EPTNBA Playoffs 2013 - Page 167
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
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heliusx
United States2306 Posts
On May 22 2013 12:58 DystopiaX wrote: The fall helped sell it, even ifnthenrefs shouldn't have considered it. Doesn't change the level of stupidity. Risking a career ending injury in hopes the refs won't do their job correctly? Dumb. In fact retarded. | ||
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slyboogie
United States3423 Posts
Why did I unmute my TV? | ||
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DystopiaX
United States16236 Posts
On May 22 2013 13:10 heliusx wrote: Doesn't change the level of stupidity. Risking a career ending injury in hopes the refs won't do their job correctly? Dumb. In fact retarded. I don't think that he thought the injury would be career ending. Even looking at it I don't see how it could have been. Dude basically landed on his hands and then pretended he hit his head. And that's with time to think about and calculate it. In the heat of the moment, Allen didn't have nearly the same amount of time. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On May 22 2013 13:18 DystopiaX wrote: I don't think that he thought the injury would be career ending. Even looking at it I don't see how it could have been. Dude basically landed on his hands and then pretended he hit his head. And that's with time to think about and calculate it. In the heat of the moment, Allen didn't have nearly the same amount of time. Oh I dont think that was the problem, it was how he went up (or rather out). | ||
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DystopiaX
United States16236 Posts
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heliusx
United States2306 Posts
On May 22 2013 13:18 DystopiaX wrote: I don't think that he thought the injury would be career ending. Even looking at it I don't see how it could have been. Dude basically landed on his hands and then pretended he hit his head. And that's with time to think about and calculate it. In the heat of the moment, Allen didn't have nearly the same amount of time. Why are you focusing on my hyperbole instead of what we actual started to discuss in our exchange? | ||
Jibba
United States22883 Posts
Lionel Hollins is so tough. | ||
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MassHysteria
United States3678 Posts
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RowdierBob
Australia13536 Posts
And that absolutely was a flagrant by Manu. He didn't even try to make a play for the ball and grabbed the guy's arm mid-air and pulled him down. Not a basketball play at all and happy for a flagrant to be issued there. | ||
XaI)CyRiC
United States4471 Posts
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Jibba
United States22883 Posts
A. Flagrant Foul Rules There are two types of Flagrant Fouls, as follows: Flagrant "1" (FFP1) - unnecessary contact committed by a player against an opponent. The opposing team is awarded two (2) free throws and possession. Flagrant "2" (FFP2) - unnecessary and excessive contact committed by a player against an opponent. The opposing team is awarded two (2) free throws and possession and the player committing the foul is automatically ejected. he League Office will consider the following factors (as well as any other relevant facts and circumstances) in determining whether to classify a foul as Flagrant "1" or Flagrant "2", to reclassify a flagrant foul, or to impose a fine and/or suspension on the player involved: 1. The severity of the contact; 2. Whether or not the player was making a legitimate basketball play (e.g., whether a player is making a legitimate effort to block a shot; note, however, that a foul committed during a block attempt can still be considered flagrant if other criteria are present such as recklessness and hard contact to the head); 3. Whether, on a foul committed with a player's arm or hand, the fouling player wound up and/or followed through after making contact; 4. The potential for injury resulting from contact (e.g., a blow to the head and a foul committed while a player is in a vulnerable position); 5. The severity of any injury suffered by the offended player; and 6. The outcome of the contact (e.g., whether it led to an altercation). 1. Wasn't severe at all. 2. I think this is what people mean when they say "making a play on the ball" but given the vague wording, I think you could argue a smart intentional foul is a "legitimate basketball play", even though it's not going for the ball. The example given only proves the case of a block, it doesn't disprove the case of an intentional foul. 3. No wind up and I don't think you consider that holding on as follow through. 4. Again, hard to say given the description. It wasn't a play on his head, but the potential was high because of his position in the air. 5. Not severe. 6. Again, stupidly vague description. The league needs to stop using such vague language and when they give examples, they shouldn't just give a single example describing one case. They should give counter examples describing cases where it doesn't apply. He definitely grabs on to Allen's arm. Under most circumstances, that's not an issue, but given #4 and #5, I'd say the size of the fall does matter. I think fouls where the offender is behind the player and the player is in the air are pretty dangerous, because that's where there's the most potential to send them flying. And yeah, Allen's flop was ridiculous. The Spurs should all show up at G3 wearing neck braces. | ||
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On_Slaught
United States12190 Posts
On May 22 2013 14:13 RowdierBob wrote: What a terrible game saved by the closeness of it all. This was always going to be a low-scoring defence oriented series but the offensive execution in that game was just awful. And that absolutely was a flagrant by Manu. He didn't even try to make a play for the ball and grabbed the guy's arm mid-air and pulled him down. Not a basketball play at all and happy for a flagrant to be issued there. I feel like we see that same play almost every game. That is a foul players constantly do to avoid the 3point play when they get beat in the paint. Had Allen caught that ball under the basket and went up there is 0% chance that gets called a flagrant. What got it called (hopefully the acting had no impact on their call) was the fact he was "vulnerable," imo. Plus, it looks like he is initially going for the ball but can't reach it so he just grabs the arm. Obviously there is an argument for it being a flagrant. However I HATE it when flagrants are called post-reaction to the hit. Looking at that video it looks like the ref called a normal foul at first. After all the flailing about they got together and said flagrant... | ||
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Jibba
United States22883 Posts
Will Brinson @WillBrinson 1h "Whether it's a flagrant foul or not ... Tony Allen, Pulitzer Prize winner." - Jalen Rose Oh Jalen... should've finished school. | ||
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RowdierBob
Australia13536 Posts
It was a flagrant. I don't think it was a cheapshot from Manu--he was doing what he had to do to prevent an easy two--but he has to accept the consequences of his actions there. Players are so vulnerable in the air like that. | ||
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Jibba
United States22883 Posts
On May 22 2013 14:42 On_Slaught wrote: I feel like we see that same play almost every game. That is a foul players constantly do to avoid the 3point play when they get beat in the paint. Had Allen caught that ball under the basket and went up there is 0% chance that gets called a flagrant. What got it called (hopefully the acting had no impact on their call) was the fact he was "vulnerable," imo. Plus, it looks like he is initially going for the ball but can't reach it so he just grabs the arm. Obviously there is an argument for it being a flagrant. However I HATE it when flagrants are called post-reaction to the hit. Looking at that video it looks like the ref called a normal foul at first. After all the flailing about they got together and said flagrant... One of the league's criteria is: The severity of any injury suffered by the offended player. Not saying it's a good thing, but I see a lot of people saying "the fall doesn't matter" or "it's not the resulting injury" when in fact, the NBA rules say those do matter. | ||
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icystorage
Jollibee19350 Posts
that made me fucking laugh. hahahahahahaha | ||
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On_Slaught
United States12190 Posts
I think the strongest argument in favor was the "vulnerability" of Allen (sub point 4). I think it's easy to argue that Manu was making a play on the ball considering he initially hit Allen less than a foot from the ball itself, between his elbow and wrist. The pulling down is what did him in. | ||
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DystopiaX
United States16236 Posts
On May 22 2013 14:42 On_Slaught wrote: I feel like we see that same play almost every game. That is a foul players constantly do to avoid the 3point play when they get beat in the paint. Had Allen caught that ball under the basket and went up there is 0% chance that gets called a flagrant. What got it called (hopefully the acting had no impact on their call) was the fact he was "vulnerable," imo. Plus, it looks like he is initially going for the ball but can't reach it so he just grabs the arm. Obviously there is an argument for it being a flagrant. However I HATE it when flagrants are called post-reaction to the hit. Looking at that video it looks like the ref called a normal foul at first. After all the flailing about they got together and said flagrant... People stop them from scoring, but they do not pull them down mid leap. | ||
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slyboogie
United States3423 Posts
Tony Allen was taking literary fiction to the next plane of it's existence. Like Jennifer Egan or Junot Diaz, Tony Allen was authoring a fictional moment of human expression on that floor. | ||
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