On June 19 2016 21:07 Zealos wrote: Keeping it challenging towards the end is so difficult in games like this though, the campaign ai would have to be far more advanced than it is at the moment.
Honestly I think it's doable with some version of Eu's coalition system (which is imperfect in execution but brilliant in concept.) Basically, as you approach snowball status, your enemies start to gang up on you far more aggressively.
On June 19 2016 21:07 Zealos wrote: Keeping it challenging towards the end is so difficult in games like this though, the campaign ai would have to be far more advanced than it is at the moment.
Honestly I think it's doable with some version of Eu's coalition system (which is imperfect in execution but brilliant in concept.) Basically, as you approach snowball status, your enemies start to gang up on you far more aggressively.
That might be a problem for Vampires and Empire but as Dwarfs you should be sitting protected from almost all sides by mountains/the map edge and if the other factions focus you hard Chaos will just steamroll them dead.
Imo the issue is that the AI simply does not tech up and build high tech armies at the right pace so you end up auto-resolving tier 4 against tier 1 armies.
On June 19 2016 21:07 Zealos wrote: Keeping it challenging towards the end is so difficult in games like this though, the campaign ai would have to be far more advanced than it is at the moment.
Honestly I think it's doable with some version of Eu's coalition system (which is imperfect in execution but brilliant in concept.) Basically, as you approach snowball status, your enemies start to gang up on you far more aggressively.
That might be a problem for Vampires and Empire but as Dwarfs you should be sitting protected from almost all sides by mountains/the map edge and if the other factions focus you hard Chaos will just steamroll them dead.
Imo the issue is that the AI simply does not tech up and build high tech armies at the right pace so you end up auto-resolving tier 4 against tier 1 armies.
Pretty much this. Also, I'd love to see a couple of "cheese" armies being spawned now and then to provide some challenge. Similar to what I've experienced (not very pleasant) in the multiplayer when I was playing Bretonnia vs Empire and my enemy had pegasus general and 5 steam tanks as his entire army (hint: Bretonnia has nothing to deal with steam tanks and steam tanks are probably the most OP unit in the game overall).
I find it a little strange that Dwarfs have the best artillery but most of it is line of sight. It's fine for when you are fighting in the badlands, but it becomes less useful when you have 20 Battle of Praags.
On June 19 2016 21:07 Zealos wrote: Keeping it challenging towards the end is so difficult in games like this though, the campaign ai would have to be far more advanced than it is at the moment.
Honestly I think it's doable with some version of Eu's coalition system (which is imperfect in execution but brilliant in concept.) Basically, as you approach snowball status, your enemies start to gang up on you far more aggressively.
That might be a problem for Vampires and Empire but as Dwarfs you should be sitting protected from almost all sides by mountains/the map edge and if the other factions focus you hard Chaos will just steamroll them dead.
Imo the issue is that the AI simply does not tech up and build high tech armies at the right pace so you end up auto-resolving tier 4 against tier 1 armies.
My main issue is that auto resolve is massively stronger then fighting the battle yourself in a lot of spots.
There are quite a few times where fighting the battle myself, just due to army compositions, will always result in a loss, but pressing a button gives me a decisive victory.
I almost feel like the game needs more depth in how auto resolve decides the winner, because it doesn't seem to reflect the actual army strengths very well.
Yeah I was getting a stupid autoresolve thing where I had an undefended town except for a Lord and a Hero and a decent sized greenskin army attacked twice and i autoresolved to kill basically all of them.
On June 20 2016 17:00 Yoav wrote: Yeah I was getting a stupid autoresolve thing where I had an undefended town except for a Lord and a Hero and a decent sized greenskin army attacked twice and i autoresolved to kill basically all of them.
Well to be fair I've had quite a couple of fights where just my high level faction leader alone destroyed an army of several hundred units + some low level lord all by himself.
On June 20 2016 17:00 Yoav wrote: Yeah I was getting a stupid autoresolve thing where I had an undefended town except for a Lord and a Hero and a decent sized greenskin army attacked twice and i autoresolved to kill basically all of them.
Well to be fair I've had quite a couple of fights where just my high level faction leader alone destroyed an army of several hundred units + some low level lord all by himself.
yeah I would like to see this changed. I mean the worst offender is Ironhide, he just ruins hundreds at a time when hes high level.
There are already enough crazy anti-infantry units, I would prefer if lords were more utility based rather than just charge in an wreck show kind of units.
To be fair it's kind of true to tabletop. I've seen Archaon, Tyrion, Malekith and friends absolutely murdering entire regiments of elite units charging them all by themselves.
I might buy this game.. But some things that bothers me, is it any kind of micro in this game? Once you send your armee to attack, what do you do especially?
In multiplayer, how does the opening look like? Is there an economy or anything like it you so can focus other things than killing the enemy units.
Is there any kind of individual micro in this game? Like in sc2, move the stalker back.
You use your lord's abilities and that's about it for micro. The game is more about long term planning and management than micro or macro; it basically has no mechanical requirements so it's very, very different from SC2. It's still a very fun strategy game, but Total War games are very different from competitive 1v1 RTS.
On June 21 2016 02:57 Foxxan wrote: I might buy this game.. But some things that bothers me, is it any kind of micro in this game? Once you send your armee to attack, what do you do especially?
In multiplayer, how does the opening look like? Is there an economy or anything like it you so can focus other things than killing the enemy units.
Is there any kind of individual micro in this game? Like in sc2, move the stalker back.
The micro is controlling your positioning of your regiments. Using units to their strength in the right conditions to maximize effectiveness.
When you have 20+ units on the field, things get pretty hectic and shit goes way wrong if you arent paying attention and controlling them.
Other than that, just the lords/heros have specific abilities.
On June 21 2016 03:11 Teoita wrote: You use your lord's abilities and that's about it for micro. The game is more about long term planning and management than micro or macro; it basically has no mechanical requirements so it's very, very different from SC2. It's still a very fun strategy game, but Total War games are very different from competitive 1v1 RTS.
Ah ok. Still sounds like it could be fun but i will pass.
On June 21 2016 02:57 Foxxan wrote: I might buy this game.. But some things that bothers me, is it any kind of micro in this game? Once you send your armee to attack, what do you do especially?
In multiplayer, how does the opening look like? Is there an economy or anything like it you so can focus other things than killing the enemy units.
Is there any kind of individual micro in this game? Like in sc2, move the stalker back.
To answer your question in a bit more detail I'll say that there's quite a lot micro in this game but not a lot of individual micro. You're controlling entire units and few powerful solo monsters/characters in a battle (kind of like in CoH/DoW series in this regard). The thing is that there are a ton of tiny contributing factors which together can make a difference between a win and a loss in an engagement - relative stats, mass and speed of clashing units, attack angle, supporting charges, uphill or downhill, exhaustion, weapon and armour type, morale etc. etc. Thus even if there isn't as much clicking there's still plenty of maneuvering before your front lines meet. Then you have to manage skirmishers (automatic skirmish mode blows), protect yourself from and deliver wrap-around back charges, cycle charging cavalry units (charge in, fight for a brief moment, back out, repeat), select right targets for ranged units etc. Even though taken individually this isn't a lot, it really can become quite taxing when you have to monitor and manage 20 of your units spread over a large area at the same time. It is especially hard when playing Greenskins or Vampire Counts - Greenskins have poor overall morale so unfavorable fights are going to make them rout faster, often starting a chain of routs; VC on the other hand never rout but when they're in an unfavorable position they start to crumble so technically you can kill super dangerous stuff from them with things that normally couldn't touch them just by smart positioning (attack from the sides and back, shoot into them etc.).
There's no economy in multiplayer. There are "builds" though, since you're getting a limited amount of resources and have to use them to purchase your army before each battle. Making the most use out of those resources is a skill in itself.
Here's a sample of multiplayer battle with commentary if you want to see how it looks like:
Typically ranged units are particularly strong in flanking maneuvers, just like in Rome 2. They just start murdering an entire unit if it is engaged with one of your melee and you move the ranged unit to its rear or side. The problem with these type of maneuvers that really gets me worked up every time is that moving from the back of your front line to the side gets your ranged unit in contact with the melees from the enemy, and the warscape engine forces your ranged unit to get into melee and basically glues it into a fight.
This makes diagonal movement in this game almost impossible, you first have to move the unit to the left until its formation wont touch the enemy, then behind the enemy.
The next issue is that flanking maneuvers from melee units aren't as strong as any unit that isn't a hero or gigantic is forced into 1 v 1. These guys don't backstab, they just get stat advantage when attacking from a better angle. This is also the reason why ranged units do more damage when used for flanking. They DO backstab and don't try to 1 v 1 every time.
Another issue is that the game doesn't handle surrounding well. In SC2 zerglings do that really well, it feels like you're controlling water. If you attack in a column 4 men wide and hit the enemy formation with these 4 men in the front, all you will effectively have fighting are 4 men cause the ones in the back just wait for their turn lol (and get exhausted nevertheless).
On June 21 2016 09:45 Godwrath wrote: In the ranged unit (and for most stuff also), you can use shift + click waypoints to position them correctly. I don't see the issue.
The issue is they could implement them just automatically trying to avoid melee when in skirmish mode and moving somewhere so I can move them diagonally without them running into the frontline. Have part of the block move away (the one who would run into enemies) and then to the issued position while the other part keeps running to the issued position.
On June 21 2016 10:35 Jerubaal wrote: Yeah, I hate how if one melee unit gets into melee with a ranged unit, they all stop firing.
Well, it kind of makes sense from the rational point of view. You probably wouldn't just be shooting distant stuff yourself when members of your unit are slaughtered just a few meters away...
On June 21 2016 09:45 Godwrath wrote: In the ranged unit (and for most stuff also), you can use shift + click waypoints to position them correctly. I don't see the issue.
The issue is they could implement them just automatically trying to avoid melee when in skirmish mode and moving somewhere so I can move them diagonally without them running into the frontline. Have part of the block move away (the one who would run into enemies) and then to the issued position while the other part keeps running to the issued position.
You can always toggle the skirmish mode for them and they'll automatically avoid combat and charges. Personally I've learned to leave it off since you have no control over it and your units just get chased down forever and don't take part in the battle this way. It isn't such a big problem if you only bring a couple of ranged units but with armies like Bretonnia or Dwarves where you bring 4+ of them it quickly becomes a concern since they're such a big part of your force.
EPT
