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Grettin
42381 Posts
On May 21 2013 21:22 Livinpink wrote: Actually I did call out to Dalamar  And yeah props to my elf bro yo! Oh, sorry then! I guess i just missed it or expected a huge spectacle or something. Congratulations on your new ferret though.  | ||
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Zinnwaldite
Norway1567 Posts
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Mothra
United States1448 Posts
On May 22 2013 01:41 Zinnwaldite wrote: Damn it guys,, why did none of you roll wiz? Do you see what you're missing? Tentacles, Lizard summons, levitation, invisibility.. >_> xD Well cleric has been not bad... exploding tables, involuntary stripping for perv wizards... | ||
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CPUCore
4 Posts
For example the thing with the one armed/ tastefull booty shorts assassin.That thing happened and I was like... ok that was fun and interesting, I wonder how it will all end... and 10 weeks later nothing happens or is expected to happen regarding it. Same thing with Uncle Oris, at the start it seems like an awesome part of the story and it really was, so I'm like so excited to see how it all turns out and then nothing happens.Same with Brightblade. Basically most of the storylines were like this to me.They start off super exciting and you expect some kind of epic conclusion that will reveal everything surrounding the story, it leaves you wanting and expecting more aaaand you never actually get it. What I would suggest is that there should be one main storyline that will be very long and end after weeks and weeks, something like a main quest, and a bunch of side storylines/quests that are shorter, but still have a conclusion to them. Maybe it's just me and no one thinks like this.This is actually the first D&D game that I have watched...ever, so it is obvious that I don't understand how it exactly works.I'm in no way trying to say that the story so far is bad or uninteresting, I just think that it can become even more awesome for the viewers and the players.I absolutely love the show and everyone who is involved in it | ||
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Simberto
Germany11638 Posts
Sometimes something can randomly happen later down the line to show the result of something you did before. For example, someone could tell them that Uncle Oris suddenly went crazy and did weird experiments on the sick in his care, and got executed for that, and noone knows why he did it if they happen to be in that area again. | ||
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quirinus
Croatia2489 Posts
On May 22 2013 03:57 CPUCore wrote: I don't know if anyone feels like this, but I kinda think that the story is starting to get a little bit sluggish and not as exciting to follow.I think I get this feeling due to the fact that, there are so many storylines and none of them come to a definite end. For example the thing with the one armed/ tastefull booty shorts assassin.That thing happened and I was like... ok that was fun and interesting, I wonder how it will all end... and 10 weeks later nothing happens or is expected to happen regarding it. Same thing with Uncle Oris, at the start it seems like an awesome part of the story and it really was, so I'm like so excited to see how it all turns out and then nothing happens.Same with Brightblade. Basically most of the storylines were like this to me.They start off super exciting and you expect some kind of epic conclusion that will reveal everything surrounding the story, it leaves you wanting and expecting more aaaand you never actually get it. What I would suggest is that there should be one main storyline that will be very long and end after weeks and weeks, something like a main quest, and a bunch of side storylines/quests that are shorter, but still have a conclusion to them. Maybe it's just me and no one thinks like this.This is actually the first D&D game that I have watched...ever, so it is obvious that I don't understand how it exactly works.I'm in no way trying to say that the story so far is bad or uninteresting, I just think that it can become even more awesome for the viewers and the players.I absolutely love the show and everyone who is involved in it This is not some generic pc game that has quests: go there, do that, finish it, the end. This is more like real life, if you blink things happen and disappear without a chance to do them. You can't pursuit everything selfishly when you have so many people playing with you (and watching you!), you have to take their desires and time in account, especially since it's limited just to 4h per week. The world doesn't revolve just around the player characters, it's happy to go on without them, like a normal world would. (at least that's the feeling I get, because Neal does an amazing job) | ||
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Grettin
42381 Posts
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CPUCore
4 Posts
On May 22 2013 04:21 quirinus wrote: This is not some generic pc game that has quests: go there, do that, finish it, the end. This is more like real life, if you blink things happen and disappear without a chance to do them. You can't pursuit everything selfishly when you have so many people playing with you (and watching you!), you have to take their desires and time in account, especially since it's limited just to 4h per week. The world doesn't revolve just around the player characters, it's happy to go on without them, like a normal world would. (at least that's the feeling I get, because Neal does an amazing job) Neal absolutely does an amazing job.As I said I love the show so far and I also have little understanding of how things should work in a D&D game.Guess I'm used to being forced a specific storyline like in all the games/ movies and this is something different. | ||
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GoldenH
1115 Posts
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Koibu0
United States513 Posts
The reveal was supposed to be pretty dramatic, and before the players went back to Fitchview. This one guy, Fellstar, had orchestrated this rising tensions between Valesburg and Palanthas, used monsters (goblins and ogres) to scare the populace into raising an army, and kidnapped people as hostages. As for the stuff with Hector and the thief, well, the PCs are following up on that right now. They screwed over that thief pretty well and threatened her life if she ever came back, so she took off. The party made sure she wouldn't come back. Pretty much the only unresolved story lines are Oris & Dalamar, and Brightblade. | ||
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AntiGrav1ty
Germany2310 Posts
On May 22 2013 05:51 GoldenH wrote: Just compare it to the Search for the Ferret: They may want to follow up on these hanging storylines, but they don't have any leads with which to do so. So they are wandering around until they find an hook and then that might reveal bit more of the story. There are other GMing styles, but you can have fun with this one just fine! Dunno what you are talking about. They ignore tons of leads every single week and Neal does a pretty good job rolling with it and tying it together. | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On May 22 2013 05:57 Koibu0 wrote: Pretty much the only unresolved story lines are Dalamar & Dalamar, and Dalamar. fixed that for you Neal. | ||
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Grettin
42381 Posts
LOL, very true | ||
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Goldfish
2230 Posts
1. First (and simple) saying that a character is like a "non-playable character" simply because they have background stuff that goes on between the DM is the wrong use of the term. NPC means that, non-playable character. Also, it makes sense. The DM basically represents the world and how everyone interacts with said world and said story in the first place. If a character has background stuff that is a secret then they keep things between them and the DM (and everything has stuff that isn't out in the open, especially to your friends for example, in RL... in a fantasy world, things are a bit epic with magic heirlooms and stuff for example but it's no different). Also in terms of magical artifacts that they somehow have (but the PC doesn't know what it does), of course it has to do something and only the DM knows (and can do something with it) because again, the DM basically represents the world (the DM needs to know or develop things the players themselves have but do not know about). 2. Second, from a story perceptive (dungeons and dragons being potentially more story focused than Elder Scrolls with the "You're a generic chosen one person that revealed in the prophecy to defeat <insert bad guy here>), I like that all characters have interesting background and things that aren't revealed right at the beginning (the players and their characters keep that thing to themselves "but" since again, the dungeon master needs to know everything about the player and develop any thing that the player themselves do not know about, a magical heirloom for example, then of course they need to work out it with the DM). For example, remember when + Show Spoiler + it was revealed Vincent was a prince and noble (due to him wanting to get a duel to save Tudagub)? That was exciting when it happened (If not for that scenario, I'm not sure when Geoff would have revealed when his character was a prince). Speaking of the reveal (unrelated to this post but random thoughts)+ Show Spoiler + and that moment seemed like a a time for nerds to scream "Deus ex Machina!!1111" but great thing about it was since the players make up things about their characters before hand (before they got into the situation where Tudagub was about to be executed for murder) that it wasn't. Since, "Deus ex Machina" should really only apply when it seems like the writers wrote themselves to a corner, and need something (that hasn't been developed or brought up or whatever) to get them out of that situation. Of course, that didn't apply at all in this situation. It's one of those *"this may come in handy" moments that the players (when developing their character and choosing certain traits or background story info they have) make up at the beginning of the story. *Of course I doubt Geoff picked his character being a prince just in case their group would get arrested but that trait does have its perks too. (Plus, it's not like the DM in this case did anything to help the PCs out of that situation. A lot of things like nobles being able to do a duel for innocence is established as a rule for the world, usually when creating said world in the first place. It's also neat that Geoff/Vincent was hinting at his character being a prince when he repetitively busted our gosu knowledge of nobles and princes too during the trials for Tudagub, which actually hinted at it and therefore is yet another reason it wasn't a case of nerds having an excuse to scream deus ex machina.) Speaking of that, deus ex machina aren't really a problem (or a term to be called out in the first place) if it's used as a reveal for something mid story (as long as it doesn't end the entire story and world in it), and especially if it leads to something more interesting by developing or exploring the character or exploring the specific "reveal" better (for example, dragon ball to dragon ball z). (Yes, Dragon Ball actually has a really solid story IMO, minus all the excessive padding from the anime.) That is, even if Geoff and the DM didn't establish his character as a prince and noble before hand (and if it is just sort of happened like at that point in time), then I say it wouldn't a deus ex machina moment. If a writer decides "hmm, actually it'd be interesting if this character has <insert trait here> that wasn't hinted at before", then that's acceptable especially if they plan to develop it much further (that's what I mean from DB to DBZ... Goku is a saiyan? He's the chosen one? He can turn super saiyan and save everyone? Then after he defeats Frieza... Dragon Ball suddenly turns from a sort of a "magical" fantasy martial arts series into something ridiculously science fictiony in the Trunks-Cell saga... which actually was done really well IMO.) (Plus, Vincent actually got owned in the duel, so nerds can't scream the "Deus Ex Machina!!!1111" as an excuse for Tudagub being saved because said reveal actually didn't solve the problem, though I guess the duel and the gathering of the crowd at a specific place did help set up a distraction and methods of escape.) And what is the point of this part of the post? The DM is like a writer of the story except he writes a story together with players taking the role of certain characters in the DM/Writer's world, and this really gives you an unique perspective of how stories can really come to be naturally. It's really interesting actually. Anyway, back to the usage of "NPC" post that I had... 3. And again, in regards to background stories, it isn't much different than Elder Scrolls (for example) with how they reveal to the player that "You are the chosen one!!! You have dragon blood and the ability to do stuff!". (Of course with Elder Scrolls, the "hidden background stuff about your character" usually is revealed really early on and it only really amounts to you being the only one able to defeat the bad guy or something but it's similar in the sense that there is background stuff for a player's character and just because they have background stuff that isn't revealed right away, even to the player themselves playing the PC, does not make the character an NPC.) tl;dr - A player character having behind the scenes background stuff with the DM (that represents the world and needs to work that out with the player) does not equal "non-playable character" (because NPC means that, players don't play that particular character). A lot of things Abigael do (like hoard gold, play with her ferret+ Show Spoiler + before the ferret sadly dies love potion to get good armor for free I may be making a big deal out of this (the person did say "like an npc") but the comment sort of came off sort of negative to me (my apologizes if it wasn't meant that way) and I just wanted to defend Neal and Gen with how they do stuff with Abigael, and plus (again) it's the wrong usage of the term (again, Abigael isn't an NPC because basically everything is done by an actual player, Gen + again, the background stuff doesn't have to be revealed right away and if that's the case, it has to be done behind the scenes with the DM since the DM needs to know what the player knows or doesn't know, and if the latter, needs to develop some things appropriately). Edit - Fixed spelling Tudagub >.>. | ||
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swaggasaurusRex
9 Posts
On May 21 2013 11:18 Qwyn wrote: As for the flour, how are you going to chuck a bag of flower 25 feet up in the air, let alone know where he is after he went? I guess you would do it before then, cute idea. Bag of flower is a wasted inventory spot in any other situation, though. There's all sorts of fun you can have with mundane items! I grant, throwing a bag of flour 25 feet in the air might be tricky, but AFAIK Neal stated earlier in the game (around the time they were fighting hellhounds on the road maybe?) that levitation only grants upward/downward movement. If so, at least the party would have a rough idea of where the 'column' that he could be in would be. For another use... ...It's a quiet, calm evening with our heroes resting by the roadside when bam --- ambush. Baddies are approaching you from the other side of the campfire... in the face. A bag of flour, a 10 foot pole, a couple ropes and a hammer+pitons and there's nothing you can't do  | ||
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CPUCore
4 Posts
On May 22 2013 05:51 GoldenH wrote: Just compare it to the Search for the Ferret: They may want to follow up on these hanging storylines, but they don't have any leads with which to do so. So they are wandering around until they find an hook and then that might reveal bit more of the story. There are other GMing styles, but you can have fun with this one just fine! Yes, I totally agree.Now that I thought about it some more, I really get why some of the story stuff are not happening the way I expect them to happen.The story is half DM, half players driven and that makes it kind of random, which in my opinion is a double-edged sword, because although it's fun to see a player react unexpectedly to a certain situation (Tudagub brakes the Crystal ball), it also kind of takes away from the scripted story that the DM has created. So I guess the decision that has to be made is do we want more player driven storytelling which is random or DM driven which is more scripted like in a videogame.Personally I don't mind the story being a little bit more DM driven, because I don't mind being forced a particular story, if it's really good.So if we say that right now it's 50% DM, 50% players, I wouldn't mind it, if it was 65/45.But you know... that's just me and how I see things.You can't even question the fact that some random player decisions can be very awesome :D Also now that I thought about this, I have even more respect for Neal and what he does, because video games and movies have it easy man... everything is scripted and you know that at that particular moment, this is exactly what will happen.They dont't have hidden unknown factors like - one of the players brakes the main artifact of the main plot and now we have to go on from there.Also really sad that the whole Goblins/Fellstar/war between cities didn't get as a dramatic reveal as Neal had hoped for, because that was all tied together very well, but I guess that's how D&D is sometimes. | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On May 22 2013 14:53 CPUCore wrote: Yes, I totally agree.Now that I thought about it some more, I really get why some of the story stuff are not happening the way I expect them to happen.The story is half DM, half players driven and that makes it kind of random, which in my opinion is a double-edged sword, because although it's fun to see a player react unexpectedly to a certain situation (Tudagub brakes the Crystal ball), it also kind of takes away from the scripted story that the DM has created. So I guess the decision that has to be made is do we want more player driven storytelling which is random or DM driven which is more scripted like in a videogame.Personally I don't mind the story being a little bit more DM driven, because I don't mind being forced a particular story, if it's really good.So if we say that right now it's 50% DM, 50% players, I wouldn't mind it, if it was 65/45.But you know... that's just me and how I see things.You can't even question the fact that some random player decisions can be very awesome :D Also now that I thought about this, I have even more respect for Neal and what he does, because video games and movies have it easy man... everything is scripted and you know that at that particular moment, this is exactly what will happen.They dont't have hidden unknown factors like - one of the players brakes the main artifact of the main plot and now we have to go on from there.Also really sad that the whole Goblins/Fellstar/war between cities didn't get as a dramatic reveal as Neal had hoped for, because that was all tied together very well, but I guess that's how D&D is sometimes. I'll tell you that pure DM driven stuff tends to get really boring really fast from a non participant point of view. It ends up being either fetch quests with random encounters or dungeon crawling, both of which get pretty dry (think goblin cave, but weeks at a time). Its not that DM driven stuff is boring, its just repetitive when the players have no real input. Think about Dalamar's quests, every time its been go to this place and bring this object/person back. but each had distinctly different feels because of player decision. | ||
Falling
Canada11372 Posts
The one thing a DM/GM MUST avoid at all costs is something that is called railroading. The DM comes into a campaign wanting to tell a story like it was a novel. Players try to wander off the tracks and quickly find that the DM is disallowing them from deviate from his/her pre-imagined plot. Nothing but trouble will result from this. This is the frustation that many people have with many modern video games that are just a series of linear hallways connected by quicktime events. D&D becomes extremely frustrating if players don't feel like they have autonomy over their characters and are not able to explore the nooks of the universe created. If you ever have the time a fellow by the name of Shamus Young made an excellent webcomic using Lord of the Rings screencaps. He basically reimagined LotR's as a extremely controlling D&D that railroads his characters into his 'epic' arc. DM of the Rings It is complete and relatively short as far as online webcomic series go and well worth reading. Shamus has a lot of good insights into games imo. | ||
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GoldenH
1115 Posts
Think like all the times in Skyrim where someone asked you 'who are you?' and I just wanted to click the 'I'm the goddamn Dragonborn.' Or that time in Starcraft where you totally knew that the Zerg were going to overrun the planet and you had Kerrigan in a shuttle but nooo the game wouldn't.... Well, that's what RPGs let you do! Now you can have a really tight story in a RPG, if the DM is doing a 'collaborative storytelling' style of RPG, but those usually are much shorter too. This game will probably cover years or decades of in-game time, especially since Neil is riffing off Dragonlance so hard... | ||
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Falling
Canada11372 Posts
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