EPTNBA Playoffs 2013 - Page 164
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On_Slaught
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DystopiaX
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On_Slaught
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On_Slaught
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VayneAuthority
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DystopiaX
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DystopiaX
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MassHysteria
United States3678 Posts
On May 22 2013 09:55 Ace wrote: Well as a quick response - traditional SGs/SFs can't finish like Wade either. He is an extreme outlier. But I get what you are saying in that Wade's "PG" ability is leveraged by his athletic ability. Is that correct? lol Cleveland I guess scratch what I said originally because PG is just a position so you are right in a sense and I can work with that. What I mean is a team with a PG/ ball-handler that primarily runs the P&R and no post-game. I guess I am going back to my 2-year-old argument and say that there needs to be a post presence to get the trophy. Few, few exceptions (jordan and james both had post games when they won so not even them). | ||
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a176
Canada6688 Posts
yet. | ||
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ghrur
United States3786 Posts
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Jibba
United States22883 Posts
On May 22 2013 11:45 MassHysteria wrote: I guess scratch what I said originally because PG is just a position so you are right in a sense and I can work with that. What I mean is a team with a PG/ ball-handler that primarily runs the P&R and no post-game. I guess I am going back to my 2-year-old argument and say that there needs to be a post presence to get the trophy. Few, few exceptions (jordan and james both had post games when they won so not even them). What? I don't think you can count Jordan and James's post games in the "need a big man to win a championship" discussion. Then you're just saying "you need a post game to win a championship" which is like saying "you need rebounders to win a championship." No, I don't think you need a dominant post player to win. I think it helps because they're generally the best help defenders in the league, but you don't need that offensive threat more than any other offensive threat. You can basically add the Mavs to the list with the Bulls and Heat, since Dirk is almost like a SG in a C's body. | ||
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MassHysteria
United States3678 Posts
On May 22 2013 12:02 Jibba wrote: What? I don't think you can count Jordan and James's post games in the "need a big man to win a championship" discussion. Then you're just saying "you need a post game to win a championship" which is like saying "you need rebounders to win a championship." No, I don't think you need a dominant post player to win. I think it helps because they're generally the best help defenders in the league, but you don't need that offensive threat more than any other offensive threat. You can basically add Mavs to the list with the Bulls and Heat. I only said post-presence, I specifically didn't say big men anywhere in that statement. And both LBJ and MJ had post games when they won. LBJ could have won it by doing P&R with a stretch 4 against the Mavs but he choked. Even then the Mavs are the only exception that immediately came to my mind when I thought about it. And they needed the DPOY Chandler to do it, a hot Nowitzki and Terry for the playoffs, and a choking When LBJ won it last year, he had developed his post-game ^^...He has one of the top post-games now really. I am only adding this caveat in addition the what I said about needing the perimeter player paired with another perimeter player or a dominant big-man. One of them has to have post-presence though. Pick and roll won't cut it really. Mavs were really the only exception that came to my mind immediately (reason why I said exceptions actually). Because even the Pistons had Rasheed. edit:corrected Cavs to Heat | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
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MassHysteria
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DystopiaX
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Jibba
United States22883 Posts
On May 22 2013 12:17 MassHysteria wrote: I only said post-presence, I specifically didn't say big men anywhere in that statement. And both LBJ and MJ had post games when they won. LBJ could have won it by doing P&R with a stretch 4 against the Mavs but he choked. Even then the Mavs are the only exception that immediately came to my mind when I thought about it. And they needed the DPOY Chandler to do it, a hot Nowitzki and Terry for the playoffs, and a choking Cavs team in the finals. When LBJ won it last year, he had developed his post-game ^^...He has one of the top post-games now really. I am only adding this caveat in addition the what I said about needing the perimeter player paired with another perimeter player or a dominant big-man. One of them has to have post-presence though. Pick and roll won't cut it really. Mavs were really the only exception that came to my mind immediately (reason why I said exceptions actually). Because even the Pistons had Rasheed. Yeah but this is like saying you need someone with ball handling skills to win a championship. Post-presence is no more the key factor than having a leading driver or a wing defender. Every position, including PG, features players with a post presence and they don't always need it to win. "They needed 1 or 2 other players playing great basketball to do it" basically describes every championship team ever. I mean, there's only so many ways to score and you need variety, so it makes sense that post-presence is common, but so are elite wing players and quick PGs and 3pt shooters. Is Howard a post player, even though he has no clue how to play with his back to the basket and Deron Williams and Chauncey have more post moves than him? Lebron's post game didn't really take form until this year. Last year the Heat ran the majority of their stuff through the double high at the top of the key, but it wasn't really a post game. And Dirk still takes something like 70%+ mid-range jump shots, not points inside like Pau or Duncan. The discussion stemmed from having a top notch point guard and how it translates to championships, but a top notch point guard can also be your post presence (as was the case with Billups, who did way more posting than Sheed.) | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
If this is a flagrant, the Entire NBA should be fired. Edit: Tony Allen should be fined. | ||
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Scarecrow
Korea (South)9174 Posts
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ghrur
United States3786 Posts
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wurm
Philippines2296 Posts
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