethics, i posted asking about what additional value the second game had over the first one (because i didn't initially see many if any of the engine/structural changes, which is where i derive most of the value of a new game from [as opposed to just new race dlc]). | ||
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Godwrath
Spain10126 Posts
to add up to the current roster (60/4 = 15, i don't know why exactly you chose that number). You can't just put the fourth races in the old world campaign, since they are outsiders who rarely show up except to protect some ancient ruins/artifact whatever, or to raid, with the exception being the skavens (but they are the most common enemy to lizardmen, so you catch the drift). Then you need a new campaign map, which to add the four races, it goes massive in scope, bigger or equally big than the old world. I think you should start to see how problematic it would be to do it right away. Hell, the old world is pretty much Europe, and some north Africa. We are talking about atlantis plus the whole America plus most africa here If you add those races, and make the combined world map, you will need to do a lot of balance and tweaking around the old races while also simplifying the game. And since there is going to be a 3rd game, you know you will have to do this a third time. Instead, they chose to do a new campaign map to explore, with the vortex being the central theme rather than chaos invasion. I am sure there are graphic improvements, and plenty of mechanical and structural changes to justify to testing and developing of the game. Total warhammer wasn't a perfect games, and there are a lot of rough edges to polish. But if you subjectively still think it does not justify a 60€ pricetag, then you can perfectly get it on sale pretty easily a few months later. You don't need the game at release. And i don't know how you can put more value on engine/structural changes on a game like total war, replayability is mostly in the number of races and start points. There is where you get the real value timewise. If most of your value on the game is on something different, you are probably not going to sink enough hours to justify the pricetag regardless of how much better the game engine gets. If by structural you mean what i think you mean, a whole new campaign world should suffice imo. | ||
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FeyFey
Germany10114 Posts
So pretty happy that they got enough support to go with their original plan, despite this project probably eating lots of money. Will support them this time around, even if this new map will just be good for stranded dwarfs rp for me. But only invested 18 euro so far into Warhammer, sooo want to give them some support too. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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andrewlt
United States7702 Posts
1. Bretonnia attacked Marienburg very early in my game. I blitzed Reikland and they were already besieging it before I was done. I ended up conquering Middenland and Nordland instead and the smaller Wasteland province after Marienburg declared war on me. None of the Bretonnian factions would trade with me until after the chaos invasion. I eventually got deals with all of them but my trade income plummeted after they confederated one by one. Two of the Bretonnian factions couldn't even beat Mousillion (?) two on one. They aren't at war anymore because Bretonnia isn't at war with Mousy. 2. The Northern tribes seem to be way more annoying in my game, especially after the turn 85 chaos invasion. They sacked Marienburg and were threatening my main cities. Luckily, I was building up a new army in my capital around the time. I had to stop recruiting and rush them to Carroburg and barely won with the garrison helping. Bretonnia was too busy besieging a dwarven enemy with all 3 of their stacks to bother defending a very rich tier 5 city. The Norscans were even nice enough to besiege for around 3 turns before assaulting the city. I had to deal with every Norscan raid because Bretonnia was too incompetent to. Before the chaos invasion, while I was building up my infrastructure, I even had two armies basically raze all their coastline cities. They rebuilt them ridiculously fast. Or another faction took over and became my new pain in the ass. 3. Kislev just refused to trade with me all game then eventually got destroyed by the northern tribes + Templehof. They had 8-10 settlements at the height of their power but were dead by the time chaos arrived. I couldn't get non-aggression pacts or anything else out of them. 4. The main dwarf faction agreed to trade with me early game but our trade route got cut off after only a few turns. They haven't restored it yet. The minor dwarf factions only traded with me after the chaos invasion. They kept offering alliances which I agreed to because I thought refusing might put my trading income at the risk of being cancelled. They've been useless allies so far. One dragged me into a war with the wood elves. I haven't fought the elves yet but those dwarves are getting their shit pushed in. Another one is getting their ass kicked by respawning beastmen. I had to reload a couple of turns and rush an army back to protect Wissenland from being razed to the ground by the beastmen. The main dwarf faction still hasn't reconnected a trading route to me. 5. I may have made a mistake by confederating Ostland. But they were conquering the other minor empire factions while getting their northern settlements razed by the northern tribes. And that was before Kislev got obliterated too. 6. Income is really a pain. I have 6 armies now in the late game but 3 of them are pretty weak. I think my 2 main armies require 5k each on upkeep and that's without the additional lord penalty factored in. It was difficult to get any trade going. Estalia, Tilea and the other southern factions refuse to trade. Bretonnia and the minor dwarf factions only said yes after the chaos invasion. I kept my rating at steadfast for most of the game too. Only times it dipped below were because some ally dragged me into a war. 7. Defending my empire is really difficult. I feel at the mercy of AI raiding party RNG. I can only afford 6 armies and can't be everywhere at once while simultaneously trying to actually complete campaign objectives. I can only spare 2 out of the 6 to conquer Sylvania and fight chaos and finish reconquering the eastern parts of the empire. And even then, it requires luck and save scumming for my armies to be in position to defend against raiding parties. 8. The supposed buffer states that the empire relies on have been very useless thus far. I don't know if the Norsca, Beastmen and Wood Elves DLC have made those AI factions more powerful. My southern flank is exposed because I can't rely on the dwarves against the beastmen. The western flank is exposed to the northern tribes and Bretonnia is completely useless at fighting them. Northeast is exposed because Kislev was a total pushover to the northern tribes as well. I have to defend every border of my empire because my allies or even neutral neighbors are all losing their battles against raiders and enemy factions. I am on turn 110-120, btw. | ||
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