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On June 12 2013 02:04 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2013 02:01 Stratos_speAr wrote:On June 12 2013 01:55 xDaunt wrote:Whatever. People need to relax. This isn't just some private conversation or an extremely small, niche market event. This is one of the biggest and most covered video game events of the year. So yea, when you have a dialog that furthers stereotypes and mimics scenarios of sexual abuse, people are going to be justified in being upset. I can't even imagine how stiff people must be to have perceived the conversation that way in real time. It's like they're trying to find politically incorrect things to complain about.
My first thought when the dude said, "Just relax it'll be over soon" was, "Oh shit, people are gonna get pissed."
If you can't see how this is offensive, you're simply ignorant about social dynamics.
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On June 12 2013 03:04 Stratos_speAr wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2013 02:04 xDaunt wrote:On June 12 2013 02:01 Stratos_speAr wrote:On June 12 2013 01:55 xDaunt wrote:Whatever. People need to relax. This isn't just some private conversation or an extremely small, niche market event. This is one of the biggest and most covered video game events of the year. So yea, when you have a dialog that furthers stereotypes and mimics scenarios of sexual abuse, people are going to be justified in being upset. I can't even imagine how stiff people must be to have perceived the conversation that way in real time. It's like they're trying to find politically incorrect things to complain about. My first thought when the dude said, "Just relax it'll be over soon" was, "Oh shit, people are gonna get pissed." If you can't see how this is offensive, you're simply ignorant about social dynamics.
'Social dynamics'
Did you mean the social dynamics of rape comments or the social dynamics of mindlessly joining in when someone is being beaten down?
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On June 12 2013 03:07 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2013 03:04 Stratos_speAr wrote:On June 12 2013 02:04 xDaunt wrote:On June 12 2013 02:01 Stratos_speAr wrote:On June 12 2013 01:55 xDaunt wrote:Whatever. People need to relax. This isn't just some private conversation or an extremely small, niche market event. This is one of the biggest and most covered video game events of the year. So yea, when you have a dialog that furthers stereotypes and mimics scenarios of sexual abuse, people are going to be justified in being upset. I can't even imagine how stiff people must be to have perceived the conversation that way in real time. It's like they're trying to find politically incorrect things to complain about. My first thought when the dude said, "Just relax it'll be over soon" was, "Oh shit, people are gonna get pissed." If you can't see how this is offensive, you're simply ignorant about social dynamics. 'Social dynamics' Did you mean the social dynamics of rape comments or the social dynamics of mindlessly joining in when someone is being beaten down?
The social dynamics of rape comments, how offensive they actually are outside of our little gaming world, and how incredibly sexist the gaming world actually is. Rape jokes are absolutely unacceptable anywhere else in society, and so gamers need to accept that when you are on a massively covered stage like E3, you don't just get to make rape jokes like you do on your couch with your buddies or behind the safety of your anonymous gamer tag online. The comments that were made by the two people playing were 1) incredibly indicative of stereotypes that portray females as sucking at games and 2) right in step with the attitudes and/or comments you'll here about sexual abuse cases. I personally didn't care that much (even if I noticed), but to tell other people that they are blowing this out of proportion when it was incredibly obvious that those comments would be reminiscent of those issues is just insulting.
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i just realized that i bought all my systems upon release of every other new tekken series and i have no doubt it'll be the same again XD
metal gear solid is calling me out though...
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On June 12 2013 03:12 Stratos_speAr wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2013 03:07 Jockmcplop wrote:On June 12 2013 03:04 Stratos_speAr wrote:On June 12 2013 02:04 xDaunt wrote:On June 12 2013 02:01 Stratos_speAr wrote:On June 12 2013 01:55 xDaunt wrote:Whatever. People need to relax. This isn't just some private conversation or an extremely small, niche market event. This is one of the biggest and most covered video game events of the year. So yea, when you have a dialog that furthers stereotypes and mimics scenarios of sexual abuse, people are going to be justified in being upset. I can't even imagine how stiff people must be to have perceived the conversation that way in real time. It's like they're trying to find politically incorrect things to complain about. My first thought when the dude said, "Just relax it'll be over soon" was, "Oh shit, people are gonna get pissed." If you can't see how this is offensive, you're simply ignorant about social dynamics. 'Social dynamics' Did you mean the social dynamics of rape comments or the social dynamics of mindlessly joining in when someone is being beaten down? The social dynamics of rape comments, how offensive they actually are outside of our little gaming world, and how incredibly sexist the gaming world actually is. Rape jokes are absolutely unacceptable anywhere else in society, and so gamers need to accept that when you are on a massively covered stage like E3, you don't just get to make rape jokes like you do on your couch with your buddies or behind the safety of your anonymous gamer tag online.
I would advise you to never, ever watch any sketch by monty python and to never watch any episode of south park or family guy, because each of these shows make fun of any and all religions, handicaps and handicapped people, jews, the holocaust, hitler, etc.
I also fail to see how anyone can be insulted by anything that does not personally affect them.
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On June 12 2013 02:26 paralleluniverse wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2013 00:49 Blisse wrote:On June 12 2013 00:34 Stratos_speAr wrote:On June 12 2013 00:24 takingbackoj wrote:On June 12 2013 00:20 Kurr wrote:On June 12 2013 00:13 takingbackoj wrote:
Despite what the over dramatic gamer crowd wants to believe, the truth is, Xbox will be fine. PS4 did a much better job of focusing on the gamer crowd, but Xbox one's target isn't the people who watched E3. They have focused on people who will see the applications of Xbox outside of gaming and say "man, those features are pretty cool and I can play some games on it." They have decided, it seems, to play the middle ground between PS4 and WiiU and trying to attract a broader audience while unlike Nintendo, also still putting out quality games and intergrating their extra features into the everyday entertainment of most people.
It will most likely work and all of this Xbone lost the war stuff will look even more dumb after release. Again, neither will die, they will both do fine. Yeah, consoles never flop, especially when popular companies release them... OH WAIT : Dreamcast Vita Virtual Boy Jaguar Atari 5200/7800 CD-i N-Gage Sega 32X And other smaller ones Nope, never happened to any big companies. Big companies? Haha, none of those companies are even remotely comparable to MS. And you should go find out why exactly those systems flopped. I'll give you a hint, it had nothing to to with any of the issues Xbox One has. Really bad analogy. Sega was very well-known in the console community back in the day. MS's clout comes from its OS dominance, especially since the XBox has consistently flopped outside of the U.S. Even if the issues are the same, those examples show that big companies are hardly invincible, and mindless faith in the XBox thriving is pretty naive. It's not mindless faith in the XBox thriving, it's that the Xbox isn't going to crash and burn like most people keep talking about. If I were buying the Xbox, I'm not buying it because the PS4 blows it out of the water. I'm buying it because it has some cool stuff with the Kinect that I would want to try out because it's neat (like the Wii kinda put out there), and it has a lot of newer games that look interesting to me. I have absolutely no care what used game stuff it has because I never buy or play used games. I don't care what always-on DRM it has because I'm honestly never offline at home. I don't really care about your "what-if" scenarios because they don't apply to me. Like, I get that you guys think it's a bad business practice to have these online-always shenanigans because it does limit the number of people who can use it, but in reality if you're on TeamLiquid or Reddit debating it already it's rarely going to affect you. I would even go so far as to say only 0.001% of the users would ever notice the lack of online-ness, unless people actively try to shit on the system like with the Simcity launch because our first world societies today are basically always online, and if you are ever offline you bitch at your ISP for its failure. In the future, we will think of the Internet like how we think of our power grid today, and that's the kind of thing that MS is trying to say with shit like this. Okay, you're completely shitting on countries that don't have stable Internet systems, but that is pretty much the case for every online game on your computer. You can't really play LoL without Internet, so it really shouldn't be a problem not to expect generic AAA title on the Xbox to only be played with the Internet. It's just that there's this stigma attached to consoles where it should be a separate thing from a PC and be usable without the Internet, but this is the direction MS thinks the future will be like. Take a look at the mobile space and you see the same thing right? Farmville is unusable without Internet. I have a few MS games on my phone that aren't usable without Internet. If you've seen some tech-y movies, a lot of things require a stable upstream somewhere in order to work. No Internet, no dice. It's that kind of future MS is trying to push towards, which is understandable. And it's pretty shitty for a lot of consumers now, but at least you can see what they're trying to do and what they're doing wrong instead of shitting all over the company for things that they're intentionally doing in order to achieve the vision they seem to have set out. I agree. Firstly, I think I'm fairly objective on this Microsoft vs Sony issue, as I don't own or plan to buy any of these consoles. People should really get over the Xbox One online requirement (which isn't even always online). There are many benefits to requiring always online: -Having one unified community (compare everyone playing SC2 using B.net with SC1 where some played via pirate servers, some played via LAN, some played via Hamachi, some played single player, some played on B,net, etc.). -Achievements. -Being easily able to chat with other people, quicker updates. -Access to game library anywhere with internet and automatically with synchronized saves. -And in the future, some of the calculations needed for games or to render graphics can be shifted from the computer/console onto a supercomputer on the cloud. -More data about play patterns helps developers design games (many changes in WoW are based on data, e.g. when to nerf raid bosses can sometimes depend on success rates). -If you look at the demonstration here, Kinect could be used to detect when exactly people are getting frustrated with the game. This can lead to better game design or patches. After what happened today, Microsoft is screwed because Sony has jumped on the outraged gamers bandwagon. Indeed, Sony's used game policy seems completely based on the Microsoft backlash. Before this press conference, they said it was up to developers (basically the same as Xbox One). Now they're suddenly fully embracing used games. But the problem is Sony is wrong and Microsoft is right. Like PC or Steam, restricting used games and requiring online is a good thing, not a bad thing. In fact, restricting resale will lower costs for developers or increase revenues, and this I think should lead to lower prices due to competition. I don't think the monopoly excuse works, because Microsoft doesn't set the price, developers do. And no developer has a monopoly. Developers will have to compete with each other. Sony made a big deal of embracing "disc based games". That term was used over and over in their conference. It was epitomized in their hilarious used game demonstration video. But that's the problem. Disc's are last decades technology. I don't think I've physically seen a disc in the last 3 years of my life--that's how obsolete discs are. Xbox One uses a centralized account where all games and saves are on the cloud, discs aren't required. Since Sony haven't announced that all games will be available digitally from release day, unlike Microsoft, Sony is stuck in the past with its use of discs. And it's all just to appeal to the misguided and wrongheaded outrage over Microsoft restricting used games. Still, Microsoft is screwed. It has only 2 options to turn this around: 1. Better exclusive games. 2. Cheaper games and cheaper costs. They can easily do the second due to their "DRM" features and the potential for ads. Here's what I would get Microsoft to do if I were in charge: They should announce no game resale (not even once), no physical distribution of games ever (i.e. no game discs. OK, maybe a box with a code on a piece of paper would be acceptable), and always online. Then they should announce always online will allow the use of cloud computing to produce better framerates and gameplay. Moreover, using the money they saved from these features, they should announce that games will sell for between $10 to $50 and prices will reduce as games get older, much cheaper than the usual and unchanging $60 which Sony will almost surely charge. In short, Microsoft now has the ability to easily undercut Sony on game prices and the capacity to make better games and better graphics with the use of cloud computing. They should make this clear. Another way that Microsoft could reduce costs to consumers is to have an ads and no ads version (like Kindle). You could have the option to either buy a cheaper console or perhaps a cheaper subscription with ads. The ads version could significantly reduce costs to the consumer if it used the Kinect to record information to target ads. Moreover, Microsoft could sell anonymous information for money, hence further reducing the cost for the people who optionally choose to use the ads version. The fact is that the Kinect is a gold mine for advertisers. And ads reduce costs. Hell, in the case of TV, ads reduce costs to $0.
That's for being online.
Not for being online DRM'ed
You must not play games with online DRM to say all this. People that play Simcity 5 or Heroes VI(or any other Ubisoft games recently) will know what a HUGE PAIN IN THE ASS it is when you need to be online every time you play.
Every games on Xbox one will be like SC2 now, you buy the game and it bind of pickup to you. Noone can play it expect you which totally destroy the traditional of disc based game.
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Hmms going to be a dinosaur here, but my last console was a PS2 (fuck yeah SSX).
Does Kinect really change how people game? A quick google search of current Kinect games would suggest not. I mean dance sims and shit are cool i guess, but really they are pretty fucking shallow games. And I can just go dancing most nights out (or play sports etc). Hell I play games to do stuff I can't do in real life. That's why they are awesome.
I am willing to be swayed.
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its not rape till microsoft presses charges.
what happened to free speech
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On June 12 2013 03:16 MoonfireSpam wrote:
Hmms going to be a dinosaur here, but my last console was a PS2 (fuck yeah SSX).
Does Kinect really change how people game? A quick google search of current Kinect games would suggest not. I mean dance sims and shit are cool i guess, but really they are pretty fucking shallow games. And I can just go dancing most nights out (or play sports etc). Hell I play games to do stuff I can't do in real life. That's why they are awesome.
I am willing to be swayed.
If you consider yourself a gamer, you'll most likely considered the kinect a piece of crap. Whether or not kinect 2.0 have made enough enhancements to not suck for games remains to be seen. I can't say the Microsoft press conference convinced me of otherwise.
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On June 12 2013 02:53 paralleluniverse wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2013 02:39 maartendq wrote:On June 12 2013 02:36 nihlon wrote:On June 12 2013 02:28 maartendq wrote:On June 12 2013 02:14 FakeDeath wrote:
Overall though, Microsoft got destroyed by Sony at the conference.
DRM/Used game policy really put a nail in the coffin there at the XBONE.
Of course it won't crash and burn.
But it won't sold well except at maybe in the US now.
Even your average people will pick PS4 over XBONE now.
Simply because it is cheaper now and DRM/Used Game issue.
Quite bluntly, Sony leaves the DRM stuff to the publishers. I think that we'll be seeing a lot more variation's on EA's online pass in the future. Sure you'll be able to buy second hand games, but if you want to take them online (or activate the single player), you'll have to pay extra. Publishers would really like nothing more than to see the current second hand market model for console games utterly destroyed. One of the main reasons steam is as popular as it is, is the fact that every game is tied to an account and you cannot resell it. Eh no, it's not popular because it's tied to an account and because you can't resell it. That's a consequence of the buisness model, not the reason why people like it. Unless you talk about popularity for publishers? I was talking about Steam's popularity with publishers. The fact that the games are tied to one account is rather annoying. Yet no one complains.
Because Steam understands that by making resale impossible they are reducing the value of their games...so they've reduced their prices on A LOT of their games. Even their triple AAA titles are given a discount with pre-order or you get a discount for buying on release day. And then they're on sale within a couple of months. Yeah, Steam has DRM and security, but they compensate customers for it. Microsoft wants DRM and security without actually adding any other value to their product.
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On June 12 2013 03:04 Stratos_speAr wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2013 02:04 xDaunt wrote:On June 12 2013 02:01 Stratos_speAr wrote:On June 12 2013 01:55 xDaunt wrote:Whatever. People need to relax. This isn't just some private conversation or an extremely small, niche market event. This is one of the biggest and most covered video game events of the year. So yea, when you have a dialog that furthers stereotypes and mimics scenarios of sexual abuse, people are going to be justified in being upset. I can't even imagine how stiff people must be to have perceived the conversation that way in real time. It's like they're trying to find politically incorrect things to complain about. My first thought when the dude said, "Just relax it'll be over soon" was, "Oh shit, people are gonna get pissed." If you can't see how this is offensive, you're simply ignorant about social dynamics.
Offensive yes? Should you be offended? no. It's a fucking joke.
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i think steam does good because of its sales/deals.
not because of DRM or some other thing.
i've never ever bought a game at full price unless its my core games but i did spend good amount on steam because of good deals though i'm a veteran pirate.
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On June 12 2013 03:30 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2013 03:04 Stratos_speAr wrote:On June 12 2013 02:04 xDaunt wrote:On June 12 2013 02:01 Stratos_speAr wrote:On June 12 2013 01:55 xDaunt wrote:Whatever. People need to relax. This isn't just some private conversation or an extremely small, niche market event. This is one of the biggest and most covered video game events of the year. So yea, when you have a dialog that furthers stereotypes and mimics scenarios of sexual abuse, people are going to be justified in being upset. I can't even imagine how stiff people must be to have perceived the conversation that way in real time. It's like they're trying to find politically incorrect things to complain about. My first thought when the dude said, "Just relax it'll be over soon" was, "Oh shit, people are gonna get pissed." If you can't see how this is offensive, you're simply ignorant about social dynamics. Offensive yes? Should you be offended? no. It's a fucking joke.
I honestly feel like these people go out of their way to find potentially politically incorrect statements to whine about online. I just don't get it honestly. I saw some post on Tumblr of this girl freaking out saying her friend was having rape flashbacks and locked herself in her room after hearing that joke because she was raped 7 times in her life or something. Like fucking really? I'm kind of hoping it was a joke but a lot of people go that crazy about these kinds of things.
It was horribly executed, clearly scripted, and it's funny to think Microsoft had to have a business meeting discussing this script and someone brought that poorly constructed joke up. But that's all it was, was a joke. Meant to simulate some friendly banter between friends. Calling us "ignorant" about "social dynamics" because we don't instantly get thrown up in arms over someone making a bantering joke while playing a competitive multiplayer game is just silly though.
To try and stay ontopic though, I'm wondering what Microsofts approach to this will be. I'm kind of feeling the only way they can come out of this successful is if they completely drop the privacy shit and drop the price, because even the Xbox Live fee is more than the PS+ fee. It's just really stacking in Sony's favor.
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On June 12 2013 03:28 Klondikebar wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2013 02:53 paralleluniverse wrote:On June 12 2013 02:39 maartendq wrote:On June 12 2013 02:36 nihlon wrote:On June 12 2013 02:28 maartendq wrote:On June 12 2013 02:14 FakeDeath wrote:
Overall though, Microsoft got destroyed by Sony at the conference.
DRM/Used game policy really put a nail in the coffin there at the XBONE.
Of course it won't crash and burn.
But it won't sold well except at maybe in the US now.
Even your average people will pick PS4 over XBONE now.
Simply because it is cheaper now and DRM/Used Game issue.
Quite bluntly, Sony leaves the DRM stuff to the publishers. I think that we'll be seeing a lot more variation's on EA's online pass in the future. Sure you'll be able to buy second hand games, but if you want to take them online (or activate the single player), you'll have to pay extra. Publishers would really like nothing more than to see the current second hand market model for console games utterly destroyed. One of the main reasons steam is as popular as it is, is the fact that every game is tied to an account and you cannot resell it. Eh no, it's not popular because it's tied to an account and because you can't resell it. That's a consequence of the buisness model, not the reason why people like it. Unless you talk about popularity for publishers? I was talking about Steam's popularity with publishers. The fact that the games are tied to one account is rather annoying. Yet no one complains. Because Steam understands that by making resale impossible they are reducing the value of their games...so they've reduced their prices on A LOT of their games. Even their triple AAA titles are given a discount with pre-order or you get a discount for buying on release day. And then they're on sale within a couple of months. Yeah, Steam has DRM and security, but they compensate customers for it. Microsoft wants DRM and security without actually adding any other value to their product.
I think what make Steam popular is it was one of the first one with the idea of letting people get away from physical copy and download the games and play from the get go.
Also, Valve's reputation brought alot to its success too, as well as like you said, having huge sales on so many occassion per year. When people see value they will pay. I probably never picked up some of the games that I have now on steam if it was not for those sales they have.
Steam also did not being a total ass and let you play offline as well. Things like Uplay or Orbit are what make me sad -_-.
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Extremely good post Blisse and Stratos. I don't own MS or sony stock. I have owned every PS and Xbox since they came out and will buy both of them this time around. I have no horse in this race, but as I explained before, MS is trying to appeal to the broader audience. As Blisse pointed out, Sony did an excellent job at jumping aboard the internet rage train against MS and kudos to them for it but MS is going after people that didn't even care enough to watch E3. They are going after people with a little disposable income that are looking for something to enhance their entertainment centers and play a few good games.
Now with that being said, I don't think MS alienated gamers in the long run, they just didn't do them any favors either. Its not like Nintendo who after putting out the best system of its time with the 64, started a gradual downslide from the gamecube on in reference to games. MS will still have very good games that gamers will want to play.
Again, as Blisse pointed out MS is going to have to, and in a position to, really distance itself with exclusive content whether it be games, DLC, or non-gaming related features. Also, they need to do a better job explaining the positives of always online (yes there are some positives). If you think about it, always online gives some incredible options if they decide to use it properly game wise. Also, if the Live/PSN discrepancy still exists, that is still a huge positive to Xbox.
All in all, Xbox is far from dead. They took a large pr hit but they aren't dead. Their target audience probably didn't even watch E3. They know Xbox, they like the way Xbox feels and plays online, they like the extra features, and they are willing to spend the extra dough.
In my eyes, PS4 took a big lead, but I intended on buying them both as usual and nothing changed my mind about it. They will both have great games, they will both have their value but the thing about Xbox is, they have the cash and the infrastructure, with the always online deal and added features, to really amp up the experience in new ways for hardcore gamers and casual gamers alike. If MS can sit down and say "yeah we are more costly and yeah you have to always be online, but we are going to make it worth your while", if they can be innovative enough, the ceiling is higher imo for Xbox One than PS4. Many more possibilities for Xbox.
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On June 12 2013 03:36 Caphe wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2013 03:28 Klondikebar wrote:On June 12 2013 02:53 paralleluniverse wrote:On June 12 2013 02:39 maartendq wrote:On June 12 2013 02:36 nihlon wrote:On June 12 2013 02:28 maartendq wrote:On June 12 2013 02:14 FakeDeath wrote:
Overall though, Microsoft got destroyed by Sony at the conference.
DRM/Used game policy really put a nail in the coffin there at the XBONE.
Of course it won't crash and burn.
But it won't sold well except at maybe in the US now.
Even your average people will pick PS4 over XBONE now.
Simply because it is cheaper now and DRM/Used Game issue.
Quite bluntly, Sony leaves the DRM stuff to the publishers. I think that we'll be seeing a lot more variation's on EA's online pass in the future. Sure you'll be able to buy second hand games, but if you want to take them online (or activate the single player), you'll have to pay extra. Publishers would really like nothing more than to see the current second hand market model for console games utterly destroyed. One of the main reasons steam is as popular as it is, is the fact that every game is tied to an account and you cannot resell it. Eh no, it's not popular because it's tied to an account and because you can't resell it. That's a consequence of the buisness model, not the reason why people like it. Unless you talk about popularity for publishers? I was talking about Steam's popularity with publishers. The fact that the games are tied to one account is rather annoying. Yet no one complains. Because Steam understands that by making resale impossible they are reducing the value of their games...so they've reduced their prices on A LOT of their games. Even their triple AAA titles are given a discount with pre-order or you get a discount for buying on release day. And then they're on sale within a couple of months. Yeah, Steam has DRM and security, but they compensate customers for it. Microsoft wants DRM and security without actually adding any other value to their product. I think what make Steam popular is it was one of the first one with the idea of letting people get away from physical copy and download the games and play from the get go. Also, Valve's reputation brought alot to its success too, as well as like you said, having huge sales on so many occassion per year. When people see value they will pay. I probably never picked up some of the games that I have now on steam if it was not for those sales they have. Steam also did not being a total ass and let you play offline as well. Things like Uplay or Orbit are what make me sad -_-.
Not to mention Steam allows you to buy games from other places as well (With exception of Valve games, for obvious reasons). It's not like owning a PC means you can ONLY buy from Steam. Xbox One does not have this luxury of having other choices in regards to DRM choices.
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Looking only at the 2 E3 conferences one after the other microsoft first then Sony's any gamer will say that Sony's conference was way better. Xbox one is introducing annoying restraint that can only annoy end users at some point or another. If someone is using a console it's partly to not be annoyed by policies that will make you lose time, money or annoy you when you just want to chillout and play some games.
The biggest thing that may reconcile me with console is the no region restriction on PS4. I like the occasionnal action driven game Devil May Cry, Castlevania style, and I own a PC for every RTS, FPS cravings I may have.
But my real first love for video games comes for RPG: Seiken Densetsu, Chrono trigger, Final fantasy series, Tales of, Xenogears, Disgaea, Valkyria Chronicles...
So now with the PS4 I may have access to any video games market inlcuding JRPG without having to wait 3years for an US/EU editor to take the most succesfull ones to adapt. I know groups of fans that provide English patch for basic Japanese games like light novels, if the PS4 allows this... I'm buying it day 1.
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kinect (your body) is as much an input device as any other controller. but like any input device, some are better suited to certain games than others. and in the case of using your body, its extremely limited in its capability and makes you look like a damned fool. kinect continues to be a failure, microsoft continues to ignore its consumer base when they tell them the fact, and still forces it onto people.
such seems to be way microsoft operates nowadays (metro, win8, etc).
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On June 12 2013 02:26 paralleluniverse wrote:
I agree.
Firstly, I think I'm fairly objective on this Microsoft vs Sony issue, as I don't own or plan to buy any of these consoles.
People should really get over the Xbox One online requirement (which isn't even always online). There are many benefits to requiring always online:
So right off the bat you argue that xbone isnt always online, then you proceed to list benefits of always online. So basically, none of the following are relevant to the once/day connection issue.
-Having one unified community (compare everyone playing SC2 using B.net with SC1 where some played via pirate servers, some played via LAN, some played via Hamachi, some played single player, some played on B,net, etc.).
You cant have private servers on a console, everything is automatically unified for online play.
-Achievements.
Achievements can be done offline too. You dont need always on for them.
-Being easily able to chat with other people, quicker updates.
Always on isnt required for this, just having a connection possible allows this.
-Access to game library anywhere with internet and automatically with synchronized saves.
This is true, but you have to remember that wherever you go, you have to download the game. This could take anywhere from 30 minutes to several hours depending on your internet speed and the size of the game. Sony looks to be working around this by allowing you to play games early on (like Blizzard does with their games)
-And in the future, some of the calculations needed for games or to render graphics can be shifted from the computer/console onto a supercomputer on the cloud.
VERY few game related calculations are possible with cloud computing. Also, relying on the cloud is not good because the cloud can be overloaded. When you have 100 different games being programmed to use "the power of the cloud" and 20 million people utilizing "the power of the cloud" you WILL overload very quickly. Blizzard had to use 20k servers for WoW, and no rendering was done by them and very very few calculations. It was mostly just location data and character data.
Think of it this way. MS claims to be using 300k servers for their cloud. This means 300k calculations can be done at any one time. What if you have 20 million people that need a calculation? If it takes a quarter of a second for a render calculation before it goes on to the next that is some 10 and 2/3 seconds delay before it reaches the 20 millionth person. Obviously I don't know the specifics of their setup, but this is a possibility and why it wont be relied upon for pretty much anything graphical.
-More data about play patterns helps developers design games (many changes in WoW are based on data, e.g. when to nerf raid bosses can sometimes depend on success rates).
This is true, but it shouldn't be necessary for a console game. Player raids are a different beast than anything I have seen on a console so far.
After what happened today, Microsoft is screwed because Sony has jumped on the outraged gamers bandwagon. Indeed, Sony's used game policy seems completely based on the Microsoft backlash. Before this press conference, they said it was up to developers (basically the same as Xbox One). Now they're suddenly fully embracing used games. But the problem is Sony is wrong and Microsoft is right. Like PC or Steam, restricting used games and requiring online is a good thing, not a bad thing. In fact, restricting resale will lower costs for developers or increase revenues, and this I think should lead to lower prices due to competition. I don't think the monopoly excuse works, because Microsoft doesn't set the price, developers do. And no developer has a monopoly. Developers will have to compete with each other.
I thought they said it was up to developers for requiring internet connection to play, not used games.
Sony made a big deal of embracing "disc based games". That term was used over and over in their conference. It was epitomized in their hilarious used game demonstration video. But that's the problem. Disc's are last decades technology. I don't think I've physically seen a disc in the last 3 years of my life--that's how obsolete discs are. Xbox One uses a centralized account where all games and saves are on the cloud, discs aren't required. Since Sony haven't announced that all games will be available digitally from release day, unlike Microsoft, Sony is stuck in the past with its use of discs. And it's all just to appeal to the misguided and wrongheaded outrage over Microsoft restricting used games.
If you havent seen a disc, you havent played a console. Discs are still nice to have. If your internet is down you can still play games, they are quicker to install, if you have slow internet digital is a nightmare.
Then they should announce always online will allow the use of cloud computing to produce better framerates and gameplay. Moreover, using the money they saved from these features, they should announce that games will sell for between $10 to $50 and prices will reduce as games get older, much cheaper than the usual and unchanging $60 which Sony will almost surely charge.
Earlier you said that MS doesnt set the prices, but now you are saying that they both set the prices "I don't think the monopoly excuse works, because Microsoft doesn't set the price, developers do." Which is it?
In short, Microsoft now has the ability to easily undercut Sony on game prices and the capacity to make better games and better graphics with the use of cloud computing. They should make this clear.
They can make the claim, but people WILL demand examples. They can probably provide some when there arent millions of people using the live service, but that has to hold up when millions are using it.
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On June 12 2013 03:14 maartendq wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2013 03:12 Stratos_speAr wrote:On June 12 2013 03:07 Jockmcplop wrote:On June 12 2013 03:04 Stratos_speAr wrote:On June 12 2013 02:04 xDaunt wrote:On June 12 2013 02:01 Stratos_speAr wrote:On June 12 2013 01:55 xDaunt wrote:Whatever. People need to relax. This isn't just some private conversation or an extremely small, niche market event. This is one of the biggest and most covered video game events of the year. So yea, when you have a dialog that furthers stereotypes and mimics scenarios of sexual abuse, people are going to be justified in being upset. I can't even imagine how stiff people must be to have perceived the conversation that way in real time. It's like they're trying to find politically incorrect things to complain about. My first thought when the dude said, "Just relax it'll be over soon" was, "Oh shit, people are gonna get pissed." If you can't see how this is offensive, you're simply ignorant about social dynamics. 'Social dynamics' Did you mean the social dynamics of rape comments or the social dynamics of mindlessly joining in when someone is being beaten down? The social dynamics of rape comments, how offensive they actually are outside of our little gaming world, and how incredibly sexist the gaming world actually is. Rape jokes are absolutely unacceptable anywhere else in society, and so gamers need to accept that when you are on a massively covered stage like E3, you don't just get to make rape jokes like you do on your couch with your buddies or behind the safety of your anonymous gamer tag online. I would advise you to never, ever watch any sketch by monty python and to never watch any episode of south park or family guy, because each of these shows make fun of any and all religions, handicaps and handicapped people, jews, the holocaust, hitler, etc. I also fail to see how anyone can be insulted by anything that does not personally affect them.
Some of us aren't incredibly selfish and self-centered, so we care about others around us.
On the topic of satire, that's the point of things like Monty Python, South Park, etc. It's satire. One of the biggest and most public stages in the entire world for video games is not. Hell, even if those shows just started throwing out racial or homophobic slurs with no context to make it satirical, they would get blasted by everyone, even moreso than they are now for being offensive.
I honestly feel like these people go out of their way to find potentially politically incorrect statements to whine about online. I just don't get it honestly. I saw some post on Tumblr of this girl freaking out saying her friend was having rape flashbacks and locked herself in her room after hearing that joke because she was raped 7 times in her life or something. Like fucking really? I'm kind of hoping it was a joke but a lot of people go that crazy about these kinds of things.
It was horribly executed, clearly scripted, and it's funny to think Microsoft had to have a business meeting discussing this script and someone brought that poorly constructed joke up. But that's all it was, was a joke. Meant to simulate some friendly banter between friends. Calling us "ignorant" about "social dynamics" because we don't instantly get thrown up in arms over someone making a bantering joke while playing a competitive multiplayer game is just silly though.
To try and stay ontopic though, I'm wondering what Microsofts approach to this will be. I'm kind of feeling the only way they can come out of this successful is if they completely drop the privacy shit and drop the price, because even the Xbox Live fee is more than the PS+ fee. It's just really stacking in Sony's favor.
I'm calling you ignorant for criticizing others that find this offensive. You didn't mind it. I really didn't care that much, as the whole "political correctness about rape/gender roles" thing isn't my fight. HOWEVER, I at least have enough respect and empathy to understand that this stuff is understandably offensive to people.
Sony made a big deal of embracing "disc based games". That term was used over and over in their conference. It was epitomized in their hilarious used game demonstration video. But that's the problem. Disc's are last decades technology. I don't think I've physically seen a disc in the last 3 years of my life--that's how obsolete discs are. Xbox One uses a centralized account where all games and saves are on the cloud, discs aren't required. Since Sony haven't announced that all games will be available digitally from release day, unlike Microsoft, Sony is stuck in the past with its use of discs. And it's all just to appeal to the misguided and wrongheaded outrage over Microsoft restricting used games.
I think this summarizes the "pro always connected/all digital" stance quite nicely. You are an incredibly privileged minority, and you don't seem to understand this yet. It will be awesome when everyone is able to catch up to you, but discs are NOT "last generation tech" and our world has not reached the point that you're at. Trying to push us there when the socioeconomic conditions aren't ready for it is just ridiculous and only hurts the consumer. The vast majority of people still have to deal with spotty internet or just plain old poor internet service/no internet, discs, and actually having to worry about keeping a tight budget and not spending $500 on a console and $60 on every game.
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