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On May 25 2013 14:40 Ace wrote:
You're misunderstood. You quoted the NCAA rules and tried to apply it to the NBA. Just stop talking because you're clearly trolling or just not good at supporting your points.
NBA rules say the same thing. What you are contending is the definition of a pivot foot which isn't in the NBA rulebook.
This is in the NBA rulebook.
Section XIV-Traveling
b. A player who receives the ball while he is progressing or upon completion of a dribble, may use a two-count rhythm in coming to a stop, passing or shooting the ball.
The first count occurs:
(1) As he receives the ball, if either foot is touching the floor at the time he receives it.
The second occurs:
(1) After the count of one when either foot touches the floor, or both feet touch the floor simultaneously.
g. If a player, with the ball in his possession, raises his pivot foot off the floor, he must pass or shoot before his pivot foot returns to the floor. If he drops the ball while in the air, he may not be the first to touch the ball.
So that is the 2 counts rights there, him catching the ball while touching the ground, taking the first step, and then traveled by lifting his pivot.
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United States16096 Posts
The NBA rulebook is not the same as the NCAA. It hasn't been for like 15 years now.
pivoting is in the NBA rulebook. I'd like it if you actually cited your sources to appear legit in this discussion.
http://mediacentral.nba.com/media/mediacentral/Official-NBA-Rule-Book.pdf
On page 2 it tells you exactly what a pivot is. I mean how the hell could the official league not explain it?
Section VII—Pivot
a. A pivot takes place when a player, who is holding the ball, steps once or more than
once in any direction with the same foot, with the other foot (pivot foot) in contact with the
floor.
Now in the video you posted Lebron caught the ball on the move. Read the bolded. Watch the video again. Tell me when he allegedly established his pivot - how did he travel? In both quotes from nba.com that video in no way supports a traveling violation based on their rules.
You can stop now.
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You say tomato, I say tomato.
![[image loading]](http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/2675477/pgHOF.gif)
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So basically you proved my case for me? I couldn't find the rule about the pivot definition. So if we take your pivot rule and then look at the video again, do you not agree that Lebron took a step with his left foot first while holding the ball, thereby establishing his right foot as the pivot as per the pivot definition? And then he lifts his right foot breaking this rule:
g. If a player, with the ball in his possession, raises his pivot foot off the floor, he must pass or shoot before his pivot foot returns to the floor. If he drops the ball while in the air, he may not be the first to touch the ball.
http://www.nba.com/analysis/rules_10.html?nav=ArticleList
There is nothing in the pivot rules about him having to be stopped in order to establish a pivot. It simply says that he needs to have possession of the ball, then take a step, and then the other foot becomes the pivot.
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Using your video (page 184)
catches the ball at 8 seconds in. Lifts up his left foot, takes a step. As he does so, begins to drop the ball in its downward motion, takes another step. Is already dribbling at this point.
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United States16096 Posts
How can he break the rule when he doesn't even establish the pivot foot? Like do you just selectively read the text? Lebron James catches the ball on the move and goes. The rule says a pivot is takes place when the player holds the ball. The same thing we told you earlier - you can't establish a pivot on the move. It's right there in plain sight. You tried to apply NCAA ruling to it, tried to post a FIBA reffed game to prove it, and now you ignore the NBA's own definition. lol.
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United States16096 Posts
Using the link you just posted you somehow didn't even read this:
Section XIV-Traveling
a. A player who receives the ball while standing still may pivot, using either foot as the pivot foot.
b. A player who receives the ball while he is progressing or upon completion of a dribble, may use a two-count rhythm in coming to a stop, passing or shooting the ball.
The first count occurs:
(1) As he receives the ball, if either foot is touching the floor at the time he receives it.
(2) As the foot touches the floor, or as both feet touch the floor simultane- ously after he receives the ball, if both feet
See - you can't pivot on the move. Once again the NBA tells you you need to be standing still to pivot. Do you actually know the definition of a pivot? lol
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On May 25 2013 15:05 DystopiaX wrote:
Using your video (page 184)
catches the ball at 8 seconds in. Lifts up his left foot, takes a step. As he does so, begins to drop the ball in its downward motion, takes another step. Is already dribbling at this point.
Before releasing the ball he lifts his right foot.
On May 25 2013 15:05 Ace wrote:
How can he break the rule when he doesn't even establish the pivot foot? Like do you just selectively read the text? Lebron James catches the ball on the move and goes. The rule says a pivot is takes place when the player holds the ball. The same thing we told you earlier - you can't establish a pivot on the move. It's right there in plain sight. You tried to apply NCAA ruling to it, tried to post a FIBA reffed game to prove it, and now you ignore the NBA's own definition. lol.
Holds the ball means you have the ball in your hands i,e. holding the ball!! You can hold the ball while moving...
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He's pushing the ball down as he's moving his right foot, that's a fucking dribble.
He explicitly said standing still, you fucking troll. He reposted the rules 4 times and you've failed to read them 4 times.
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United States16096 Posts
On May 25 2013 15:09 DystopiaX wrote:
He's pushing the ball down as he's moving his right foot, that's a fucking dribble.
He's a selective reader. The stuff he's citing proves him wrong but he makes up his own definition. Sad what the Canadian's have become.
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That rule says that a standing player can pivot with either foot, it doesn't say what the definition of a pivot is. The definition of the pivot is basically what Ace linked earlier.
a. A pivot takes place when a player, who is holding the ball, steps once or more than
once in any direction with the same foot, with the other foot (pivot foot) in contact with the
floor.
b. If the player wishes to dribble after a pivot, the ball must be out of his hand before
the pivot foot is raised off the floor. If the player raises his pivot off the floor, he must pass
or attempt a field goal before the foot is returned to the floor.
If he fails to follow these guidelines, he has committed a traveling violation
This means that all you need to do is hold the ball in your hands and take a step (doesn't say anything about standing or moving) in order to establish a pivot. Then the second rule says once you lift the pivot before dribbling its a travel.
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1. it's not a pivot
2. even if it was, part b of the rule you cited proves it's not a travel. The ball is clearly on its way down when he lifts up his right foot (the one you labeled as his "pivot" foot). The ball doesn't have to hit the ground to be a live dribble, it has to be out of his hands. He's clearly pushing it down, dribbling.
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On May 25 2013 15:19 DystopiaX wrote:
1. it's not a pivot
2. even if it was, part b of the rule you cited proves it's not a travel. The ball is clearly on its way down when he lifts up his right foot (the one you labeled as his "pivot" foot). The ball doesn't have to hit the ground to be a live dribble, it has to be out of his hands. He's clearly pushing it down, dribbling.
It's not a pivot because you say so? lol okay. And I think you need to rewatch the video because the ball is clearly still in his hand right after the right foot is off the ground. He's pushing down but he doesnt release it until just after. And as I've already shown in other video and from the rules a pivot still takes place even if you are moving. So what are you guys saying it's like that everywhere but the NBA? And the NBA rules only say holding the ball, not standing still, which is consistent with NCAA, FIBA, high school rules etc.
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On May 25 2013 15:16 L3gendary wrote:That rule says that a standing player can pivot with either foot, it doesn't say what the definition of a pivot is. The definition of the pivot is basically what Ace linked earlier. Show nested quote +a. A pivot takes place when a player, who is holding the ball, steps once or more than
once in any direction with the same foot, with the other foot (pivot foot) in contact with the
floor.
b. If the player wishes to dribble after a pivot, the ball must be out of his hand before
the pivot foot is raised off the floor. If the player raises his pivot off the floor, he must pass
or attempt a field goal before the foot is returned to the floor.
If he fails to follow these guidelines, he has committed a traveling violation This means that all you need to do is hold the ball in your hands and take a step (doesn't say anything about standing or moving) in order to establish a pivot. Then the second rule says once you lift the pivot before dribbling its a travel.
you really don't have a clue do you?
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It's not a pivot because of all the reasons Ace and I have been citing for the past 3 pages.
Section III-Dribble
A dribble is movement of the ball, caused by a player in control, who throws or taps the ball into the air or to the floor.
a. The dribble ends when the dribbler:
(1) Touches the ball simultaneously with both hands
(2) Permits the ball to come to rest while he is in control of it
(3) Tries for a field goal
(4) Throws a pass
(5) Touches the ball more than once while dribbling, before it touches the floor
(6) Loses control
(7) Allows the ball to become dead
Throws or taps the ball to the floor. Lebron is clearly in the process of doing so. It's not like the end of a shotclock where the ball has to have left the players' hands. Lebron is clearly beginning his dribble by pushing (tapping in rulebook language) the ball down.
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On May 25 2013 15:28 L3gendary wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2013 15:19 DystopiaX wrote:
1. it's not a pivot
2. even if it was, part b of the rule you cited proves it's not a travel. The ball is clearly on its way down when he lifts up his right foot (the one you labeled as his "pivot" foot). The ball doesn't have to hit the ground to be a live dribble, it has to be out of his hands. He's clearly pushing it down, dribbling. It's not a pivot because you say so? lol okay. And I think you need to rewatch the video because the ball is clearly still in his hand right after the right foot is off the ground. He's pushing down but he doesnt release it until just after. And as I've already shown in other video and from the rules a pivot still takes place even if you are moving. So what are you guys saying it's like that everywhere but the NBA? And the NBA rules only say holding the ball, not standing still, which is consistent with NCAA, FIBA, high school rules etc.
You have not succeeded in establishing this, no, and said point has been addressed several times without a legitimate rebuttal.
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He was about to do it, yes, but the ball hasn't left his hand, and yes it does say in the rules it has to actually leave his hand, re-read rule b if you didn't catch that.
And I've shown clearly that FIBA, NCAA and NFHS follow my definition of the pivot (or do you not agree?) and also the NBA rule is also consistent with this definition of the pivot because as it says you need to hold the ball, not stand still. The only difference with standing is that you can use either foot as the pivot, as in the rule you stated. I don't even know what your arguments are, that pivoting is entirely different in the NBA compared to everywhere else? Even though the rules do not say it?
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Poor Birdman  hahaha
Wow, 4 pages of arguing about a travel call. Not sure why you'd bother. Dozens of borderline travels are let go every game.
Would love to see the Pacers win this series, could've been 2-0 but 1-1 is okay!
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United States16096 Posts
this is highly entertaining
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EPT
