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On November 30 2018 05:21 Latham wrote:
A rat pope? To nerf the already worst campaign faction for the AI? They already get annihilated so quickly because everybody hates the skaven, even other skaven as someone said a few pages back.
I'd dig it personally because it would be funny as hell, but you'd have to do something for the skaven on the campaign/auto-resolve front so they wouldn't all be auto-eliminated by turn 100.
Actually, rat pope would make sense; the Grey Seers command and the Skaven obey. Like every so often the Grey Seers forcibly make all the Skaven form defensive/aggressive alliances to attack [INSERT FACTION].
That's literally how it works in the fluff. The Skaven only work togther when the Grey Seers command it.
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On November 30 2018 19:19 iamthedave wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2018 05:21 Latham wrote:
A rat pope? To nerf the already worst campaign faction for the AI? They already get annihilated so quickly because everybody hates the skaven, even other skaven as someone said a few pages back.
I'd dig it personally because it would be funny as hell, but you'd have to do something for the skaven on the campaign/auto-resolve front so they wouldn't all be auto-eliminated by turn 100. Actually, rat pope would make sense; the Grey Seers command and the Skaven obey. Like every so often the Grey Seers forcibly make all the Skaven form defensive/aggressive alliances to attack [INSERT FACTION]. That's literally how it works in the fluff. The Skaven only work togther when the Grey Seers command it.
Not really. It's actually the Council of Thirteen that rules over all Skaven and it's not comprised entirely of Grey Seers...
http://whfb.lexicanum.com/wiki/Council_of_Thirteen
https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Council_of_Thirteen
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On November 30 2018 21:19 Manit0u wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2018 19:19 iamthedave wrote:On November 30 2018 05:21 Latham wrote:
A rat pope? To nerf the already worst campaign faction for the AI? They already get annihilated so quickly because everybody hates the skaven, even other skaven as someone said a few pages back.
I'd dig it personally because it would be funny as hell, but you'd have to do something for the skaven on the campaign/auto-resolve front so they wouldn't all be auto-eliminated by turn 100. Actually, rat pope would make sense; the Grey Seers command and the Skaven obey. Like every so often the Grey Seers forcibly make all the Skaven form defensive/aggressive alliances to attack [INSERT FACTION]. That's literally how it works in the fluff. The Skaven only work togther when the Grey Seers command it. Not really. It's actually the Council of Thirteen that rules over all Skaven and it's not comprised entirely of Grey Seers... http://whfb.lexicanum.com/wiki/Council_of_Thirteenhttps://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Council_of_Thirteen The Council serves the Horned Rat and the Grey Seers are his voice.
In that capacity they stand above the Council, tho in normal situations they are merely a part of it.
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What he said. Either way, mechanically it would both make sense and alleviate some of the crippling diplomacy problems Skaven have, since that is literally how Skaven get stuff done in the fluff. Hell, it was the GHR kicking ass and putting Thanquol in charge that essentially caused the end times because ALL Skaven everywhere started fucking up everything they could get their grubby paws on (which is almost everything, everywhere).
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Someone on reddit posted that the new pirate cove system for Vampirates could fit neatly into the Skaven faction as a representation of the under-empire. Modding community said it's too bad CA locked the feature and they can't reuse it and mod it in for Skaven.
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On November 30 2018 09:59 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2018 07:15 Jerubaal wrote:
Yeah, but what if your military allies start turning against each other and force you to choose? Granted it was a much bigger deal in WHI. They won’t turn on each other when they are perpetually warring together against common enemies.
Ok, so this was a very WHI and Dawi-centric problem. During the Chaos invasion, everyone gets together and starts singing Kumbaya and I entered into alliances with all of the human factions. Then, after Chaos was destroyed, they started to turn on each other, forcing me to choose. They would then incur Grudges, usually with agents. Of course, agents were fucking terrible, so eliminating the faction entirely was usually the easiest option. I think I ended up annihilating Border Princes and Brettonia because of this. Now, I probably should have just broken my alliances and stayed neutral, but I don't think you can diplomacy out of a Grudge once it's made.
I'd also like to bring up again what a terrible idea The End Times was. WH was perfectly fine putzing about for eternity. It's WH40k that needs some freaking narrative progression.
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On December 01 2018 00:40 Jerubaal wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2018 09:59 xDaunt wrote:On November 30 2018 07:15 Jerubaal wrote:
Yeah, but what if your military allies start turning against each other and force you to choose? Granted it was a much bigger deal in WHI. They won’t turn on each other when they are perpetually warring together against common enemies. Ok, so this was a very WHI and Dawi-centric problem. During the Chaos invasion, everyone gets together and starts singing Kumbaya and I entered into alliances with all of the human factions. Then, after Chaos was destroyed, they started to turn on each other, forcing me to choose. They would then incur Grudges, usually with agents. Of course, agents were fucking terrible, so eliminating the faction entirely was usually the easiest option. I think I ended up annihilating Border Princes and Brettonia because of this. Now, I probably should have just broken my alliances and stayed neutral, but I don't think you can diplomacy out of a Grudge once it's made. I'd also like to bring up again what a terrible idea The End Times was. WH was perfectly fine putzing about for eternity. It's WH40k that needs some freaking narrative progression.
Yeah, End Times was a horrible idea. But apparently WH sold terribly so they blew it up to put magical marines in it. Age of Sigmar is apparently selling really really well in comparison.
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On December 01 2018 00:40 Jerubaal wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2018 09:59 xDaunt wrote:On November 30 2018 07:15 Jerubaal wrote:
Yeah, but what if your military allies start turning against each other and force you to choose? Granted it was a much bigger deal in WHI. They won’t turn on each other when they are perpetually warring together against common enemies. Ok, so this was a very WHI and Dawi-centric problem. During the Chaos invasion, everyone gets together and starts singing Kumbaya and I entered into alliances with all of the human factions. Then, after Chaos was destroyed, they started to turn on each other, forcing me to choose. They would then incur Grudges, usually with agents. Of course, agents were fucking terrible, so eliminating the faction entirely was usually the easiest option. I think I ended up annihilating Border Princes and Brettonia because of this. Now, I probably should have just broken my alliances and stayed neutral, but I don't think you can diplomacy out of a Grudge once it's made. I'd also like to bring up again what a terrible idea The End Times was. WH was perfectly fine putzing about for eternity. It's WH40k that needs some freaking narrative progression.
Dwarves are pretty dispensable as allies in WH2 now. It's easy to create a winning coalition without them. But yes, I agree that they can be a pain in the ass.
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On December 01 2018 02:12 iamthedave wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2018 00:40 Jerubaal wrote:On November 30 2018 09:59 xDaunt wrote:On November 30 2018 07:15 Jerubaal wrote:
Yeah, but what if your military allies start turning against each other and force you to choose? Granted it was a much bigger deal in WHI. They won’t turn on each other when they are perpetually warring together against common enemies. Ok, so this was a very WHI and Dawi-centric problem. During the Chaos invasion, everyone gets together and starts singing Kumbaya and I entered into alliances with all of the human factions. Then, after Chaos was destroyed, they started to turn on each other, forcing me to choose. They would then incur Grudges, usually with agents. Of course, agents were fucking terrible, so eliminating the faction entirely was usually the easiest option. I think I ended up annihilating Border Princes and Brettonia because of this. Now, I probably should have just broken my alliances and stayed neutral, but I don't think you can diplomacy out of a Grudge once it's made. I'd also like to bring up again what a terrible idea The End Times was. WH was perfectly fine putzing about for eternity. It's WH40k that needs some freaking narrative progression. Yeah, End Times was a horrible idea. But apparently WH sold terribly so they blew it up to put magical marines in it. Age of Sigmar is apparently selling really really well in comparison.
End times wasn't really a bad idea itself but its execution was pretty bad. The low fantasy shtick was getting pretty old and the new high fantasy has a lot more to draw on for units.trying to repeat their success with 40k's rolls streamlining. went off really bad.
The rules got really really bad for end times and first edition of age of sigmar but second edition age of sigmar rule set got a lot better. At least the games I watch on miniwargaming are a lot better in second edition then first.
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On December 01 2018 05:38 Sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2018 02:12 iamthedave wrote:On December 01 2018 00:40 Jerubaal wrote:On November 30 2018 09:59 xDaunt wrote:On November 30 2018 07:15 Jerubaal wrote:
Yeah, but what if your military allies start turning against each other and force you to choose? Granted it was a much bigger deal in WHI. They won’t turn on each other when they are perpetually warring together against common enemies. Ok, so this was a very WHI and Dawi-centric problem. During the Chaos invasion, everyone gets together and starts singing Kumbaya and I entered into alliances with all of the human factions. Then, after Chaos was destroyed, they started to turn on each other, forcing me to choose. They would then incur Grudges, usually with agents. Of course, agents were fucking terrible, so eliminating the faction entirely was usually the easiest option. I think I ended up annihilating Border Princes and Brettonia because of this. Now, I probably should have just broken my alliances and stayed neutral, but I don't think you can diplomacy out of a Grudge once it's made. I'd also like to bring up again what a terrible idea The End Times was. WH was perfectly fine putzing about for eternity. It's WH40k that needs some freaking narrative progression. Yeah, End Times was a horrible idea. But apparently WH sold terribly so they blew it up to put magical marines in it. Age of Sigmar is apparently selling really really well in comparison. End times wasn't really a bad idea itself but its execution was pretty bad. The low fantasy shtick was getting pretty old and the new high fantasy has a lot more to draw on for units.trying to repeat their success with 40k's rolls streamlining. went off really bad. The rules got really really bad for end times and first edition of age of sigmar but second edition age of sigmar rule set got a lot better. At least the games I watch on miniwargaming are a lot better in second edition then first.
If the low fantasy schtick was getting old than 40k grim dark is getting archaeological. Fantasy's as immortal as sci-fi, there's just shit writing and good writing. GW is (bizarrely) terrified of advancing the plot in any way that isn't the literal apocalypse, despite the fact everytime they actually do the fans are generally really pleased .
The response to the flurry of plot in 40K was - mostly - rapturous. The End Times had people at least interesting up until it was 'rocks fall, everyone dies'.
The only people who let it stagnate were GW.
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Honestly, I thought the WH figurines looked dumb and goofy. I'm usually a fantasy > sci-fi guy, but WH did not capture me at all until TW, even though WH40k is great.
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I wonder if GW could have a second life by selling custom 3D printers and designs for models.
It really makes you wonder what the purpose of a company is. If the purpose is to provide for the families of the founders, well, that has been accomplished long ago. But then you take on many workers and designers and writers and they have families that need to be provided for. And the company keeps growing and growing with more mouths to feed. If that isn't evidence for The Invisible Hand, I don't know what is.
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On December 03 2018 09:37 Jerubaal wrote:
I wonder if GW could have a second life by selling custom 3D printers and designs for models.
It really makes you wonder what the purpose of a company is. If the purpose is to provide for the families of the founders, well, that has been accomplished long ago. But then you take on many workers and designers and writers and they have families that need to be provided for. And the company keeps growing and growing with more mouths to feed. If that isn't evidence for The Invisible Hand, I don't know what is.
Games Workshop is astock market listed company so throw any dreamy ideas you had about "provide for the families of the founders" right out of the window (and even if it wasn't you propably still could have kept them outside). Also the invisible hand is a lie which has been numerously shown by reality. GW wants to make profit, thats pretty much all there is, which is ok. Ofc this is very simplified, but its way closer to reality than your take and hasn't borked the economy 1 or 2 times during your lifetime, depending on your age.
Regarding the selling of custom 3D printers, I dont think so. I dont even know if GW is in trouble, but in any case, 3D printers are still too expensive for that to be a viable market. Custom designs for models however sounds like something that could work. They could propably license them out to the different companies that offer printing 3D models for you and stuff like that, basically focussing on designing models while outsourcing production and shipping. However I am not sure if GW can afford to give up its shops since they propably make good money with the painting accecories they sell. Its hard to say...
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On December 03 2018 17:45 waffelz wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2018 09:37 Jerubaal wrote:
I wonder if GW could have a second life by selling custom 3D printers and designs for models.
It really makes you wonder what the purpose of a company is. If the purpose is to provide for the families of the founders, well, that has been accomplished long ago. But then you take on many workers and designers and writers and they have families that need to be provided for. And the company keeps growing and growing with more mouths to feed. If that isn't evidence for The Invisible Hand, I don't know what is. Games Workshop is astock market listed company so throw any dreamy ideas you had about "provide for the families of the founders" right out of the window (and even if it wasn't you propably still could have kept them outside). Also the invisible hand is a lie which has been numerously shown by reality. GW wants to make profit, thats pretty much all there is, which is ok. Ofc this is very simplified, but its way closer to reality than your take and hasn't borked the economy 1 or 2 times during your lifetime, depending on your age. Regarding the selling of custom 3D printers, I dont think so. I dont even know if GW is in trouble, but in any case, 3D printers are still too expensive for that to be a viable market. Custom designs for models however sounds like something that could work. They could propably license them out to the different companies that offer printing 3D models for you and stuff like that, basically focussing on designing models while outsourcing production and shipping. However I am not sure if GW can afford to give up its shops since they propably make good money with the painting accecories they sell. Its hard to say...
Nah, GW's doing alright now. They went through a tough patch but things are on the up at the minute.
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On December 01 2018 09:16 iamthedave wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2018 05:38 Sermokala wrote:On December 01 2018 02:12 iamthedave wrote:On December 01 2018 00:40 Jerubaal wrote:On November 30 2018 09:59 xDaunt wrote:On November 30 2018 07:15 Jerubaal wrote:
Yeah, but what if your military allies start turning against each other and force you to choose? Granted it was a much bigger deal in WHI. They won’t turn on each other when they are perpetually warring together against common enemies. Ok, so this was a very WHI and Dawi-centric problem. During the Chaos invasion, everyone gets together and starts singing Kumbaya and I entered into alliances with all of the human factions. Then, after Chaos was destroyed, they started to turn on each other, forcing me to choose. They would then incur Grudges, usually with agents. Of course, agents were fucking terrible, so eliminating the faction entirely was usually the easiest option. I think I ended up annihilating Border Princes and Brettonia because of this. Now, I probably should have just broken my alliances and stayed neutral, but I don't think you can diplomacy out of a Grudge once it's made. I'd also like to bring up again what a terrible idea The End Times was. WH was perfectly fine putzing about for eternity. It's WH40k that needs some freaking narrative progression. Yeah, End Times was a horrible idea. But apparently WH sold terribly so they blew it up to put magical marines in it. Age of Sigmar is apparently selling really really well in comparison. End times wasn't really a bad idea itself but its execution was pretty bad. The low fantasy shtick was getting pretty old and the new high fantasy has a lot more to draw on for units.trying to repeat their success with 40k's rolls streamlining. went off really bad. The rules got really really bad for end times and first edition of age of sigmar but second edition age of sigmar rule set got a lot better. At least the games I watch on miniwargaming are a lot better in second edition then first. If the low fantasy schtick was getting old than 40k grim dark is getting archaeological. Fantasy's as immortal as sci-fi, there's just shit writing and good writing. GW is (bizarrely) terrified of advancing the plot in any way that isn't the literal apocalypse, despite the fact everytime they actually do the fans are generally really pleased . The response to the flurry of plot in 40K was - mostly - rapturous. The End Times had people at least interesting up until it was 'rocks fall, everyone dies'. The only people who let it stagnate were GW. GW is hesitant to advance the plot becuase it is a setting for a tabletop game. Like all multiplayer games, you don't want to split up your base, so what they did was incrementally ramp up an end time/apocalypse and then release a new version when it became untenable. Until the end time happened because GW threw a hissy fit over trademarks. And now no one plays warhammer fantasy because it's well, unsupported.
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On December 03 2018 21:15 Dangermousecatdog wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2018 09:16 iamthedave wrote:On December 01 2018 05:38 Sermokala wrote:On December 01 2018 02:12 iamthedave wrote:On December 01 2018 00:40 Jerubaal wrote:On November 30 2018 09:59 xDaunt wrote:On November 30 2018 07:15 Jerubaal wrote:
Yeah, but what if your military allies start turning against each other and force you to choose? Granted it was a much bigger deal in WHI. They won’t turn on each other when they are perpetually warring together against common enemies. Ok, so this was a very WHI and Dawi-centric problem. During the Chaos invasion, everyone gets together and starts singing Kumbaya and I entered into alliances with all of the human factions. Then, after Chaos was destroyed, they started to turn on each other, forcing me to choose. They would then incur Grudges, usually with agents. Of course, agents were fucking terrible, so eliminating the faction entirely was usually the easiest option. I think I ended up annihilating Border Princes and Brettonia because of this. Now, I probably should have just broken my alliances and stayed neutral, but I don't think you can diplomacy out of a Grudge once it's made. I'd also like to bring up again what a terrible idea The End Times was. WH was perfectly fine putzing about for eternity. It's WH40k that needs some freaking narrative progression. Yeah, End Times was a horrible idea. But apparently WH sold terribly so they blew it up to put magical marines in it. Age of Sigmar is apparently selling really really well in comparison. End times wasn't really a bad idea itself but its execution was pretty bad. The low fantasy shtick was getting pretty old and the new high fantasy has a lot more to draw on for units.trying to repeat their success with 40k's rolls streamlining. went off really bad. The rules got really really bad for end times and first edition of age of sigmar but second edition age of sigmar rule set got a lot better. At least the games I watch on miniwargaming are a lot better in second edition then first. If the low fantasy schtick was getting old than 40k grim dark is getting archaeological. Fantasy's as immortal as sci-fi, there's just shit writing and good writing. GW is (bizarrely) terrified of advancing the plot in any way that isn't the literal apocalypse, despite the fact everytime they actually do the fans are generally really pleased . The response to the flurry of plot in 40K was - mostly - rapturous. The End Times had people at least interesting up until it was 'rocks fall, everyone dies'. The only people who let it stagnate were GW. GW is hesitant to advance the plot becuase it is a setting for a tabletop game. Like all multiplayer games, you don't want to split up your base, so what they did was incrementally ramp up an end time/apocalypse and then release a new version when it became untenable. Until the end time happened because GW threw a hissy fit over trademarks. And now no one plays warhammer fantasy because it's well, unsupported.
Except, as mentioned, the players almost invariably liked it when the plot was actually advanced. You can do an awful lot with a race without extreminating them, and so long as you don't exterminate a race but make the plot more about the push and pull of civilisations, with lore 'highs' and 'lows' there's zero reason whatsoever for stasis.
In addition, you can then make those massive yearly tournaments actually mean something, which players would again really love.
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On December 03 2018 17:45 waffelz wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2018 09:37 Jerubaal wrote:
I wonder if GW could have a second life by selling custom 3D printers and designs for models.
It really makes you wonder what the purpose of a company is. If the purpose is to provide for the families of the founders, well, that has been accomplished long ago. But then you take on many workers and designers and writers and they have families that need to be provided for. And the company keeps growing and growing with more mouths to feed. If that isn't evidence for The Invisible Hand, I don't know what is. Games Workshop is astock market listed company so throw any dreamy ideas you had about "provide for the families of the founders" right out of the window (and even if it wasn't you propably still could have kept them outside). Also the invisible hand is a lie which has been numerously shown by reality. GW wants to make profit, thats pretty much all there is, which is ok. Ofc this is very simplified, but its way closer to reality than your take and hasn't borked the economy 1 or 2 times during your lifetime, depending on your age. Regarding the selling of custom 3D printers, I dont think so. I dont even know if GW is in trouble, but in any case, 3D printers are still too expensive for that to be a viable market. Custom designs for models however sounds like something that could work. They could propably license them out to the different companies that offer printing 3D models for you and stuff like that, basically focussing on designing models while outsourcing production and shipping. However I am not sure if GW can afford to give up its shops since they propably make good money with the painting accecories they sell. Its hard to say...
I am increasingly convinced that the purpose of many people in discourse is to simply persuade the other person that arguing with them is simply not worth the bother.
I brought up a thought about the creative and personal goal of a company and the lifecycle of an enterprise and you butted in with some facile ideology.
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On December 04 2018 07:22 Jerubaal wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2018 17:45 waffelz wrote:On December 03 2018 09:37 Jerubaal wrote:
I wonder if GW could have a second life by selling custom 3D printers and designs for models.
It really makes you wonder what the purpose of a company is. If the purpose is to provide for the families of the founders, well, that has been accomplished long ago. But then you take on many workers and designers and writers and they have families that need to be provided for. And the company keeps growing and growing with more mouths to feed. If that isn't evidence for The Invisible Hand, I don't know what is. Games Workshop is astock market listed company so throw any dreamy ideas you had about "provide for the families of the founders" right out of the window (and even if it wasn't you propably still could have kept them outside). Also the invisible hand is a lie which has been numerously shown by reality. GW wants to make profit, thats pretty much all there is, which is ok. Ofc this is very simplified, but its way closer to reality than your take and hasn't borked the economy 1 or 2 times during your lifetime, depending on your age. Regarding the selling of custom 3D printers, I dont think so. I dont even know if GW is in trouble, but in any case, 3D printers are still too expensive for that to be a viable market. Custom designs for models however sounds like something that could work. They could propably license them out to the different companies that offer printing 3D models for you and stuff like that, basically focussing on designing models while outsourcing production and shipping. However I am not sure if GW can afford to give up its shops since they propably make good money with the painting accecories they sell. Its hard to say...
EDIT scrap that: I am glad you came to see that inserting the ideology of the invisible hand into this was unnecessary. Have a nice day 
To rail this somewhat back on topic, at least part of the purpose of GW to me seems maintaining the Warhammer franchise and advancing its rules and plot(TM).
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For some reason my battle load times skyrocketed after Vampirates patch. Like 20-30 min battle loads.
Everything was fine before patch.. Now its barely playable...
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EPT![[image loading]](https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/920x950/60120709001_IronskullsBoyzENG02.jpg)
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![[image loading]](https://www.greebo-games.com/959-large_default/obsidian-dusk-team.jpg)
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/T8YrwRS.jpg)
