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On August 13 2016 06:49 KeksX wrote:
"BW Remake"? BW with HD textures is hardly a remake.
And DoW3... I mean DoW 1 and 2 weren't really great eSports titles.
if they actually try to just reskin bw 100% faithfully with new art then it will require an obscene amount of effort.. if they half ass it and fuck the balance then it might as well be a remake because it sure as well won't be broodwar.. either way, i can't think of anyone else that blizzard would want to headhunt to lead community interations/development than day9, because he understands the game and has a persona in the community.. i really don't think it's a crazy idea
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In case people thought i was forcing the Atlas Shrugged jokes into this thread.... i'm not.
Below is the founder of Artillery Games.
![[image loading]](https://s4.postimg.org/xekn69fnh/Ansur.jpg)
who is John Galt?
i have a better question.
Who in this company has made an actual, authentic, real, verified, commercial game?
They still have Day9's name plastered all over their twitter, web and facebook stuff. Whatever guys.
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day9 quit it seems
damn lol
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On August 14 2016 16:10 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
i have a better question.
Who in this company has made an actual, authentic, real, verified, commercial game?
They still have Day9's name plastered all over their twitter, web and facebook stuff. Whatever guys.
You can read about that yourself:
https://www.artillery.com/team
You guys act as if Day9 was the only competent guy in there. That's delusional. Day9 might have had an impact, but you are being completely unfair to the rest of the team to the point where it's just being an ass.
There are multiple guys in there that have more experience in gamedev than Day9 will probably ever have. I love Day9 as much as the next guy in here, but cut the guys some slack.
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From the inside, as a Atlas daily tester the game seems to be in a very healthy place, I expect the nda to be lifted in the next few months actually. However Day9 leaving is certainly a big surprise, I really hope its not as bad of a sign as it looks from the outside.
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On August 15 2016 00:49 KeksX wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2016 16:10 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
i have a better question.
Who in this company has made an actual, authentic, real, verified, commercial game?
They still have Day9's name plastered all over their twitter, web and facebook stuff. Whatever guys. You can read about that yourself: https://www.artillery.com/teamYou guys act as if Day9 was the only competent guy in there. That's delusional. Day9 might have had an impact, but you are being completely unfair to the rest of the team to the point where it's just being an ass. There are multiple guys in there that have more experience in gamedev than Day9 will probably ever have. I love Day9 as much as the next guy in here, but cut the guys some slack.
Day9 has never made a commercial game before either. So the headcount of commercial game makers with a track record is unaltered by Day9's exit.
Day9 is a game design critic with zero track record as a game designer.
No one knows if Day9 is a competent game designer so there is nothing to say if Day9 was a "competent guy" in his role.
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On August 15 2016 01:14 JimmyJRaynor wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2016 00:49 KeksX wrote:On August 14 2016 16:10 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
i have a better question.
Who in this company has made an actual, authentic, real, verified, commercial game?
They still have Day9's name plastered all over their twitter, web and facebook stuff. Whatever guys. You can read about that yourself: https://www.artillery.com/teamYou guys act as if Day9 was the only competent guy in there. That's delusional. Day9 might have had an impact, but you are being completely unfair to the rest of the team to the point where it's just being an ass. There are multiple guys in there that have more experience in gamedev than Day9 will probably ever have. I love Day9 as much as the next guy in here, but cut the guys some slack. Day9 has never made a commercial game before either. So the headcount of commercial game makers with a track record is unaltered by Day9's exit. Day9 is a game design critic with zero track record as a game designer. No one knows if Day9 is a competent game designer so there is nothing to say if Day9 was a "competent guy" in his role.
Thats... basically my point. They have guys in the Atlas team that are clearly experienced.
But with Day9 leaving people act as if the game is doomed to fail now.
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@JimmyJRaynor did you interview at Artillery and get rejected? I'm wondering how they've personally wronged you as you seem to have some sort of vendetta against them. Developing games in small teams is notoriously hard, but I don't see how any of their failures affect you. What sort of vested interest do you have in this company and game to be shitting all over it so hard?
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On August 15 2016 02:03 KeksX wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2016 01:14 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On August 15 2016 00:49 KeksX wrote:On August 14 2016 16:10 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
i have a better question.
Who in this company has made an actual, authentic, real, verified, commercial game?
They still have Day9's name plastered all over their twitter, web and facebook stuff. Whatever guys. You can read about that yourself: https://www.artillery.com/teamYou guys act as if Day9 was the only competent guy in there. That's delusional. Day9 might have had an impact, but you are being completely unfair to the rest of the team to the point where it's just being an ass. There are multiple guys in there that have more experience in gamedev than Day9 will probably ever have. I love Day9 as much as the next guy in here, but cut the guys some slack. Day9 has never made a commercial game before either. So the headcount of commercial game makers with a track record is unaltered by Day9's exit. Day9 is a game design critic with zero track record as a game designer. No one knows if Day9 is a competent game designer so there is nothing to say if Day9 was a "competent guy" in his role. Thats... basically my point. They have guys in the Atlas team that are clearly experienced. But with Day9 leaving people act as if the game is doomed to fail now.
well the thing about making good RTS is you need to actually know what you're doing because of how incredibly intricate the genre is.. having a good bw player who dedicated like 10 years of his life to rts gave a lot of faith to the vision of the project, because of anyone who knows how rts works you would expect an A level foreigner to do know, specifically day9 with all his early dailies and analytics... however, without day9, it's just another dev team and we all know how that usually goes with rts
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On August 13 2016 07:21 Atimo wrote:Clearly if this game is a failure, RTS players will have to wait for ever to have a good game : - BW HD will not be played enough in europe/US - DoW III has no esports potential (I hope to be wrong on this one but gameplay footages seems "meh") - Warcraft IV in 2022 or never - ?? I'm sad tonight 
DoW 3 no esport potential? How do you know?
I read about it a bit and they decided to copy Sc2 where it is smart. Unit squads are no longer locked into animation battles like in DoW1 so you actually micro now, many abilities are area only so enemy can micro out of them. Big parts of the game are going to play more like WC3 with heroes and fighting over important parts on the map and not just macroing in base.
Graphics are nice enough but simple enough so players can see what is going on, and Sega is behind this game and they got enough money to invest into esports if they want to.
Compared to this failed game, it is 100x more esports.
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On August 13 2016 07:21 Atimo wrote:Clearly if this game is a failure, RTS players will have to wait for ever to have a good game : - BW HD will not be played enough in europe/US - DoW III has no esports potential (I hope to be wrong on this one but gameplay footages seems "meh") - Warcraft IV in 2022 or never - ?? I'm sad tonight
Blizzard has a huge opportunity with BW HD imo. With how empty the RTS space is, if they can just manage to strike the right mark between improved graphics/usability and fidelity to the original gameplay, it's a surefire success.
Give me BW with high res choices and rebindable keys and I'm pre-ordering this motherfucker at full $60 price :D.
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On August 15 2016 03:09 Endymion wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2016 02:03 KeksX wrote:On August 15 2016 01:14 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On August 15 2016 00:49 KeksX wrote:On August 14 2016 16:10 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
i have a better question.
Who in this company has made an actual, authentic, real, verified, commercial game?
They still have Day9's name plastered all over their twitter, web and facebook stuff. Whatever guys. You can read about that yourself: https://www.artillery.com/teamYou guys act as if Day9 was the only competent guy in there. That's delusional. Day9 might have had an impact, but you are being completely unfair to the rest of the team to the point where it's just being an ass. There are multiple guys in there that have more experience in gamedev than Day9 will probably ever have. I love Day9 as much as the next guy in here, but cut the guys some slack. Day9 has never made a commercial game before either. So the headcount of commercial game makers with a track record is unaltered by Day9's exit. Day9 is a game design critic with zero track record as a game designer. No one knows if Day9 is a competent game designer so there is nothing to say if Day9 was a "competent guy" in his role. Thats... basically my point. They have guys in the Atlas team that are clearly experienced. But with Day9 leaving people act as if the game is doomed to fail now. well the thing about making good RTS is you need to actually know what you're doing because of how incredibly intricate the genre is.. having a good bw player who dedicated like 10 years of his life to rts gave a lot of faith to the vision of the project, because of anyone who knows how rts works you would expect an A level foreigner to do know, specifically day9 with all his early dailies and analytics... however, without day9, it's just another dev team and we all know how that usually goes with rts
You're making too many assumptions imho.
A good player != a good designer and vice versa. Thats a common fallacy.
"Not having played BW" != "no idea about how to design RTS games." (And if you look at their page, some of them have played BW)
RTS isn't the only intricate game genre to design.
Day9 definitely is a competent guy when it comes to knowledge about RTS. That doesn't say us much about his expertise in designing them though, and we also don't know much about the Atlas guys. But part of the team at least has commercial games as part of their portfolio.
So I wouldn't be so quick to say that without Day9 this just "another dev team"; they might have(and probably have) the same vision Day9 had.
We simply don't really know. Making any kind of judgement of the state of development is pretty much not possible.
Also @-Archangel- what the f are you still doing here. Your only purpose in here is to shit on the game. You're not even talking about it, just calling it failed for some reason and insulting the devs.
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On August 15 2016 05:05 KeksX wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2016 03:09 Endymion wrote:On August 15 2016 02:03 KeksX wrote:On August 15 2016 01:14 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On August 15 2016 00:49 KeksX wrote:On August 14 2016 16:10 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
i have a better question.
Who in this company has made an actual, authentic, real, verified, commercial game?
They still have Day9's name plastered all over their twitter, web and facebook stuff. Whatever guys. You can read about that yourself: https://www.artillery.com/teamYou guys act as if Day9 was the only competent guy in there. That's delusional. Day9 might have had an impact, but you are being completely unfair to the rest of the team to the point where it's just being an ass. There are multiple guys in there that have more experience in gamedev than Day9 will probably ever have. I love Day9 as much as the next guy in here, but cut the guys some slack. Day9 has never made a commercial game before either. So the headcount of commercial game makers with a track record is unaltered by Day9's exit. Day9 is a game design critic with zero track record as a game designer. No one knows if Day9 is a competent game designer so there is nothing to say if Day9 was a "competent guy" in his role. Thats... basically my point. They have guys in the Atlas team that are clearly experienced. But with Day9 leaving people act as if the game is doomed to fail now. well the thing about making good RTS is you need to actually know what you're doing because of how incredibly intricate the genre is.. having a good bw player who dedicated like 10 years of his life to rts gave a lot of faith to the vision of the project, because of anyone who knows how rts works you would expect an A level foreigner to do know, specifically day9 with all his early dailies and analytics... however, without day9, it's just another dev team and we all know how that usually goes with rts You're making too many assumptions imho. A good player != a good designer and vice versa. Thats a common fallacy. "Not having played BW" != "no idea about how to design RTS games." (And if you look at their page, some of them have played BW) RTS isn't the only intricate game genre to design. Day9 definitely is a competent guy when it comes to knowledge about RTS. That doesn't say us much about his expertise in designing them though, and we also don't know much about the Atlas guys. But part of the team at least has commercial games as part of their portfolio. So I wouldn't be so quick to say that without Day9 this just "another dev team"; they might have(and probably have) the same vision Day9 had. We simply don't really know. Making any kind of judgement of the state of development is pretty much not possible. Also @-Archangel- what the f are you still doing here. Your only purpose in here is to shit on the game. You're not even talking about it, just calling it failed for some reason and insulting the devs.
i would disagree and say that it would be rare that a bad rts player could be able to design a good rts game.. just like i think a bad fighting game player would make a bad fighting game dev... not that i know that they're bad, just that they have lost a strong member of the team from my perspective
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On August 15 2016 04:05 ZenithM wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2016 07:21 Atimo wrote:Clearly if this game is a failure, RTS players will have to wait for ever to have a good game : - BW HD will not be played enough in europe/US - DoW III has no esports potential (I hope to be wrong on this one but gameplay footages seems "meh") - Warcraft IV in 2022 or never - ?? I'm sad tonight Blizzard has a huge opportunity with BW HD imo. With how empty the RTS space is, if they can just manage to strike the right mark between improved graphics/usability and fidelity to the original gameplay, it's a surefire success. Give me BW with high res choices and rebindable keys and I'm pre-ordering this motherfucker at full $60 price :D.
Yeah oldschool-try-hard-gamer like you and me (yes, I assume you are "old" :o) will be pleased but you will never get massive young audience, tournaments and scene from a game with such complex mechanics (except in Korea cuz BW gene)
Otherwise, I franlky don't understand the hate on Atlas from guys who didn't see a second of gameplay, but I agree with Raynor about the Day9 stuff, they should have post something about it and remove all reference on their site
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On August 15 2016 06:08 Endymion wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2016 05:05 KeksX wrote:On August 15 2016 03:09 Endymion wrote:On August 15 2016 02:03 KeksX wrote:On August 15 2016 01:14 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On August 15 2016 00:49 KeksX wrote:On August 14 2016 16:10 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
i have a better question.
Who in this company has made an actual, authentic, real, verified, commercial game?
They still have Day9's name plastered all over their twitter, web and facebook stuff. Whatever guys. You can read about that yourself: https://www.artillery.com/teamYou guys act as if Day9 was the only competent guy in there. That's delusional. Day9 might have had an impact, but you are being completely unfair to the rest of the team to the point where it's just being an ass. There are multiple guys in there that have more experience in gamedev than Day9 will probably ever have. I love Day9 as much as the next guy in here, but cut the guys some slack. Day9 has never made a commercial game before either. So the headcount of commercial game makers with a track record is unaltered by Day9's exit. Day9 is a game design critic with zero track record as a game designer. No one knows if Day9 is a competent game designer so there is nothing to say if Day9 was a "competent guy" in his role. Thats... basically my point. They have guys in the Atlas team that are clearly experienced. But with Day9 leaving people act as if the game is doomed to fail now. well the thing about making good RTS is you need to actually know what you're doing because of how incredibly intricate the genre is.. having a good bw player who dedicated like 10 years of his life to rts gave a lot of faith to the vision of the project, because of anyone who knows how rts works you would expect an A level foreigner to do know, specifically day9 with all his early dailies and analytics... however, without day9, it's just another dev team and we all know how that usually goes with rts You're making too many assumptions imho. A good player != a good designer and vice versa. Thats a common fallacy. "Not having played BW" != "no idea about how to design RTS games." (And if you look at their page, some of them have played BW) RTS isn't the only intricate game genre to design. Day9 definitely is a competent guy when it comes to knowledge about RTS. That doesn't say us much about his expertise in designing them though, and we also don't know much about the Atlas guys. But part of the team at least has commercial games as part of their portfolio. So I wouldn't be so quick to say that without Day9 this just "another dev team"; they might have(and probably have) the same vision Day9 had. We simply don't really know. Making any kind of judgement of the state of development is pretty much not possible. Also @-Archangel- what the f are you still doing here. Your only purpose in here is to shit on the game. You're not even talking about it, just calling it failed for some reason and insulting the devs. i would disagree and say that it would be rare that a bad rts player could be able to design a good rts game.. just like i think a bad fighting game player would make a bad fighting game dev... not that i know that they're bad, just that they have lost a strong member of the team from my perspective
So what about the guys that designed BW? Were they all A-level foreigners? 
That doesn't make sense. Yes, being a competent RTS player can certainly help you give a vision, but unless you're directly copying the game you're good at, it doesn't really matter if you're a pro at it or not.
I agree that Day9 is a loss, especially because of his marketing potential and strong vision. But what it actually means for the game... all just speculation at this point. Artillery should definitely communicate about that to clear things up.
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On August 15 2016 06:33 KeksX wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2016 06:08 Endymion wrote:On August 15 2016 05:05 KeksX wrote:On August 15 2016 03:09 Endymion wrote:On August 15 2016 02:03 KeksX wrote:On August 15 2016 01:14 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On August 15 2016 00:49 KeksX wrote:On August 14 2016 16:10 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
i have a better question.
Who in this company has made an actual, authentic, real, verified, commercial game?
They still have Day9's name plastered all over their twitter, web and facebook stuff. Whatever guys. You can read about that yourself: https://www.artillery.com/teamYou guys act as if Day9 was the only competent guy in there. That's delusional. Day9 might have had an impact, but you are being completely unfair to the rest of the team to the point where it's just being an ass. There are multiple guys in there that have more experience in gamedev than Day9 will probably ever have. I love Day9 as much as the next guy in here, but cut the guys some slack. Day9 has never made a commercial game before either. So the headcount of commercial game makers with a track record is unaltered by Day9's exit. Day9 is a game design critic with zero track record as a game designer. No one knows if Day9 is a competent game designer so there is nothing to say if Day9 was a "competent guy" in his role. Thats... basically my point. They have guys in the Atlas team that are clearly experienced. But with Day9 leaving people act as if the game is doomed to fail now. well the thing about making good RTS is you need to actually know what you're doing because of how incredibly intricate the genre is.. having a good bw player who dedicated like 10 years of his life to rts gave a lot of faith to the vision of the project, because of anyone who knows how rts works you would expect an A level foreigner to do know, specifically day9 with all his early dailies and analytics... however, without day9, it's just another dev team and we all know how that usually goes with rts You're making too many assumptions imho. A good player != a good designer and vice versa. Thats a common fallacy. "Not having played BW" != "no idea about how to design RTS games." (And if you look at their page, some of them have played BW) RTS isn't the only intricate game genre to design. Day9 definitely is a competent guy when it comes to knowledge about RTS. That doesn't say us much about his expertise in designing them though, and we also don't know much about the Atlas guys. But part of the team at least has commercial games as part of their portfolio. So I wouldn't be so quick to say that without Day9 this just "another dev team"; they might have(and probably have) the same vision Day9 had. We simply don't really know. Making any kind of judgement of the state of development is pretty much not possible. Also @-Archangel- what the f are you still doing here. Your only purpose in here is to shit on the game. You're not even talking about it, just calling it failed for some reason and insulting the devs. i would disagree and say that it would be rare that a bad rts player could be able to design a good rts game.. just like i think a bad fighting game player would make a bad fighting game dev... not that i know that they're bad, just that they have lost a strong member of the team from my perspective So what about the guys that designed BW? Were they all A-level foreigners? That doesn't make sense. Yes, being a competent RTS player can certainly help you give a vision, but unless you're directly copying the game you're good at, it doesn't really matter if you're a pro at it or not. I agree that Day9 is a loss, especially because of his marketing potential and strong vision. But what it actually means for the game... all just speculation at this point. Artillery should definitely communicate about that to clear things up.
Yes it is only speculation at this point, but at the same time i personally had a lot of faith in the game because of day9. Do i know if he is a skilled designer? Obviously not because he didn't produce anything yet. BUT i watched him talking about game design a lot with references to sc2, bw, dota and csgo and everything i heard was imo showing that he knows what he is talking about.
Does that mean that he can execute his "knowledge" in an own game? Not necessarily, but i kinda knew what his design goals are and i agreed with it.
Now that is gone and i at least can speculate that day9's vision of the game was part of the reason he left artillery.
So yeah, artillery should start communicating what actually happened because as far as i know day9 was an important part of the whole project.
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On August 15 2016 06:46 The_Red_Viper wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2016 06:33 KeksX wrote:On August 15 2016 06:08 Endymion wrote:On August 15 2016 05:05 KeksX wrote:On August 15 2016 03:09 Endymion wrote:On August 15 2016 02:03 KeksX wrote:On August 15 2016 01:14 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On August 15 2016 00:49 KeksX wrote:On August 14 2016 16:10 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
i have a better question.
Who in this company has made an actual, authentic, real, verified, commercial game?
They still have Day9's name plastered all over their twitter, web and facebook stuff. Whatever guys. You can read about that yourself: https://www.artillery.com/teamYou guys act as if Day9 was the only competent guy in there. That's delusional. Day9 might have had an impact, but you are being completely unfair to the rest of the team to the point where it's just being an ass. There are multiple guys in there that have more experience in gamedev than Day9 will probably ever have. I love Day9 as much as the next guy in here, but cut the guys some slack. Day9 has never made a commercial game before either. So the headcount of commercial game makers with a track record is unaltered by Day9's exit. Day9 is a game design critic with zero track record as a game designer. No one knows if Day9 is a competent game designer so there is nothing to say if Day9 was a "competent guy" in his role. Thats... basically my point. They have guys in the Atlas team that are clearly experienced. But with Day9 leaving people act as if the game is doomed to fail now. well the thing about making good RTS is you need to actually know what you're doing because of how incredibly intricate the genre is.. having a good bw player who dedicated like 10 years of his life to rts gave a lot of faith to the vision of the project, because of anyone who knows how rts works you would expect an A level foreigner to do know, specifically day9 with all his early dailies and analytics... however, without day9, it's just another dev team and we all know how that usually goes with rts You're making too many assumptions imho. A good player != a good designer and vice versa. Thats a common fallacy. "Not having played BW" != "no idea about how to design RTS games." (And if you look at their page, some of them have played BW) RTS isn't the only intricate game genre to design. Day9 definitely is a competent guy when it comes to knowledge about RTS. That doesn't say us much about his expertise in designing them though, and we also don't know much about the Atlas guys. But part of the team at least has commercial games as part of their portfolio. So I wouldn't be so quick to say that without Day9 this just "another dev team"; they might have(and probably have) the same vision Day9 had. We simply don't really know. Making any kind of judgement of the state of development is pretty much not possible. Also @-Archangel- what the f are you still doing here. Your only purpose in here is to shit on the game. You're not even talking about it, just calling it failed for some reason and insulting the devs. i would disagree and say that it would be rare that a bad rts player could be able to design a good rts game.. just like i think a bad fighting game player would make a bad fighting game dev... not that i know that they're bad, just that they have lost a strong member of the team from my perspective So what about the guys that designed BW? Were they all A-level foreigners? That doesn't make sense. Yes, being a competent RTS player can certainly help you give a vision, but unless you're directly copying the game you're good at, it doesn't really matter if you're a pro at it or not. I agree that Day9 is a loss, especially because of his marketing potential and strong vision. But what it actually means for the game... all just speculation at this point. Artillery should definitely communicate about that to clear things up. Yes it is only speculation at this point, but at the same time i personally had a lot of faith in the game because of day9. Do i know if he is a skilled designer? Obviously not because he didn't produce anything yet. BUT i watched him talking about game design a lot with references to sc2, bw, dota and csgo and everything i heard was imo showing that he knows what he is talking about. Does that mean that he can execute his "knowledge" in an own game? Not necessarily, but i kinda knew what his design goals are and i agreed with it. Now that is gone and i at least can speculate that day9's vision of the game was part of the reason he left artillery.
So yeah, artillery should start communicating what actually happened because as far as i know day9 was an important part of the whole project.
My thoughts exactly, and the way Day9 announced that (no explanation simple tweet) scared me a bit, i guess that if he had left for a totally non atlas related reason, it would have said it, but yeah, pure speculation there...
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On August 15 2016 02:19 cha0 wrote:
@JimmyJRaynor did you interview at Artillery and get rejected? I'm wondering how they've personally wronged you as you seem to have some sort of vendetta against them. Developing games in small teams is notoriously hard, but I don't see how any of their failures affect you. What sort of vested interest do you have in this company and game to be shitting all over it so hard? You know, I was reading this thread and I was thinking the exact same thing.
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I'd love to be able to comment on the game and hear about how it has evolved since I last saw it, but damn the NDA.
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EPT
