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United Kingdom20343 Posts
The time between BT and Sunwell was like 11 months.
As said, everyone was progressing and doing other raid content. Blizzard skips you ahead into the latest tier now, making the previous one trivial every time they release one - which is not so bad if they're releasing a new tier in 4 to 7 months but is terrible if they go for 14. Having the previous tier act as an easy mode for those with less skill and time investment or people who just want to be amused was always a good thing - and there's a huge difference between an easier mode and something that's trivial. With a year and a scaling buff like ICC or a mechanic of power progression such as the ring, +10ilvls from valor etc, it lets people progress through content and then difficulties more naturally over time. Like the top 0.3% of guilds might kill mythic archi, then +10ilvls come in and within a month or two, it's more like the top 1%. Normal/heroic would get cleared by way more people.
That content gap in TBC affected raiders who were busy anyway with content that was hard and paced for the long term - like 90% of the population in TBC was doing other stuff - the stuff like world content, professions, dungeons, pvp (they had just added the honor system, the arena system, eye of the storm and some stuff like halaa) - that WOD kinda dropped the ball on.
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+ Show Spoiler +I'm not very happy with a 1.5 year expansion like this, nothing personal against WOD but it doesn't seem beneficial. We go 14 months in order to get a new expansion, then get a single patch 6 months later and the 1 year wait begins again. I don't think the blizzard team had adequate time to build up Draenor into a decent continent and i think that even if they could, it wouldn't be a worthwhile effort because it would be abandoned before getting proper usage out of it for the next expansion.
WOTLK content pacing seemed ideal to me. Rehashed Naxxramas, but like 98% of people hadn't seen it before. That was alright, i can see why some people didn't like it but it fit the theme and it worked. OS and EOTS plus freeloot VOA released alongside it. Like 6 months later, Ulduar. One of the best raids of all time. 7-8 months after that, not only have we been through TOTC but ICC and three of the greatest 5-mans had also been added. It took a year to get to Cataclysm but ICC was paced out and Ruby sanctum was added - it could have been better, but it wasn't -that- bad when compared to other ways that it could have been.
It's a 1 year wait at the end of a long, 4-tier expansion; better than a 1 year wait at what feels like the middle of an expansion because it's only 2-tier. Like damn - we're not even halfway through the timeline for Hellfire Citadel yet.
tl;dr I prefer a fleshed out expansion that lasts 2 years with 3-4 tiers and good world/dungeon/profession content to one that lasts 1.5 years with 2 tiers and misses out on a lot of that other stuff.
Sitting for 12 months instead of 6 every second tier makes all the difference. If Legion was launching next month and WOD was developed differently, stuff would have been sweet but that's not what happened and i don't think that it was ever realistic to expect it to happen
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What your not saying about TBC is that the game release with 2 tiers available from the start and released the 3e tier after 6 months and then a 4th after 11 months (with a 10man in between).
In total time TBC's pacing is great. It was just that tier 4 and 5 were released from the start.
And again, those saying that progressive tiers is great were not their for the horrible situation that was tier 5 > tier 6 where the top guilds killed of weaker guilds almost weekly in their search for attuned raiders because no one wanted to do Kael and Vashj for the 100x time.
That said.
Yes WoD timing is an utter failure. 2 tiers to bring us a faster expansion and we still get a year of HFC now...
The only reason I'm still subbed is because I pay for it by logging in twice a day for a few minutes.
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United Kingdom20343 Posts
TBC was in development for ages, i think WOTLK is the better benchmark - that's also the expansion that brought raiding to the majority
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United Kingdom31255 Posts
On November 07 2015 20:18 Cyro wrote:
TBC was in development for ages, i think WOTLK is the better benchmark - that's also the expansion that brought raiding to the majority
Even WOTLK had some attunement though which is what we really need to go back to
Malygos required you to beat Naxx
Trial of grand crusader HC required Togc normal and had weekly attempt limits
Algalon required beating heroic ulduar (basically) and had weekly attempts
Hell even ICC had weekly dungeon quests like the Flesh golem boss etc etc to keep things interesting
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United Kingdom20343 Posts
algalon was actually timed i think
limited attempts is terrible IMO; i don't think it should come back. Of far greater concern is the requirement to maintain multiple characters and abuse split-raid clearing to get more gear on mains around the start of a new tier. Several of the guilds above us on my server will not even let you apply unless you do this and it's a much more toxic thing for the game IMO
I think gating like naxx before EOE is fine; it's easier to justify good loot on that standalone boss then
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On November 07 2015 23:20 Cyro wrote:
algalon was actually timed i think
limited attempts is terrible IMO; i don't think it should come back. Of far greater concern is the requirement to maintain multiple characters and abuse split-raid clearing to get more gear on mains around the start of a new tier. Several of the guilds above us on my server will not even let you apply unless you do this and it's a much more toxic thing for the game IMO
I think gating like naxx before EOE is fine; it's easier to justify good loot on that standalone boss then
Algalon was indeed time limited not attempts. And every HC raid required you to clear normal once prior to WoD.
Split runs are indeed a pain but they are hard to limit. The only real way I can see to fix it would be to force Personal Loot. It would kill gear funneling tho guilds would still run multiple instances to gear multiple characters so they can class stack.
I have no problem with requiring Normal to be cleared before doing HC but it would mean Blizzard would need to do a better job of balancing final bosses. the final bosses in WoD (atleast on normal) have been to difficult compared to early HC bosses.
Actual attunments like we had with Mount Hyjal/Black Temple are hopefully never coming back. Those who advocate for them did not see the damage they did to the community.
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can someone explain who is the guy of the cinematic? and a little of lore context if possible
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On November 07 2015 23:48 Topin wrote:
can someone explain who is the guy of the cinematic? and a little of lore context if possible
King Varian
http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Varian_Wrynn
King of Stormwind (and defacto leader of the Alliance). Hates Orcs. Son (who he is writing) showed him everyone can be good.
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United Kingdom31255 Posts
On November 07 2015 23:37 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2015 23:20 Cyro wrote:
algalon was actually timed i think
limited attempts is terrible IMO; i don't think it should come back. Of far greater concern is the requirement to maintain multiple characters and abuse split-raid clearing to get more gear on mains around the start of a new tier. Several of the guilds above us on my server will not even let you apply unless you do this and it's a much more toxic thing for the game IMO
I think gating like naxx before EOE is fine; it's easier to justify good loot on that standalone boss then Algalon was indeed time limited not attempts. And every HC raid required you to clear normal once prior to WoD. Split runs are indeed a pain but they are hard to limit. The only real way I can see to fix it would be to force Personal Loot. It would kill gear funneling tho guilds would still run multiple instances to gear multiple characters so they can class stack. I have no problem with requiring Normal to be cleared before doing HC but it would mean Blizzard would need to do a better job of balancing final bosses. the final bosses in WoD (atleast on normal) have been to difficult compared to early HC bosses. Actual attunments like we had with Mount Hyjal/Black Temple are hopefully never coming back. Those who advocate for them did not see the damage they did to the community.
I was in a top guild during BT before SWP came out and I saw the damage however stuff like Kara attunement / TK attunement was actually really cool and wasn't a complete ass to do. Hyjal attunement / SSC attunement sucked because it literally just required you doing the previous raid's last bosses which isn't how it should be done IMO. That said being an Alliance Shaman in the best guild meant I really did have my pick of guilds during that time so I didn't see the damage as badly as those further down might have.
Black Temple attunement wasn't even that bad really since most guilds were doing Hyjal anyhow.
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I didnt found anything about making the classes more different to each other. And not much about the pvp aspect.
Those things are what would make me play WoW. I am so tired of a really crap pvp, while the classes are pretty dull. They are so alike.
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On November 08 2015 00:10 Foxxan wrote:
I didnt found anything about making the classes more different to each other. And not much about the pvp aspect.
Those things are what would make me play WoW. I am so tired of a really crap pvp, while the classes are pretty dull. They are so alike.
MMO-C mentioned detailed class info was coming starting sunday so maybe it will have what your looking for. I expect classes to still be same-y because if classes are to different then X will be much better then Y and class stacking becomes an increasing issue.
Edit:Read it wrong. blog posts starting from sunday with class info.
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United Kingdom20343 Posts
There's a healthy medium between "EVERYONE MUST HAVE KILLED THE LAST BOSS OF ALL PREVIOUS RAIDS TO ENTER" and "That one guy out of 28 in our roster has killed gorefiend 4 times, lets have him skip us to the upper citadel"
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United Kingdom31255 Posts
On November 08 2015 00:26 Cyro wrote:
There's a healthy medium between "EVERYONE MUST HAVE KILLED THE LAST BOSS OF ALL PREVIOUS RAIDS TO ENTER" and "That one guy out of 28 in our roster has killed gorefiend 4 times, lets have him skip us to the upper citadel"
Well what BT attunement required the 2nd boss in SSC (Okay it was like the 5th but you could skip to him easy), Alar in TK and 1st boss of Hyjal along with Heroic Arcatraz. Thats not too much of an ask for the last raid of the expansion (Until SWP hit that is). Like I think thats a healthy requirement if you forget about Hyjal's dumb attunement.
Hyjal requiring both Vashj and Keal Thas can suck a dick though
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World of Warcraft: Legion - Game Systems Panel starting now
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United Kingdom20343 Posts
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Rogue class halls in Dalaran Sewers pls.
make my day blizzard
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United Kingdom20343 Posts
^Do you want them to be in the sewers or not in the sewers?
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On November 08 2015 06:25 Cyro wrote:
^Do you want them to be in the sewers or not in the sewers?
lol, i couldn't give a shit. But i want it to happen after hearing and reading all the mad rogues talking about it when the rumor came after gamescom that they'd have class halls in the sewers. 8)
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United Kingdom20343 Posts
I think blizz said they were going to put them in sewer, not just rumor 
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Lots of revamping in every class. "Hundreds of new talents in legion"
Woop!
On November 08 2015 06:42 Cyro wrote:I think blizz said they were going to put them in sewer, not just rumor
Yeah, but they weren't "sure" about it yet afaik. And after the reddit/forum shitstorm about all of it, i'd change my mind if i were blizzard. People hated the idea. lol
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EPT![[image loading]](http://media.mmo-champion.com/images/news/2015/november/WoWGSP009.jpg)
