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On May 12 2017 11:57 Sentenal wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2017 08:49 thePunGun wrote:Everything getting rebalanced at once, and then revising them each year with community feedback is the current promise. I think hardcore codex collectors will be pissed, but for the sake of a better game experience, even these guys will come around eventually. The idea of a (universal) living ruleset sounds neat, we'll see how it pans out. Considering the amount of community feedback and the extensive playtesing, they've mentioned...this might be "the best edition ever". I'm not convinced yet, but to some extent...hopeful.  There are some, but I think for the most part, people expect new edition means new books. Thus far its confirmed that Core Rules will be released free online, and army rules will be available in "low cost books". Its also speculated that unit stats and profiles will all be released online for free, since thats what they do for Age of Sigmar (although this isn't confirmed yet for 40k).
Basically new editions spawning new books is why new editions exist, not because the previous one is bad but because that is how gaming companies make money. They make your previous investments outdated and thus you have to get new ones because we are all suckers.
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People don't collect codexes because they want to collect codexes. They collect codexes because they need to know all the rules. The problem was that in 7th Ed, you need about 5 books for each faction, and that's a problem when you own 5 1500+ pts armies and your local gaming group has all the armies between them. It soon reached the breaking point where no one person could memorise all the rules.
In the end we all branched out to different games which had different business models. The ones pissed off at Age of Sigmar crap went to Kings of War with their free rules and army lists (that it was written by Alessio Cavatore helps). A lot of 40k guys went off to Warmachines/Hordes, with their clear ruleset and customer interaction and communication was a breath of fresh air, where new editions don't come every 3 years and are an improvement over the previous. The ones who liked Imperial Guard and tanks ended up playing Flames of War which gives out replacement editions for free! One guy went of to ancient historicals, but we never heard from him again. So as you can see, just about every other gaming companies with inferior IP manage to be successful with other business models.
Reading some of the teaser rules and FAQ for 8th, it does seem like the new rules would be great and deals with the everlasting problem of vehicle and monstrous creatures balance, but for most of us in my gaming group the only thing bringing us back to 40k is the familiar albiet awesome universe and that we already have multiple ready painted armies that only need to be found and dusted off.
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Yeah, of course there are dozens of companies that do cool things and who support the hobby somehow! I didn't mean to sound like I was dissing them all.
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I'm just disagreeing with the idea that gaming companies make money from spawning new books and editions. Some have free rules, and some replace your old book with new editions for free. GW business model isn't the only model out there that's all.
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They can make money out of books, they just don't choose to make money out of them because in this time accessibility is way more important to sell what you want to sell, miniature models, and free rules work as a open catalog which instantly work as a plug in and play. That business model has been obsolete for years already but only now GW is pivoting away from it.
You don't need to sell your customers XX book to keep up every time you want to release models because you can do it in various ways that do not require your player to own any product other than the models themselves, such as having unit profiles online for free like infinity does or using cards which come with your models like Xwing or Malifaux.
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People don't collect codexes because they want to collect codexes. They collect codexes because they need to know all the rules.
Of course there are people who just wanna know the rules. But there are also completionists, who want shiny books on their shelves. They've bought every single set of printed rules GW ever released. That's why there are collector's editions, those guys want more than just rules. They love the lore, art prints and all the other goodies.
I've met quite a few. (Some are pretty elitist know-it-alls, tbh)
I'm not sayin they're the majority, but they do exist. It's almost like they've lost 1 sanity, for every single codex, they've ever bought. 
edit:
it's codices not codexes
(guess I'm also a lil' know-it-all, who knew?!^^)
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On May 13 2017 01:29 thePunGun wrote:
edit:
it's codices not codexes
(guess I'm also a lil' know-it-all, who knew?!^^)
FYI: both forms are correct.
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Well, the grammatically correct pluralisation is codices (from the latin caudex: trunk of a tree), however it might be correct in high gothic. 
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I'm all for codices. Just like I was all for colossi instead of colossuses
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Nevermind... Didn't see the dates correctly 
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Full leaks for the new edition is out. A lot of game stores have demo copies of the new starter set, and copies of the core rules and Indexes for previewing.
Currently all armies have their rules and points in these Index books. Some armies are lacking some flavorful rules right now, but army codexes are forthcoming to fix that.
Most reaction of people playing so far is positive. Its definitely a lot simplier now with Scatter and templates gone, along with vehicle facing.
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Watch the live stream earlier, seemed really fluid and easy to pick up for both veterans to the game and people who are coming back.
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After 7th Edition, veterans have basically run through tertiary education all over again.
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Well, GW releases the indexes not for free, neither the rules. So it's pretty much old GW business track.
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The rules (8 pages) should be free but prob wont release until the edition actually comes out on the 17th.
Donno if Indexes will be free.
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Some of the new ideas sound very good, some sound quite bad for a wargame, notably all the stuff that removes flanking/positioning, like vehicle facing or no templates, or manual wound allocation
It has less meaning now to carefully position your models because the enemy has a whirlwind/basilisk, nor does it have meaning to flank a slow tank with fast units like land speeders.
I would have much preffered that the vehicle facing determined the armour save, and that templates were kept (they werent the most complex rule at all)
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On June 03 2017 21:33 Gorsameth wrote:
The rules (8 pages) should be free but prob wont release until the edition actually comes out on the 17th.
Donno if Indexes will be free.
Ìndexes are 20€ each one (already on preorder). The rules aren't only 8 pages to be honest, that's the sheet that comes in the starter box, the typical rules sheet.
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Actually, the worst thing about WH and 40K was a steady increase of models required to play a game. This, along with heavy nerfing and buffing between editions made it so that not only you had to buy a ton of minis, but also made some of them go from OP to obsolete and back between editions. I couldn't really stand it so I left.
Also, introducing new people was hard as hell since you couldn't simply buy just one or a couple of cheap boxes and play a meaningful game. What they should do from the beginning was releasing some form of starter packs (where you would get an HQ and 2 troops, minimum required for a viable army) for each and every faction that would all have similar point values. This way you could simply buy a pack, your friend would grab one too and you could be playing right away. Before I quit you had to have a rulebook (through starter box or stand alone, which was quite pricy), then the codices where you had the point values and options for your faction. After figuring it all out on paper you would then have to finally buy some minis (at this point you've probably invested somewhere along $70-100 into it), which would include buying at least 2 boxes and a blister (which is another $75, not guaranteeing point equality with a friend who did the same).
They do offer some starter packs now, but it's too little too late in my opinion. Also, spending $85 to play some 200-300 point game is pretty crap since you don't get anything really interesting for that and it generally feels awkward.
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On June 03 2017 22:22 Godwrath wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2017 21:33 Gorsameth wrote:
The rules (8 pages) should be free but prob wont release until the edition actually comes out on the 17th.
Donno if Indexes will be free. Ìndexes are 20€ each one (already on preorder). The rules aren't only 8 pages to be honest, that's the sheet that comes in the starter box, the typical rules sheet.
The Core rules are 8 pages. The rulebook further contains ~6 pages to explain matched play and battleforged armies and the rest is missions and background.
Its all been leaked already.
8th is most likely cheaper to play then 7th was because most armies have gone up in points (basic troops remained the same while elites, which is the bulk of most armies, has gone up.
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I saw the leak on youtube. Weirdly i thought there were more than 8 pages, my bad. But it's true that the main phases rules never really bloated the rulebook, it always was special rules and vehicles for the most part, and since those are on the datasheets or don't exist anymore, it is much shorter.
@Manitaou that's the problem for bigger than skirmish wargames. Malifaux or infinity aren't cheap, but since its starting point is about half of a regular match, and that you can get meaningful choices and rules interactions from the get go since there are no "units", a starter box suffice to get a good feeling of the game and have meaningful games.
They are meant to be played at certain point levels that are far away from a start budget range. I agree that it didn't help that they doubled the amount of models required to play from 2th to 3th edition and continued to do increase it afterwards, but it's kind of the problem of the genre, rather than GW's fault alone (well, they should do a budget model range imo with less quality but more quantity akin to mantic games). I remember when i started on 2th edition, i bought a box with 30 marines for what would be 30€ today. That, and a few blisters and i had something actually interesting to play with. Now ? Good luck with 40-50€ going into warhammer.
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EPT
