EPTGeneral Discussion - Page 64
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Please be advised: We will be closing this General thread in 24 hours. It will remain searchable. After that we will require new threads to discuss topics. Questions should go in the stickied Q&A thread, screenshots and PotG will go in the PotG sticky, QQ/Rage/Complaints should go in the QQ/Rage thread. If you want to talk about maps or strategies open a new thread. Any comments or concerns will be logged please forward them to ZeromuS. This new forum is still fluid so we will try this out. General TL rules will still apply to new threads. | ||
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ragz_gt
9172 Posts
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Mohdoo
United States15732 Posts
On November 04 2015 01:08 ragz_gt wrote: Blizzard's record on spectating is pretty poor. 3rd party did most of the work in SC2, and LOL @ Hearthstone spectating. While true, we have also seen a fair amount of Blizzard admitting that they shit the bed and that they really need to improve. They had that summit shit with all the progamers who kept insisting Blizzard's new esports perspective would be some kinda utopia. Dota's success is also of course a giant stain on Blizzard's record. They are shamed and know that they fucked up. I think it is impossible that Blizzard will be blind to what needs to be present in Overwatch. | ||
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FeyFey
Germany10114 Posts
People will be more interested in seeing their favorite Heroes. I mean if you watch a Tracer fpv you feel like being in a rollercoaster. I prefer the tea time with mister Dwarf and his Turret though. | ||
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MaestroSC
United States2073 Posts
Also people saying because there are different classes, and a lot of animated effects that the game is unwatchable or too confusing...is absolutely ridiculous. At the end of the day, one player is going to shoot another player, and whether its a bullet, or a ball of energy, or a soundwave, everyone can appreciate that. Also, what Overwatch has, is a lot of potential for Giant plays of epic proportions due to the Ultimates. Any/Everyone will be able to cheer/go nuts when they see a team chain together 2-3 ultimates to instant kill the enemy team. It doesnt take a genius to go "O Wow the giant dragon that guy shot at the other team killed them all!" It's just badass. ATM Even watching a stream of Seagull or a decent player, you can pretty much follow exactly what is going on in the match. As long as Blizzard puts in any sort of spectator mode that can control their own camera, as well as change to player viewers... its going to be a success. People saying that effects/graphics are complicated, or the fact that there are multiple heros is too complicated... are simply retarded. League of Legends, and Dota2 both have 20x the amount of heros, and are the most watched Esports currently (at least for major events). IDK it seems like 2GD is grasping at straws for why his game is better and should be more popular than this one. And also about Destiny's point..im glad it doesnt show KDA because ATM you can tell the difference between players who are playing to win, and players who only give a shit about their KDA. Sometimes you need to sacrifice yourself in order to push the objective forward, and having your KDA displayed after the match discourages people from playing the objective. I was mad at first that I couldnt share all my gold medals with my team after I played well, but wasnt on a highlight reel, but I got over it quickly, as its an objective based game and not just a deathmatch. Feel like most of the critiques so far are just uninformed opinions. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15732 Posts
On November 04 2015 02:16 MaestroSC wrote: Meh.. 2Gd is trying to develop the NEXT BIG THING in FPS Esports so he would be retarded if he came out and said "Man this is going to be the next big Esport in FPS category!" while he is dumping all of his time/money into a project that is aiming to take over the same market. I think this point deserves more attention. It's like asking the director of android what he thinks about the newest version of iOS. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22065 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/JIzEtV8.png) Stuff like that is unnecessary and certainly an annoyance for the competitive minded players. | ||
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Hider
Denmark9420 Posts
On November 04 2015 02:24 Mohdoo wrote: I think this point deserves more attention. It's like asking the director of android what he thinks about the newest version of iOS. No because its an ignorant statement that is likely a consequence of him (and you) not having watched the show. First of, if 2GD had an agenda, he would be critizing the playing experience and not the watching experience. Instead, he does the exact oppposite and frequently mentions how fun the game is. All he did was to make a suggestion to improve the viewing-experience of the game. Secondly, why is he praising the CS:GO viewability at the same time? That's also a competitor! Maybe.... just maybe he compared it to CS:GO because CS:GO actually is more watchable than OW: Maybe that is actually what he thinks, and maybe there are other people who think so too. You can check out the reddit thread for references: https://www.reddit.com/r/Overwatch/comments/3r7ef2/playlist_team_tf2_vs_blizz_team_competitive/ Thirdly, why is someone like Day9 even allowed to commentate blizzard games. For some reason he has been invited to cast HOTS and LOTV despite working on a competiting game. Applying the same logic, we should also expect his cast to be bias'ed and critical of the game so his own game appears better. OOOOORRRRR we could actually listen to what he says and discuss whether there is logic to it, instead of dismissing every type of criticism/feedback he provides beforehand.. Also people saying because there are different classes, and a lot of animated effects that the game is unwatchable or too confusing...is absolutely ridiculous. At the end of the day, one player is going to shoot another player, and whether its a bullet, or a ball of energy, or a soundwave, everyone can appreciate that. The question is this: If you follow the first-person perspective from one player in OW, can you then follow the "story" and notice all of the big plays that the other 11 teammembers could potentially perform? In CS:GO there are fewer players out on the map and you have time during rounds to watch "plays" and get extra hyped. I think small delays between action is generally a good thing. ATM Even watching a stream of Seagull or a decent player, you can pretty much follow exactly what is going on in the match That sentimen is not shared by most other people (see Reddit). | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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Hider
Denmark9420 Posts
On November 04 2015 02:49 Plansix wrote: There is nothing wrong with making people aware that 2GD isn't completely free of bias in this matter. I don't think it was a huge factor in his comments, but it doesn't hurt to know that he is making a competitor to Overwatch in the Twitch viewing space. Yeh I can agree with that. Knowing that there might be a potential conclict of interest is a good thing, but when you watch the show it doesn't appear at all that way. The way I perceived 2GDs overall feedback was that he really enjoyed the game but thought that it lacked something from an esport-perspective, which is inline with what alot of other people have said. | ||
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FeyFey
Germany10114 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On November 04 2015 02:59 FeyFey wrote: oh and overwatch has a good backseat gaming potential. No pick this hero in this situation against those heroes ! Where would we be without people with less talent telling streamers how to play the game correctly? | ||
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nighcol
298 Posts
On November 03 2015 23:46 Velr wrote: Thats "half" true. Players that really like to play a game will probably allways kinda like too watch it. But many People that rarely Played Dota/Lol/SC2/WC3 still follow(ed) it and thats were "specatability" comes into play. Really? I've never heard that said about any title other than SC2 on that list (that people tend to watch but not play it was based on viewers vs. actual players I think). What exactly do you base your claim that it also holds true for those other titles? | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On November 04 2015 03:31 nighcol wrote: Really? I've never heard that said about any title other than SC2 on that list (that people tend to watch but not play it was based on viewers vs. actual players I think). What exactly do you base your claim that it also holds true for those other titles? Plenty of players on Liquid Dota take time off from the game, but still watch it played. Its just the nature of the hobby, people pick it up, drop it and pick it up again. But they continued to tune in for the major events because they became invested in the players and scene. | ||
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MaestroSC
United States2073 Posts
On November 04 2015 03:33 Plansix wrote: Plenty of players on Liquid Dota take time off from the game, but still watch it played. Its just the nature of the hobby, people pick it up, drop it and pick it up again. But they continued to tune in for the major events because they became invested in the players and scene. I watch The International every year...but i dont play Dota2 more than a handful of games a year, and only if my friends are playing it after being hyped from TI. And I still cannot understand why/how anyone is saying that this game isnt going to be spectator friendly. Its 10x easier to see a bigass dragon killing 2-3 players, than it is to see a player get a headshot with an M4. Also, the same amount of downtime that CSGO has, Overwatch has that too. IF you watch any of the decent matches between the Blizz dev team and either the streamers or the tf2 pro's you cans ee there is plenty of regrouping time after a skirmish. Or when they are building up for a big push. I cant fathom in what way CSGO is more spectator friendly than Overwatch. Have you played/seen a game of Overwatch with a widowmaker on the team? You can see every player on the map, and just form the animations you can tell what they are doing. Even something as simple as that for a spectator mode would make the game incredibly accessible for viewers. I dont understand the argument that bigger effects, along with bigger impact abilities, being worse for viewership. | ||
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RagequitBM
Canada2270 Posts
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Daray
6006 Posts
And I still cannot understand why/how anyone is saying that this game isnt going to be spectator friendly. Its 10x easier to see a bigass dragon killing 2-3 players, than it is to see a player get a headshot with an M4. Seeing big flashy things kill people doesn't necessarily make for a good viewing experience. Seeing someone get 3 quick headshots with m4 vs. a 2 headed red dragon the size of a truck coming through a wall and getting 3 kills. It should be obvious which of the two would appear to take more skill and be more impressive play. I mean the dragon might be cool for the first few times but that's it. Also, the same amount of downtime that CSGO has, Overwatch has that too. IF you watch any of the decent matches between the Blizz dev team and either the streamers or the tf2 pro's you cans ee there is plenty of regrouping time after a skirmish. Or when they are building up for a big push. Now you're just making things up. Absolutely there will small lulls in the action but i doubt it will be enough time to consistently show replays of what happened earlier. In CSGO there is a good ~15 - 30 seconds to show the big kills from last round that you didn't catch on camera after every round. That being said this is just speculating on the current game modes. I cant fathom in what way CSGO is more spectator friendly than Overwatch. Have you played/seen a game of Overwatch with a widowmaker on the team? You can see every player on the map, and just form the animations you can tell what they are doing. Have you played/seen a game of CSGO where there is that exact same thing? O_o Absolutely that would help and be cool but in Overwatch there is not that same suspense as in who peeks and gets the kill etc. Sure kills are important too but in CSGO kills are like 90% of the game. They should just copy everything from the CSGO spectator mode and they'd be ok | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22065 Posts
Do you catch the mad skillz in Hearthstone? No, there are some decisions to be made and they are important but its a pale comparison to say, Magic. So why does Hearthstone have 100k viewers while MtG has 2k? Magic is also played by tens of thousands of people world wide, its not a lack of popularity that is the difference. Being interesting to watch, easily understandable with a minimal of game knowledge and relevant information being clearly displayed is much more important then being able to spot a Hanzo doing a 180 headshot on a Tracer. | ||
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nighcol
298 Posts
On November 04 2015 03:33 Plansix wrote: Plenty of players on Liquid Dota take time off from the game, but still watch it played. Its just the nature of the hobby, people pick it up, drop it and pick it up again. But they continued to tune in for the major events because they became invested in the players and scene. Somewhat meaningless to offer anecdotes or say that some people on some site keep following even while they take a break from playing. The point is that there's some evidence for this being a widespread phenomenon in SC2. Obviously there will always be some people who do that for any game. | ||
Kipsate
Netherlands45349 Posts
also I challenge that being able to land an ult or something on 3 people in Dota/League is easier to understand then let say 2 quick flick headshots with an AK/M4. Guns are just easier to understand then magic, esp when that magic does something to those 3 people that you don't understand versus bullets and 1 guy just being no longer alive. But people watch Halo, so as long as enough people play Overwatch(and I am damn sure that Overwatch will be played a lot) then it should be fine. A good spectator mode goes a long way to making it watchable though. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On November 04 2015 04:59 nighcol wrote: Somewhat meaningless to offer anecdotes or say that some people on some site keep following even while they take a break from playing. The point is that there's some evidence for this being a widespread phenomenon in SC2. Obviously there will always be some people who do that for any game. Except that is where the majority of the 'evidence' that SC2 viewers don't play the game comes from. There are not a lot of people out there collecting publicly available data on the subject. | ||
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