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On October 30 2014 03:54 Capped wrote:
AC is ridiculously old, is it really as deep as a modern Civ game? I doubt it tbh. I remember master of orion games being epic as fuq back then but they were pretty shallow in comparison.
EDIT: Not as old as i thought, but still!
AC is the best TBS game I have ever played and probably will ever play. It still holds up really well compared to games today and it's still quite a complex game. The lore is so good in it as well. The factions have personalities and agendas that are believable. It's just such a good game, god I'm nerding out so hard right now thinking about it.
But if you've never played Alpha Centauri I would highly recommend you buy it. You won't regret it as long as you like those kind of games.
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On October 30 2014 05:01 Krohm wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2014 03:54 Capped wrote:
AC is ridiculously old, is it really as deep as a modern Civ game? I doubt it tbh. I remember master of orion games being epic as fuq back then but they were pretty shallow in comparison.
EDIT: Not as old as i thought, but still! AC is the best TBS game I have ever played and probably will ever play. It still holds up really well compared to games today and it's still quite a complex game. The lore is so good in it as well. The factions have personalities and agendas that are believable. It's just such a good game, god I'm nerding out so hard right now thinking about it. But if you've never played Alpha Centauri I would highly recommend you buy it. You won't regret it as long as you like those kind of games.
Seconded. There are a few good ideas they brought to CivBE, such as the tech web. But CivBE has not and will never give me the chills-down-my-spine moments when you watch the cinemetics that you get after you finish AC wonders. Youtube them. And if you're not a stickler about graphics and pretty explosions, 15 years later it still is a joy to play it. The lore and personalities weren't shallow, they were some of the most in-depth human factions that I've ever played.
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On October 30 2014 05:41 hummingbird23 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2014 05:01 Krohm wrote:On October 30 2014 03:54 Capped wrote:
AC is ridiculously old, is it really as deep as a modern Civ game? I doubt it tbh. I remember master of orion games being epic as fuq back then but they were pretty shallow in comparison.
EDIT: Not as old as i thought, but still! AC is the best TBS game I have ever played and probably will ever play. It still holds up really well compared to games today and it's still quite a complex game. The lore is so good in it as well. The factions have personalities and agendas that are believable. It's just such a good game, god I'm nerding out so hard right now thinking about it. But if you've never played Alpha Centauri I would highly recommend you buy it. You won't regret it as long as you like those kind of games. Seconded. There are a few good ideas they brought to CivBE, such as the tech web. But CivBE has not and will never give me the chills-down-my-spine moments when you watch the cinemetics that you get after you finish AC wonders. Youtube them. And if you're not a stickler about graphics and pretty explosions, 15 years later it still is a joy to play it. The lore and personalities weren't shallow, they were some of the most in-depth human factions that I've ever played.
You just made me go watch all the cutscenes on youtube.
"We must dissent!"
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"To map the very stuff of life; to look into the genetic mirror and watch a million generations march past. That, friends, is both our curse and our proudest achievement. For it is in reaching to our beginnings that we begin to learn who we truly are.
-- Academician Prokhor Zakharov, "Address to the Faculty"
As a biologist, this one makes me happy.  Also this.
One positive comment about CivBE though, I liked the subtle snarky humor that they wrote into the game text. While it's not up to the depth of AC, it's better than Civ 4 and 5.
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On October 30 2014 05:01 Krohm wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2014 03:54 Capped wrote:
AC is ridiculously old, is it really as deep as a modern Civ game? I doubt it tbh. I remember master of orion games being epic as fuq back then but they were pretty shallow in comparison.
EDIT: Not as old as i thought, but still! AC is the best TBS game I have ever played and probably will ever play. It still holds up really well compared to games today and it's still quite a complex game. The lore is so good in it as well. The factions have personalities and agendas that are believable. It's just such a good game, god I'm nerding out so hard right now thinking about it. But if you've never played Alpha Centauri I would highly recommend you buy it. You won't regret it as long as you like those kind of games.
I remember playing AC when I was younger. Basically always picked the Spartan Federation and steamrolled across the map with a way superior military.
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Things I'd like them to do to BE that wont require major coding:
ultrasonic fence is turned into a satellite, no immunity to convoys.
either battle suits costs float stone or more titanium because right now its the only affinity unit that is free of an affinity resource
maping script fixed up so there are less ravines, more areas for the ai to operate in
slavic federations satellite into free tech changed to something because between that and the free tech with the institute you have battle suits by turn 50.
faction colors made stronger -- right now almost all of them blend into the terrain.
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On October 30 2014 22:36 maartendq wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2014 05:01 Krohm wrote:On October 30 2014 03:54 Capped wrote:
AC is ridiculously old, is it really as deep as a modern Civ game? I doubt it tbh. I remember master of orion games being epic as fuq back then but they were pretty shallow in comparison.
EDIT: Not as old as i thought, but still! AC is the best TBS game I have ever played and probably will ever play. It still holds up really well compared to games today and it's still quite a complex game. The lore is so good in it as well. The factions have personalities and agendas that are believable. It's just such a good game, god I'm nerding out so hard right now thinking about it. But if you've never played Alpha Centauri I would highly recommend you buy it. You won't regret it as long as you like those kind of games. I remember playing AC when I was younger. Basically always picked the Spartan Federation and steamrolled across the map with a way superior military.
yes, the ai is incompetent. That you could win with what was probably the second weakest faction just shows that many 'AC was the best' are just remembering the optionality (some of it was cool, raising/lowering water table/mountains was definitely the best, hard points on units is much more meh because 90% of the time you just go best things onto best chassis) the game provided but not the competent challenge of the ai.
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On October 31 2014 04:41 Sub40APM wrote:
Things I'd like them to do to BE that wont require major coding:
ultrasonic fence is turned into a satellite, no immunity to convoys.
either battle suits costs float stone or more titanium because right now its the only affinity unit that is free of an affinity resource
maping script fixed up so there are less ravines, more areas for the ai to operate in
slavic federations satellite into free tech changed to something because between that and the free tech with the institute you have battle suits by turn 50.
faction colors made stronger -- right now almost all of them blend into the terrain.
Agreed with pretty much all of these points, although I'm not sure changing the ultrasonic fence is the way to tone down trade routes. They need to be a) not as powerful and b) not so spammy (without mods). I kind of like that after an upgrade I no longer have to worry about random trade routes getting pillaged by aliens, but I see the merit in forcing people to actually protect their trade rather than getting a free pass. Perhaps if the number of routes is cut down I wouldn't mind having to babysit them so much.
On that note, while I like the quest system associated with buildings, it would be nice if they tell you what each building leads to, quest wise. I didn't know that ultrasonic fences gave such an OP boost until I watched a Lets Play because I considered that building so useless I never bothered with it. I'm sure there will be mods that provide that information, but right now it's kind of a shot in the dark because the building you are getting is not the complete picture of the bonuses it provides.
I'd be all for less canyons and impassable terrain, it just seems excessive at the moment and messes with the AI script. I also agree about faction colors, there are a few (ARC/Franco-Iberia/Kavithan and Brasil/Polystralia) that are not only too close to one another, but too close to the landscape, which always seems to be a shade of purple or green.
Most of the complaints people have about the game are completely legitimate, but I still don't its fair to call it a "mod" for Civ 5. I'm enjoying the hell out of it so far, and even though its unfortunate I know that Firaxis will probably only make this game better over time, which is nice. But maybe it's because I've always been more of an empire builder in these games but the tech web, virtue system, and wide assortment of buildings and tile improvements make it feel like a completely new Civ to me. Still Civ, but a new experience.
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On October 31 2014 04:43 Sub40APM wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2014 22:36 maartendq wrote:On October 30 2014 05:01 Krohm wrote:On October 30 2014 03:54 Capped wrote:
AC is ridiculously old, is it really as deep as a modern Civ game? I doubt it tbh. I remember master of orion games being epic as fuq back then but they were pretty shallow in comparison.
EDIT: Not as old as i thought, but still! AC is the best TBS game I have ever played and probably will ever play. It still holds up really well compared to games today and it's still quite a complex game. The lore is so good in it as well. The factions have personalities and agendas that are believable. It's just such a good game, god I'm nerding out so hard right now thinking about it. But if you've never played Alpha Centauri I would highly recommend you buy it. You won't regret it as long as you like those kind of games. I remember playing AC when I was younger. Basically always picked the Spartan Federation and steamrolled across the map with a way superior military. yes, the ai is incompetent. That you could win with what was probably the second weakest faction just shows that many 'AC was the best' are just remembering the optionality (some of it was cool, raising/lowering water table/mountains was definitely the best, hard points on units is much more meh because 90% of the time you just go best things onto best chassis) the game provided but not the competent challenge of the ai.
The awesome part of the pre-Civ5 games, including AC, is being able to play them like a sandbox game regardless of victory conditions. Civ 5 places too much of an emphasis on managing victory conditions instead of managing your empire. I loved the ignore victory conditions and just build the biggest, baddest empire I could feel of the previous games.
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On October 31 2014 04:43 Sub40APM wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2014 22:36 maartendq wrote:On October 30 2014 05:01 Krohm wrote:On October 30 2014 03:54 Capped wrote:
AC is ridiculously old, is it really as deep as a modern Civ game? I doubt it tbh. I remember master of orion games being epic as fuq back then but they were pretty shallow in comparison.
EDIT: Not as old as i thought, but still! AC is the best TBS game I have ever played and probably will ever play. It still holds up really well compared to games today and it's still quite a complex game. The lore is so good in it as well. The factions have personalities and agendas that are believable. It's just such a good game, god I'm nerding out so hard right now thinking about it. But if you've never played Alpha Centauri I would highly recommend you buy it. You won't regret it as long as you like those kind of games. I remember playing AC when I was younger. Basically always picked the Spartan Federation and steamrolled across the map with a way superior military. yes, the ai is incompetent. That you could win with what was probably the second weakest faction just shows that many 'AC was the best' are just remembering the optionality (some of it was cool, raising/lowering water table/mountains was definitely the best, hard points on units is much more meh because 90% of the time you just go best things onto best chassis) the game provided but not the competent challenge of the ai.
Funny tho that the AI nowadays isn´t even remarkably smarter than the one of a 15 year old game, at least in my opinion.^^
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On October 31 2014 05:06 ZasZ. wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2014 04:41 Sub40APM wrote:
Things I'd like them to do to BE that wont require major coding:
ultrasonic fence is turned into a satellite, no immunity to convoys.
either battle suits costs float stone or more titanium because right now its the only affinity unit that is free of an affinity resource
maping script fixed up so there are less ravines, more areas for the ai to operate in
slavic federations satellite into free tech changed to something because between that and the free tech with the institute you have battle suits by turn 50.
faction colors made stronger -- right now almost all of them blend into the terrain. Agreed with pretty much all of these points, although I'm not sure changing the ultrasonic fence is the way to tone down trade routes. They need to be a) not as powerful and b) not so spammy (without mods). I kind of like that after an upgrade I no longer have to worry about random trade routes getting pillaged by aliens, but I see the merit in forcing people to actually protect their trade rather than getting a free pass. Perhaps if the number of routes is cut down I wouldn't mind having to babysit them so much. On that note, while I like the quest system associated with buildings, it would be nice if they tell you what each building leads to, quest wise. I didn't know that ultrasonic fences gave such an OP boost until I watched a Lets Play because I considered that building so useless I never bothered with it. I'm sure there will be mods that provide that information, but right now it's kind of a shot in the dark because the building you are getting is not the complete picture of the bonuses it provides. I'd be all for less canyons and impassable terrain, it just seems excessive at the moment and messes with the AI script. I also agree about faction colors, there are a few (ARC/Franco-Iberia/Kavithan and Brasil/Polystralia) that are not only too close to one another, but too close to the landscape, which always seems to be a shade of purple or green. Most of the complaints people have about the game are completely legitimate, but I still don't its fair to call it a "mod" for Civ 5. I'm enjoying the hell out of it so far, and even though its unfortunate I know that Firaxis will probably only make this game better over time, which is nice. But maybe it's because I've always been more of an empire builder in these games but the tech web, virtue system, and wide assortment of buildings and tile improvements make it feel like a completely new Civ to me. Still Civ, but a new experience.
The problem with ultra sonic fence is that it completely negates the aliens. When you take that fact and added it to the way health and trade routes work for now, the most 'optimized' build is to just spam cities 3 tiles apart a long a path that gives you access to the most resources and an ultra fence that makes your entire empire immune to aliens. And I believe this defeats the whole purpose of the aliens, they are less of a nuisance than barbarians in Civ were.
As the game is now, the fence is not only a no brainer but it negates an entire 'faction' that Firaxis purposely was building up. Just do an experiment where you never build a fence and you see that the challenge of the game is automatically higher. You either have to divert more hammers to troops early on -- slowing down your snow ball -- or you expand much more cautiously (which I think was the whole point of introducing the aliens) because you dont want them to be too hostile.
By making it a satellite you not only once again are given more choices instead of less -- do you build that or a miasma dispenser or something else crucial? -- but also its time limited so your not forever alien secure (although again, in late game that is negated by the fact that ai units dont scale. Imo it would be interesting to see aliens 'adapt' to human innovations too but I think the ai programming for that is way too sophisticated)
And ya, they have too many canyons/mountains and too much water on a pangea map. I'd like them to have admitted that their naval combat ai stinks -- it really does, especially with the way they choose to make ships the equvalent of Civ5 subs that get one shot -- and minimize the use of navies/leave navies to being an MP only thing where humans can human.
On October 31 2014 05:32 andrewlt wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2014 04:43 Sub40APM wrote:On October 30 2014 22:36 maartendq wrote:On October 30 2014 05:01 Krohm wrote:On October 30 2014 03:54 Capped wrote:
AC is ridiculously old, is it really as deep as a modern Civ game? I doubt it tbh. I remember master of orion games being epic as fuq back then but they were pretty shallow in comparison.
EDIT: Not as old as i thought, but still! AC is the best TBS game I have ever played and probably will ever play. It still holds up really well compared to games today and it's still quite a complex game. The lore is so good in it as well. The factions have personalities and agendas that are believable. It's just such a good game, god I'm nerding out so hard right now thinking about it. But if you've never played Alpha Centauri I would highly recommend you buy it. You won't regret it as long as you like those kind of games. I remember playing AC when I was younger. Basically always picked the Spartan Federation and steamrolled across the map with a way superior military. yes, the ai is incompetent. That you could win with what was probably the second weakest faction just shows that many 'AC was the best' are just remembering the optionality (some of it was cool, raising/lowering water table/mountains was definitely the best, hard points on units is much more meh because 90% of the time you just go best things onto best chassis) the game provided but not the competent challenge of the ai. The awesome part of the pre-Civ5 games, including AC, is being able to play them like a sandbox game regardless of victory conditions. Civ 5 places too much of an emphasis on managing victory conditions instead of managing your empire. I loved the ignore victory conditions and just build the biggest, baddest empire I could feel of the previous games.
Sounds like you are upset that the game is more challenging. Just play on a lower difficulty and you can have the biggest baddest sandbox of them all.
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On October 31 2014 05:32 andrewlt wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2014 04:43 Sub40APM wrote:On October 30 2014 22:36 maartendq wrote:On October 30 2014 05:01 Krohm wrote:On October 30 2014 03:54 Capped wrote:
AC is ridiculously old, is it really as deep as a modern Civ game? I doubt it tbh. I remember master of orion games being epic as fuq back then but they were pretty shallow in comparison.
EDIT: Not as old as i thought, but still! AC is the best TBS game I have ever played and probably will ever play. It still holds up really well compared to games today and it's still quite a complex game. The lore is so good in it as well. The factions have personalities and agendas that are believable. It's just such a good game, god I'm nerding out so hard right now thinking about it. But if you've never played Alpha Centauri I would highly recommend you buy it. You won't regret it as long as you like those kind of games. I remember playing AC when I was younger. Basically always picked the Spartan Federation and steamrolled across the map with a way superior military. yes, the ai is incompetent. That you could win with what was probably the second weakest faction just shows that many 'AC was the best' are just remembering the optionality (some of it was cool, raising/lowering water table/mountains was definitely the best, hard points on units is much more meh because 90% of the time you just go best things onto best chassis) the game provided but not the competent challenge of the ai. The awesome part of the pre-Civ5 games, including AC, is being able to play them like a sandbox game regardless of victory conditions. Civ 5 places too much of an emphasis on managing victory conditions instead of managing your empire. I loved the ignore victory conditions and just build the biggest, baddest empire I could feel of the previous games.
You can turn off all the victory conditions in Civ V and BE, too. In BE there is an "avanced" tab in the upper right corner.
Gameplay wise I don't understand how you're limited to do what you want. The AI in both games is so horribly bad at war that even with a little military you can basically fend off all of them or pay them off and do what you want.
Maybe with the exception of spawning between Shaka and Alexander on Deity, which would be a great time to restart the game :x
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On October 31 2014 07:54 Nyxisto wrote:
You can turn off all the victory conditions in Civ V and BE, too. In BE there is an "avanced" tab in the upper right corner.
Everyone needs to know about the advanced tab so they can turn off the bullshit staggered AI starts.
Its hard enough for the AI to win already without coming in later lol.
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On October 31 2014 07:57 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2014 07:54 Nyxisto wrote:
You can turn off all the victory conditions in Civ V and BE, too. In BE there is an "avanced" tab in the upper right corner. Everyone needs to know about the advanced tab so they can turn off the bullshit staggered AI starts. Its hard enough for the AI to win already without coming in later lol.
I always wonder when i read something like this, if those people are really smart enough on their own game or are just following "builds" in the new civ games.
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Seriously? That's the ending screen? You just give me one narrated text, one picture, and a button to go to the main menu? Really? Trade routes are too op and too annoying, why do i have to micro manage them so much? The AI is really passive and compared to other civs, they put way too little emphasis on battle, i had cornered a faction pretty early, they had only their capital. They were unable to eliminate the Xenos to actually expand away from me and wenn i decided to attack them, they had 3 units. On second highest difficulty.
In theory, that game could be pretty good, the different playstyles through the 3 different techs makes it really interesting, but there are so many little things that just don't make sense. It's like they never played singleplayer. For instance, the harmony winning condition is supposed to attract the AI to stomp you, right? It does not. Why does the AI not build the natural wonder if they have the technology? Grr. Whatever, 2 days of playing, one victory, i guess i need a new game.
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Kinda newb question but space key used to end the turn in previous civs, right?
At least I remember so, now I have to manually press the end turn button in the bottom right with my mouse every-single-turn.
Can I map it on space again somehow?
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On October 31 2014 21:28 Steveling wrote:
Kinda newb question but space key used to end the turn in previous civs, right?
At least I remember so, now I have to manually press the end turn button in the bottom right with my mouse every-single-turn.
Can I map it on space again somehow?
It's mapped to the enter key, and no i haven't found out how to change the keybindings so far.
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Ended up going back and playing Civ 5 + DLC's instead of continuing BE. I really dislike the aesthetics and it feels too barebones, also I wonder wtf is up with both Endless Legend and BE having quests as a feature at the same time.
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I've been playing a bit. It feels like Supremacy is the way to go, not to mention it feels nice and Protoss-y :3 .
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I feel like Purity might be the strongest tree if you're going for a domination victory. The Battlesuit is a ridiculously strong unit. And the extra gene health thingy that you get builds really fast.
Apart from the game play I think they really need to make the cities look more diverse. In Civ V nearly every civ had their own unique architecture. In BE it looks really silly if you fight against someone and both armies and cities look exactly the same. It really takes a lot of the Civ atmosphere away.
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EPT
