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On October 05 2014 04:16 digmouse wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2014 03:07 deth2munkies wrote:On October 05 2014 02:20 Gorsameth wrote:On October 05 2014 02:15 deth2munkies wrote:On October 05 2014 02:10 Gorsameth wrote:On October 05 2014 01:51 deth2munkies wrote:
I think the biggest thing they could do for gear, if they really want to make primary stats matter, is to make different skills that are essential to the class benefit in certain ways by normally "off" spec stats (and obviously remove the WoD "everything has every stat" system). For instance, Int decreases the cast time and increases crit chance of Aimed Shot, or Agi decreases the CD of Mortal Strike, or something like that.
Just make it more interesting and make there tradeoffs that allow for sidegrades to actually exist and for there to be a lot more tension that goes into choosing what kinds of gear you use. As of right now, there's a ton of completely worthless gear, like the caster trinket off Malkorok and the 2her off Thok (for everyone except ret pallies), that's utterly outclassed in its slot by something from the same raid tier that just has better stats on it. This is even worse in WoD where the primary stats no longer matter and you just get the item with the secondary stats that benefit the class/spec you are most.
Making there be a meaningful choice beyond haste breakpoints and then stacking crit/mastery/multistrike/whatever is the thing that needs to be done before any scaling discussion can occur, because otherwise scaling is pointless. First off, outside of a few corner cases Haste breakpoints no long exist in 6.0 secondly your idea is impossible to balance. some stat X will always be the best and so everyone still stack X anyway. Wow's item system is far from ideal but your not going to create an interesting and balanced system because that's near impossible, something will always be the best and that something will then get stacked as much as possible. Third, primary stats still very much matter. 8 out of 16 pieces have dual stats (ignoring cloth which is ofc only int). the rest is still very much the same as it is now. The WoD model is a giant game of chance where your going to end up waiting for that 1 piece with your best secondary stats to roll all the sweet tertiary stuff that you want and until then you use a slightly inferior piece. I'm not super enthusiastic about that system. I liked the pre-MoP gearing with no bullshit random stuff outside of which item dropped but I also realize I cant come up with a system that does work without major downsides while keeping people on the gear treadmill. If you do have that solution I suggest you apply with it to Blizzard, they will most likely hire you on the spot. It doesn't matter if something's the "theoretical best" so long as the other options are significantly close and, depending on what gear you see drop, you aren't utterly hamstrung by equipping the wrong items. In MoP, missing your haste breakpoint was like a 10% drop in DPS for some classes. Not being hit capped was even worse. Ideally, such a system would have the "theoretical best" be a mix of stats that were impossible to get, and so the "actual best" had several stat combinations very close together. I actually did study game design and applied to a game design grad school at one point, but through my interactions I've found that I'm really good at big picture and bad at minutiae that aren't directly iterative. That's why I'm in law, I can have a big picture idea in law, and find precedent to iterate off of to make that point, not always something you can do in game design. Which is why haste breakpoints are gone and hit is gone. Again stats can be close all they want, something will be best and the min-max crowd will flock to it. then another large part will blindly copy the min-max lists with no idea why and a 3e group will not give a shit because they don't know better. This has always been the case and will always be the case. Here's the problem with WoD though: with all that gone, every class/spec is literally "Stack X stat, then Y stat, other stats suck". There needs to be tension and options that affect your playstyle to make gear interesting. Now, it's just not. Gear is just an ilvl number and 1 secondary stat and nothing more. It's just incredibly boring. Instead, having like 4 breakpoints that are impossible to all get at the same time and all have roughly the same effect on your DPS but slightly alter how your rotation works is much more interesting. But that would also be extremely hard to balance/tune given how many different scenarios to consider and how many classes/specs we have to interact with, and no matter what people will always find the best combination and stack towards that. That would be indeed interesting in early days when people are still leveling up their gear and doing progression, but for the long term endgame things are very likely to end up the same.
If you stop balancing around skill as well as gear level it gets easier. MoP was balanced around everyone of similar skill level doing similar damage, if you just let the shitty players do a lot less than the decent-good players, it gets easier to balance gear.
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On October 05 2014 04:43 deth2munkies wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2014 04:16 digmouse wrote:On October 05 2014 03:07 deth2munkies wrote:On October 05 2014 02:20 Gorsameth wrote:On October 05 2014 02:15 deth2munkies wrote:On October 05 2014 02:10 Gorsameth wrote:On October 05 2014 01:51 deth2munkies wrote:
I think the biggest thing they could do for gear, if they really want to make primary stats matter, is to make different skills that are essential to the class benefit in certain ways by normally "off" spec stats (and obviously remove the WoD "everything has every stat" system). For instance, Int decreases the cast time and increases crit chance of Aimed Shot, or Agi decreases the CD of Mortal Strike, or something like that.
Just make it more interesting and make there tradeoffs that allow for sidegrades to actually exist and for there to be a lot more tension that goes into choosing what kinds of gear you use. As of right now, there's a ton of completely worthless gear, like the caster trinket off Malkorok and the 2her off Thok (for everyone except ret pallies), that's utterly outclassed in its slot by something from the same raid tier that just has better stats on it. This is even worse in WoD where the primary stats no longer matter and you just get the item with the secondary stats that benefit the class/spec you are most.
Making there be a meaningful choice beyond haste breakpoints and then stacking crit/mastery/multistrike/whatever is the thing that needs to be done before any scaling discussion can occur, because otherwise scaling is pointless. First off, outside of a few corner cases Haste breakpoints no long exist in 6.0 secondly your idea is impossible to balance. some stat X will always be the best and so everyone still stack X anyway. Wow's item system is far from ideal but your not going to create an interesting and balanced system because that's near impossible, something will always be the best and that something will then get stacked as much as possible. Third, primary stats still very much matter. 8 out of 16 pieces have dual stats (ignoring cloth which is ofc only int). the rest is still very much the same as it is now. The WoD model is a giant game of chance where your going to end up waiting for that 1 piece with your best secondary stats to roll all the sweet tertiary stuff that you want and until then you use a slightly inferior piece. I'm not super enthusiastic about that system. I liked the pre-MoP gearing with no bullshit random stuff outside of which item dropped but I also realize I cant come up with a system that does work without major downsides while keeping people on the gear treadmill. If you do have that solution I suggest you apply with it to Blizzard, they will most likely hire you on the spot. It doesn't matter if something's the "theoretical best" so long as the other options are significantly close and, depending on what gear you see drop, you aren't utterly hamstrung by equipping the wrong items. In MoP, missing your haste breakpoint was like a 10% drop in DPS for some classes. Not being hit capped was even worse. Ideally, such a system would have the "theoretical best" be a mix of stats that were impossible to get, and so the "actual best" had several stat combinations very close together. I actually did study game design and applied to a game design grad school at one point, but through my interactions I've found that I'm really good at big picture and bad at minutiae that aren't directly iterative. That's why I'm in law, I can have a big picture idea in law, and find precedent to iterate off of to make that point, not always something you can do in game design. Which is why haste breakpoints are gone and hit is gone. Again stats can be close all they want, something will be best and the min-max crowd will flock to it. then another large part will blindly copy the min-max lists with no idea why and a 3e group will not give a shit because they don't know better. This has always been the case and will always be the case. Here's the problem with WoD though: with all that gone, every class/spec is literally "Stack X stat, then Y stat, other stats suck". There needs to be tension and options that affect your playstyle to make gear interesting. Now, it's just not. Gear is just an ilvl number and 1 secondary stat and nothing more. It's just incredibly boring. Instead, having like 4 breakpoints that are impossible to all get at the same time and all have roughly the same effect on your DPS but slightly alter how your rotation works is much more interesting. But that would also be extremely hard to balance/tune given how many different scenarios to consider and how many classes/specs we have to interact with, and no matter what people will always find the best combination and stack towards that. That would be indeed interesting in early days when people are still leveling up their gear and doing progression, but for the long term endgame things are very likely to end up the same. If you stop balancing around skill as well as gear level it gets easier. MoP was balanced around everyone of similar skill level doing similar damage, if you just let the shitty players do a lot less than the decent-good players, it gets easier to balance gear.
that just makes no sense lol
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YOU GUYS ARE OVERLOOKING ONE KEY THING:
PEOPLE THAT PLAY THIS GAME THESE DAYS ARE FUCKING TERRIBLE.
I'm against the class/skill/talent homogenization, and the watering down of stats/gear... but honestly they'd lose half their playerbase overnight if they didn't. Could you imagine players these days trying to figure out something like Armor Penetration? These morons can't even understand primary stats without an addon or website telling them everything. Same issue with crowd control (LOL, YOU MEAN I NEED TO INTERRUPT ON GARROSH? HOW DO I DO THAT?).
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On October 05 2014 05:39 Serejai wrote:
YOU GUYS ARE OVERLOOKING ONE KEY THING:
PEOPLE THAT PLAY THIS GAME THESE DAYS ARE FUCKING TERRIBLE.
I'm against the class/skill/talent homogenization, and the watering down of stats/gear... but honestly they'd lose half their playerbase overnight if they didn't. Could you imagine players these days trying to figure out something like Armor Penetration? These morons can't even understand primary stats without an addon or website telling them everything. Same issue with crowd control (LOL, YOU MEAN I NEED TO INTERRUPT ON GARROSH? HOW DO I DO THAT?).
newsflash, they are as shit as they have always been.
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On October 05 2014 05:29 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2014 04:43 deth2munkies wrote:On October 05 2014 04:16 digmouse wrote:On October 05 2014 03:07 deth2munkies wrote:On October 05 2014 02:20 Gorsameth wrote:On October 05 2014 02:15 deth2munkies wrote:On October 05 2014 02:10 Gorsameth wrote:On October 05 2014 01:51 deth2munkies wrote:
I think the biggest thing they could do for gear, if they really want to make primary stats matter, is to make different skills that are essential to the class benefit in certain ways by normally "off" spec stats (and obviously remove the WoD "everything has every stat" system). For instance, Int decreases the cast time and increases crit chance of Aimed Shot, or Agi decreases the CD of Mortal Strike, or something like that.
Just make it more interesting and make there tradeoffs that allow for sidegrades to actually exist and for there to be a lot more tension that goes into choosing what kinds of gear you use. As of right now, there's a ton of completely worthless gear, like the caster trinket off Malkorok and the 2her off Thok (for everyone except ret pallies), that's utterly outclassed in its slot by something from the same raid tier that just has better stats on it. This is even worse in WoD where the primary stats no longer matter and you just get the item with the secondary stats that benefit the class/spec you are most.
Making there be a meaningful choice beyond haste breakpoints and then stacking crit/mastery/multistrike/whatever is the thing that needs to be done before any scaling discussion can occur, because otherwise scaling is pointless. First off, outside of a few corner cases Haste breakpoints no long exist in 6.0 secondly your idea is impossible to balance. some stat X will always be the best and so everyone still stack X anyway. Wow's item system is far from ideal but your not going to create an interesting and balanced system because that's near impossible, something will always be the best and that something will then get stacked as much as possible. Third, primary stats still very much matter. 8 out of 16 pieces have dual stats (ignoring cloth which is ofc only int). the rest is still very much the same as it is now. The WoD model is a giant game of chance where your going to end up waiting for that 1 piece with your best secondary stats to roll all the sweet tertiary stuff that you want and until then you use a slightly inferior piece. I'm not super enthusiastic about that system. I liked the pre-MoP gearing with no bullshit random stuff outside of which item dropped but I also realize I cant come up with a system that does work without major downsides while keeping people on the gear treadmill. If you do have that solution I suggest you apply with it to Blizzard, they will most likely hire you on the spot. It doesn't matter if something's the "theoretical best" so long as the other options are significantly close and, depending on what gear you see drop, you aren't utterly hamstrung by equipping the wrong items. In MoP, missing your haste breakpoint was like a 10% drop in DPS for some classes. Not being hit capped was even worse. Ideally, such a system would have the "theoretical best" be a mix of stats that were impossible to get, and so the "actual best" had several stat combinations very close together. I actually did study game design and applied to a game design grad school at one point, but through my interactions I've found that I'm really good at big picture and bad at minutiae that aren't directly iterative. That's why I'm in law, I can have a big picture idea in law, and find precedent to iterate off of to make that point, not always something you can do in game design. Which is why haste breakpoints are gone and hit is gone. Again stats can be close all they want, something will be best and the min-max crowd will flock to it. then another large part will blindly copy the min-max lists with no idea why and a 3e group will not give a shit because they don't know better. This has always been the case and will always be the case. Here's the problem with WoD though: with all that gone, every class/spec is literally "Stack X stat, then Y stat, other stats suck". There needs to be tension and options that affect your playstyle to make gear interesting. Now, it's just not. Gear is just an ilvl number and 1 secondary stat and nothing more. It's just incredibly boring. Instead, having like 4 breakpoints that are impossible to all get at the same time and all have roughly the same effect on your DPS but slightly alter how your rotation works is much more interesting. But that would also be extremely hard to balance/tune given how many different scenarios to consider and how many classes/specs we have to interact with, and no matter what people will always find the best combination and stack towards that. That would be indeed interesting in early days when people are still leveling up their gear and doing progression, but for the long term endgame things are very likely to end up the same. If you stop balancing around skill as well as gear level it gets easier. MoP was balanced around everyone of similar skill level doing similar damage, if you just let the shitty players do a lot less than the decent-good players, it gets easier to balance gear. that just makes no sense lol
Sure it does: when balancing DPS numbers, they even out rotations and haste affected rotations such that if someone fucks up X% of the time, they do roughly the same damage as other classes/specs who fuck up X% of the time. Say, as above, Agi lowers the MS CD, and a warrior who gears for Agi above mastery or w/e, has the same ilvl as someone who doesn't, has a harder rotation that they had to choose because of their Agi stacking, but does a lot more damage than someone without Agi if they play well, but significantly less if they do poorly.
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On October 05 2014 06:02 deth2munkies wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2014 05:29 Gorsameth wrote:On October 05 2014 04:43 deth2munkies wrote:On October 05 2014 04:16 digmouse wrote:On October 05 2014 03:07 deth2munkies wrote:On October 05 2014 02:20 Gorsameth wrote:On October 05 2014 02:15 deth2munkies wrote:On October 05 2014 02:10 Gorsameth wrote:On October 05 2014 01:51 deth2munkies wrote:
I think the biggest thing they could do for gear, if they really want to make primary stats matter, is to make different skills that are essential to the class benefit in certain ways by normally "off" spec stats (and obviously remove the WoD "everything has every stat" system). For instance, Int decreases the cast time and increases crit chance of Aimed Shot, or Agi decreases the CD of Mortal Strike, or something like that.
Just make it more interesting and make there tradeoffs that allow for sidegrades to actually exist and for there to be a lot more tension that goes into choosing what kinds of gear you use. As of right now, there's a ton of completely worthless gear, like the caster trinket off Malkorok and the 2her off Thok (for everyone except ret pallies), that's utterly outclassed in its slot by something from the same raid tier that just has better stats on it. This is even worse in WoD where the primary stats no longer matter and you just get the item with the secondary stats that benefit the class/spec you are most.
Making there be a meaningful choice beyond haste breakpoints and then stacking crit/mastery/multistrike/whatever is the thing that needs to be done before any scaling discussion can occur, because otherwise scaling is pointless. First off, outside of a few corner cases Haste breakpoints no long exist in 6.0 secondly your idea is impossible to balance. some stat X will always be the best and so everyone still stack X anyway. Wow's item system is far from ideal but your not going to create an interesting and balanced system because that's near impossible, something will always be the best and that something will then get stacked as much as possible. Third, primary stats still very much matter. 8 out of 16 pieces have dual stats (ignoring cloth which is ofc only int). the rest is still very much the same as it is now. The WoD model is a giant game of chance where your going to end up waiting for that 1 piece with your best secondary stats to roll all the sweet tertiary stuff that you want and until then you use a slightly inferior piece. I'm not super enthusiastic about that system. I liked the pre-MoP gearing with no bullshit random stuff outside of which item dropped but I also realize I cant come up with a system that does work without major downsides while keeping people on the gear treadmill. If you do have that solution I suggest you apply with it to Blizzard, they will most likely hire you on the spot. It doesn't matter if something's the "theoretical best" so long as the other options are significantly close and, depending on what gear you see drop, you aren't utterly hamstrung by equipping the wrong items. In MoP, missing your haste breakpoint was like a 10% drop in DPS for some classes. Not being hit capped was even worse. Ideally, such a system would have the "theoretical best" be a mix of stats that were impossible to get, and so the "actual best" had several stat combinations very close together. I actually did study game design and applied to a game design grad school at one point, but through my interactions I've found that I'm really good at big picture and bad at minutiae that aren't directly iterative. That's why I'm in law, I can have a big picture idea in law, and find precedent to iterate off of to make that point, not always something you can do in game design. Which is why haste breakpoints are gone and hit is gone. Again stats can be close all they want, something will be best and the min-max crowd will flock to it. then another large part will blindly copy the min-max lists with no idea why and a 3e group will not give a shit because they don't know better. This has always been the case and will always be the case. Here's the problem with WoD though: with all that gone, every class/spec is literally "Stack X stat, then Y stat, other stats suck". There needs to be tension and options that affect your playstyle to make gear interesting. Now, it's just not. Gear is just an ilvl number and 1 secondary stat and nothing more. It's just incredibly boring. Instead, having like 4 breakpoints that are impossible to all get at the same time and all have roughly the same effect on your DPS but slightly alter how your rotation works is much more interesting. But that would also be extremely hard to balance/tune given how many different scenarios to consider and how many classes/specs we have to interact with, and no matter what people will always find the best combination and stack towards that. That would be indeed interesting in early days when people are still leveling up their gear and doing progression, but for the long term endgame things are very likely to end up the same. If you stop balancing around skill as well as gear level it gets easier. MoP was balanced around everyone of similar skill level doing similar damage, if you just let the shitty players do a lot less than the decent-good players, it gets easier to balance gear. that just makes no sense lol Sure it does: when balancing DPS numbers, they even out rotations and haste affected rotations such that if someone fucks up X% of the time, they do roughly the same damage as other classes/specs who fuck up X% of the time. Say, as above, Agi lowers the MS CD, and a warrior who gears for Agi above mastery or w/e, has the same ilvl as someone who doesn't, has a harder rotation that they had to choose because of their Agi stacking, but does a lot more damage than someone without Agi if they play well, but significantly less if they do poorly.
Yeah see this is the point where I ignore you until you come up with something usable. All you say is "change stuff" and when asked what to change and how it would effect the game you just go "i only do the big picture, someone else can balance it". No. just no.
This conversation is over.
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On October 05 2014 06:08 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2014 06:02 deth2munkies wrote:On October 05 2014 05:29 Gorsameth wrote:On October 05 2014 04:43 deth2munkies wrote:On October 05 2014 04:16 digmouse wrote:On October 05 2014 03:07 deth2munkies wrote:On October 05 2014 02:20 Gorsameth wrote:On October 05 2014 02:15 deth2munkies wrote:On October 05 2014 02:10 Gorsameth wrote:On October 05 2014 01:51 deth2munkies wrote:
I think the biggest thing they could do for gear, if they really want to make primary stats matter, is to make different skills that are essential to the class benefit in certain ways by normally "off" spec stats (and obviously remove the WoD "everything has every stat" system). For instance, Int decreases the cast time and increases crit chance of Aimed Shot, or Agi decreases the CD of Mortal Strike, or something like that.
Just make it more interesting and make there tradeoffs that allow for sidegrades to actually exist and for there to be a lot more tension that goes into choosing what kinds of gear you use. As of right now, there's a ton of completely worthless gear, like the caster trinket off Malkorok and the 2her off Thok (for everyone except ret pallies), that's utterly outclassed in its slot by something from the same raid tier that just has better stats on it. This is even worse in WoD where the primary stats no longer matter and you just get the item with the secondary stats that benefit the class/spec you are most.
Making there be a meaningful choice beyond haste breakpoints and then stacking crit/mastery/multistrike/whatever is the thing that needs to be done before any scaling discussion can occur, because otherwise scaling is pointless. First off, outside of a few corner cases Haste breakpoints no long exist in 6.0 secondly your idea is impossible to balance. some stat X will always be the best and so everyone still stack X anyway. Wow's item system is far from ideal but your not going to create an interesting and balanced system because that's near impossible, something will always be the best and that something will then get stacked as much as possible. Third, primary stats still very much matter. 8 out of 16 pieces have dual stats (ignoring cloth which is ofc only int). the rest is still very much the same as it is now. The WoD model is a giant game of chance where your going to end up waiting for that 1 piece with your best secondary stats to roll all the sweet tertiary stuff that you want and until then you use a slightly inferior piece. I'm not super enthusiastic about that system. I liked the pre-MoP gearing with no bullshit random stuff outside of which item dropped but I also realize I cant come up with a system that does work without major downsides while keeping people on the gear treadmill. If you do have that solution I suggest you apply with it to Blizzard, they will most likely hire you on the spot. It doesn't matter if something's the "theoretical best" so long as the other options are significantly close and, depending on what gear you see drop, you aren't utterly hamstrung by equipping the wrong items. In MoP, missing your haste breakpoint was like a 10% drop in DPS for some classes. Not being hit capped was even worse. Ideally, such a system would have the "theoretical best" be a mix of stats that were impossible to get, and so the "actual best" had several stat combinations very close together. I actually did study game design and applied to a game design grad school at one point, but through my interactions I've found that I'm really good at big picture and bad at minutiae that aren't directly iterative. That's why I'm in law, I can have a big picture idea in law, and find precedent to iterate off of to make that point, not always something you can do in game design. Which is why haste breakpoints are gone and hit is gone. Again stats can be close all they want, something will be best and the min-max crowd will flock to it. then another large part will blindly copy the min-max lists with no idea why and a 3e group will not give a shit because they don't know better. This has always been the case and will always be the case. Here's the problem with WoD though: with all that gone, every class/spec is literally "Stack X stat, then Y stat, other stats suck". There needs to be tension and options that affect your playstyle to make gear interesting. Now, it's just not. Gear is just an ilvl number and 1 secondary stat and nothing more. It's just incredibly boring. Instead, having like 4 breakpoints that are impossible to all get at the same time and all have roughly the same effect on your DPS but slightly alter how your rotation works is much more interesting. But that would also be extremely hard to balance/tune given how many different scenarios to consider and how many classes/specs we have to interact with, and no matter what people will always find the best combination and stack towards that. That would be indeed interesting in early days when people are still leveling up their gear and doing progression, but for the long term endgame things are very likely to end up the same. If you stop balancing around skill as well as gear level it gets easier. MoP was balanced around everyone of similar skill level doing similar damage, if you just let the shitty players do a lot less than the decent-good players, it gets easier to balance gear. that just makes no sense lol Sure it does: when balancing DPS numbers, they even out rotations and haste affected rotations such that if someone fucks up X% of the time, they do roughly the same damage as other classes/specs who fuck up X% of the time. Say, as above, Agi lowers the MS CD, and a warrior who gears for Agi above mastery or w/e, has the same ilvl as someone who doesn't, has a harder rotation that they had to choose because of their Agi stacking, but does a lot more damage than someone without Agi if they play well, but significantly less if they do poorly. Yeah see this is the point where I ignore you until you come up with something usable. All you say is "change stuff" and when asked what to change and how it would effect the game you just go "i only do the big picture, someone else can balance it". No. just no. This conversation is over.
I'm sorry you're ignoring what I'm saying. I already said what was changing, now I'm defending why that actually needs changing and ways to account for balance once it is changed. No, I'm not going to write up my ideal patch notes and crunch the numbers, that's not my job. All I'm saying is that something needs to change, this is a way I would like to see it done, end of story.
I'm sorry I can't give you a motherfucking design document for a suggestion on a random ass internet forum.
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Okay let's talk about Brawler's guild for a change. What do you guys think about the "new" brawler's guild which doesn't have a single new boss, just in a shuffled order and Hexos has been put to a card boss. Sure they said new bosses would be added in patches between tiers but personally I'm not too interested in doing the same bosses again from rank 1. Hexos wasn't even that hard, I only wish they'd put Disruptron back in and not as a card boss.
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On October 05 2014 18:26 DCRed wrote:
Okay let's talk about Brawler's guild for a change. What do you guys think about the "new" brawler's guild which doesn't have a single new boss, just in a shuffled order and Hexos has been put to a card boss. Sure they said new bosses would be added in patches between tiers but personally I'm not too interested in doing the same bosses again from rank 1. Hexos wasn't even that hard, I only wish they'd put Disruptron back in and not as a card boss.
Not much to say about it. Very disappointing.
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On October 04 2014 23:08 Teoita wrote:
Yes, very true. I still think that the main problem isn't item level per se, but the combination of that, lots of raiding tiers (lfr/norma/heroic/mythic is really pointless), hilariously OP trinkets and cloak, and reforge. Reforge alone is a huge culprit there for lots of classes imo.
The stat squish was done wierdly. All they was remove the insane power spike between expansions, while leaving intact the one that will happen for WoD as well as how insanely broken characters are pre-60. It's really silly to see lvl 50 alts doing as much dps as kara raiders during early tbc progression. They also have yet another power spike at the start of wod, which imo isn't that really necessary. I feel like they are still leaving room to do another squish again (like by adjusting lower level characters as well).
Last I heard, which was quite awhile ago, they were getting rid of reforge. While I like the idea of reforge, I'm also sick of juggling crap all around for every new piece of gear, so it's a welcome change overall.
I'm sure it'll go back to people only spending dkp on BiS gear, with other people like me not minding a smaller bump in power instead of waiting for the trinket that never drops, until only after you spend your dkp and put yourself at the back of the line (we use epgp btw, a more modern dkp system).
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On October 06 2014 05:35 Ansinjunger wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2014 23:08 Teoita wrote:
Yes, very true. I still think that the main problem isn't item level per se, but the combination of that, lots of raiding tiers (lfr/norma/heroic/mythic is really pointless), hilariously OP trinkets and cloak, and reforge. Reforge alone is a huge culprit there for lots of classes imo.
The stat squish was done wierdly. All they was remove the insane power spike between expansions, while leaving intact the one that will happen for WoD as well as how insanely broken characters are pre-60. It's really silly to see lvl 50 alts doing as much dps as kara raiders during early tbc progression. They also have yet another power spike at the start of wod, which imo isn't that really necessary. I feel like they are still leaving room to do another squish again (like by adjusting lower level characters as well). Last I heard, which was quite awhile ago, they were getting rid of reforge. While I like the idea of reforge, I'm also sick of juggling crap all around for every new piece of gear, so it's a welcome change overall. I'm sure it'll go back to people only spending dkp on BiS gear, with other people like me not minding a smaller bump in power instead of waiting for the trinket that never drops, until only after you spend your dkp and put yourself at the back of the line (we use epgp btw, a more modern dkp system).
reforge is indeed gone and tbh BiS will probably be a myth this expansion. To small chances to get that perfect piece.
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Italy12246 Posts
Meh, tertiary stats are pretty irrelevant. What else is there RNG wise other than that and warforged?
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On October 06 2014 05:39 Teoita wrote:
Meh, tertiary stats are pretty irrelevant. What else is there RNG wise other than that and warforged?
socket being a tertiary.
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Italy12246 Posts
Oh rofl, that's fucking stupid. Source?
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On October 06 2014 06:10 Teoita wrote:
Oh rofl, that's fucking stupid. Source?
Sorry i was slightly off
An item has fixed secondary stats (crit/haste/mastery)
It has a chance to have a tertiate stat
It has a chance to have a socket
It has a chance to be warforged.
Still it means there is so much rng thrown into the mix that you will be lucky to get a hand full of BiS pieces, nevermind a full BiS set.
Source The tertiary stats listed there have changed since but as far as i know the overall gear stat system is still accurate.
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On October 06 2014 06:59 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2014 06:10 Teoita wrote:
Oh rofl, that's fucking stupid. Source? Sorry i was slightly off An item has fixed secondary stats (crit/haste/mastery) It has a chance to have a tertiate stat It has a chance to have a socket It has a chance to be warforged. Still it means there is so much rng thrown into the mix that you will be lucky to get a hand full of BiS pieces, nevermind a full BiS set. Source The tertiary stats listed there have changed since but as far as i know the overall gear stat system is still accurate.
You must be joking, this is like diablo 3 now rofl
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It actually is basically diablo 3 loot haha
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On October 06 2014 06:59 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2014 06:10 Teoita wrote:
Oh rofl, that's fucking stupid. Source? Sorry i was slightly off An item has fixed secondary stats (crit/haste/mastery) It has a chance to have a tertiate stat It has a chance to have a socket It has a chance to be warforged. Still it means there is so much rng thrown into the mix that you will be lucky to get a hand full of BiS pieces, nevermind a full BiS set. Source The tertiary stats listed there have changed since but as far as i know the overall gear stat system is still accurate.
That's only some bullshit for pve players, right ?
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On October 06 2014 14:39 Godwrath wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2014 06:59 Gorsameth wrote:On October 06 2014 06:10 Teoita wrote:
Oh rofl, that's fucking stupid. Source? Sorry i was slightly off An item has fixed secondary stats (crit/haste/mastery) It has a chance to have a tertiate stat It has a chance to have a socket It has a chance to be warforged. Still it means there is so much rng thrown into the mix that you will be lucky to get a hand full of BiS pieces, nevermind a full BiS set. Source The tertiary stats listed there have changed since but as far as i know the overall gear stat system is still accurate. That's only some bullshit for pve players, right ?
rofl, it almost certainly is, but with the way blizzard has degraded arena post wrath I really wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't haha
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EPT
