EPTOn August 14 2014 01:09 Manit0u wrote:
I have no idea why they even released Apocalypse
I have no idea why they even released Apocalypse
my bet would be to sell big, overpriced minatures....
Warhammer 40k -Choosing Your Army? - Page 2
| Forum Index > General Games |
|
Snotling
Germany885 Posts
my bet would be to sell big, overpriced minatures.... | ||
|
freelander
Hungary4707 Posts
| ||
|
Requizen
United States33802 Posts
On August 11 2014 16:14 Arisen wrote: I was going to ask a question on the Warhammer 40k thread, but I realized we don't have one (or an active one, at the very least). I thought this could help a fair few people, so it might deserve a regular post rather than a blog. My roomate and I are conspiring to start playing Warhammer 40k. This would be my first tabletop game like it. Of course, my first big consideration is going to be what army to play. I really have 3 big factors when I'm choosing my Army 1) Is it fun? The asthetics of almost every race are fantastic. For anyone who loves sci-fi, I would recommend checking out 40k armies. They really are beautiful. For me, I most enjoy the look of the Tyranid Armies. As a fan of the Alien series and Zerg in Starcraft, the Tyranid's are just so perfectly alien, and they really appeal to the 10 year old kid inside of me. That being said, besides perhaps most of the sisters of battle and eldar, I think everything I've seen looks pretty fantastic (those 2-3 armies just aren't my flavor). Besides Tyranids, I really like the look of both CSM/Deamons and Space Marines/GK/SW's Tacked onto the aesthetics, I want to have fun playing. I really hope to avoid being shoehorned into playing one or two specific ways or being a rubbish army, which I know I've heard people talking about before (namely as the Sisters of Battle, if I recall). For me, Tyranids and Space marines tend to portray the image of a playstyle that appeals to me (weather or not they actually play that way, I couldn't say). The thought of drowning enemies in a huge amount of bodies (Tyranid) is really cool, as well as having the big, beefy murder-death-kill machines (CSM and Space marines and the large Tyranid units). The game is very fun, in my opinion, both the fluff and the game itself. I enjoy playing and collecting/painting both pretty equally. Most armies have a high amount of variance in how to play. For the armies you listed, Tyranids can do spammy armies of small things that flood the board, or lists with big monstrous creatures that are tough to kill. SM armies can vary into specialist troops, heavy vehicles, flyers, or Drop Pod focused first-strike armies. CSM has lots of specialist troops, some big vehicles/Daemons, and ally quit well with Daemons if you want to go that route. You can realistically make an army of your choosing out of a lot of things. Find something fun and then work on making a list out of it. And if you enjoy the hobby aspect (collecting, modelling, and painting), then it's even more fun. 2) Can I do well? While Having fun is my number one priority, I would like to make sure that I can play the army without getting frustrated either because the army is so hard to play (for instance, a lot of people probably wouldn't want to start playing DotA as someone like invoker because the mechanics would be a bit much for someone learning the game), or because the army is a tad bit weak. Very few games are very well balanced, and I'm not heading into Warhammer expecting a perfectly fair, balanced experience. I expect some things to be slightly more powerful; that's just part of playing any type of game. I just want to make sure that my army isn't super weak and I'm going to be frustrated when trying to win games because I chose one of the worst armies. Doing some research, I have found that a lot of people aren't that happy with the new Tyranid changes, for instance. Now, coming from Starcraft, I know perfectly well that people can/will complain about any nerfs; deserved or not. As a person who isn't coming from a 40k background, I can't tell the whine from the legitimate complaints. As of now, I'm most leaning toward Tyranid, and the amount of negative stuff I'm reading about them really makes me worried about how much fun I'm going to be having playing the Tyranid army. As far as doing well, it really depends on a lot of things. Like I said, you can make a list out of anything, but that doesn't mean every list is going to be good. I think every army in the game can win against any other, as long as they build their force correctly. There are some bad units in each army, and each army has at least a few units that are so good they feel broken. Tyranids, despite a lot of whining on forums after their new codex dropped, are doing quite well right now with Monstrous Creature and Flyer focused lists. Their Psychic presence is very high, and their big bugs like the Hive Tyrant are very good. They have trouble with some armies, but for the most part are ok as long as you play right. There is a modicum of tactics in 40k. It's not just line up and shoot/charge each other, you definitely have to think about things like positioning, focus fire, using cover, etc. It also depends on who you play with. If you play with people that spend thousands on the game, play in tournaments, and min/max their lists, you'll have a hard time unless you do the same. But in a mostly casual environment, you shouldn't have to deal with them. If you want to play in that sort of super-competitive environment, you have a lot of work ahead of you. 3) Cost. Warhammer is definitely an expensive hobby. when I found out how much I would have to spend just to get the rulebooks, not even counting the huge cost of figures/paint/time. Having not played, there is a chance that it just won't be my cup of tea. As such, I'd like to make sure that I'm not blowing a huge wad of cash all at once to get a starter army and then find out later that I won't like it. What are generally the most expensive armies to get into? What are the cheapest? Tacked onto this question, how big (points wise) should your starter army be? Perhaps a super simple example of a quick build for a beginner would be great so we can see about how much we would need to spend to get into that army. Every army gets expensive, just in different ways. In "Elite" armies, with small model counts of powerful units, those models tend to be expensive. In spam armies, you have to buy a lot of gribblies, even if each box is cheaper. And remember, the Rules and Army Codex books together will run you over $100. The easiest way to get to know if you want to play is to play with someone else's stuff. Go to a game store or Games Workshop near you. Ask someone if you can play with their army, and most people will say yes (the GW employees will always get you a free game if you come in and ask). Do this once or twice to get a feel of the system, and then start small. The smallest recommended starting army is 500-750, but the game doesn't "balance out" until 1000-1500 imo. In 500, Big Bug Tyranid lists will suck because you don't have enough points, but spam little bug armies will be ok. Tyranids grow in power exponentially the more points they get. If you decide you want to play Nids, plenty of people can help you with list building. On August 12 2014 05:56 Manit0u wrote: Other than that, I suggest you take it slow in the beginning. There's no point in buying a ton of models if after a couple of games you'll come to realise that maybe you'd like some other army. Just get your chosen army's Codex, Battleforce Box and a commander. That should set you up for early skirmishes, and BB's are actually very good value for money. This will let you see how the game is played, learn the rules and have some fun without commiting too much. I also suggest picking armies that have current rulesets already released as this will make your life much easier. Codices that are up-to-date (it's the dawn of 7th edition but most - if not all - of 6th edition codices should do just fine): Astra Militarum Militarum Tempestus Imperial Knights Legion of the Damned (Digital Only Release) Tyranids Inquisition (Digital Only Release) Adepta Sororitas (Digital Only Release) Space Marines Eldar Tau Empire Chaos Daemons Dark Angels Chaos Space Marines Orks Space Wolves That's almost everything (DE and IG are lagging behind, as usual). IG is Astra Militarum  The only things that aren't up-to-date are Blood Angels, Dark Eldar, Necrons, and Grey Knights. Grey Knights should be coming out next month or so. Edit: Oh, I forgot to mention. In 40K you can throw any notion of "balance" out the window. Just so you know. http://www.frontlinegaming.org/2014/05/24/7th-edition-warhammer-40k-review-the-good-the-bad-and-solutions/ Imbalance really only comes up in tourney level games. For the average player, assuming you aren't playing against cheesy assholes who don't want you to have fun, the game is not too imbalanced towards most armies. | ||
|
Hadronsbecrazy
United Kingdom551 Posts
| ||
|
Manit0u
Poland17238 Posts
On August 14 2014 04:09 Requizen wrote: Tyranids, despite a lot of whining on forums after their new codex dropped, are doing quite well right now with Monstrous Creature and Flyer focused lists. Their Psychic presence is very high, and their big bugs like the Hive Tyrant are very good. They have trouble with some armies, but for the most part are ok as long as you play right. I haven't read the newest Codex Tyranids (which is surprising, seeing how I own 3 previous codexes and adore the army) but after their latest incarnation I'm quite sceptic. Why are the people whining now? It seems that nids got some boosts in initiative department (hoorah!), but not much else. The only real change I was looking for in the newest codex is if they have finally adjusted their TOUGHNESS (they didn't, which means that your big, bad, expensive monsters can be killed by regular guardsmen armed with flashlights without much sweat). Also, facing DE is an absolute nightmare for nids (Remember the guardsmen? This gus have it even easier). Every army gets expensive, just in different ways. In "Elite" armies, with small model counts of powerful units, those models tend to be expensive. In spam armies, you have to buy a lot of gribblies, even if each box is cheaper. And remember, the Rules and Army Codex books together will run you over $100. The easiest way to get to know if you want to play is to play with someone else's stuff. Go to a game store or Games Workshop near you. Ask someone if you can play with their army, and most people will say yes (the GW employees will always get you a free game if you come in and ask). Do this once or twice to get a feel of the system, and then start small. The smallest recommended starting army is 500-750, but the game doesn't "balance out" until 1000-1500 imo. In 500, Big Bug Tyranid lists will suck because you don't have enough points, but spam little bug armies will be ok. Tyranids grow in power exponentially the more points they get. If you decide you want to play Nids, plenty of people can help you with list building. First of all, "elite" armies will still be less expensive than "swarm" armies of comparable points value. All you need to do to verify that is take a look at the cost of their basic units (which you'll need either way). Space Marine Tactical Squad ~$39 (10 minis) Ork Boyz ~$28 (10 minis) Now, it seems that the "swarm" guys are cheaper, but in fact if you want to build a full squad the costs look like that: Space Marines $39 (full squad, with sergeant, heavy weapon and special weapon) Orks $107 (full squad of boyz, with nob, special and heavy weapons) Note that under the previous edition rules (last edition I attempted to play) you needed at least 2 "basic" squads and a commander in your force... Also, I disagree on Nids getting better the more points grow. More points means more cheap units for the enemy that can kill your big and expensive dudes. Nidzilla is dead (and has been for a while). Imbalance really only comes up in tourney level games. For the average player, assuming you aren't playing against cheesy assholes who don't want you to have fun, the game is not too imbalanced towards most armies. For the average player, if you pick Nids and your friend picks DE as you starter armies, neither of you are going to have fun (unless you enjoy being slaughtered/slaughtering your opponent every single time). Competitive scene is actually more balanced (despite the game not being balanced) because everyone wants to succeed, everyone knows what's best and everyone's going to use it (pretty much like WarCraft II, where everyone plays orcs). You can't deny the fact that there are instagib matchups in 40K. On August 14 2014 04:30 Hadronsbecrazy wrote: is there a similar thread for fantasy? You can start one if you wish. I find it better than 40K (6th edition killed it for me) and am seriously considering going back to basics (as I was originally playing WFB since 4th but switched entirely to 40k around 6th - was playing 40k since 2nd). | ||
|
Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
| ||
|
iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
I am a competitive WH40k player who has been collecting them since I was 12 (16 years now). First of all.. ignore the haters. GW is a funny business in that they equally rope in and make sweet passionate love to their user base but they also create bitter whiney people that constantly threaten to "leave" and play other games. 40k can be life changing cool and good for you OR it can be another game.. ultimately people telling you "this one is boring" or "it's got bad rules" are the kind of people you should ignore.. go to a shop, watch a game, check out bat reps on youtube or read up on it.. this game has a RICH tradition in awesomeness and if you don't believe me read into it but don't listen to the haters.. they are everywhere. Some questions I saw: 1. Is it expensive? YES! It certainly is out of the box and ordered online. Can you do it cheaper? YES! Craigslist, ebay, local connections, facebook groups etc.. or if you are super creative you can mod things and use models from other games (within reason). 2. Is it fun? Find out for yourself but my extremely biased opinion is that it is one of the coolest and most fun things you can do. It is also a social game by nature.. I've strengthened friendships, made new ones and obtained some of my absolute best friends in life through this game. 3. Elite armies OP? I play Nids. Generally considered a upper mid tier army in competition (I Play in the biggest tourneys outside of ETC there is!) and I can tell you that while I LOVE winning my love for the bugs is greater and even with them not being Eldar, Tau, Necrons or Space Marines I still am ranked #2 in the ITC (simply put: ranking for all the best players in the USA around the west coast). Some armies are way better than others but for the MOST part all of them CAN win even in the most competitive scenes.. just fewer options on how they do that etc. If you have more questions fire away. I tweet about WH40k and I am apart of team0comp which is one of/the best team on the west coast | ||
|
Seraphic
United States3849 Posts
I was choosing Eldar as my start. As agility/range has always been a thing for me. I always choose agility types over strength (that's kind of my MO when it comes to games) But the part that killed it for me, really was the price. When I first got interested, I had no income, so it was literally impossible for me. That and I wasn't great with painting at that time (and super lazy ) However, I still sort of follow 40k because i love the lore and stuff. I always read up on it when I can.From what I remember when I was trying to learn though, Space Marines and Chaos Marines were the most common that I have seen. Only because they are pretty much overall rounded good in all aspects. While not having anything that would cripple them like Eldar or Human being physically weak in combat etc. But I also remember that Necrons were considered very strong and hard to kill also. But yes 40k takes a long time to learn. A LONG time to learn. Codexes, painting, general strat and learning. It is harder then a traditional hobby like video games tends to be. You have to invest yourself deeply into the game. And also you need a good environment too, with people willing to help you with it. (Learning part I mean) So, I mean if you can pick it up, good luck  It is fun, but time consuming as hell lol | ||
|
Arisen
United States2382 Posts
On August 14 2014 09:21 iNcontroL wrote: HEY! I am a competitive WH40k player who has been collecting them since I was 12 (16 years now). First of all.. ignore the haters. GW is a funny business in that they equally rope in and make sweet passionate love to their user base but they also create bitter whiney people that constantly threaten to "leave" and play other games. 40k can be life changing cool and good for you OR it can be another game.. ultimately people telling you "this one is boring" or "it's got bad rules" are the kind of people you should ignore.. go to a shop, watch a game, check out bat reps on youtube or read up on it.. this game has a RICH tradition in awesomeness and if you don't believe me read into it but don't listen to the haters.. they are everywhere. Some questions I saw: 1. Is it expensive? YES! It certainly is out of the box and ordered online. Can you do it cheaper? YES! Craigslist, ebay, local connections, facebook groups etc.. or if you are super creative you can mod things and use models from other games (within reason). 2. Is it fun? Find out for yourself but my extremely biased opinion is that it is one of the coolest and most fun things you can do. It is also a social game by nature.. I've strengthened friendships, made new ones and obtained some of my absolute best friends in life through this game. 3. Elite armies OP? I play Nids. Generally considered a upper mid tier army in competition (I Play in the biggest tourneys outside of ETC there is!) and I can tell you that while I LOVE winning my love for the bugs is greater and even with them not being Eldar, Tau, Necrons or Space Marines I still am ranked #2 in the ITC (simply put: ranking for all the best players in the USA around the west coast). Some armies are way better than others but for the MOST part all of them CAN win even in the most competitive scenes.. just fewer options on how they do that etc. If you have more questions fire away. I tweet about WH40k and I am apart of team0comp which is one of/the best team on the west coast Sweet. Cool to get a response from iNcontroL. As a new player, if I choose to play Tyranids, are there any types of armies/units I should be avoiding? I wouldn't want to just copy a competitive list and start with that because there's a good chance I won't know enough about the game to play that army the way I should. I've heard in a few youtube videos I've watched that Tyranids can be pretty punishing to newer players especially because you don't know how to position yourself. I've been trying to find VLOGs etc for awhile, but it's hard to tell who is just whining (no, MY race is harder) or if that really is true, and what I can do about it. As a competitive player, what would you say is a good place point wise to start playing at to learn the game? In a game like WH40k i have to imagine it's hard for every army to be relevant at any point value range; as someone mentioned earlier in the thread, if you're playing at 500 points you can't really field a lot of big bugs, etc. On a related note, is there a good community site for WH40k? I'm finding it's hard to find a lot of information about warhammer if you don't know where to look. It would be nice to be able look for good lists for beginners and talk strategy/read articles. Thanks for everyone who gave me feedback! I hope a few people got some good use out of this thread and not just me! | ||
|
Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
| ||
|
chasemme
United States25 Posts
On August 15 2014 21:25 Arisen wrote: On a related note, is there a good community site for WH40k? I'm finding it's hard to find a lot of information about warhammer if you don't know where to look. It would be nice to be able look for good lists for beginners and talk strategy/read articles. I'm not sure how big of an area you live in, but in the several nerd-boutiques around my city, I have yet to see one that doesn't offer some support for WH40k and only one that doesn't have an active community playing there. We just got a Games Workshop store here about 2 years ago, and it's a really cool place with a friendly owner. Even without a site, you're playing what is probably the most popular miniatures game on the market, so it shouldn't be too difficult to find some kindred spirits. I would encourage you to shop around for the options in the market. I agree with iNcontroL's points, but I would argue that his message could apply to most miniatures games. As long as there is a community nearby to play with, the other games are worth a look. Personally, I love buying these sorts of things new, and the price tag on 40k was little to much for my playgroup, so we're going with Infinity. | ||
|
Just_a_Moth
Canada1948 Posts
You have to at least admit that Eldar vehicles are the sexiest things in all of Warhammer, though, right? | ||
|
Arisen
United States2382 Posts
On August 16 2014 13:13 Just_a_Moth wrote: Eldar don't appeal to you? You have to at least admit that Eldar vehicles are the sexiest things in all of Warhammer, though, right? Just not my flavor of fantasy/sci-fi. I like alien feeling things, and eldar don't do it for me. The wriathlord/knight look pretty cool, I'll admit, but I don't think they look half as good as a Mawloc or Trigon. That's just me though. | ||
|
Latham
9560 Posts
Like I heard Space Marines are generally well rounded and can deal reasonably well with everything thrown at them. They are also a good starting point for new people. Don't expect to field many models. Chaos Space Marines are like SMs but excel more at offence and with much cooler units like Defiler, Hell Drake Daemon Prince and Forgefiend Expect to field even fewer models than you did with SMs.Tyranids are CQC specialists, field a lot of weak models mixed in with specialist high-damage ones. Pretty versatile but have a hard time brining down armoured units I've heard? Eldar have good psychik abilities, a highly specialised army that can deal with anything, BUT requires fielding the right units and relying on synergy. Necrons A sturdy but not very exciting mix of units. Specialise in mid range combat? Roll for their units to rise back up from the dead? If Tyranids or Orks get close, Necrons will get shredded up close? Orks Another zergy army, but with a lot of options to field. Can spec for both melee and ranged combat. Individually units have low stats, but when 12/15 models roll for 2-3 shots each and then charge in to melee they can do surprisingly well, or incredibly poorly. Bring lots of die. Tau High mobility, good long-range damage. Melee virtually non-existent. Basic squads and units (Fire caste, Krooks?) high model count. Imperial Guard basic units literally cannon fodder armed with flashlights. Elite and Armour effective, versatile, specialised. Deamons Pretty much CQC everything. Dark Eldar Fragile, hyperagressive. 1 bad decision or dice roll = dead. I'm not really up to date on the codexes and what each new edition brings. These are kinda ball park guesses from the overall general trend. | ||
|
Stratos_speAr
United States6959 Posts
On August 12 2014 06:35 chasemme wrote: Interesting timing. I've just now been looking to get back into the game. Collected and painted DE when I was really young, but never played much. Useful thread, and thanks for the Battleforce Box suggestion, Manit0u, didn't even know they had those. Despite Godwrath's negative opinion of the company, I think his first point may be the most important piece of advice here. What you should play and how much you'll be expected to invest in any hobby like this will greatly vary depending on where you live and what the local community is playing. EDIT: I would argue, cost-wise, it's not horribly worse than other gaming hobbies. The barrier for entry isn't even that bad. Compare to needing to buy a console or a PC before you can start playing video games, or shelling out the money to build a competitive MtG deck from scratch. Then reasonable box (or more) of miniatures will cost what you might spend on AAA games or new board games. Of course this is just speculation after looking at prices, but I don't see myself breaking the bank on this. The cost is actually pretty bad. You're comparing playing 40k casually to playing MtG competitively. If you do a fair comparsion, we can see that casual (yet competent) MtG decks run under $50. As for the video game comparison, a video game console is still probably cheaper than the entry level for 40k, mostly due to the fact that the majority of people that play it play at 1500+ point levels, which will cost you several hundred dollars. For years I found it quite difficult to get small point games in because the interest is so low. As for other TT games, GWS is easily the most expensive company out there. Many TT games are much smaller in scope, and even Warmachine, which can get a pretty high model count, is noticeably less expensive. As for my overall recommendations, I would just say this. I absolutely LOVE the Warhammer universe(s). They're really fun, diverse, and have room for a lot of customization and whatnot. The downside is GWS. They have a bad reputation for a very, very, very good reason. Their pricing is AWFUL. You will spend a lot of money to start your army. It cost me over $200 to start a Dark Eldar army at anywhere between 500-800 points, whereas a 50 point army in Warmachine, which is the largest competitive format and is considered the "standard", cost me well less than $200. Not only will you spend a lot of money to start, but their balancing and release schedule is terrible. If you pick a less popular faction, you won't get an update for years. All Warhammer books cost an absurd amount of money. Models cost an absurd amount of money and consistently increase in price at a ridiculous rate. They release new editions way too soon, costing you a whole lot more money, and the rules set for 40k has been considered one of the worst in tabletop gaming for years now. Finally, with each new codex, you get new "FotM" armies, and your models frequently become obsolete with releases. Again, as a universe, I absolutely love Warhammer/40k. Unfortunately, GWS is an absolutely despicable company, and unless you're prepared to spend a LOT of money, I would suggest that you enjoy the universe only in the most casual of ways and don't worry about constantly picking up the new codices/editions/models/"good" armies. Alright, now that this is out of the way, back to the game. My general summary: Space Marines: An entire faction of Navy SEALs combined with Paladins. Very strong all-around, with few models, but they're quite tough. Chaos Space Marines: Similar to Space Marines in a lot of ways, except that there's a lot more spikes, blood, and demons. I can't note many significant differences in their styles from my days of facing them. Imperial Guard: Think Terran from SC. Swarm with a lot of vehicles/artillery and a lot of ranged firepower. Not a lot of melee power. Sisters of Battle: Don't bother. Eldar: Elves. Higher point cost than some armies, but relatively frail. Their infantry are (supposed to be) very specialized to particular roles. Their vehicles are incredibly cool and quite powerful. Last time I knew anything about the meta, Eldar REALLY relied on vehicles and almost never put infantry on the table. Dark Eldar: Dark Elves. Easily the hardest faction to play. Very frail, a lot of hit-and-run tactics. They don't have anything in the entire faction that can really take a hit. They rely on a lot of shenanigans, speed, and a lot of Dark Lances. Orks: Swarm army. Individual models are atrocious. Somehow, these guys, who are slightly more intelligent than monkeys, randomly throw together technology that somehow works and get a lot of cool stuff. They basically steal tanks, put together ramshackle helicoptors and motorcycles, and ride inside barrels outfitted with buzzsaw arms as equivalents to the Dreadnaughts. Tyranids: Basically Zerg. Necrons: Space Undead. Strong and slow. LOTS of firepower. As of a little over a year ago, their flyers were the most dominant ones in the game. Tau: Asian aliens with a LOT of long-ranged firepower. Gundam-inspired battle suits, very weak in melee, and some of the longest-ranged guns in the game. Daemons: Almost seem like 4 small armies in one faction (each devoted to a particular God). Very random, have a lot of different abilities, and very fun. Lots of death, destruction, creepiness, spikes, fire, torturing, etc. With a miniatures game, you need to pick a faction that you 1) enjoy the aesthetics of, and 2) enjoy the playstyle of, in that order. You will spend a LOT of time assembling and painting models, so if you don't enjoy the aesthetic, it will become a chore very quickly. You also want to make sure you enjoy what you are doing on the table with them, since an average game takes several hours, and if you don't enjoy that time, then what's the point? I really wouldn't recommend paying attention to the meta, as that shifts very drastically with GWS and their release schedule/balancing "strategy". | ||
|
chasemme
United States25 Posts
On August 17 2014 11:33 Stratos_speAr wrote: The cost is actually pretty bad. Yeahhh, I'm gonna be completely honest and just say that there was a lot of nostalgia in my defense of the cost. My enthusiasm came and went pretty quickly when I started looking into how much getting started was actually going to run me. I posted again on this page mentioning that the people I play with are opting to go with Infinity. Pretty much able to start playing for half the price of just what my Necron models were going to be (Plus some improvising with lego terrain). Also, it's gaining some ground here, so we're pretty much set. | ||
|
Godwrath
Spain10121 Posts
My zone currently is full Xwing, infinity (both with games going on a few times a week, and tournaments each month), and then, you can see some 40k players (rarely, and they have tournaments each 3-6 months). Fantasy is basically dead. I wonder why it is. Haters i guess. Hell, even mordheim is played more than fantasy. But since i have some time to spend writing, "Ignore the haters" I had been playing 40k and fantasy since i am 12 year old. I stopped two years ago (6th edition). You can be pretty sure that i am passionate about GW's products. First the game is absolutely crap if you don't have a decent sized army (and i would argue it also is with a decent sized army, but hey, i will try to be nice enough, because pretty sure people who actually play it spent more than 1 thousand dollars). You should know this, since you actually bought a prepainted full army, didn't you ? The reason is because the game has suffered from model inflation syndrom to boost sales since third edition. Many times i tried to play 250 - 500 point games with new players just to teach them the game. Compared to a demo game from infinity or xwing, where you already have shiny stuff, it is so boring and bland that it makes you want to kill yourself. Do you want to start a bland experience with a 80 euro army box + 60 euro rulebook + 40 euro codex = 180 euro just to start, with shitty and boring units on a game intended to play at 6-10 times that size, or you spend 37 euros on a infinity starter, already have some fun models, and start playing outright. Seems like a no brainer. Second the game designers are completely out of touch. Models point cost or upgrades, doesn't follow any kind of formula or playtesting outside additive (because they don't playtest their crap, if you want examples to know why, just check most of Matt Ward's work, he has a lot of history, so it may take a little bit). Third, the cost, well, you need a decent sized army for this game, but what is a decent sized army ? A lot of models, ranging from 1750 to 2000 points. This can perfectly cost you up to 600 euros. The barrier entry is that bad, because the game system has been increasing the scale over and over for no apparent reason, and because GW thinks their plastic is like cocaine. Fourth The game is blatantly unbalanced. Ask anyone about Taudar, and they will share with you some stories. Fifth Every game takes around 2-3 hours. Other game systems, around one hour, or one hour and half. Difference is that you are very likely to try out more stuff, play more games, and with different people when you get to play it. Tournament results are also less skewed because of this. Sixth read their own CEO from their annual's report preamble: http://investor.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Chairmans-Preamble-2014.pdf Completely nuts. Doesn't hire on skills. Resumees ? What's that ? We had a bad year, but don't worry, we spent 4 million pounds on a website online store (lol), while we lost the entire client database. And i will call it de-risked, when what we did was fire people. Also, we are apple, and we don't make customer research because who the fuck wants to know what a few nerds want. They will buy our precious products anyways. They had been screwing over the LGS (Local gaming stores, the ones where you go to play), since forever, but now most of their model range isn't even accessible at that LGS, one of the reasons why US LGS went on a strike. So yeah, i am doing a favor to new players who want to get into miniature gaming. If you like wh40k, sure go for it, but try out the different game systems first, and look around your LGS (because 1man GW stores... means you can't play games there) before, to know what they are playing. 40k isn't a hobby cheap enough to be unwillingly just in your shelves. And now i am done, gotta be on a BBQ in one hour. Have fun, and even with my negativity, if you really like 40k, try it out. But try out the different miniature games too, and speak with people at your LGS, they will run you demo games etc. Seriously, this games are mostly about the social aspect, if you can't find people to play with, they become a collectionist hobby instead. | ||
|
Manit0u
Poland17238 Posts
http://www.40konline.com/ Now, back to ranting: I agree with Godwrath here. 40K/WFB have really cool universe, but as a game they suck. The best games in this universe are definitely Battlefleet Gothic (40K) and Mordheim (WFB). They don't cost so much, the rules are decent enough and the fun from playing them is immeasurably higher than regular 40K/WFB. Now, all is cool and dandy until you do what Godwrath suggested - try out other systems (Warmahordes/Infinity/Malifaux for example). You simply can't go back to playing your Warhammer after that as you begin to see how much better the rules and playstyle could be, how much better models can be, how much more balanced it can be, how much cheaper it can be and, finally, how much more fun it can be. If you want Warhammer, I advise sticking with BFG/Mordheim (rules available for free, ships for BFG might be a bit of an issue). Bonus: My son's work. #prouddad ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Fsdlq7o.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/jHjc76S.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/OCcOljf.jpg) More Bonus: My HT, so that inControl won't be mad at me for dissing 40k... ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/C6roW94.png) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/YEkffea.png) And my latest endavours in Infinity (just to show you how cool their minis are), still WIP. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/ZU6K8B1.png) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/lkHyX3q.png) Painting is the best part of the hobby for me. Pity I don't have as much time on my hands these days... | ||
|
Stratos_speAr
United States6959 Posts
I'm an avid Warmahordes player, and since I only break out the Warhammer stuff casually with some friends, we just house rule a lot of stuff to mimick a lot of the Warmahordes system. Makes the game much quicker and a lot more fun. | ||
|
chasemme
United States25 Posts
On August 17 2014 19:56 Manit0u wrote: And my latest endavours in Infinity (just to show you how cool their minis are), still WIP. Aww dang. My GF just had her Ariadna starter pack ordered from our FLGS. Excited to start painting. On August 17 2014 19:56 Manit0u wrote: Painting is the best part of the hobby for me. Pity I don't have as much time on my hands these days... I will offer another general point here (that I think has been stated here more than once), if there's some army for some game that you find yourself absolutely in love with, you can probably compromise on the gameplay and price for that game. You're going to spend an obnoxious amount of time staring at half-done models from that set, and I'd argue the most critical part of it is making sure you're excited to look at them every single time. | ||
| ||
