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one of the big arguments that boogie2988 (francis on youtube) made was this depressing thought - gaming historians and gamers looking for a nostalgia trip WON'T be able to find the games once the xbox one servers are down.
Think of the speed runs that are done on old consoles! Think of the simple thrills of heading over to your friend's house, busting out an N64 and kicking it on mario kart! Think of the few games that come out on this console that will be fantastic, and think of the fact that it won't be possible to revisit them once the xbox cloud is shut off! I revisit FFVII, Baldur's Gate 2 and Deus Ex fairly regularly. I shudder to imagine if an xbox one game comes out that is of their quality (although that's unlikely). It's going to be (his words not mine) a gaming dark age. Unless we all collectively refuse to buy.
And well, I was never impressed with the imposter xbox when it first arrived. I was won over by xbox 360 on a price point and on the controllers. But as quickly as xbox appeared as a contender it can disappear. It does not have the quality and pedigree of its opponents and it clearly got lucky with the 360.
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On June 17 2013 04:30 jinorazi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2013 04:03 woody60707 wrote:
Honestly, why all the hate? When I got my Toyota, I didn't go around talking about how much Ford sucks. (tho I do know some people even do that too) this is more akin to bmw making their m3's heavier and heavier with newer models and big fans of the e30 m3's complaining how its this sucks. bmw didnt go around saying, "this is the new way take it or leave it" and in the end, they made the m1 which made all those people very happy. gamers complaining about a video game console they've come to love because its changing for the worst. i think there is less ps4'ers hating on xbox (this is inevitable and same goes vice versa) and more of gamers in general hating on xbox.
This is mostly correct. I don't like the new xbox at all, and I'm someone who did a large portion of my gaming on the 360 and often preferred the 360 version of games that were multi platform. I have a problem buying into the xbox as media center or whatever the term is argument because of the 360. On the 360, you couldn't do something as simple as copying music from a flash drive onto the hdd, you had to put it on a CD and then rip the tracks from that CD, wasting a lot of time and sometimes money. If things like that have been fixed, the new xbox will look a lot more appealing, but even then it'd just be doing things that the playstation could already do on the last gen. I'm someone who wants both consoles do well as I own both ps3 and 360, but since I do probably the majority of my console gaming offline, disconnected from the internet (fighting games), the new xbox looks like it'd cause a ton of unnecessary headaches.
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Should I care about this persons opinion? I mean he says "From my experience" so I must be missing something right?
Either way, once every month isn't too few. If it was, steam wouldn't be successful, but as it turns out Valve is doing extremely well.
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United States3806 Posts
While interesting, you can still technically do this on steam (to a point) by making a new steam account for each game you buy, then selling the account while you are in offline mode. If you argue, "well then you cant get a new game until you are done with the current one" well the same technically applies to the XB1. If you trade in the game, you cant use it anymore. And if there was no 24 hour check you wouldnt be able to use another game either (outside of the ones that are valid on your account). Also, trade in rarely gets you much money anyway (on average it is like you get it at the Steam pre-order PC price after you get your money from the trade... spend $60 get $15 credit vs spend $45 on steam)
I fail to see a difference between Steam's offline mode and XB1's except that Steam frowns upon selling your account (EDIT: I mean this in regards to me not seeing a reason for XB1's mandatory check ins). Meanwhile steam is cheaper, to the point it is like you are ALWAYS trading in your game except you get to keep it.
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His premise seems to be that we should be glad that MS is making it's platform a DRM digital-distribution machine, because this will give Steam competition, which is really good for us consumers.
But no it won't, and it isn't. This is not going to drive Steam's prices down any further, and Steam's sales are already some of the absolute best deals in gaming. Meanwhile, it's been confirmed that all the major titles on the console are going to be the standard $60 fare.
But beyond that, there is nothing preventing MS (or Sony) from digitally-distributing their games without demanding it from consumers. The 360 lets players buy major-title games On-Demand -- but it doesn't demand players buy them that way. You can have both worlds.
Even in the Steam comparison -- there are many games sold on Steam that don't even require Steam to run. Some games require Steam running, or even add their own layer of DRM -- it's really entire up to the games' producers. Steam Offline mode is a lot less restrictive that the Xbone check-in system. It's just not as great a comparison as MS wants it to be, and isn't going to be providing this theorized competition for consumers' benefit. They're still two different markets for two very different platforms. Again, it's like MS wants to sell people a 2nd, redundant PC, erasing all the benefits consoles have over PCs.
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The instant I picked up 'internship at Microsoft' in my cursory scan of the text I knew what to expect.
Funnily enough, this piece perfectly explains why Microsoft have managed to simultaneously alienate users of services like Steam and users of physical discs. Just a horrible, poorly thought out and hollow attempt at changing the lanscape of gaming to their economic advantage under the guise of a badly constructed excuse of taking gaming forwards. An attempted ruse which looks set to fail drastically.
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why is it that when speaking of xboxone digital distribution, they talk as if psn does not offer digital content...therefore xboxone is "looking ahead"
only difference i can see is, if you have a game disc, you can play however you want on ps4. if you have a game attached to your psn, i'd imagine it'll be no different than what ms is doing. the difference being, ps4 at least gives you both options meanwhile ms enforces digital licensing only.
i personally think used game sales is over, for me at least. i never buy used games again because to play online with used game, you must buy "online pass" for most of the games (serial key with the game disc that gets attached to your psn). so used game price + online pass = same as original price, so why bother with used game.
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Can someone please explain to me how Microsoft thinks they're going to profit off doing things like this? I've tried to justify it for a while now & can't think of a solid argument to lock the system down so hard.
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On June 17 2013 09:21 Rainbow Cuddles wrote:
Can someone please explain to me how Microsoft thinks they're going to profit off doing things like this? I've tried to justify it for a while now & can't think of a solid argument to lock the system down so hard.
All of this would be fine and dandy if Microsoft had no competitors and would really boost their profits.
Microsoft is not a monopoly however and in fact have a strong competitor, so like you say, you can't really justify it.
On June 17 2013 09:07 jinorazi wrote:
why is it that when speaking of xboxone digital distribution, they talk as if psn does not offer digital content...therefore xboxone is "looking ahead"
only difference i can see is, if you have a game disc, you can play however you want on ps4. if you have a game attached to your psn, i'd imagine it'll be no different than what ms is doing. the difference being, ps4 at least gives you both options meanwhile ms enforces digital licensing only.
i personally think used game sales is over, for me at least. i never buy used games again because to play online with used game, you must buy "online pass" for most of the games (serial key with the game disc that gets attached to your psn). so used game price + online pass = same as original price, so why bother with used game.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure PS4 doesn't require anything in terms of used games. Pretty sure as long as you have PS+ you can just put any disc in and play.
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On June 17 2013 09:54 Fruscainte wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2013 09:21 Rainbow Cuddles wrote:
Can someone please explain to me how Microsoft thinks they're going to profit off doing things like this? I've tried to justify it for a while now & can't think of a solid argument to lock the system down so hard. All of this would be fine and dandy if Microsoft had no competitors and would really boost their profits. Microsoft is not a monopoly however and in fact have a strong competitor, so like you say, you can't really justify it. Show nested quote +On June 17 2013 09:07 jinorazi wrote:
why is it that when speaking of xboxone digital distribution, they talk as if psn does not offer digital content...therefore xboxone is "looking ahead"
only difference i can see is, if you have a game disc, you can play however you want on ps4. if you have a game attached to your psn, i'd imagine it'll be no different than what ms is doing. the difference being, ps4 at least gives you both options meanwhile ms enforces digital licensing only.
i personally think used game sales is over, for me at least. i never buy used games again because to play online with used game, you must buy "online pass" for most of the games (serial key with the game disc that gets attached to your psn). so used game price + online pass = same as original price, so why bother with used game. Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure PS4 doesn't require anything in terms of used games. Pretty sure as long as you have PS+ you can just put any disc in and play.
i dont know if it works with ps+ but thats a good benefit to have (i dont have ps+)
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On June 17 2013 09:59 jinorazi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2013 09:54 Fruscainte wrote:On June 17 2013 09:21 Rainbow Cuddles wrote:
Can someone please explain to me how Microsoft thinks they're going to profit off doing things like this? I've tried to justify it for a while now & can't think of a solid argument to lock the system down so hard. All of this would be fine and dandy if Microsoft had no competitors and would really boost their profits. Microsoft is not a monopoly however and in fact have a strong competitor, so like you say, you can't really justify it. On June 17 2013 09:07 jinorazi wrote:
why is it that when speaking of xboxone digital distribution, they talk as if psn does not offer digital content...therefore xboxone is "looking ahead"
only difference i can see is, if you have a game disc, you can play however you want on ps4. if you have a game attached to your psn, i'd imagine it'll be no different than what ms is doing. the difference being, ps4 at least gives you both options meanwhile ms enforces digital licensing only.
i personally think used game sales is over, for me at least. i never buy used games again because to play online with used game, you must buy "online pass" for most of the games (serial key with the game disc that gets attached to your psn). so used game price + online pass = same as original price, so why bother with used game. Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure PS4 doesn't require anything in terms of used games. Pretty sure as long as you have PS+ you can just put any disc in and play. i dont know if it works with ps+ but thats a good benefit to have (i dont have ps+)
No I mean you need PS+ to play online with the PS4
I mean for all used games I'm quite sure you can just put a disc in and play, and if you have PS+ you can start playing online without any used game pass or any shit like that.
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On June 17 2013 10:12 Fruscainte wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2013 09:59 jinorazi wrote:On June 17 2013 09:54 Fruscainte wrote:On June 17 2013 09:21 Rainbow Cuddles wrote:
Can someone please explain to me how Microsoft thinks they're going to profit off doing things like this? I've tried to justify it for a while now & can't think of a solid argument to lock the system down so hard. All of this would be fine and dandy if Microsoft had no competitors and would really boost their profits. Microsoft is not a monopoly however and in fact have a strong competitor, so like you say, you can't really justify it. On June 17 2013 09:07 jinorazi wrote:
why is it that when speaking of xboxone digital distribution, they talk as if psn does not offer digital content...therefore xboxone is "looking ahead"
only difference i can see is, if you have a game disc, you can play however you want on ps4. if you have a game attached to your psn, i'd imagine it'll be no different than what ms is doing. the difference being, ps4 at least gives you both options meanwhile ms enforces digital licensing only.
i personally think used game sales is over, for me at least. i never buy used games again because to play online with used game, you must buy "online pass" for most of the games (serial key with the game disc that gets attached to your psn). so used game price + online pass = same as original price, so why bother with used game. Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure PS4 doesn't require anything in terms of used games. Pretty sure as long as you have PS+ you can just put any disc in and play. i dont know if it works with ps+ but thats a good benefit to have (i dont have ps+) No I mean you need PS+ to play online with the PS4 I mean for all used games I'm quite sure you can just put a disc in and play, and if you have PS+ you can start playing online without any used game pass or any shit like that.
for ps4, yes. i was saying i think sony plans on doing the same/similar thing ps3 to ps4 in terms of game disc/licensing.
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On June 17 2013 08:35 Leporello wrote:His premise seems to be that we should be glad that MS is making it's platform a DRM digital-distribution machine, because this will give Steam competition, which is really good for us consumers. But no it won't, and it isn't. This is not going to drive Steam's prices down any further, and Steam's sales are already some of the absolute best deals in gaming. Meanwhile, it's been confirmed that all the major titles on the console are going to be the standard $60 fare. But beyond that, there is nothing preventing MS (or Sony) from digitally-distributing their games without demanding it from consumers. The 360 lets players buy major-title games On-Demand -- but it doesn't demand players buy them that way. You can have both worlds. Even in the Steam comparison -- there are many games sold on Steam that don't even require Steam to run. Some games require Steam running, or even add their own layer of DRM -- it's really entire up to the games' producers. Steam Offline mode is a lot less restrictive that the Xbone check-in system. It's just not as great a comparison as MS wants it to be, and isn't going to be providing this theorized competition for consumers' benefit. They're still two different markets for two very different platforms. Again, it's like MS wants to sell people a 2nd, redundant PC, erasing all the benefits consoles have over PCs.
Did you even read the article? He did not even mention giving Steam competition, so I have no idea where you pulled that one from.
The difference with Sony and why Sony doesn't have this requirement is that you can't resell digital games on PS4. On Xbox One you can resell digital games. That's why the 24 hours check-in is needed.
Please actually read to article.
Imagine I go to my local store, purchase FIFA 14. I install it on my Xbox One and thus no longer need the game disc. If the system doesn’t require an online check after that point, I can take my copy of FIFA 14, return it to my game store and trade it in. I add a few more dollars and buy Titan Fall. I head home, install that. My Xbox now thinks I own both FIFA 14 and Titan Fall. Repeat and rinse till I own every game available for the platform. If the console isn’t checking online to make sure I haven’t given up my license to play the game, trade ins on a digital distribution platform would be impossible.
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In fact, there's another reason why the 24 hours check-in is required, which I mentioned here:
I think it's related to the ability to have another person logon to your Xbox One to play their games. Without it, they could logon, download their games to your Xbox One, then you can play those games offline forever, without having bought the games.
So without the 24 hours check-in, it would be possible for you to get every single Xbox One game for free, without paying a cent.
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It's their own fault for creating their own barriers so they can't even change some of the most hated things about the console. They are stuck with their decisions and the gamers will decide who to support based on it.
Also why are you making posts just to post stuff you alrdy posted before? That's literally an Ice Cube meme.
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On June 17 2013 08:38 sc4k wrote:The instant I picked up 'internship at Microsoft' in my cursory scan of the text I knew what to expect. Funnily enough, this piece perfectly explains why Microsoft have managed to simultaneously alienate users of services like Steam and users of physical discs. Just a horrible, poorly thought out and hollow attempt at changing the lanscape of gaming to their economic advantage under the guise of a badly constructed excuse of taking gaming forwards. An attempted ruse which looks set to fail drastically.
How has Microsoft alienated Steam users? As a Steam user, I'm glad that Microsoft is moving towards a more Steam-like system? In fact, my main problem is that they haven't gone far enough by killing resale completely and killing the disc. I would think that supporters of Steam (I have many gripes about Steam, although not with their game library system) would be supportive of what Microsoft is trying to do.
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Looks like Microsoft did not only paid people on reddit to talk positive about this terrible 650$(€) piece of shit.
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Does anyone know how PS3/PS4 handles this problem without the 24 hours check-in?
E.g. can I go to my friend's house, logon to my account on his PS3 or PS4, download every game in my library to his PS3 or PS4? Then log out and leave. So now I've allowed him to play every game I bought offline, for free, on his console.
Is this currently possible?
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EPT
