On May 22 2013 12:51 N1k0 wrote:
that was a flagrant on the current nba, allen overselled it, but it doesnt change the fact that he was in mid air and manu pulled down making no play at the ball.

Manu's Options (in order of danger to Tony Allen):
1. Watch
2. Weakass foul > Likely 3 point play
3. What he did.
4. Hard ass judo chop.

If they are going to call that a flagrant, might as well just say all fouls on a leaping player during a breakaway are flagrant.

DystopiaX

United States16236 Posts

May 22 2013 03:58 GMT

#3309

On May 22 2013 12:52 heliusx wrote:

Show nested quote +

Yes dumb. The fall isn't supposed be considered in a flagrant and he could have seriously injured himself. The refs failed at doing their job.

The fall helped sell it, even ifnthenrefs shouldn't have considered it.

ghrur

United States3786 Posts

May 22 2013 03:58 GMT

#3310

On May 22 2013 12:57 cLutZ wrote:

Show nested quote +

I agree. Also, they're encouraging future players to make such dumbass falls and possibly injure themselves flopping when honestly, that type of foul shouldn't have been anywhere near so dangerous.

MassHysteria

United States3678 Posts

May 22 2013 04:01 GMT

#3311

On May 22 2013 12:36 Jibba wrote:

Show nested quote +

On May 22 2013 12:17 MassHysteria wrote:

On May 22 2013 12:02 Jibba wrote:

On May 22 2013 11:45 MassHysteria wrote:

On May 22 2013 09:55 Ace wrote:
Well as a quick response - traditional SGs/SFs can't finish like Wade either. He is an extreme outlier. But I get what you are saying in that Wade's "PG" ability is leveraged by his athletic ability. Is that correct?

lol Cleveland

I guess scratch what I said originally because PG is just a position so you are right in a sense and I can work with that. What I mean is a team with a PG/ ball-handler that primarily runs the P&R and no post-game. I guess I am going back to my 2-year-old argument and say that there needs to be a post presence to get the trophy. Few, few exceptions (jordan and james both had post games when they won so not even them).

What? I don't think you can count Jordan and James's post games in the "need a big man to win a championship" discussion. Then you're just saying "you need a post game to win a championship" which is like saying "you need rebounders to win a championship."

No, I don't think you need a dominant post player to win. I think it helps because they're generally the best help defenders in the league, but you don't need that offensive threat more than any other offensive threat. You can basically add Mavs to the list with the Bulls and Heat.

I only said post-presence, I specifically didn't say big men anywhere in that statement. And both LBJ and MJ had post games when they won. LBJ could have won it by doing P&R with a stretch 4 against the Mavs but he choked. Even then the Mavs are the only exception that immediately came to my mind when I thought about it. And they needed the DPOY Chandler to do it, a hot Nowitzki and Terry for the playoffs, and a choking Cavs team in the finals.

When LBJ won it last year, he had developed his post-game ^^...He has one of the top post-games now really.

I am only adding this caveat in addition the what I said about needing the perimeter player paired with another perimeter player or a dominant big-man. One of them has to have post-presence though. Pick and roll won't cut it really. Mavs were really the only exception that came to my mind immediately (reason why I said exceptions actually). Because even the Pistons had Rasheed.

Yeah but this is like saying you need someone with ball handling skills to win a championship. Post-presence is no more the key factor than having a leading driver or a wing defender. Every position, including PG, features players with a post presence and they don't always need it to win.

"They needed 1 or 2 other players playing great basketball to do it" basically describes every championship team ever. I mean, there's only so many ways to score and you need variety, so it makes sense that post-presence is common, but so are elite wing players and quick PGs and 3pt shooters. Is Howard a post player, even though he has no clue how to play with his back to the basket and Deron Williams and Chauncey have more post moves than him?

Lebron's post game didn't really take form until this year. Last year the Heat ran the majority of their stuff through the double high at the top of the key, but it wasn't really a post game. And Dirk still takes something like 70%+ mid-range jump shots, not points inside like Pau or Duncan.

The discussion stemmed from having a top notch point guard and how it translates to championships, but a top notch point guard can also be your post presence (as was the case with Billups, who did way more posting than Sheed.)

No, the only thing I have cared about discussing is the theory about having the perimeter player paired with another one or a dominant big-man inside.

The point guard thing came up because I was trying to discuss why Chris paul might seem overrated. And this new argument supports that because it really comes down to him not having any post-presence on that team.

And Howard definitely is a post player. The problem is he only has 2 moves =P. With his size & athleticism though, those 2 moves are pretty dam good.

I actually think LBJ started being used less in the perimeter and more inside as soon as he signed with Miami (compared to CLE at least) but it didn't take off until after the loss to the Mavs in their first year. After he decided to go work with Hakeem the Dream over the summer.

EDIT: Just put on game like 2 minutes ago! ;(

slyboogie

United States3423 Posts

May 22 2013 04:03 GMT

#3312

Do you think there's a team out there in this situation that would foul Memphis after the Parker free throws?

slyboogie

United States3423 Posts

May 22 2013 04:05 GMT

#3313

WTF did Memphis just use 2 timeouts?

MassHysteria

United States3678 Posts

May 22 2013 04:05 GMT

#3314

if anyone the genius Pops right?

Bayless got excited there, pissing Hollins off

slyboogie

United States3423 Posts

May 22 2013 04:06 GMT

#3315

That's the shot you wanted with two timeouts?

EDIT: Keep it up Rex, you've got a future in this league.

mjxn

Australia939 Posts

May 22 2013 04:06 GMT

#3316

Wow what a shot.

zoLo

United States5896 Posts

May 22 2013 04:07 GMT

#3317

Sick shot...

On_Slaught

United States12190 Posts

May 22 2013 04:07 GMT

#3318

Wow what a horrrrible shot by Bayless, who has been great all night.

Looks like the injustice that is Allen's flagrant foul won't be rewarded this game.

slyboogie

United States3423 Posts

May 22 2013 04:09 GMT

#3319

On May 22 2013 13:07 On_Slaught wrote:
Wow what a horrrrible shot by Bayless, who has been great all night.

Looks like the injustice that is Allen's flagrant foul won't be rewarded this game.

I'm sure if we keep talking about the officiating, it will get corrected.