EPTIt's still the best RTS ever made.
Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne - Page 58
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jeeeeohn
United States1343 Posts
It's still the best RTS ever made. | ||
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Nickemwit
United States253 Posts
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404AlphaSquad
839 Posts
On March 25 2015 05:15 TheYango wrote: I saw that, unit veto still seems really, really stupid to me. I saw that too. I like Random Heroes mod more  What I dont like about his approach is that he wants to create a constantly shifting meta, but all it does is limiting the players options imo. Sure if you veto different units/heros the game will look different every time, but within the game the options for a player are more limited. | ||
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AssyrianKing
Australia2111 Posts
On March 25 2015 06:42 jeeeeohn wrote: I'm playing through the campaign again for like the millionth time. It's still the best RTS ever made. On March 22 2015 14:04 AssyrianKing wrote: Just played the custom campaign, "Lord of the Clans" and it was pretty good nice :D Here is a like for some recommended ones http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/589475-/55648085 I think there is more on the hiveworkshop website Ill just re-quote this incase nobody noticed it because of all the arguing going on LOL :D DUUUDE :D | ||
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3point14
Germany890 Posts
On March 24 2015 23:41 lestye wrote: + Show Spoiler + On March 24 2015 19:50 JieXian wrote: I understand where you're coming from. Most people suck at everything, but maybe RTS feels harder because it is more apparent when we are bad at it (especially when we see how fast the pros play). But it's a fact that none of us "great RTS people" can win a dota or CS tournament just like that. I'm only agreeing with you based on my experience with my friends when I was younger, who mainly played custom games and dota. When I was under 10 I didn't feel any difference between playing BW, Diablo, SF2 or Quake. They were all fun games to me and I cannot relate to that problem as a casual gamer. Now that I understand more and take competitive games more seriously they are all challenging in their own way. It was really strange, because when grey goo came out, as well as like, in RTS discussion reddit, AND EVEN and EVEn the "future of rts" thread on TL there are people who say games like Brood War and SC2 aren't real strategy games because it requires so much speed and in their mind, not much strategy. Of course you and I know thats bullshit, but people actually believe that, and in games like RTS and Quake/UT based games, because like you said, the skill gap is VERY apparent. Casuals don't like that and casuals are super important nowadays when it comes to the healthiness of the professional scenes in games. ON A LIGHTER NOTE, The WC3 Models are now available to use in SC2 after the patch that rolls out today. =D can you keep us informed =) ? are there allready maps out and stuff? | ||
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lestye
United States4163 Posts
On March 25 2015 22:04 3point14 wrote: can you keep us informed =) ? are there allready maps out and stuff? Yeah, so far I see Lost Temple on the Arcade. Not sure if the port will all be done by 1 guy or if there's going to lots of people separately working to port all the maps. Here's the developer thread for Lost Temple WC3 that I've played: http://www.sc2mapster.com/forums/general/general-chat/76348-war3-mod-ga-change-log-future-plans/ Then u have armies of azeroth | ||
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JieXian
Malaysia4677 Posts
On March 25 2015 00:58 lestye wrote: That's way different. Most people who are "into" those sports aren't playing it. With video games you're probably going to be playing it or watch the game you play the most. It's 100% the multitasking. When you play Broodwar, you're scouting, building army, fighting, keeping resources low, casting abiltiies, moving out of abilities, dealing with drops, and a bunch of other shit at the same time. If you forget to make your workers (or in Brood War's case forget to put your workers on the mineral line because you were busy), you're fucked. If a drop gets off that wrecks your workers, you're especially fucked. You need to pay attention a million times more. When you play dota, you're just sitting there csing casually, you can do it one handed, you might use a spell or two to harass, maybe you're a bit low and you're going to save the mana you have for an escape spell or save it for a burst kill. Glancing at the minimap once in a while to make sure no one is missing. In CS, I'm not super knoweldgeable, but form my understanding you have a handfull of things you need to worry about, you don't need to change your view and do something or other shit every handfull of seconds. You're just worrying about your positioning, and where your enemy might be, and where you're exposed. It's way slower/tactical, you just have to be ready to have fast reaction time to aim and kill, but even then that's going to be only for a few seconds in the match. (comparing how long warcraft 3 fights are vs cs fights, cs fights can be over in like 2 seconds where wc3 fights can be minutes long) There's not that many ways to "fall behind" in Dota like in Starcraft/Warcraft. Not to mention you have the team element in Dota/CS, even if you suck maybe someone on your team can carry you. Actually I meant that kids and "casuals" are still playing football and basketball despite the fact that the skill gap is much more apparent, and there's the difference in physique to add to it. Maybe running around in real life is more fun than clicking around. Maybe the social acceptance helps it. Either way we both have to admit these things are very complex. You were comparing high level RTS to low level DotA. I have played in some amateur tournaments a long time ago and can appreciate the depth and difficulty of high level DotA. Missing a worker or 2 or some drops in an RTS isn't a problem at low levels. Have you watched some of Day9's bronze level funday mondays before? hahaha. Actually there are some "easy ways" to play an RTS too. ie ghouls vs using fiends. Using archers as opposed to using grunts. Going mech as terran vs going bio. As for CS. I think you're not giving it enough credit. You don't need to change your view but you need to be aware of 9 other people. It's not slower because the fights lasts 2 seconds but the pace is so much faster because of how fragile it is. Of course there's the precision element to it too. I never took CS seriously but I played a lot of Quake at one point. It felt waaay more faster than BW for me. We can never say for sure whether multitasking is harder than working together with a team, being precise and other skillsets required in CS and DotA but based on my experience having played and getting owned by better players in all the games I think at the very least we should agree that they are all very difficult. Mechanically WC3 is way harder than Dota and CS. Then again I saw your first reply to me I have to agree as we use a lot more of the keyboard in an RTS. | ||
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XXXSmOke
United States1333 Posts
I was raised on BW+Wc3. I played wc3 ladder for six years straight.......... The other amazing thing about wc3 is that 1v1 was incredible, but 2v2 in that game is fuckin legit, the combos between races are so much fun. Alike many others here. After 15 years of BW+Wc3 we were all hoping that SC2 was going to get us to 30 years old..... but to many damn flaws it only laster 1.5 years for me  I would kill for a wc4 Or even better since I dont trust Blizz anymore I want Riot to make a wc3 clone........ They would kill that and then own both markets of Moba and RTS> | ||
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lestye
United States4163 Posts
On March 26 2015 01:03 XXXSmOke wrote: Ohhh wc3 <3, played a couple of games the other day fun stuff. Or even better since I dont trust Blizz anymore I want Riot to make a wc3 clone........ They would kill that and then own both markets of Moba and RTS> You're joking right? I don't think they'd do a good job outside of pumping money into the pro scene. As far as the game/features are concerned I wouldn't trust Riot with a Tetris remake. Also I don't want to wait 20 years for replays. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On March 25 2015 17:37 404AlphaSquad wrote: What I dont like about his approach is that he wants to create a constantly shifting meta, but all it does is limiting the players options imo. Sure if you veto different units/heros the game will look different every time, but within the game the options for a player are more limited. I mean, the dream is a constantly shifting meta, the reality is that optimal vetos will emerge very quickly in most matchups once people play them enough and simply serve to create some really degenerate scenarios. On March 26 2015 01:12 lestye wrote: You're joking right? I don't think they'd do a good job outside of pumping money into the pro scene. As far as the game/features are concerned I wouldn't trust Riot with a Tetris remake. Also I don't want to wait 20 years for replays. Yeah, while you can have a debate about how they design/balance the game, there's one thing that's hard to debate is that Riot's really slow about feature addition even though they're only developing one game. It's kind of understandable because most of the feature additions like replays and stuff aren't monetized and therefore don't hugely affect their bottom line, but given how rooted War3 is in a lot of the "extra" features like custom games, a Warcraft spiritual sequel done by Riot with that mentality would just be unacceptable. | ||
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AssyrianKing
Australia2111 Posts
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404AlphaSquad
839 Posts
On March 26 2015 01:12 lestye wrote: You're joking right? I don't think they'd do a good job outside of pumping money into the pro scene. As far as the game/features are concerned I wouldn't trust Riot with a Tetris remake. Also I don't want to wait 20 years for replays. If Valve would do a wc3 clone like their dota clone, they would dominate the RTS scene. | ||
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lestye
United States4163 Posts
On March 26 2015 23:30 404AlphaSquad wrote: If Valve would do a wc3 clone like their dota clone, they would dominate the RTS scene. Why would they want to? The RTS "scene" is completely dead. The most popular thing about WC3 was the custom maps, they're going to have that + more when Dota 2 custom maps come out , they could just focus on Left 4 Dead 3 or Half-life 3 which would sell 3x more copies anyway. | ||
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Spaylz
Japan1743 Posts
On March 26 2015 23:50 lestye wrote: Why would they want to? The RTS "scene" is completely dead. The most popular thing about WC3 was the custom maps, they're going to have that + more when Dota 2 custom maps come out , they could just focus on Left 4 Dead 3 or Half-life 3 which would sell 3x more copies anyway. Ehhh... I don't know about "dead". The original video for Warcraft: Armies of Azeroth eagerly surpassed the 700,000 views mark. Surely, that has to mean something. The latest gameplay video has nearly 500k views in two weeks. Those numbers are honestly decent, if not great. I may be biased, but I strongly believe there is a demand out there for a solid RTS other than SC2. Perhaps not WC4, but something, a game which offers the same action-packed experience as WC3 but with some differences. What 404AlphaSquad said is likely wishful thinking, but I could get behind it. Valve has handled Dota quite well. The business model is pristine, the game is kept fresh by IceFrog's tendencies to jumble things around a lot, and the scene is very much alive. They honestly nailed it. I think I would welcome a WC3-like RTS by Valve with open arms. It would essentially follow the exact same business model as Dota 2, too. It's not going to happen though. Not necessarily because it would step on Dota 2's player base and territory, but because I'm not sure the guys over at Valve have the right people for it. Have they ever done anything remotely close to a RTS game, aside from Dota 2? | ||
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lestye
United States4163 Posts
On March 27 2015 00:26 Spaylz wrote: Ehhh... I don't know about "dead". The original video for Warcraft: Armies of Azeroth eagerly surpassed the 700,000 views mark. Surely, that has to mean something. The latest gameplay video has nearly 500k views in two weeks. Those numbers are honestly decent, if not great. I may be biased, but I strongly believe there is a demand out there for a solid RTS other than SC2. Perhaps not WC4, but something, a game which offers the same action-packed experience as WC3 but with some differences. What 404AlphaSquad said is likely wishful thinking, but I could get behind it. Valve has handled Dota quite well. The business model is pristine, the game is kept fresh by IceFrog's tendencies to jumble things around a lot, and the scene is very much alive. They honestly nailed it. I think I would welcome a WC3-like RTS by Valve with open arms. It would essentially follow the exact same business model as Dota 2, too. It's not going to happen though. Not necessarily because it would step on Dota 2's player base and territory, but because I'm not sure the guys over at Valve have the right people for it. Have they ever done anything remotely close to a RTS game, aside from Dota 2? The genre as a whole is pretty dead. There's no one making them. And if they do, they dont sell very well. It's Blizzard RTSes versus the world. I don't think Valve would be able to remake all of Warcraft III like they did Dota. They would probably have to make their own designs and balance as well as new races. "The business model is pristine, the game is kept fresh by IceFrog's tendencies to jumble things around a lot, and the scene is very much alive." I was talking about RTSes, not MOBAs. Do you want the next big RTS to add new units every so often to keep things fresh? RTSes are balanced completely different than MOBAs, if they go for asymmetrical races like WC3/SC. If they design an RTS like AoE that'd be significantly easier to balance. | ||
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Spaylz
Japan1743 Posts
On March 27 2015 01:33 lestye wrote: The genre as a whole is pretty dead. There's no one making them. And if they do, they dont sell very well. It's Blizzard RTSes versus the world. I don't think Valve would be able to remake all of Warcraft III like they did Dota. They would probably have to make their own designs and balance as well as new races. "The business model is pristine, the game is kept fresh by IceFrog's tendencies to jumble things around a lot, and the scene is very much alive." I was talking about RTSes, not MOBAs. Do you want the next big RTS to add new units every so often to keep things fresh? RTSes are balanced completely different than MOBAs, if they go for asymmetrical races like WC3/SC. If they design an RTS like AoE that'd be significantly easier to balance. I'm not saying they should copy paste Dota 2 and put it on a RTS game. I was merely saying that they've done a good job with Dota 2, so it's reasonable to believe that they would do the same with a RTS game. There would be nuances no doubt, but we'd have access to a free-to-play game which doesn't abuse the model in a disgusting manner, the Valve Workshop, Steam, and so on. The game design itself would be completely different and separate. I'm just talking business model and infrastructure here. Yes though, it is Blizzard vs. the world. I still think it doesn't have to be. With the huge popularity that MOBAs enjoy, I'm convinced there is a market for a competitor to SC2. | ||
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Latham
9562 Posts
Looks like they plan on going public with Armies of Azeroth for summer vacation. A bit disappointing due to the long wait time, but I'm sure it will be worth the wait in the end  | ||
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Tchado
Jordan1831 Posts
Man I'm in nostalgia mode now, Wc3 and DoW were so ahead of their time, I think those 2 games perfected the hero unit mechanic and having alternate objectives in a 1v1 that eventually secured victory, in wc3 we had items and creeping, in dow we had securing strategic points,critical locations and relics, and both share the well known objective of beat the shit out of the other guy. This kind of diversity in RTS is what made me love these games, above all , they were FUN ! and I mean really fun ! if a new rts emerges that can capture the "fun" element and keep it competitive , I think we will have something fucking epic , I like the competitiveness of sc2 , but I can understand why many people just dont find it fun anymore......except 3v3 & 4v4 , I dont care what anyone says , I love playing those ! they are hilarious XD note: yes DoW is broken I know, too many races , too many OP units and spells , BUT GOD DAMN IT IT'S SO FUCKING FUN ! correction : just found this "Relic had revealed that work had begun on a sequel, but with THQ having shut down, it is unknown if development has continued. As SEGA has not arranged a licensing agreement with Games Workshop (owner of the Warhammer 40,000 IP), unless this situation changes in future, it is likely that development has halted on any further Dawn of War titles" | ||
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Clonester
Germany2808 Posts
Main Event will be mid December in Yinchuan, China, where the players fight for a total of 160.000$. 55.000$ will be spend during the Qualifications for the 3 regions China, Korea and Europe Possible that the finals of EU Quali take place at the Games Con in Cologne in August. http://tft.w3arena.net/news/?acc=180 | ||
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lestye
United States4163 Posts
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