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On June 14 2013 06:16 jinorazi wrote:
ms can do whatever they wish but for example, people in the military will not be happy. ms is taking a calculated risk of having control over everything of smaller demographic, instead of having less control over bigger demographic. what will happen, we'll just have to wait and see. but initial pre-order sales and reactions do say ms pissed a lot of people off.
do understand all the anger is justified, just like how it was with bw going to sc2.
hardcore bw fans who knew the game the better than developers and new players were get shunned off like scrubs, "dont like sc2? go play bw"
same shit. at least we have a choice with this one.
The area that they are focused on feels too narrow to be successful. The only areas that can use the xbone are people with internet in western europe and NA.
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On June 14 2013 06:19 TheRabidDeer wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2013 06:16 jinorazi wrote:
ms can do whatever they wish but for example, people in the military will not be happy. ms is taking a calculated risk of having control over everything of smaller demographic, instead of having less control over bigger demographic. what will happen, we'll just have to wait and see. but initial pre-order sales and reactions do say ms pissed a lot of people off.
do understand all the anger is justified, just like how it was with bw going to sc2.
hardcore bw fans who knew the game the better than developers and new players were get shunned off like scrubs, "dont like sc2? go play bw"
same shit. at least we have a choice with this one. The area that they are focused on feels too narrow to be successful. The only areas that can use the xbone are people with internet in western europe and NA.
And to think they expect to sell 1 billion units considering the combined population of the 21 countries it's allowed to be played in is 930 million.
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People are arguing about the stability of connections in households, but that's beside the point.
I'm willing to bet money on Microsoft's authentication server crashing on the console's launch week. If EA, Ubisoft and Blizzard were unable to keep their servers up with single games, how can Microsoft with the worldwide launch of a new console?
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On June 14 2013 06:22 Ljas wrote:
People are arguing about the stability of connections in households, but that's beside the point.
I'm willing to bet money on Microsoft's authentication server crashing on the console's launch week. If EA, Ubisoft and Blizzard were unable to keep their servers up with single games, how can Microsoft with the worldwide launch of a new console?
Pretty sure that's why they are limiting the access to said Western European countries (except Portugal!) and North America + Australia.
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On June 14 2013 06:18 maartendq wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2013 06:00 Fruscainte wrote:On June 14 2013 05:56 maartendq wrote:On June 14 2013 05:52 Fruscainte wrote:On June 14 2013 05:50 maartendq wrote:On June 14 2013 05:40 Fruscainte wrote:On June 14 2013 05:27 takingbackoj wrote:On June 14 2013 05:21 Masheyoon wrote:[spoiler] ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/ftyPCdN.jpg) I hope M$ likes where you live... The price issue is accurate and a large blow to Xbox One. PS4 allows and leaves the decision of DRM up to third party developers. Does the Kinect watch you? Take the tinfoil hat off. Its no different than a cell phone. Requires internet. True and that is bad. Features that probably wont work? Lol, pathetic reach. If your internet dies its useless? See ONCE A DAY check in. And I would have never guess there were so many people with such bad internet to where they couldn't check in every 24 hours but still have enough internet to troll forums and complain about not having internet. Too funny. If I transport it to India? Hahaha, the comedy of the internet rage crowd is an amazing cross between funny and pitiful. Are you being paid for this? Serious question, considering the patents Microsoft filed say the explicit purpose of the Kinect is to watch you and data mine you so it can generate ad data specifically for you. Also, U.S. has the worst internet infrastructure in the developed world. I'd say having forced internet is quite a legitimate concern for its citizens. So, you mean like google does every time you use one of their search tools? Or like facebook does every time you "like" something. Or twitter, or pretty much anything on the internet? Even the ads on teamliquid are personalised (for those who don't run adblock, of course). And for the umpteenth time, there is no such thing as forced internet. All you have to do is ping microsoft once every 24 hours. I have this feeling that the majority of the people complaining about the online portion of the xbone are people who are online 24/7, be it on their computer, tablet or smartphone, and it's getting a bit annoying. So if you don't access the Xbox One with an internet connection once every 24 hours, you will be denied access to playing the games you purchased with your money? Even if it's a physical disc? That sounds like forced internet to me, chief. Yes, just like Blizzard does with Starcraft 2 (albeit after a week or so) and Steam does for its service as well. Besides, if you're a EU or US citizen, you'd have to literally be living in the middle of nowhere to not have an internet connection of some sort. It's quite ironic, actually, the vast majority of people complaining about the internet requirement belong to a generation that hasn't even lived in a pre-internet world. Except that's wrong. I logged into Steam just fine after booting my Desktop without any internet connection. In fact I played all of my singleplayer games just fine from Steam while completely offline. I don't know where you're getting this notion from that Steam locks you out if you don't "check in" online. Also, I live dead center in Orlando. Right next to UCF, you know, a major college. I also lived in the middle of Miami at one point in my life, also dealt with internet outages regularly during the summer there. You guys are whining that you want a more intellectual honest discussion but here you go again saying that the only reason anyone ever would not have internet is when they're in a third world country in a village that hasn't discovered it yet. As if there aren't dozens of places in the developed world where you can't access internet where you'd want to play an Xbox One and there are dozens of situations that would leave you without internet for a prolonged period of time. I fail to see how your last sentence is even remotely relevant to the situation at hand. If anything it seems like a half attempt at an ad hominem. You seem to just keep falling back on this idea that Microsoft says people who want to play without internet just aren't the customers for them and they should get a PS4 instead. What I don't understand is why Microsoft is doing this in the first freaking place. There's actually no reason other than forcing people to stay online so the Kinect can spy on you some more. EDIT: Google saving that I typed in "Asian Ass Porn" one day so that it knows I like asian ass porn for when it advertises to me is just a bit different, just slightly though, than a camera being put in my room that monitors my heartbeat, my emotions, my facial expressions, my personality, and scans my rooms for products to know what I enjoy so it can target advertisements toward me. Microft does this because it looks to long-term development, just like it did with Windows 8. It strongly believes that "more internet-based stuff" is what the future is going to be all about, and since the internet and its various applications have been continuingly expanding over the past twenty years, they have very good reason to believe that said trend will continue.
And I'd agree with that. Do promote great internet feature. Why should it mean 24h checks, region locks and whatever else ?
It's not like PS4 won't get online features.
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On June 14 2013 06:22 Ljas wrote:
People are arguing about the stability of connections in households, but that's beside the point.
I'm willing to bet money on Microsoft's authentication server crashing on the console's launch week. If EA, Ubisoft and Blizzard were unable to keep their servers up with single games, how can Microsoft with the worldwide launch of a new console?
I'm going to take a wild ass guess and also assume some group of hackers are going to go absolutely out of their way to crush the authentication servers at launch as well. The whole system is begging for someone to make a mockery of it.
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On June 14 2013 06:25 rezoacken wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2013 06:18 maartendq wrote:On June 14 2013 06:00 Fruscainte wrote:On June 14 2013 05:56 maartendq wrote:On June 14 2013 05:52 Fruscainte wrote:On June 14 2013 05:50 maartendq wrote:On June 14 2013 05:40 Fruscainte wrote:On June 14 2013 05:27 takingbackoj wrote:On June 14 2013 05:21 Masheyoon wrote:[spoiler] I hope M$ likes where you live... The price issue is accurate and a large blow to Xbox One. PS4 allows and leaves the decision of DRM up to third party developers. Does the Kinect watch you? Take the tinfoil hat off. Its no different than a cell phone. Requires internet. True and that is bad. Features that probably wont work? Lol, pathetic reach. If your internet dies its useless? See ONCE A DAY check in. And I would have never guess there were so many people with such bad internet to where they couldn't check in every 24 hours but still have enough internet to troll forums and complain about not having internet. Too funny. If I transport it to India? Hahaha, the comedy of the internet rage crowd is an amazing cross between funny and pitiful. Are you being paid for this? Serious question, considering the patents Microsoft filed say the explicit purpose of the Kinect is to watch you and data mine you so it can generate ad data specifically for you. Also, U.S. has the worst internet infrastructure in the developed world. I'd say having forced internet is quite a legitimate concern for its citizens. So, you mean like google does every time you use one of their search tools? Or like facebook does every time you "like" something. Or twitter, or pretty much anything on the internet? Even the ads on teamliquid are personalised (for those who don't run adblock, of course). And for the umpteenth time, there is no such thing as forced internet. All you have to do is ping microsoft once every 24 hours. I have this feeling that the majority of the people complaining about the online portion of the xbone are people who are online 24/7, be it on their computer, tablet or smartphone, and it's getting a bit annoying. So if you don't access the Xbox One with an internet connection once every 24 hours, you will be denied access to playing the games you purchased with your money? Even if it's a physical disc? That sounds like forced internet to me, chief. Yes, just like Blizzard does with Starcraft 2 (albeit after a week or so) and Steam does for its service as well. Besides, if you're a EU or US citizen, you'd have to literally be living in the middle of nowhere to not have an internet connection of some sort. It's quite ironic, actually, the vast majority of people complaining about the internet requirement belong to a generation that hasn't even lived in a pre-internet world. Except that's wrong. I logged into Steam just fine after booting my Desktop without any internet connection. In fact I played all of my singleplayer games just fine from Steam while completely offline. I don't know where you're getting this notion from that Steam locks you out if you don't "check in" online. Also, I live dead center in Orlando. Right next to UCF, you know, a major college. I also lived in the middle of Miami at one point in my life, also dealt with internet outages regularly during the summer there. You guys are whining that you want a more intellectual honest discussion but here you go again saying that the only reason anyone ever would not have internet is when they're in a third world country in a village that hasn't discovered it yet. As if there aren't dozens of places in the developed world where you can't access internet where you'd want to play an Xbox One and there are dozens of situations that would leave you without internet for a prolonged period of time. I fail to see how your last sentence is even remotely relevant to the situation at hand. If anything it seems like a half attempt at an ad hominem. You seem to just keep falling back on this idea that Microsoft says people who want to play without internet just aren't the customers for them and they should get a PS4 instead. What I don't understand is why Microsoft is doing this in the first freaking place. There's actually no reason other than forcing people to stay online so the Kinect can spy on you some more. EDIT: Google saving that I typed in "Asian Ass Porn" one day so that it knows I like asian ass porn for when it advertises to me is just a bit different, just slightly though, than a camera being put in my room that monitors my heartbeat, my emotions, my facial expressions, my personality, and scans my rooms for products to know what I enjoy so it can target advertisements toward me. Microft does this because it looks to long-term development, just like it did with Windows 8. It strongly believes that "more internet-based stuff" is what the future is going to be all about, and since the internet and its various applications have been continuingly expanding over the past twenty years, they have very good reason to believe that said trend will continue. And I'd agree with that. Do promote great internet feature. Why should it mean 24h checks, region locks and whatever else ? It's not like PS4 won't get online features.
I'd argue that the PS4 has better online features, but that's not really the purpose of this thread.
It seems MS is trying to be futuristic for the sake of being futuristic, not because there's actual progress.
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On June 14 2013 06:18 maartendq wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2013 06:00 Fruscainte wrote:On June 14 2013 05:56 maartendq wrote:On June 14 2013 05:52 Fruscainte wrote:On June 14 2013 05:50 maartendq wrote:On June 14 2013 05:40 Fruscainte wrote:On June 14 2013 05:27 takingbackoj wrote:On June 14 2013 05:21 Masheyoon wrote:[spoiler] I hope M$ likes where you live... The price issue is accurate and a large blow to Xbox One. PS4 allows and leaves the decision of DRM up to third party developers. Does the Kinect watch you? Take the tinfoil hat off. Its no different than a cell phone. Requires internet. True and that is bad. Features that probably wont work? Lol, pathetic reach. If your internet dies its useless? See ONCE A DAY check in. And I would have never guess there were so many people with such bad internet to where they couldn't check in every 24 hours but still have enough internet to troll forums and complain about not having internet. Too funny. If I transport it to India? Hahaha, the comedy of the internet rage crowd is an amazing cross between funny and pitiful. Are you being paid for this? Serious question, considering the patents Microsoft filed say the explicit purpose of the Kinect is to watch you and data mine you so it can generate ad data specifically for you. Also, U.S. has the worst internet infrastructure in the developed world. I'd say having forced internet is quite a legitimate concern for its citizens. So, you mean like google does every time you use one of their search tools? Or like facebook does every time you "like" something. Or twitter, or pretty much anything on the internet? Even the ads on teamliquid are personalised (for those who don't run adblock, of course). And for the umpteenth time, there is no such thing as forced internet. All you have to do is ping microsoft once every 24 hours. I have this feeling that the majority of the people complaining about the online portion of the xbone are people who are online 24/7, be it on their computer, tablet or smartphone, and it's getting a bit annoying. So if you don't access the Xbox One with an internet connection once every 24 hours, you will be denied access to playing the games you purchased with your money? Even if it's a physical disc? That sounds like forced internet to me, chief. Yes, just like Blizzard does with Starcraft 2 (albeit after a week or so) and Steam does for its service as well. Besides, if you're a EU or US citizen, you'd have to literally be living in the middle of nowhere to not have an internet connection of some sort. It's quite ironic, actually, the vast majority of people complaining about the internet requirement belong to a generation that hasn't even lived in a pre-internet world. Except that's wrong. I logged into Steam just fine after booting my Desktop without any internet connection. In fact I played all of my singleplayer games just fine from Steam while completely offline. I don't know where you're getting this notion from that Steam locks you out if you don't "check in" online. Also, I live dead center in Orlando. Right next to UCF, you know, a major college. I also lived in the middle of Miami at one point in my life, also dealt with internet outages regularly during the summer there. You guys are whining that you want a more intellectual honest discussion but here you go again saying that the only reason anyone ever would not have internet is when they're in a third world country in a village that hasn't discovered it yet. As if there aren't dozens of places in the developed world where you can't access internet where you'd want to play an Xbox One and there are dozens of situations that would leave you without internet for a prolonged period of time. I fail to see how your last sentence is even remotely relevant to the situation at hand. If anything it seems like a half attempt at an ad hominem. You seem to just keep falling back on this idea that Microsoft says people who want to play without internet just aren't the customers for them and they should get a PS4 instead. What I don't understand is why Microsoft is doing this in the first freaking place. There's actually no reason other than forcing people to stay online so the Kinect can spy on you some more. EDIT: Google saving that I typed in "Asian Ass Porn" one day so that it knows I like asian ass porn for when it advertises to me is just a bit different, just slightly though, than a camera being put in my room that monitors my heartbeat, my emotions, my facial expressions, my personality, and scans my rooms for products to know what I enjoy so it can target advertisements toward me. Microft does this because it looks to long-term development, just like it did with Windows 8. It strongly believes that "more internet-based stuff" is what the future is going to be all about, and since the internet and its various applications have been continuingly expanding over the past twenty years, they have very good reason to believe that said trend will continue.
That's cool if you want to add more internet based things. Nobody is going to criticize your company for that. However you FORCING it upon people is bad. Consumers want options. That's extremely simple. We want integration that's positive not negative. Forcing me to do things is negative.
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i'm completely fine with always online and it does have its goods, the problem is you can't opt out.
i mean shit, does your computer games become completely useless without internet?
you can still play vs ai or something, watch replays...but ms is saying "nope, no internet for 24 hours = no game"
why couldnt they just say leave it online for full experience but you can unplug it if you'd like. why have this requirement? only thing i can think of is the little piracy scene that exists. or the super futuristic cloud computing, maybe something similar to what simcity 5 did to greatly impress us. (but no, it was for anti-piracy)
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On June 14 2013 06:22 Ljas wrote:
People are arguing about the stability of connections in households, but that's beside the point.
I'm willing to bet money on Microsoft's authentication server crashing on the console's launch week. If EA, Ubisoft and Blizzard were unable to keep their servers up with single games, how can Microsoft with the worldwide launch of a new console?
To be fair, people have to buy the console for this to happen.
In seriousness, if they really get up to 300k servers by launch they should be able to handle authentication.
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On June 14 2013 06:30 jinorazi wrote:
i'm completely fine with always online and it does have its goods, the problem is you can't opt out.
i mean shit, does your computer games become completely useless without internet?
you can still play vs ai or something, watch replays...but ms is saying "nope, no internet for 24 hours = no game"
why couldnt they just say leave it online for full experience but you can unplug it if you'd like. why have this requirement? only thing i can think of is the little piracy scene that exists.
There is no benefit to always online unless literally everyone in the world has access to internet consistently. There is not a single thing positive about forcing consumers to stay online to use your product, thus limiting Eastern Europe, the entirety of Asia (including Japan), the entirety of the Middle East, the entirety of Africa, and most of Central America and South of America from using your product.
As for why they're doing it, they want you to make sure you Kinect is connected to the server so it can transfer ad data to them. It's a bit tin foily but I'm pretty sure they're limiting access to Western European countries and North America because they want to see how the flow of data will be and have some early testing in that regard.
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On June 14 2013 06:30 jinorazi wrote:
maybe something similar to what simcity 5 did to greatly impress us
I can't say I was too impressed with what SimCity did. All that severside AI calculation was just hogwash, the game sent a small packet every now and then to check that it's still connected to their authentication server.
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i do see benefit in always online, automatic updates so it updates on its own and not when i turn it on to play.
pre-orders automatically being installed, cloud that can be synced for music or whatever, etc.
but the option to simply turn it off should be there.
*simcity comment was sarcasm XD
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On June 14 2013 06:36 jinorazi wrote:
i do see benefit in always online, automatic updates so it updates on its own and not when i turn it on to play.
pre-orders automatically being installed, cloud that can be synced for music or whatever, etc.
You can do all those things whenever the user connects to the server, without forcing him to be online all the time.
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On June 14 2013 06:37 Ljas wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2013 06:36 jinorazi wrote:
i do see benefit in always online, automatic updates so it updates on its own and not when i turn it on to play.
pre-orders automatically being installed, cloud that can be synced for music or whatever, etc.
You can do all those things whenever the user connects to the server, without forcing him to be online all the time.
"but the option to simply turn it off should be there." as in update whenever i want
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On June 14 2013 06:33 TheRabidDeer wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2013 06:22 Ljas wrote:
People are arguing about the stability of connections in households, but that's beside the point.
I'm willing to bet money on Microsoft's authentication server crashing on the console's launch week. If EA, Ubisoft and Blizzard were unable to keep their servers up with single games, how can Microsoft with the worldwide launch of a new console? To be fair, people have to buy the console for this to happen. In seriousness, if they really get up to 300k servers by launch they should be able to handle authentication.
They're not going to have 300k servers. They're only going to have a fraction of that in terms of machines and then split them all into 300k virtual servers.
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On June 14 2013 03:15 takingbackoj wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2013 03:05 OuchyDathurts wrote:
The online connectivity is a damning issue for the Xbone though. The price and DRM might be arguably larger issues but that is a major strike against it. Microsoft decided to shit the bed so hard here it's mind blowing. The internet infrastructure is pretty awful in the US, let alone places where soldiers might be deployed, which is an actual problem.
If the Xbone and PS4 were exactly the same besides the connectivity why would anyone in their right mind buy the Xbone? The 360 was great, much better than the PS3 IMO, my PS3 has been collecting dust forever. But they fucking ruined themselves this time around. Once you add all the other shitty "features" no one asked for there is no logical reason to buy one. I'll buy Titanfall on PC thx, now you have nothing I'm remotely interested in.
It's not that the PS4 is some amazing, life saving, god touched contraption, it's that the Xbone is such a piece of shit as to be laughable.
And technically an Xbox employee could fix it. An executive could say "ok, this is retarded guys, we need to backtrack here." But you're never going to fully undo the image you've made of yourselves and odds are that's not going to happen. But they've made their bed, now they'll have to lie in it for ~7 years and try again.
But they couldn't fix it without changing everything else about it. Online check-in is essential for most of it's other feature to work properly. And they arent going to shelve the Xbox One and rework it completely because of the people without internet. They have a specific direction they want to go and the online check in is necessary for that direction.
And yes it is damning to those that don't have internet, I agree with you, but what is the point in discussing it? If you don't have internet then you shouldn't buy it, discussing it on a forum isn't going to fix your issue, you arent going to "see the light" and buy it because it wouldn't work for you. Again, thats cut and dry.If it were price, maybe you could be swayed, or drm or exclusives but online check in isn't going to change so if you don't have internet, it would be dumb to buy an Xbox One plain and simple. But obviously this isn't about actual issues for most. As I have said before, PS4 is the better option in my opinion but all of these people coming out of the woodwork without internet are ridiculous and the majority are just looking to jump on the rage train going on. Either that are a large portion of internet users somehow don't have internet.
Offer free internet? 
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On June 14 2013 06:38 jinorazi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2013 06:37 Ljas wrote:On June 14 2013 06:36 jinorazi wrote:
i do see benefit in always online, automatic updates so it updates on its own and not when i turn it on to play.
pre-orders automatically being installed, cloud that can be synced for music or whatever, etc.
You can do all those things whenever the user connects to the server, without forcing him to be online all the time. "but the option to simply turn it off should be there."
It still doesn't make the first paragraph true. Those are not benefits of always online, they're just benefits of having an internet connection of any sort.
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On June 14 2013 06:35 Ljas wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2013 06:30 jinorazi wrote:
maybe something similar to what simcity 5 did to greatly impress us I can't say I was too impressed with what SimCity did. All that severside AI calculation was just hogwash, the game sent a small packet every now and then to check that it's still connected to their authentication server.
Yeah, things like "cloud computing" and "cloud rendering" are horseshit. If they even exist we don't have the internet infrastructure in the U.S. to use them. I mean, WoW relegates all of it's server power to doing simple arithmetic and dice rolls, all the other stuff is client side. Do we honestly think that we can be pumping the computation required to do HD graphics rendering through "the cloud" without heinous latency?
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On June 14 2013 06:41 Ljas wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2013 06:38 jinorazi wrote:On June 14 2013 06:37 Ljas wrote:On June 14 2013 06:36 jinorazi wrote:
i do see benefit in always online, automatic updates so it updates on its own and not when i turn it on to play.
pre-orders automatically being installed, cloud that can be synced for music or whatever, etc.
You can do all those things whenever the user connects to the server, without forcing him to be online all the time. "but the option to simply turn it off should be there." It still doesn't make the first paragraph true. Those are not benefits of always online, they're just benefits of having an internet connection of any sort.
but only possible if its always online, or during the time period that i'm not using the device, so it doesnt get in the way when i'm trying to play a game or watch movies. i always get annoyed when i try to play a game and it says "game must be updated". so, always online would help in this matter, if implemented correctly.
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EPT
