EPTOn August 15 2016 06:56 Atimo wrote:
My thoughts exactly, and the way Day9 announced that (no explanation simple tweet) scared me a bit, i guess that if he had left for a totally non atlas related reason, it would have said it, but yeah, pure speculation there...
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On August 15 2016 06:46 The_Red_Viper wrote:
Yes it is only speculation at this point, but at the same time i personally had a lot of faith in the game because of day9. Do i know if he is a skilled designer? Obviously not because he didn't produce anything yet. BUT i watched him talking about game design a lot with references to sc2, bw, dota and csgo and everything i heard was imo showing that he knows what he is talking about.
Does that mean that he can execute his "knowledge" in an own game? Not necessarily, but i kinda knew what his design goals are and i agreed with it.
Now that is gone and i at least can speculate that day9's vision of the game was part of the reason he left artillery.
So yeah, artillery should start communicating what actually happened because as far as i know day9 was an important part of the whole project.
On August 15 2016 06:33 KeksX wrote:
So what about the guys that designed BW? Were they all A-level foreigners?
That doesn't make sense. Yes, being a competent RTS player can certainly help you give a vision, but unless you're directly copying the game you're good at, it doesn't really matter if you're a pro at it or not.
I agree that Day9 is a loss, especially because of his marketing potential and strong vision. But what it actually means for the game... all just speculation at this point. Artillery should definitely communicate about that to clear things up.
On August 15 2016 06:08 Endymion wrote:
i would disagree and say that it would be rare that a bad rts player could be able to design a good rts game.. just like i think a bad fighting game player would make a bad fighting game dev... not that i know that they're bad, just that they have lost a strong member of the team from my perspective
On August 15 2016 05:05 KeksX wrote:
You're making too many assumptions imho.
A good player != a good designer and vice versa. Thats a common fallacy.
"Not having played BW" != "no idea about how to design RTS games." (And if you look at their page, some of them have played BW)
RTS isn't the only intricate game genre to design.
Day9 definitely is a competent guy when it comes to knowledge about RTS. That doesn't say us much about his expertise in designing them though, and we also don't know much about the Atlas guys. But part of the team at least has commercial games as part of their portfolio.
So I wouldn't be so quick to say that without Day9 this just "another dev team"; they might have(and probably have) the same vision Day9 had.
We simply don't really know. Making any kind of judgement of the state of development is pretty much not possible.
Also @-Archangel- what the f are you still doing here. Your only purpose in here is to shit on the game. You're not even talking about it, just calling it failed for some reason and insulting the devs.
On August 15 2016 03:09 Endymion wrote:
well the thing about making good RTS is you need to actually know what you're doing because of how incredibly intricate the genre is.. having a good bw player who dedicated like 10 years of his life to rts gave a lot of faith to the vision of the project, because of anyone who knows how rts works you would expect an A level foreigner to do know, specifically day9 with all his early dailies and analytics... however, without day9, it's just another dev team and we all know how that usually goes with rts
On August 15 2016 02:03 KeksX wrote:
Thats... basically my point. They have guys in the Atlas team that are clearly experienced.
But with Day9 leaving people act as if the game is doomed to fail now.
On August 15 2016 01:14 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
Day9 has never made a commercial game before either. So the headcount of commercial game makers with a track record is unaltered by Day9's exit.
Day9 is a game design critic with zero track record as a game designer.
No one knows if Day9 is a competent game designer so there is nothing to say if Day9 was a "competent guy" in his role.
On August 15 2016 00:49 KeksX wrote:
You can read about that yourself:
https://www.artillery.com/team
You guys act as if Day9 was the only competent guy in there. That's delusional. Day9 might have had an impact, but you are being completely unfair to the rest of the team to the point where it's just being an ass.
There are multiple guys in there that have more experience in gamedev than Day9 will probably ever have. I love Day9 as much as the next guy in here, but cut the guys some slack.
On August 14 2016 16:10 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
i have a better question.
Who in this company has made an actual, authentic, real, verified, commercial game?
They still have Day9's name plastered all over their twitter, web and facebook stuff. Whatever guys.
i have a better question.
Who in this company has made an actual, authentic, real, verified, commercial game?
They still have Day9's name plastered all over their twitter, web and facebook stuff. Whatever guys.
You can read about that yourself:
https://www.artillery.com/team
You guys act as if Day9 was the only competent guy in there. That's delusional. Day9 might have had an impact, but you are being completely unfair to the rest of the team to the point where it's just being an ass.
There are multiple guys in there that have more experience in gamedev than Day9 will probably ever have. I love Day9 as much as the next guy in here, but cut the guys some slack.
Day9 has never made a commercial game before either. So the headcount of commercial game makers with a track record is unaltered by Day9's exit.
Day9 is a game design critic with zero track record as a game designer.
No one knows if Day9 is a competent game designer so there is nothing to say if Day9 was a "competent guy" in his role.
Thats... basically my point. They have guys in the Atlas team that are clearly experienced.
But with Day9 leaving people act as if the game is doomed to fail now.
well the thing about making good RTS is you need to actually know what you're doing because of how incredibly intricate the genre is.. having a good bw player who dedicated like 10 years of his life to rts gave a lot of faith to the vision of the project, because of anyone who knows how rts works you would expect an A level foreigner to do know, specifically day9 with all his early dailies and analytics... however, without day9, it's just another dev team and we all know how that usually goes with rts
You're making too many assumptions imho.
A good player != a good designer and vice versa. Thats a common fallacy.
"Not having played BW" != "no idea about how to design RTS games." (And if you look at their page, some of them have played BW)
RTS isn't the only intricate game genre to design.
Day9 definitely is a competent guy when it comes to knowledge about RTS. That doesn't say us much about his expertise in designing them though, and we also don't know much about the Atlas guys. But part of the team at least has commercial games as part of their portfolio.
So I wouldn't be so quick to say that without Day9 this just "another dev team"; they might have(and probably have) the same vision Day9 had.
We simply don't really know. Making any kind of judgement of the state of development is pretty much not possible.
Also @-Archangel- what the f are you still doing here. Your only purpose in here is to shit on the game. You're not even talking about it, just calling it failed for some reason and insulting the devs.
i would disagree and say that it would be rare that a bad rts player could be able to design a good rts game.. just like i think a bad fighting game player would make a bad fighting game dev... not that i know that they're bad, just that they have lost a strong member of the team from my perspective
So what about the guys that designed BW? Were they all A-level foreigners?
That doesn't make sense. Yes, being a competent RTS player can certainly help you give a vision, but unless you're directly copying the game you're good at, it doesn't really matter if you're a pro at it or not.
I agree that Day9 is a loss, especially because of his marketing potential and strong vision. But what it actually means for the game... all just speculation at this point. Artillery should definitely communicate about that to clear things up.
Yes it is only speculation at this point, but at the same time i personally had a lot of faith in the game because of day9. Do i know if he is a skilled designer? Obviously not because he didn't produce anything yet. BUT i watched him talking about game design a lot with references to sc2, bw, dota and csgo and everything i heard was imo showing that he knows what he is talking about.
Does that mean that he can execute his "knowledge" in an own game? Not necessarily, but i kinda knew what his design goals are and i agreed with it.
Now that is gone and i at least can speculate that day9's vision of the game was part of the reason he left artillery.
So yeah, artillery should start communicating what actually happened because as far as i know day9 was an important part of the whole project.
My thoughts exactly, and the way Day9 announced that (no explanation simple tweet) scared me a bit, i guess that if he had left for a totally non atlas related reason, it would have said it, but yeah, pure speculation there...
The tweet specifically says it's so that he can do Day9.tv full time, though...
Developing a game is a massive project, even if you're just one of many. Maybe he just has had to choose priorities and chose is channel.
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