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Used games were never big on the PC compared to console. It was a non-issue for Steam.
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On June 12 2013 03:16 timurStas wrote:
its not rape till microsoft presses charges.
what happened to free speech
Free speech protects you from criminal charges, but it doesn't force people to not be offended by what you say.
I make rape jokes all the time in gaming, but am capable of understanding that rape is a serious issue and that in the larger, real world, most people won't find those jokes entertaining or in good taste.
I don't doubt that he was just joking and not actually making a conscious reference to raping the other player, because that would be dumb and even Microsoft wouldn't put somebody that dumb up in front of the cameras at E3. But as a voice of Microsoft at this event, he needs to be aware of the things he is saying and the consequences that may have, as this has already resulted in even more bad publicity.
If it was just a one-liner where he made a common gamer joke that can be seen as poor taste, that would be one thing, but he keeps going with the sexual metaphors while beating down a female gamer. It just looks bad, and is a rookie mistake that someone on camera at E3 really shouldn't be making.
If there is any sexism here, it is very subtle, which could be even worse, as that's how we as gamers have been brought up. That "total rape" is a flawless victory in a video game and girls suck at video games.
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On June 12 2013 03:47 Stratos_speAr wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2013 03:14 maartendq wrote:On June 12 2013 03:12 Stratos_speAr wrote:On June 12 2013 03:07 Jockmcplop wrote:On June 12 2013 03:04 Stratos_speAr wrote:On June 12 2013 02:04 xDaunt wrote:On June 12 2013 02:01 Stratos_speAr wrote:On June 12 2013 01:55 xDaunt wrote:Whatever. People need to relax. This isn't just some private conversation or an extremely small, niche market event. This is one of the biggest and most covered video game events of the year. So yea, when you have a dialog that furthers stereotypes and mimics scenarios of sexual abuse, people are going to be justified in being upset. I can't even imagine how stiff people must be to have perceived the conversation that way in real time. It's like they're trying to find politically incorrect things to complain about. My first thought when the dude said, "Just relax it'll be over soon" was, "Oh shit, people are gonna get pissed." If you can't see how this is offensive, you're simply ignorant about social dynamics. 'Social dynamics' Did you mean the social dynamics of rape comments or the social dynamics of mindlessly joining in when someone is being beaten down? The social dynamics of rape comments, how offensive they actually are outside of our little gaming world, and how incredibly sexist the gaming world actually is. Rape jokes are absolutely unacceptable anywhere else in society, and so gamers need to accept that when you are on a massively covered stage like E3, you don't just get to make rape jokes like you do on your couch with your buddies or behind the safety of your anonymous gamer tag online. I would advise you to never, ever watch any sketch by monty python and to never watch any episode of south park or family guy, because each of these shows make fun of any and all religions, handicaps and handicapped people, jews, the holocaust, hitler, etc. I also fail to see how anyone can be insulted by anything that does not personally affect them. Some of us aren't incredibly selfish and self-centered, so we care about others around us. On the topic of satire, that's the point of things like Monty Python, South Park, etc. It's satire. One of the biggest and most public stages in the entire world for video games is not. Hell, even if those shows just started throwing out racial or homophobic slurs with no context to make it satirical, they would get blasted by everyone, even moreso than they are now for being offensive.
You started out calling us self centered and selfish, claiming we don't care about anyone around us.
If you can't force the other side to agree with your position alienate them, criminalize them, and dehumanize them to create a moral highground.
Classic.
Come on man, we're better than this. It was a freaking joke. If they want to come into the gaming world they're going to have to grow some thicker skin because guess what, when people are being competitive they're going to trash talk. That's just the nature of competitive activities. Freaking out because someone said "It'll be over soon, don't worry" when they are absolutely destroying someone in a fighting game is one of the most inane, petty things I've ever seen whined about on an internet forum.
Everyone is going to be offended by something. Trying to never offend anyone ever is a pointless goal. So we might as well just sit back and try to freaking enjoy ourselves a bit instead of throwing a shitfit over every little thing that offends us.
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On June 12 2013 03:47 Stratos_speAr wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2013 03:14 maartendq wrote:On June 12 2013 03:12 Stratos_speAr wrote:On June 12 2013 03:07 Jockmcplop wrote:On June 12 2013 03:04 Stratos_speAr wrote:On June 12 2013 02:04 xDaunt wrote:On June 12 2013 02:01 Stratos_speAr wrote:On June 12 2013 01:55 xDaunt wrote:Whatever. People need to relax. This isn't just some private conversation or an extremely small, niche market event. This is one of the biggest and most covered video game events of the year. So yea, when you have a dialog that furthers stereotypes and mimics scenarios of sexual abuse, people are going to be justified in being upset. I can't even imagine how stiff people must be to have perceived the conversation that way in real time. It's like they're trying to find politically incorrect things to complain about. My first thought when the dude said, "Just relax it'll be over soon" was, "Oh shit, people are gonna get pissed." If you can't see how this is offensive, you're simply ignorant about social dynamics. 'Social dynamics' Did you mean the social dynamics of rape comments or the social dynamics of mindlessly joining in when someone is being beaten down? The social dynamics of rape comments, how offensive they actually are outside of our little gaming world, and how incredibly sexist the gaming world actually is. Rape jokes are absolutely unacceptable anywhere else in society, and so gamers need to accept that when you are on a massively covered stage like E3, you don't just get to make rape jokes like you do on your couch with your buddies or behind the safety of your anonymous gamer tag online. I would advise you to never, ever watch any sketch by monty python and to never watch any episode of south park or family guy, because each of these shows make fun of any and all religions, handicaps and handicapped people, jews, the holocaust, hitler, etc. I also fail to see how anyone can be insulted by anything that does not personally affect them. Some of us aren't incredibly selfish and self-centered, so we care about others around us. On the topic of satire, that's the point of things like Monty Python, South Park, etc. It's satire. One of the biggest and most public stages in the entire world for video games is not. Hell, even if those shows just started throwing out racial or homophobic slurs with no context to make it satirical, they would get blasted by everyone, even moreso than they are now for being offensive.
Nothing is offensive. You choose to make it offensive or not. What was said on that stage was not offensive in the slightest. It was true to the game. It will be over soon. You choose to interpret it as a rape joke. Why? I have no idea. They're playing a fucking video game, not doing a real life demonstration. So tired of people getting "offended" at every little fucking thing. Caring about others around you? You care so much that you make it impossible for people to speak their mind and say things because someone will get offended. That's a lot of care. Act like a grown ass adult, we're not seven years old. He didn't say "wow you just got raped" which wouldn't be offensive either, it was two people "talking shit" during a live demo. Something that happens every day in every single video game ever.
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On June 12 2013 03:35 Fruscainte wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2013 03:30 wei2coolman wrote:On June 12 2013 03:04 Stratos_speAr wrote:On June 12 2013 02:04 xDaunt wrote:On June 12 2013 02:01 Stratos_speAr wrote:On June 12 2013 01:55 xDaunt wrote:Whatever. People need to relax. This isn't just some private conversation or an extremely small, niche market event. This is one of the biggest and most covered video game events of the year. So yea, when you have a dialog that furthers stereotypes and mimics scenarios of sexual abuse, people are going to be justified in being upset. I can't even imagine how stiff people must be to have perceived the conversation that way in real time. It's like they're trying to find politically incorrect things to complain about. My first thought when the dude said, "Just relax it'll be over soon" was, "Oh shit, people are gonna get pissed." If you can't see how this is offensive, you're simply ignorant about social dynamics. Offensive yes? Should you be offended? no. It's a fucking joke. I honestly feel like these people go out of their way to find potentially politically incorrect statements to whine about online. I just don't get it honestly. I saw some post on Tumblr of this girl freaking out saying her friend was having rape flashbacks and locked herself in her room after hearing that joke because she was raped 7 times in her life or something. Like fucking really? I'm kind of hoping it was a joke but a lot of people go that crazy about these kinds of things. It was horribly executed, clearly scripted, and it's funny to think Microsoft had to have a business meeting discussing this script and someone brought that poorly constructed joke up. But that's all it was, was a joke. Meant to simulate some friendly banter between friends. Calling us "ignorant" about "social dynamics" because we don't instantly get thrown up in arms over someone making a bantering joke while playing a competitive multiplayer game is just silly though. To try and stay ontopic though, I'm wondering what Microsofts approach to this will be. I'm kind of feeling the only way they can come out of this successful is if they completely drop the privacy shit and drop the price, because even the Xbox Live fee is more than the PS+ fee. It's just really stacking in Sony's favor.
Whether or not you think it was a rape joke it was still a shitty way to showcase their game. Hey guys, let's sell our game at a gaming convention by having a completely one sided fight where one of the participants does nothing but complain about how little fun she's having!!!
I'd be inclined to cut them more slack on the rape joke if they weren't completely oblivious to how people react to presentations.
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It was a dumb thing for the guy to say being on stage in front of people. He shouldn't be put back on stage at least. That being said, I have heard worse while playing a game and if the woman wasn't offended then im not going to be offended for her. They may be best of friends and talk crap to each other all of the time. If she had a problem with it then it is what it is, if not then I do not care at all. Obviously the guy wasn't condoning rape and honestly, the joke wasn't even 100% about rape. I have heard that line in plenty of other contexts outside of rape, enough so that I wouldn't just assume thats what he meant.
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On June 12 2013 03:38 takingbackoj wrote:
Extremely good post Blisse and Stratos. I don't own MS or sony stock. I have owned every PS and Xbox since they came out and will buy both of them this time around. I have no horse in this race, but as I explained before, MS is trying to appeal to the broader audience. As Blisse pointed out, Sony did an excellent job at jumping aboard the internet rage train against MS and kudos to them for it but MS is going after people that didn't even care enough to watch E3. They are going after people with a little disposable income that are looking for something to enhance their entertainment centers and play a few good games.
Now with that being said, I don't think MS alienated gamers in the long run, they just didn't do them any favors either. Its not like Nintendo who after putting out the best system of its time with the 64, started a gradual downslide from the gamecube on in reference to games. MS will still have very good games that gamers will want to play.
Again, as Blisse pointed out MS is going to have to, and in a position to, really distance itself with exclusive content whether it be games, DLC, or non-gaming related features. Also, they need to do a better job explaining the positives of always online (yes there are some positives). If you think about it, always online gives some incredible options if they decide to use it properly game wise. Also, if the Live/PSN discrepancy still exists, that is still a huge positive to Xbox.
All in all, Xbox is far from dead. They took a large pr hit but they aren't dead. Their target audience probably didn't even watch E3. They know Xbox, they like the way Xbox feels and plays online, they like the extra features, and they are willing to spend the extra dough.
In my eyes, PS4 took a big lead, but I intended on buying them both as usual and nothing changed my mind about it. They will both have great games, they will both have their value but the thing about Xbox is, they have the cash and the infrastructure, with the always online deal and added features, to really amp up the experience in new ways for hardcore gamers and casual gamers alike. If MS can sit down and say "yeah we are more costly and yeah you have to always be online, but we are going to make it worth your while", if they can be innovative enough, the ceiling is higher imo for Xbox One than PS4. Many more possibilities for Xbox.
Yeah, Xbox One is not dead. It just put itself far behind from the PS4 just like PS3 did in 2006.
Problem here is PS3 was actually a stronger system in term of hardware back then, but they was one year late to the party and comes with a Cell structure that scare alot of devs early on. In the end, PS3 still have the same sales as Xbox360 worldwide(and will beat Xbox360 total sales in the future) despite the fact that they are one year late. XboxOne got the US but PS3 has some of it as well while Xbox360 has nothing on Asia.
XboxOne now is in a much worse position than PS3 was in 2006. It is a weaker system, higher price, require online connection and non install base of Xbox 360 in Asia.
I would take a lot of effort for the Xbox360 to come back. Only hardcore fanboy will buy the Xbox at this point while event at its strongest moment Xbox360 just can't sweep PS3 out of US(Sony sold nearly 30 millions PS3 in NA)
Let's say that its true that their target audiences don't even watch E3. But if history teach us anything, it has teach us people buying console basing on its release date and price. PS2 was the king but with PS3 one year late in NA and come with a hefty price, people turn to Xbox360. Now that the XboxOne is $100 more expensive and comes out around the same time as PS4, people will go for the PS4.
Also, this is 2013, with all that social media available, I really doubt that people that looking to buy a new console will hear nothing about that happened at E3.
XboxOne is not dead but they would need a miracle to coming back if things stay as it is 'till release. MS needs to do something big and fast before release to actually has a chance to fight with Sony.
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On June 12 2013 03:54 Klondikebar wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2013 03:35 Fruscainte wrote:On June 12 2013 03:30 wei2coolman wrote:On June 12 2013 03:04 Stratos_speAr wrote:On June 12 2013 02:04 xDaunt wrote:On June 12 2013 02:01 Stratos_speAr wrote:On June 12 2013 01:55 xDaunt wrote:Whatever. People need to relax. This isn't just some private conversation or an extremely small, niche market event. This is one of the biggest and most covered video game events of the year. So yea, when you have a dialog that furthers stereotypes and mimics scenarios of sexual abuse, people are going to be justified in being upset. I can't even imagine how stiff people must be to have perceived the conversation that way in real time. It's like they're trying to find politically incorrect things to complain about. My first thought when the dude said, "Just relax it'll be over soon" was, "Oh shit, people are gonna get pissed." If you can't see how this is offensive, you're simply ignorant about social dynamics. Offensive yes? Should you be offended? no. It's a fucking joke. I honestly feel like these people go out of their way to find potentially politically incorrect statements to whine about online. I just don't get it honestly. I saw some post on Tumblr of this girl freaking out saying her friend was having rape flashbacks and locked herself in her room after hearing that joke because she was raped 7 times in her life or something. Like fucking really? I'm kind of hoping it was a joke but a lot of people go that crazy about these kinds of things. It was horribly executed, clearly scripted, and it's funny to think Microsoft had to have a business meeting discussing this script and someone brought that poorly constructed joke up. But that's all it was, was a joke. Meant to simulate some friendly banter between friends. Calling us "ignorant" about "social dynamics" because we don't instantly get thrown up in arms over someone making a bantering joke while playing a competitive multiplayer game is just silly though. To try and stay ontopic though, I'm wondering what Microsofts approach to this will be. I'm kind of feeling the only way they can come out of this successful is if they completely drop the privacy shit and drop the price, because even the Xbox Live fee is more than the PS+ fee. It's just really stacking in Sony's favor. Whether or not you think it was a rape joke it was still a shitty way to showcase their game. Hey guys, let's sell our game at a gaming convention by having a completely one sided fight where one of the participants does nothing but complain about how little fun she's having!!! I'd be inclined to cut them more slack on the rape joke if they weren't completely oblivious to how people react to presentations.
You seem to be posting under the implication I'm defending the game or the presentation of it.
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I still don't understand what market MS is aiming at with Xbox One. It should be the casual market but it's too expensive, both WII U and PS4 beats it there now. They can't really market it to the hardcore gamer either since PS4 has better hardware and less bullshit related to consumer rights. Maybe it's more expensive that gives it the edge? I have no freaking clue anymore.
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On June 12 2013 03:52 Infernal_dream wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2013 03:47 Stratos_speAr wrote:On June 12 2013 03:14 maartendq wrote:On June 12 2013 03:12 Stratos_speAr wrote:On June 12 2013 03:07 Jockmcplop wrote:On June 12 2013 03:04 Stratos_speAr wrote:On June 12 2013 02:04 xDaunt wrote:On June 12 2013 02:01 Stratos_speAr wrote:On June 12 2013 01:55 xDaunt wrote:Whatever. People need to relax. This isn't just some private conversation or an extremely small, niche market event. This is one of the biggest and most covered video game events of the year. So yea, when you have a dialog that furthers stereotypes and mimics scenarios of sexual abuse, people are going to be justified in being upset. I can't even imagine how stiff people must be to have perceived the conversation that way in real time. It's like they're trying to find politically incorrect things to complain about. My first thought when the dude said, "Just relax it'll be over soon" was, "Oh shit, people are gonna get pissed." If you can't see how this is offensive, you're simply ignorant about social dynamics. 'Social dynamics' Did you mean the social dynamics of rape comments or the social dynamics of mindlessly joining in when someone is being beaten down? The social dynamics of rape comments, how offensive they actually are outside of our little gaming world, and how incredibly sexist the gaming world actually is. Rape jokes are absolutely unacceptable anywhere else in society, and so gamers need to accept that when you are on a massively covered stage like E3, you don't just get to make rape jokes like you do on your couch with your buddies or behind the safety of your anonymous gamer tag online. I would advise you to never, ever watch any sketch by monty python and to never watch any episode of south park or family guy, because each of these shows make fun of any and all religions, handicaps and handicapped people, jews, the holocaust, hitler, etc. I also fail to see how anyone can be insulted by anything that does not personally affect them. Some of us aren't incredibly selfish and self-centered, so we care about others around us. On the topic of satire, that's the point of things like Monty Python, South Park, etc. It's satire. One of the biggest and most public stages in the entire world for video games is not. Hell, even if those shows just started throwing out racial or homophobic slurs with no context to make it satirical, they would get blasted by everyone, even moreso than they are now for being offensive. Nothing is offensive. You choose to make it offensive or not. What was said on that stage was not offensive in the slightest. It was true to the game. It will be over soon. You choose to interpret it as a rape joke. Why? I have no idea. They're playing a fucking video game, not doing a real life demonstration. So tired of people getting "offended" at every little fucking thing. Caring about others around you? You care so much that you make it impossible for people to speak their mind and say things because someone will get offended. That's a lot of care. Act like a grown ass adult, we're not seven years old. He didn't say "wow you just got raped" which wouldn't be offensive either, it was two people "talking shit" during a live demo. Something that happens every day in every single video game ever.
And down into the pit of relativism we go........your self-proclaimed maxim that "Nothing is offensive" is, unfortunately for you, not a view shared by many others. In the court of public opinion, no one cares what sort of strange moral gerrymandering you've done, and those who play with communicative fire in the public space risk getting burned. It's that simple. Best leave the possible rape joke for another time. But by all means, get all offended that other people get offended. It's a fun game to play, isn't it? 
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On June 12 2013 03:50 Fruscainte wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2013 03:47 Stratos_speAr wrote:On June 12 2013 03:14 maartendq wrote:On June 12 2013 03:12 Stratos_speAr wrote:On June 12 2013 03:07 Jockmcplop wrote:On June 12 2013 03:04 Stratos_speAr wrote:On June 12 2013 02:04 xDaunt wrote:On June 12 2013 02:01 Stratos_speAr wrote:On June 12 2013 01:55 xDaunt wrote:Whatever. People need to relax. This isn't just some private conversation or an extremely small, niche market event. This is one of the biggest and most covered video game events of the year. So yea, when you have a dialog that furthers stereotypes and mimics scenarios of sexual abuse, people are going to be justified in being upset. I can't even imagine how stiff people must be to have perceived the conversation that way in real time. It's like they're trying to find politically incorrect things to complain about. My first thought when the dude said, "Just relax it'll be over soon" was, "Oh shit, people are gonna get pissed." If you can't see how this is offensive, you're simply ignorant about social dynamics. 'Social dynamics' Did you mean the social dynamics of rape comments or the social dynamics of mindlessly joining in when someone is being beaten down? The social dynamics of rape comments, how offensive they actually are outside of our little gaming world, and how incredibly sexist the gaming world actually is. Rape jokes are absolutely unacceptable anywhere else in society, and so gamers need to accept that when you are on a massively covered stage like E3, you don't just get to make rape jokes like you do on your couch with your buddies or behind the safety of your anonymous gamer tag online. I would advise you to never, ever watch any sketch by monty python and to never watch any episode of south park or family guy, because each of these shows make fun of any and all religions, handicaps and handicapped people, jews, the holocaust, hitler, etc. I also fail to see how anyone can be insulted by anything that does not personally affect them. Some of us aren't incredibly selfish and self-centered, so we care about others around us. On the topic of satire, that's the point of things like Monty Python, South Park, etc. It's satire. One of the biggest and most public stages in the entire world for video games is not. Hell, even if those shows just started throwing out racial or homophobic slurs with no context to make it satirical, they would get blasted by everyone, even moreso than they are now for being offensive. You started out calling us self centered and selfish, claiming we don't care about anyone around us. If you can't force the other side to agree with your position alienate them, criminalize them, and dehumanize them to create a moral highground. Classic. Come on man, we're better than this. It was a freaking joke. If they want to come into the gaming world they're going to have to grow some thicker skin because guess what, when people are being competitive they're going to trash talk. That's just the nature of competitive activities. Freaking out because someone said "It'll be over soon, don't worry" when they are absolutely destroying someone in a fighting game is one of the most inane, petty things I've ever seen whined about on an internet forum. Everyone is going to be offended by something. Trying to never offend anyone ever is a pointless goal. So we might as well just sit back and try to freaking enjoy ourselves a bit instead of throwing a shitfit over every little thing that offends us.
I'm all for internet free speech. If you're going to enter the world of the internet and dealing with the private individual, you're going to have to deal with nastiness, just like in everyday life. However, gamers have to come to a realization as well. If they want gaming to become socially acceptable in a serious manner, they need to stop hiding behind this excuse, stop acting like 13-year-olds, and actually push those that represent the gaming community to be respectable. This doesn't mean pushing everyone to be politically correct, but merely holding those accountable that represent us, and that includes major developers like Sony and Microsoft.
Also, I was responding to the claim that "you shouldn't be offended by anything that doesn't affect you."
I'm not black. I'm not homosexual. However, if I see someone around me being blatantly racist or homophobic to someone who is either of these things, I'll give them a smackdown (either literally or verbally), because I believe in tolerance, empathy, and human dignity (and no, tolerance does not extend to tolerating intolerance. That is a bullshit argument put forth by morons who don't have any other way to hide their racism/sexism/homophobia/etc). Not supporting those that are offended, hurt, or oppressed is just laziness, complacency, and it contributes to a shitty world to live in.
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On June 12 2013 04:00 Stratos_speAr wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2013 03:50 Fruscainte wrote:On June 12 2013 03:47 Stratos_speAr wrote:On June 12 2013 03:14 maartendq wrote:On June 12 2013 03:12 Stratos_speAr wrote:On June 12 2013 03:07 Jockmcplop wrote:On June 12 2013 03:04 Stratos_speAr wrote:On June 12 2013 02:04 xDaunt wrote:On June 12 2013 02:01 Stratos_speAr wrote:On June 12 2013 01:55 xDaunt wrote:
[quote]
Whatever. People need to relax. This isn't just some private conversation or an extremely small, niche market event. This is one of the biggest and most covered video game events of the year. So yea, when you have a dialog that furthers stereotypes and mimics scenarios of sexual abuse, people are going to be justified in being upset. I can't even imagine how stiff people must be to have perceived the conversation that way in real time. It's like they're trying to find politically incorrect things to complain about. My first thought when the dude said, "Just relax it'll be over soon" was, "Oh shit, people are gonna get pissed." If you can't see how this is offensive, you're simply ignorant about social dynamics. 'Social dynamics' Did you mean the social dynamics of rape comments or the social dynamics of mindlessly joining in when someone is being beaten down? The social dynamics of rape comments, how offensive they actually are outside of our little gaming world, and how incredibly sexist the gaming world actually is. Rape jokes are absolutely unacceptable anywhere else in society, and so gamers need to accept that when you are on a massively covered stage like E3, you don't just get to make rape jokes like you do on your couch with your buddies or behind the safety of your anonymous gamer tag online. I would advise you to never, ever watch any sketch by monty python and to never watch any episode of south park or family guy, because each of these shows make fun of any and all religions, handicaps and handicapped people, jews, the holocaust, hitler, etc. I also fail to see how anyone can be insulted by anything that does not personally affect them. Some of us aren't incredibly selfish and self-centered, so we care about others around us. On the topic of satire, that's the point of things like Monty Python, South Park, etc. It's satire. One of the biggest and most public stages in the entire world for video games is not. Hell, even if those shows just started throwing out racial or homophobic slurs with no context to make it satirical, they would get blasted by everyone, even moreso than they are now for being offensive. You started out calling us self centered and selfish, claiming we don't care about anyone around us. If you can't force the other side to agree with your position alienate them, criminalize them, and dehumanize them to create a moral highground. Classic. Come on man, we're better than this. It was a freaking joke. If they want to come into the gaming world they're going to have to grow some thicker skin because guess what, when people are being competitive they're going to trash talk. That's just the nature of competitive activities. Freaking out because someone said "It'll be over soon, don't worry" when they are absolutely destroying someone in a fighting game is one of the most inane, petty things I've ever seen whined about on an internet forum. Everyone is going to be offended by something. Trying to never offend anyone ever is a pointless goal. So we might as well just sit back and try to freaking enjoy ourselves a bit instead of throwing a shitfit over every little thing that offends us. I'm all for internet free speech. If you're going to enter the world of the internet and dealing with the private individual, you're going to have to deal with nastiness, just like in everyday life. However, gamers have to come to a realization as well. If they want gaming to become socially acceptable in a serious manner, they need to stop hiding behind this excuse, stop acting like 13-year-olds, and actually push those that represent the gaming community to be respectable. This doesn't mean pushing everyone to be politically correct, but merely holding those accountable that represent us, and that includes major developers like Sony and Microsoft. Also, I was responding to the claim that "you shouldn't be offended by anything that doesn't affect you." I'm not black. I'm not homosexual. However, if I see someone around me being blatantly racist or homophobic to someone who is either of these things, I'll give them a smackdown (either literally or verbally), because I believe in tolerance, empathy, and human dignity (and no, tolerance does not extend to tolerating intolerance. That is a bullshit argument put forth by morons who don't have any other way to hide their racism/sexism/homophobia/etc).
Holy fuck, stop. There is absolutely nothing to what the guy was saying on the stage other than that the beatdown would "be over soon"
This thread is giving me cancer.
OMGOSH DID I SAY CANCER?
IM SO INSENSITIVE TO PEOPLE WITH CANCER.
User was warned for this post
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On June 12 2013 03:58 Fruscainte wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2013 03:54 Klondikebar wrote:On June 12 2013 03:35 Fruscainte wrote:On June 12 2013 03:30 wei2coolman wrote:On June 12 2013 03:04 Stratos_speAr wrote:On June 12 2013 02:04 xDaunt wrote:On June 12 2013 02:01 Stratos_speAr wrote:On June 12 2013 01:55 xDaunt wrote:Whatever. People need to relax. This isn't just some private conversation or an extremely small, niche market event. This is one of the biggest and most covered video game events of the year. So yea, when you have a dialog that furthers stereotypes and mimics scenarios of sexual abuse, people are going to be justified in being upset. I can't even imagine how stiff people must be to have perceived the conversation that way in real time. It's like they're trying to find politically incorrect things to complain about. My first thought when the dude said, "Just relax it'll be over soon" was, "Oh shit, people are gonna get pissed." If you can't see how this is offensive, you're simply ignorant about social dynamics. Offensive yes? Should you be offended? no. It's a fucking joke. I honestly feel like these people go out of their way to find potentially politically incorrect statements to whine about online. I just don't get it honestly. I saw some post on Tumblr of this girl freaking out saying her friend was having rape flashbacks and locked herself in her room after hearing that joke because she was raped 7 times in her life or something. Like fucking really? I'm kind of hoping it was a joke but a lot of people go that crazy about these kinds of things. It was horribly executed, clearly scripted, and it's funny to think Microsoft had to have a business meeting discussing this script and someone brought that poorly constructed joke up. But that's all it was, was a joke. Meant to simulate some friendly banter between friends. Calling us "ignorant" about "social dynamics" because we don't instantly get thrown up in arms over someone making a bantering joke while playing a competitive multiplayer game is just silly though. To try and stay ontopic though, I'm wondering what Microsofts approach to this will be. I'm kind of feeling the only way they can come out of this successful is if they completely drop the privacy shit and drop the price, because even the Xbox Live fee is more than the PS+ fee. It's just really stacking in Sony's favor. Whether or not you think it was a rape joke it was still a shitty way to showcase their game. Hey guys, let's sell our game at a gaming convention by having a completely one sided fight where one of the participants does nothing but complain about how little fun she's having!!! I'd be inclined to cut them more slack on the rape joke if they weren't completely oblivious to how people react to presentations. You seem to be posting under the implication I'm defending the game or the presentation of it.
Nah. I give anyone with a pulse more credit than that  Just pointing out that that the presentation probably put people on the backfoot to begin with so it made any negative or offensive interpretation that much easier.
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On June 12 2013 04:05 squanzo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2013 04:00 Stratos_speAr wrote:On June 12 2013 03:50 Fruscainte wrote:On June 12 2013 03:47 Stratos_speAr wrote:On June 12 2013 03:14 maartendq wrote:On June 12 2013 03:12 Stratos_speAr wrote:On June 12 2013 03:07 Jockmcplop wrote:On June 12 2013 03:04 Stratos_speAr wrote:On June 12 2013 02:04 xDaunt wrote:On June 12 2013 02:01 Stratos_speAr wrote:
[quote]
This isn't just some private conversation or an extremely small, niche market event. This is one of the biggest and most covered video game events of the year. So yea, when you have a dialog that furthers stereotypes and mimics scenarios of sexual abuse, people are going to be justified in being upset. I can't even imagine how stiff people must be to have perceived the conversation that way in real time. It's like they're trying to find politically incorrect things to complain about. My first thought when the dude said, "Just relax it'll be over soon" was, "Oh shit, people are gonna get pissed." If you can't see how this is offensive, you're simply ignorant about social dynamics. 'Social dynamics' Did you mean the social dynamics of rape comments or the social dynamics of mindlessly joining in when someone is being beaten down? The social dynamics of rape comments, how offensive they actually are outside of our little gaming world, and how incredibly sexist the gaming world actually is. Rape jokes are absolutely unacceptable anywhere else in society, and so gamers need to accept that when you are on a massively covered stage like E3, you don't just get to make rape jokes like you do on your couch with your buddies or behind the safety of your anonymous gamer tag online. I would advise you to never, ever watch any sketch by monty python and to never watch any episode of south park or family guy, because each of these shows make fun of any and all religions, handicaps and handicapped people, jews, the holocaust, hitler, etc. I also fail to see how anyone can be insulted by anything that does not personally affect them. Some of us aren't incredibly selfish and self-centered, so we care about others around us. On the topic of satire, that's the point of things like Monty Python, South Park, etc. It's satire. One of the biggest and most public stages in the entire world for video games is not. Hell, even if those shows just started throwing out racial or homophobic slurs with no context to make it satirical, they would get blasted by everyone, even moreso than they are now for being offensive. You started out calling us self centered and selfish, claiming we don't care about anyone around us. If you can't force the other side to agree with your position alienate them, criminalize them, and dehumanize them to create a moral highground. Classic. Come on man, we're better than this. It was a freaking joke. If they want to come into the gaming world they're going to have to grow some thicker skin because guess what, when people are being competitive they're going to trash talk. That's just the nature of competitive activities. Freaking out because someone said "It'll be over soon, don't worry" when they are absolutely destroying someone in a fighting game is one of the most inane, petty things I've ever seen whined about on an internet forum. Everyone is going to be offended by something. Trying to never offend anyone ever is a pointless goal. So we might as well just sit back and try to freaking enjoy ourselves a bit instead of throwing a shitfit over every little thing that offends us. I'm all for internet free speech. If you're going to enter the world of the internet and dealing with the private individual, you're going to have to deal with nastiness, just like in everyday life. However, gamers have to come to a realization as well. If they want gaming to become socially acceptable in a serious manner, they need to stop hiding behind this excuse, stop acting like 13-year-olds, and actually push those that represent the gaming community to be respectable. This doesn't mean pushing everyone to be politically correct, but merely holding those accountable that represent us, and that includes major developers like Sony and Microsoft. Also, I was responding to the claim that "you shouldn't be offended by anything that doesn't affect you." I'm not black. I'm not homosexual. However, if I see someone around me being blatantly racist or homophobic to someone who is either of these things, I'll give them a smackdown (either literally or verbally), because I believe in tolerance, empathy, and human dignity (and no, tolerance does not extend to tolerating intolerance. That is a bullshit argument put forth by morons who don't have any other way to hide their racism/sexism/homophobia/etc). Holy fuck, stop. There is absolutely nothing to what the guy was saying on the stage other than that the beatdown would "be over soon" This thread is giving me cancer. OMGOSH DID I SAY CANCER? IM SO INSENSITIVE TO PEOPLE WITH CANCER.
Pretty much this. The only reason people think it was a rape comment is because people typically associate being beat hard in a video game to being "raped". The "it'll all be over soon" can be used for other things... such as when you are sick and want to hold back from throwing up. People sometimes say that to you so that you let it out. It isnt a direct rape comment, it is only viewed by some that way because she was getting destroyed (or in old gamer culture: raped).
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On June 12 2013 04:05 squanzo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2013 04:00 Stratos_speAr wrote:On June 12 2013 03:50 Fruscainte wrote:On June 12 2013 03:47 Stratos_speAr wrote:On June 12 2013 03:14 maartendq wrote:On June 12 2013 03:12 Stratos_speAr wrote:On June 12 2013 03:07 Jockmcplop wrote:On June 12 2013 03:04 Stratos_speAr wrote:On June 12 2013 02:04 xDaunt wrote:On June 12 2013 02:01 Stratos_speAr wrote:
[quote]
This isn't just some private conversation or an extremely small, niche market event. This is one of the biggest and most covered video game events of the year. So yea, when you have a dialog that furthers stereotypes and mimics scenarios of sexual abuse, people are going to be justified in being upset. I can't even imagine how stiff people must be to have perceived the conversation that way in real time. It's like they're trying to find politically incorrect things to complain about. My first thought when the dude said, "Just relax it'll be over soon" was, "Oh shit, people are gonna get pissed." If you can't see how this is offensive, you're simply ignorant about social dynamics. 'Social dynamics' Did you mean the social dynamics of rape comments or the social dynamics of mindlessly joining in when someone is being beaten down? The social dynamics of rape comments, how offensive they actually are outside of our little gaming world, and how incredibly sexist the gaming world actually is. Rape jokes are absolutely unacceptable anywhere else in society, and so gamers need to accept that when you are on a massively covered stage like E3, you don't just get to make rape jokes like you do on your couch with your buddies or behind the safety of your anonymous gamer tag online. I would advise you to never, ever watch any sketch by monty python and to never watch any episode of south park or family guy, because each of these shows make fun of any and all religions, handicaps and handicapped people, jews, the holocaust, hitler, etc. I also fail to see how anyone can be insulted by anything that does not personally affect them. Some of us aren't incredibly selfish and self-centered, so we care about others around us. On the topic of satire, that's the point of things like Monty Python, South Park, etc. It's satire. One of the biggest and most public stages in the entire world for video games is not. Hell, even if those shows just started throwing out racial or homophobic slurs with no context to make it satirical, they would get blasted by everyone, even moreso than they are now for being offensive. You started out calling us self centered and selfish, claiming we don't care about anyone around us. If you can't force the other side to agree with your position alienate them, criminalize them, and dehumanize them to create a moral highground. Classic. Come on man, we're better than this. It was a freaking joke. If they want to come into the gaming world they're going to have to grow some thicker skin because guess what, when people are being competitive they're going to trash talk. That's just the nature of competitive activities. Freaking out because someone said "It'll be over soon, don't worry" when they are absolutely destroying someone in a fighting game is one of the most inane, petty things I've ever seen whined about on an internet forum. Everyone is going to be offended by something. Trying to never offend anyone ever is a pointless goal. So we might as well just sit back and try to freaking enjoy ourselves a bit instead of throwing a shitfit over every little thing that offends us. I'm all for internet free speech. If you're going to enter the world of the internet and dealing with the private individual, you're going to have to deal with nastiness, just like in everyday life. However, gamers have to come to a realization as well. If they want gaming to become socially acceptable in a serious manner, they need to stop hiding behind this excuse, stop acting like 13-year-olds, and actually push those that represent the gaming community to be respectable. This doesn't mean pushing everyone to be politically correct, but merely holding those accountable that represent us, and that includes major developers like Sony and Microsoft. Also, I was responding to the claim that "you shouldn't be offended by anything that doesn't affect you." I'm not black. I'm not homosexual. However, if I see someone around me being blatantly racist or homophobic to someone who is either of these things, I'll give them a smackdown (either literally or verbally), because I believe in tolerance, empathy, and human dignity (and no, tolerance does not extend to tolerating intolerance. That is a bullshit argument put forth by morons who don't have any other way to hide their racism/sexism/homophobia/etc). Holy fuck, stop. There is absolutely nothing to what the guy was saying on the stage other than that the beatdown would "be over soon" This thread is giving me cancer. OMGOSH DID I SAY CANCER? IM SO INSENSITIVE TO PEOPLE WITH CANCER.
It's fun and all to be able to act like an adolescent and pretend that "nothing is offensive unless you make it offensive", "people just overreact", and "people need to get thicker skin", but in the real world, with adults, where certain phrases in a number of contexts have certain offensive connotations, and when they immediately draw a shocked response from the audience, it's pretty obvious that you said the wrong thing.
Pretty much this. The only reason people think it was a rape comment is because people typically associate being beat hard in a video game to being "raped". The "it'll all be over soon" can be used for other things... such as when you are sick and want to hold back from throwing up. People sometimes say that to you so that you let it out. It isnt a direct rape comment, it is only viewed by some that way because she was getting destroyed (or in old gamer culture: raped).
What you describe is called context, and you need to be aware of it to operate in society.
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On June 12 2013 04:08 TheRabidDeer wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2013 04:05 squanzo wrote:On June 12 2013 04:00 Stratos_speAr wrote:On June 12 2013 03:50 Fruscainte wrote:On June 12 2013 03:47 Stratos_speAr wrote:On June 12 2013 03:14 maartendq wrote:On June 12 2013 03:12 Stratos_speAr wrote:On June 12 2013 03:07 Jockmcplop wrote:On June 12 2013 03:04 Stratos_speAr wrote:On June 12 2013 02:04 xDaunt wrote:
[quote]
I can't even imagine how stiff people must be to have perceived the conversation that way in real time. It's like they're trying to find politically incorrect things to complain about. My first thought when the dude said, "Just relax it'll be over soon" was, "Oh shit, people are gonna get pissed." If you can't see how this is offensive, you're simply ignorant about social dynamics. 'Social dynamics' Did you mean the social dynamics of rape comments or the social dynamics of mindlessly joining in when someone is being beaten down? The social dynamics of rape comments, how offensive they actually are outside of our little gaming world, and how incredibly sexist the gaming world actually is. Rape jokes are absolutely unacceptable anywhere else in society, and so gamers need to accept that when you are on a massively covered stage like E3, you don't just get to make rape jokes like you do on your couch with your buddies or behind the safety of your anonymous gamer tag online. I would advise you to never, ever watch any sketch by monty python and to never watch any episode of south park or family guy, because each of these shows make fun of any and all religions, handicaps and handicapped people, jews, the holocaust, hitler, etc. I also fail to see how anyone can be insulted by anything that does not personally affect them. Some of us aren't incredibly selfish and self-centered, so we care about others around us. On the topic of satire, that's the point of things like Monty Python, South Park, etc. It's satire. One of the biggest and most public stages in the entire world for video games is not. Hell, even if those shows just started throwing out racial or homophobic slurs with no context to make it satirical, they would get blasted by everyone, even moreso than they are now for being offensive. You started out calling us self centered and selfish, claiming we don't care about anyone around us. If you can't force the other side to agree with your position alienate them, criminalize them, and dehumanize them to create a moral highground. Classic. Come on man, we're better than this. It was a freaking joke. If they want to come into the gaming world they're going to have to grow some thicker skin because guess what, when people are being competitive they're going to trash talk. That's just the nature of competitive activities. Freaking out because someone said "It'll be over soon, don't worry" when they are absolutely destroying someone in a fighting game is one of the most inane, petty things I've ever seen whined about on an internet forum. Everyone is going to be offended by something. Trying to never offend anyone ever is a pointless goal. So we might as well just sit back and try to freaking enjoy ourselves a bit instead of throwing a shitfit over every little thing that offends us. I'm all for internet free speech. If you're going to enter the world of the internet and dealing with the private individual, you're going to have to deal with nastiness, just like in everyday life. However, gamers have to come to a realization as well. If they want gaming to become socially acceptable in a serious manner, they need to stop hiding behind this excuse, stop acting like 13-year-olds, and actually push those that represent the gaming community to be respectable. This doesn't mean pushing everyone to be politically correct, but merely holding those accountable that represent us, and that includes major developers like Sony and Microsoft. Also, I was responding to the claim that "you shouldn't be offended by anything that doesn't affect you." I'm not black. I'm not homosexual. However, if I see someone around me being blatantly racist or homophobic to someone who is either of these things, I'll give them a smackdown (either literally or verbally), because I believe in tolerance, empathy, and human dignity (and no, tolerance does not extend to tolerating intolerance. That is a bullshit argument put forth by morons who don't have any other way to hide their racism/sexism/homophobia/etc). Holy fuck, stop. There is absolutely nothing to what the guy was saying on the stage other than that the beatdown would "be over soon" This thread is giving me cancer. OMGOSH DID I SAY CANCER? IM SO INSENSITIVE TO PEOPLE WITH CANCER. Pretty much this. The only reason people think it was a rape comment is because people typically associate being beat hard in a video game to being "raped". The "it'll all be over soon" can be used for other things... such as when you are sick and want to hold back from throwing up. People sometimes say that to you so that you let it out. It isnt a direct rape comment, it is only viewed by some that way because she was getting destroyed (or in old gamer culture: raped).
Good God, does that comment make me feel old.
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On June 12 2013 03:57 Caphe wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2013 03:38 takingbackoj wrote:
Extremely good post Blisse and Stratos. I don't own MS or sony stock. I have owned every PS and Xbox since they came out and will buy both of them this time around. I have no horse in this race, but as I explained before, MS is trying to appeal to the broader audience. As Blisse pointed out, Sony did an excellent job at jumping aboard the internet rage train against MS and kudos to them for it but MS is going after people that didn't even care enough to watch E3. They are going after people with a little disposable income that are looking for something to enhance their entertainment centers and play a few good games.
Now with that being said, I don't think MS alienated gamers in the long run, they just didn't do them any favors either. Its not like Nintendo who after putting out the best system of its time with the 64, started a gradual downslide from the gamecube on in reference to games. MS will still have very good games that gamers will want to play.
Again, as Blisse pointed out MS is going to have to, and in a position to, really distance itself with exclusive content whether it be games, DLC, or non-gaming related features. Also, they need to do a better job explaining the positives of always online (yes there are some positives). If you think about it, always online gives some incredible options if they decide to use it properly game wise. Also, if the Live/PSN discrepancy still exists, that is still a huge positive to Xbox.
All in all, Xbox is far from dead. They took a large pr hit but they aren't dead. Their target audience probably didn't even watch E3. They know Xbox, they like the way Xbox feels and plays online, they like the extra features, and they are willing to spend the extra dough.
In my eyes, PS4 took a big lead, but I intended on buying them both as usual and nothing changed my mind about it. They will both have great games, they will both have their value but the thing about Xbox is, they have the cash and the infrastructure, with the always online deal and added features, to really amp up the experience in new ways for hardcore gamers and casual gamers alike. If MS can sit down and say "yeah we are more costly and yeah you have to always be online, but we are going to make it worth your while", if they can be innovative enough, the ceiling is higher imo for Xbox One than PS4. Many more possibilities for Xbox. Yeah, Xbox One is not dead. It just put itself far behind from the PS4 just like PS3 did in 2006. Problem here is PS3 was actually a stronger system in term of hardware back then, but they was one year late to the party and comes with a Cell structure that scare alot of devs early on. In the end, PS3 still have the same sales as Xbox360 worldwide(and will beat Xbox360 total sales in the future) despite the fact that they are one year late. XboxOne got the US but PS3 has some of it as well while Xbox360 has nothing on Asia. XboxOne now is in a much worse position than PS3 was in 2006. It is a weaker system, higher price, require online connection and non install base of Xbox 360 in Asia. I would take a lot of effort for the Xbox360 to come back. Only hardcore fanboy will buy the Xbox at this point while event at its strongest moment Xbox360 just can't sweep PS3 out of US(Sony sold nearly 30 millions PS3 in NA) Let's say that its true that their target audiences don't even watch E3. But if history teach us anything, it has teach us people buying console basing on its release date and price. PS2 was the king but with PS3 one year late in NA and come with a hefty price, people turn to Xbox360. Now that the XboxOne is $100 more expensive and comes out around the same time as PS4, people will go for the PS4. Also, this is 2013, with all that social media available, I really doubt that people that looking to buy a new console will hear nothing about that happened at E3. XboxOne is not dead but they would need a miracle to coming back if things stay as it is 'till release. MS needs to do something big and fast before release to actually has a chance to fight with Sony.
I agree with your overall premise. Xbox is in a rough spot, but I wouldn't take it to the extreme. It depends on what you mean by "actually has a chance to fight with Sony." If you mean outsell then sure, if you mean, like others seem to suggest, it will die an embarrassing death and flop, then no. It will do well enough but probably struggle early on due to poor PR and the restrictions going into it. But like I said, they have a higher ceiling than PS4 with everything taken into account. If they can take those negatives (always online, price difference, non-gaming features) and use them to actually improve the gaming experience then they will have a solid chance, down the road, to be extremely competitive with the PS4.
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On June 12 2013 03:58 Integra wrote:
I still don't understand what market MS is aiming at with Xbox One. It should be the casual market but it's too expensive, both WII U and PS4 beats it there now. They can't really market it to the hardcore gamer either since PS4 has better hardware and less bullshit related to consumer rights. Maybe it's more expensive that gives it the edge? I have no freaking clue anymore.
That's why people are saying Sony destroy Microsoft.
XBOX got no edge at all.
Well.
Maybe if you like to watch TV TV TV.
You can purchase one.
=D
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On June 12 2013 04:10 takingbackoj wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2013 03:57 Caphe wrote:On June 12 2013 03:38 takingbackoj wrote:
Extremely good post Blisse and Stratos. I don't own MS or sony stock. I have owned every PS and Xbox since they came out and will buy both of them this time around. I have no horse in this race, but as I explained before, MS is trying to appeal to the broader audience. As Blisse pointed out, Sony did an excellent job at jumping aboard the internet rage train against MS and kudos to them for it but MS is going after people that didn't even care enough to watch E3. They are going after people with a little disposable income that are looking for something to enhance their entertainment centers and play a few good games.
Now with that being said, I don't think MS alienated gamers in the long run, they just didn't do them any favors either. Its not like Nintendo who after putting out the best system of its time with the 64, started a gradual downslide from the gamecube on in reference to games. MS will still have very good games that gamers will want to play.
Again, as Blisse pointed out MS is going to have to, and in a position to, really distance itself with exclusive content whether it be games, DLC, or non-gaming related features. Also, they need to do a better job explaining the positives of always online (yes there are some positives). If you think about it, always online gives some incredible options if they decide to use it properly game wise. Also, if the Live/PSN discrepancy still exists, that is still a huge positive to Xbox.
All in all, Xbox is far from dead. They took a large pr hit but they aren't dead. Their target audience probably didn't even watch E3. They know Xbox, they like the way Xbox feels and plays online, they like the extra features, and they are willing to spend the extra dough.
In my eyes, PS4 took a big lead, but I intended on buying them both as usual and nothing changed my mind about it. They will both have great games, they will both have their value but the thing about Xbox is, they have the cash and the infrastructure, with the always online deal and added features, to really amp up the experience in new ways for hardcore gamers and casual gamers alike. If MS can sit down and say "yeah we are more costly and yeah you have to always be online, but we are going to make it worth your while", if they can be innovative enough, the ceiling is higher imo for Xbox One than PS4. Many more possibilities for Xbox. Yeah, Xbox One is not dead. It just put itself far behind from the PS4 just like PS3 did in 2006. Problem here is PS3 was actually a stronger system in term of hardware back then, but they was one year late to the party and comes with a Cell structure that scare alot of devs early on. In the end, PS3 still have the same sales as Xbox360 worldwide(and will beat Xbox360 total sales in the future) despite the fact that they are one year late. XboxOne got the US but PS3 has some of it as well while Xbox360 has nothing on Asia. XboxOne now is in a much worse position than PS3 was in 2006. It is a weaker system, higher price, require online connection and non install base of Xbox 360 in Asia. I would take a lot of effort for the Xbox360 to come back. Only hardcore fanboy will buy the Xbox at this point while event at its strongest moment Xbox360 just can't sweep PS3 out of US(Sony sold nearly 30 millions PS3 in NA) Let's say that its true that their target audiences don't even watch E3. But if history teach us anything, it has teach us people buying console basing on its release date and price. PS2 was the king but with PS3 one year late in NA and come with a hefty price, people turn to Xbox360. Now that the XboxOne is $100 more expensive and comes out around the same time as PS4, people will go for the PS4. Also, this is 2013, with all that social media available, I really doubt that people that looking to buy a new console will hear nothing about that happened at E3. XboxOne is not dead but they would need a miracle to coming back if things stay as it is 'till release. MS needs to do something big and fast before release to actually has a chance to fight with Sony. I agree with your overall premise. Xbox is in a rough spot, but I wouldn't take it to the extreme. It depends on what you mean by "actually has a chance to fight with Sony." If you mean outsell then sure, if you mean, like others seem to suggest, it will die an embarrassing death and flop, then no. It will do well enough but probably struggle early on due to poor PR and the restrictions going into it. But like I said, they have a higher ceiling than PS4 with everything taken into account. If they can take those negatives (always online, price difference, non-gaming features) and use them to actually improve the gaming experience then they will have a solid chance, down the road, to be extremely competitive with the PS4.
The problem is that
1) I don't see how the XB1 has that much more potential than the PS4, which has better hardware, and
2) I don't think it's possible for MS to turn those negatives into positives in the near future. Society just isn't at the point where widespread "always online", a hefty cost, and constant DRM can be accessible or affordable. The "better community" line is sketchy at best, since plenty of games have fantastic communities and community experiences without being this restricting.
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On June 12 2013 04:10 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2013 04:08 TheRabidDeer wrote:On June 12 2013 04:05 squanzo wrote:On June 12 2013 04:00 Stratos_speAr wrote:On June 12 2013 03:50 Fruscainte wrote:On June 12 2013 03:47 Stratos_speAr wrote:On June 12 2013 03:14 maartendq wrote:On June 12 2013 03:12 Stratos_speAr wrote:On June 12 2013 03:07 Jockmcplop wrote:On June 12 2013 03:04 Stratos_speAr wrote:
[quote]
My first thought when the dude said, "Just relax it'll be over soon" was, "Oh shit, people are gonna get pissed."
If you can't see how this is offensive, you're simply ignorant about social dynamics. 'Social dynamics' Did you mean the social dynamics of rape comments or the social dynamics of mindlessly joining in when someone is being beaten down? The social dynamics of rape comments, how offensive they actually are outside of our little gaming world, and how incredibly sexist the gaming world actually is. Rape jokes are absolutely unacceptable anywhere else in society, and so gamers need to accept that when you are on a massively covered stage like E3, you don't just get to make rape jokes like you do on your couch with your buddies or behind the safety of your anonymous gamer tag online. I would advise you to never, ever watch any sketch by monty python and to never watch any episode of south park or family guy, because each of these shows make fun of any and all religions, handicaps and handicapped people, jews, the holocaust, hitler, etc. I also fail to see how anyone can be insulted by anything that does not personally affect them. Some of us aren't incredibly selfish and self-centered, so we care about others around us. On the topic of satire, that's the point of things like Monty Python, South Park, etc. It's satire. One of the biggest and most public stages in the entire world for video games is not. Hell, even if those shows just started throwing out racial or homophobic slurs with no context to make it satirical, they would get blasted by everyone, even moreso than they are now for being offensive. You started out calling us self centered and selfish, claiming we don't care about anyone around us. If you can't force the other side to agree with your position alienate them, criminalize them, and dehumanize them to create a moral highground. Classic. Come on man, we're better than this. It was a freaking joke. If they want to come into the gaming world they're going to have to grow some thicker skin because guess what, when people are being competitive they're going to trash talk. That's just the nature of competitive activities. Freaking out because someone said "It'll be over soon, don't worry" when they are absolutely destroying someone in a fighting game is one of the most inane, petty things I've ever seen whined about on an internet forum. Everyone is going to be offended by something. Trying to never offend anyone ever is a pointless goal. So we might as well just sit back and try to freaking enjoy ourselves a bit instead of throwing a shitfit over every little thing that offends us. I'm all for internet free speech. If you're going to enter the world of the internet and dealing with the private individual, you're going to have to deal with nastiness, just like in everyday life. However, gamers have to come to a realization as well. If they want gaming to become socially acceptable in a serious manner, they need to stop hiding behind this excuse, stop acting like 13-year-olds, and actually push those that represent the gaming community to be respectable. This doesn't mean pushing everyone to be politically correct, but merely holding those accountable that represent us, and that includes major developers like Sony and Microsoft. Also, I was responding to the claim that "you shouldn't be offended by anything that doesn't affect you." I'm not black. I'm not homosexual. However, if I see someone around me being blatantly racist or homophobic to someone who is either of these things, I'll give them a smackdown (either literally or verbally), because I believe in tolerance, empathy, and human dignity (and no, tolerance does not extend to tolerating intolerance. That is a bullshit argument put forth by morons who don't have any other way to hide their racism/sexism/homophobia/etc). Holy fuck, stop. There is absolutely nothing to what the guy was saying on the stage other than that the beatdown would "be over soon" This thread is giving me cancer. OMGOSH DID I SAY CANCER? IM SO INSENSITIVE TO PEOPLE WITH CANCER. Pretty much this. The only reason people think it was a rape comment is because people typically associate being beat hard in a video game to being "raped". The "it'll all be over soon" can be used for other things... such as when you are sick and want to hold back from throwing up. People sometimes say that to you so that you let it out. It isnt a direct rape comment, it is only viewed by some that way because she was getting destroyed (or in old gamer culture: raped). Good God, does that comment make me feel old.
On June 12 2013 04:10 Stratos_speAr wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2013 04:05 squanzo wrote:On June 12 2013 04:00 Stratos_speAr wrote:On June 12 2013 03:50 Fruscainte wrote:On June 12 2013 03:47 Stratos_speAr wrote:On June 12 2013 03:14 maartendq wrote:On June 12 2013 03:12 Stratos_speAr wrote:On June 12 2013 03:07 Jockmcplop wrote:On June 12 2013 03:04 Stratos_speAr wrote:On June 12 2013 02:04 xDaunt wrote:
[quote]
I can't even imagine how stiff people must be to have perceived the conversation that way in real time. It's like they're trying to find politically incorrect things to complain about. My first thought when the dude said, "Just relax it'll be over soon" was, "Oh shit, people are gonna get pissed." If you can't see how this is offensive, you're simply ignorant about social dynamics. 'Social dynamics' Did you mean the social dynamics of rape comments or the social dynamics of mindlessly joining in when someone is being beaten down? The social dynamics of rape comments, how offensive they actually are outside of our little gaming world, and how incredibly sexist the gaming world actually is. Rape jokes are absolutely unacceptable anywhere else in society, and so gamers need to accept that when you are on a massively covered stage like E3, you don't just get to make rape jokes like you do on your couch with your buddies or behind the safety of your anonymous gamer tag online. I would advise you to never, ever watch any sketch by monty python and to never watch any episode of south park or family guy, because each of these shows make fun of any and all religions, handicaps and handicapped people, jews, the holocaust, hitler, etc. I also fail to see how anyone can be insulted by anything that does not personally affect them. Some of us aren't incredibly selfish and self-centered, so we care about others around us. On the topic of satire, that's the point of things like Monty Python, South Park, etc. It's satire. One of the biggest and most public stages in the entire world for video games is not. Hell, even if those shows just started throwing out racial or homophobic slurs with no context to make it satirical, they would get blasted by everyone, even moreso than they are now for being offensive. You started out calling us self centered and selfish, claiming we don't care about anyone around us. If you can't force the other side to agree with your position alienate them, criminalize them, and dehumanize them to create a moral highground. Classic. Come on man, we're better than this. It was a freaking joke. If they want to come into the gaming world they're going to have to grow some thicker skin because guess what, when people are being competitive they're going to trash talk. That's just the nature of competitive activities. Freaking out because someone said "It'll be over soon, don't worry" when they are absolutely destroying someone in a fighting game is one of the most inane, petty things I've ever seen whined about on an internet forum. Everyone is going to be offended by something. Trying to never offend anyone ever is a pointless goal. So we might as well just sit back and try to freaking enjoy ourselves a bit instead of throwing a shitfit over every little thing that offends us. I'm all for internet free speech. If you're going to enter the world of the internet and dealing with the private individual, you're going to have to deal with nastiness, just like in everyday life. However, gamers have to come to a realization as well. If they want gaming to become socially acceptable in a serious manner, they need to stop hiding behind this excuse, stop acting like 13-year-olds, and actually push those that represent the gaming community to be respectable. This doesn't mean pushing everyone to be politically correct, but merely holding those accountable that represent us, and that includes major developers like Sony and Microsoft. Also, I was responding to the claim that "you shouldn't be offended by anything that doesn't affect you." I'm not black. I'm not homosexual. However, if I see someone around me being blatantly racist or homophobic to someone who is either of these things, I'll give them a smackdown (either literally or verbally), because I believe in tolerance, empathy, and human dignity (and no, tolerance does not extend to tolerating intolerance. That is a bullshit argument put forth by morons who don't have any other way to hide their racism/sexism/homophobia/etc). Holy fuck, stop. There is absolutely nothing to what the guy was saying on the stage other than that the beatdown would "be over soon" This thread is giving me cancer. OMGOSH DID I SAY CANCER? IM SO INSENSITIVE TO PEOPLE WITH CANCER. It's fun and all to be able to act like an adolescent and pretend that "nothing is offensive unless you make it offensive", "people just overreact", and "people need to get thicker skin", but in the real world, with adults, where certain phrases in a number of contexts have certain offensive connotations, and when they immediately draw a shocked response from the audience, it's pretty obvious that you said the wrong thing. Show nested quote +Pretty much this. The only reason people think it was a rape comment is because people typically associate being beat hard in a video game to being "raped". The "it'll all be over soon" can be used for other things... such as when you are sick and want to hold back from throwing up. People sometimes say that to you so that you let it out. It isnt a direct rape comment, it is only viewed by some that way because she was getting destroyed (or in old gamer culture: raped). What you describe is called context, and you need to be aware of it to operate in society.
The phrase can be used in any situation in which it is currently bad, but will be better later. That is the context. Rape is ONLY involved if people understand the culture of gamers back when "oh dude you are getting RAPED" was used. These are the ONLY people that will take it in the rape fashion.
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