On December 22 2020 02:41 PassiveAce wrote: How would a court go about determining that a game is too defective to be sold? Almost all AAA titles have bugs and performance issues, so how and where would a court draw the line? Especially if the devs own distribution system already has a refund system in place?
Presumably, if refunds exist, there is simply no room for consumers to sue, but the rumor is of investors suing CDPR, no?
There are no rumours. There's no room for shareholders to sue. They weren't being lied to. A substantial amount of shares are held by the board members themselves. Would be kind of counterproductive to sue the own entity you control.
On December 22 2020 03:10 PassiveAce wrote: For what? Do the console issues breach their contract somehow?
I'm no lawyer at all but I assume it would revolve around whether or not CDPR knew that the game had major issues on console and launched anyway which led to the stock price tanking and therefor cost shareholders a lot of money.
On December 22 2020 03:08 Dangermousecatdog wrote: There are no rumours. There's no room for shareholders to sue. They weren't being lied to. A substantial amount of shares are held by the board members themselves. Would be kind of counterproductive to sue the own entity you control.
There are rumours. The rumours may be incorrect, but they exist.
On December 22 2020 02:41 PassiveAce wrote: How would a court go about determining that a game is too defective to be sold? Almost all AAA titles have bugs and performance issues, so how and where would a court draw the line? Especially if the devs own distribution system already has a refund system in place?
Probably depends on where you are at. But considering courts manage to do this with every other product, i assume some criteria and ways to judge do exist. I agree that it might be a bit harder with a video game. But it shouldn't be impossible.
A lot of the blame for allowing it to go out like that has to questions sony and Microsoft's role in it. Every game from the times of the great crash have been certified by the console owners to be playable and at the very least have their stamp of approval. 2077 got this stamp AND THEN DELAYED A MONTH. How bad had it had to have been to be certified a month before what they got.
These "rumors" of class actions or even criminal charges are fucking silly and should be ignored.
I haven't played pc games in a long time, but the way the industry has changed over the last decade has always felt bad. Games are a lot more expensive, up from the 30 (max 40 for AAA games) from that period and nowadays, it seems standard that they are littered with bugs upon release. I remember when a game being bug ridden was considered bad, but even then, these bugs were never game breaking and the company patched asap.
On December 22 2020 05:00 Sermokala wrote: A lot of the blame for allowing it to go out like that has to questions sony and Microsoft's role in it. Every game from the times of the great crash have been certified by the console owners to be playable and at the very least have their stamp of approval. 2077 got this stamp AND THEN DELAYED A MONTH. How bad had it had to have been to be certified a month before what they got.
These "rumors" of class actions or even criminal charges are fucking silly and should be ignored.
Actually, the rumors stem from one of the CDPR investors who happens to be a lawyer who posted on Polish banking/financial news site an article about the legal team investigating the possibility of issuing a class-action against CDPR for breaking one of the articles of Polish Penal Code (misrepresentation in order to obtain benefits). This could potentially be serious.
New York lawfirm is also looking into suing CDPR and wants investors who purchased ADRs to contact them.
Whatever happens, CDPR has managed to piss off a lot of people (including their own employees) and is now under siege on all fronts.
Edit: Pretty much my thoughts on this release too:
On December 22 2020 02:50 Sbrubbles wrote: I have to wonder if CDPR's management's original plan was to delay the game bit by bit, but was taken aback by amount of backlash its first round of delays generated and adjusted plan to this, leading to the current mess.
Who in their right mind decides that delaying bit by bit is good practice? You delay once and then make damn sure it's enough time to finish your product.
On December 22 2020 02:50 Sbrubbles wrote: I have to wonder if CDPR's management's original plan was to delay the game bit by bit, but was taken aback by amount of backlash its first round of delays generated and adjusted plan to this, leading to the current mess.
Who in their right mind decides that delaying bit by bit is good practice? You delay once and then make damn sure it's enough time to finish your product.
This implies the management know how to use the time properly and has proper time management skills. So far it seems that for games this is a skill nobody invested in.
On December 22 2020 03:10 PassiveAce wrote: For what? Do the console issues breach their contract somehow?
I'm no lawyer at all but I assume it would revolve around whether or not CDPR knew that the game had major issues on console and launched anyway which led to the stock price tanking and therefor cost shareholders a lot of money.
I beleve there are shareholder meetings where they claimed it runs fine. Considering SONY removed the game from the store and offered full refunds which doesn't usually happen, it's not good.
Also if they really didn't properly know, it would cost them more PR from gamers IMO. Gaming company offering games for consoles while never trying on them(next gen wasnt released until recently, so that would mean they never even tried it)
This game was indev for what? 7 years? Something like that? Then focused on the last 3-4 years? I'm assuming they figured that they wouldn't have to release on previous gen but the current year fucked that up and they had to scramble to get it developed. This has to be the scenario, because CDPR wouldn't release this on old consoles knowing full well that it wasn't ready. To be running pretty well on everything but last gen consoles says they intended for this to be next-gen and PC only. Not making excuses for them by any stretch, just trying to understand the reasoning for going back to include last gen when it wasn't in the cards feasibly.
This would have been solved by delaying release on last gen like someone else mentioned, but the cries from last gen gamers would have only gotten louder and spite reviews would have done the same damage it is doing now. February have the game playable on last gen, offer refunds, the next 2 DLC (substantial) is free, and maybe they'll have earned back some good will.
But once multiplayer drops at the end of next year, I expect them to charge 20$ for that or more plus a subscription fee ala FFXIV to continue playing and receiving updates to the game (multiplayer).
To deacon.frost: this current gen (PS5/XBOXSX) has been in dev for several years. A lot of developers knew what kind of tech was going to be in it and had the devkits well in advance. They knew this game was capable on this gen but not last gen as that was probably pushed to the side to make sure PS5/SX ran as well as it could. Once last gen was forced, they probably hobbled a team together to get something to work and this is the result.
This game was indev for what? 7 years? Something like that? Then focused on the last 3-4 years? I'm assuming they figured that they wouldn't have to release on previous gen but the current year fucked that up and they had to scramble to get it developed. This has to be the scenario, because CDPR wouldn't release this on old consoles knowing full well that it wasn't ready. To be running pretty well on everything but last gen consoles says they intended for this to be next-gen and PC only. Not making excuses for them by any stretch, just trying to understand the reasoning for going back to include last gen when it wasn't in the cards feasibly.
This would have been solved by delaying release on last gen like someone else mentioned, but the cries from last gen gamers would have only gotten louder and spite reviews would have done the same damage it is doing now. February have the game playable on last gen, offer refunds, the next 2 DLC (substantial) is free, and maybe they'll have earned back some good will.
But once multiplayer drops at the end of next year, I expect them to charge 20$ for that or more plus a subscription fee ala FFXIV to continue playing and receiving updates to the game (multiplayer).
To deacon.frost: this current gen (PS5/XBOXSX) has been in dev for several years. A lot of developers knew what kind of tech was going to be in it and had the devkits well in advance. They knew this game was capable on this gen but not last gen as that was probably pushed to the side to make sure PS5/SX ran as well as it could. Once last gen was forced, they probably hobbled a team together to get something to work and this is the result.
So you talk about this game being in the dev. for 7 years, was announced for PS4 for years, it's not like they suddenly announced PS4 version 2 years ago
This game was indev for what? 7 years? Something like that? Then focused on the last 3-4 years? I'm assuming they figured that they wouldn't have to release on previous gen but the current year fucked that up and they had to scramble to get it developed. This has to be the scenario, because CDPR wouldn't release this on old consoles knowing full well that it wasn't ready. To be running pretty well on everything but last gen consoles says they intended for this to be next-gen and PC only. Not making excuses for them by any stretch, just trying to understand the reasoning for going back to include last gen when it wasn't in the cards feasibly.
This would have been solved by delaying release on last gen like someone else mentioned, but the cries from last gen gamers would have only gotten louder and spite reviews would have done the same damage it is doing now. February have the game playable on last gen, offer refunds, the next 2 DLC (substantial) is free, and maybe they'll have earned back some good will.
But once multiplayer drops at the end of next year, I expect them to charge 20$ for that or more plus a subscription fee ala FFXIV to continue playing and receiving updates to the game (multiplayer).
To deacon.frost: this current gen (PS5/XBOXSX) has been in dev for several years. A lot of developers knew what kind of tech was going to be in it and had the devkits well in advance. They knew this game was capable on this gen but not last gen as that was probably pushed to the side to make sure PS5/SX ran as well as it could. Once last gen was forced, they probably hobbled a team together to get something to work and this is the result.
So you talk about this game being in the dev. for 7 years, was announced for PS4 for years, it's not like they suddenly announced PS4 version 2 years ago
Not saying that at all. Just saying it was probably pushed to the back burner to make sure next-gen was up and running first. PC and next-gen got the bulk of the dev time and money.
Last gen was like "I mean, yeah we can do it, but we'll have to delay either the whole thing or just last gen. It needs to be delayed though. Huh? You can get us one month? Man...psssh...I'd say another 6 months for last gen. What? Either get us something or we're fired? Well. Fuck. Guess we all gonna be fired after this releases. But sure, we'll fucking do it. Your funeral."
On December 22 2020 18:43 Harris1st wrote: Are the different areas divided into different level zones? Or is it just the starting zone for low level and the rest is mixed?
Can't find anything on google
I found that Valentino, 6th st, pacifica, and city center was a bit too high for me starting out. I think the north and east are more accessible starting the game.
On December 22 2020 07:55 BigFan wrote: I haven't played pc games in a long time, but the way the industry has changed over the last decade has always felt bad. Games are a lot more expensive, up from the 30 (max 40 for AAA games) from that period and nowadays, it seems standard that they are littered with bugs upon release. I remember when a game being bug ridden was considered bad, but even then, these bugs were never game breaking and the company patched asap.
This is not true. Games have always had bugs, even game breaking ones, at release. And companies didn't always fix them, let alone quickly. Hell, I when I played The Witcher 1 I ran into a bug that got me stuck in my main quest line in Act 2. I had to load a save file from 10 hours prior (+ all the time I spend ingame because I thought it was my fault). And that was years after the game was released. It's highly likely that bug still exists today. Stuff like this is common and always has been. As far as I'm aware, bug free games don't exist unless you count "playable" movie experiences, which are sold as games.
On December 22 2020 17:11 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:This has to be the scenario, because CDPR wouldn't release this on old consoles knowing full well that it wasn't ready.
Except they admitted that they knew last-gen couldn't handle it and released anyway. For you to believe this you actively have to ignore what management has confessed to.
They wanted to release before the holidays for $$ and were willing to fuck their consumers to get it.
Additionally the PS5 isn't even running a dedicated PS5 version of the game, its simply the PS4 version running thanks for backwards compatibility on better hardware. A specific PS5 version is going to be released later.apptrigger.com
EPT
