EPTRogues get combat invis twice per rest when leveled up, also some other skill to break engagements and move around freely. Another way to be safer in melee is using reach weapons like pike (which cost some dps compared to other melee 2h).
Pillars of Eternity (Obsidian Isometric RPG Kickstarter) -…
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lprk
Poland2249 Posts
Rogues get combat invis twice per rest when leveled up, also some other skill to break engagements and move around freely. Another way to be safer in melee is using reach weapons like pike (which cost some dps compared to other melee 2h). | ||
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ViperPL
Poland1775 Posts
On April 07 2015 19:36 lprk wrote: also some other skill to break engagements and move around freely. Oh man, that skill is either bugged or poorly implemented because whenever I used it my rogue would still get crushed by attacks of opportunity. Luckily it was the first skill I picked when I reached level 2, so I was able to create new character without losing too much time/progress and avoid that garbage skill. | ||
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lprk
Poland2249 Posts
On April 07 2015 20:16 ViperPL wrote: Oh man, that skill is either bugged or poorly implemented because whenever I used it my rogue would still get crushed by attacks of opportunity. Luckily it was the first skill I picked when I reached level 2, so I was able to create new character without losing too much time/progress and avoiding that garbage skill. There are 1 or 2 more talents later which should break engagements, I haven't played melee rogue so I'm not sure if they work properly. | ||
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Nezgar
Germany535 Posts
On April 07 2015 19:10 ViperPL wrote: Does melee dps characters have any place in this game on hard/potd? I wanted my character to do big dips with weapons, and while my rogue certainly does it, whenever I move in to attack I instantly grab all the aggro from everything, even if Eder the tank went in 1st. I had the same problem with a Barbarian; whenever I used Frenzy every other mob would just turn around and smash his face. Ended up just building my melees with 1h + shield in mind and focus on glass cannon ranged DPS (Cyphers). Here are the screenshots I took at some point in act 2 on PotD: + Show Spoiler [Fighter with 1h + Shield] + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/L4r7f0o.png) + Show Spoiler [DPS Barbarian with 2x 1h] + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/fZZvqlj.png) Difference in time is due to the fact that the Fighter was the PC and had that additional time in party with Calisca so you might want to take like 200 damage from the Fighter. On almost all important fights the Barbarian just died. As you can see the damage is pretty similar and the Fighter was even using Defender and a medium shield (-4 accuracy, -20% attack speed) at that time, I later switched to a small shield for increased accuracy - which is the most important thing on PotD. If you really want to go for it, either take a weapon with extended range like Lance or Quarterstaff (although the game is seriously lacking good Quarterstaffs) while hiding behind your meatshield or go for 2x 1h with more defensive talents/attributes/gear. Later on a lot of enemies have high DR and with something like 30 DR on an enemy both 2h and 1h will do same/similar damage per hit. And 2x 1h scales much better with Dexterity. | ||
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lprk
Poland2249 Posts
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-Archangel-
Croatia7457 Posts
On April 07 2015 20:36 Nezgar wrote: I had the same problem with a Barbarian; whenever I used Frenzy every other mob would just turn around and smash his face. Ended up just building my melees with 1h + shield in mind and focus on glass cannon ranged DPS (Cyphers). I think the better option is to dual wield axes as each gives +5 deflection without a accuracy penalty. | ||
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Broetchenholer
Germany1954 Posts
I think the game would benefit from Encounters with less enemies, but stronger ones. | ||
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lprk
Poland2249 Posts
On April 07 2015 21:29 -Archangel- wrote: I think the better option is to dual wield axes as each gives +5 deflection without a accuracy penalty. On potd +10 deflection on barbarian doesn't matter without shield, +deflection talents and investmtents in perception and resolve you aren't reliably avoiding attacks, with or without the hatchets endgame enemies will always hit you. | ||
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Nezgar
Germany535 Posts
On April 07 2015 21:29 -Archangel- wrote: I think the better option is to dual wield axes as each gives +5 deflection without a accuracy penalty. That's why I said that I switched to small shields once I knew that my melees were tanky enough. Dual hatchets for tanking are inferior due to a couple of things: -there are no top tier hatchets in the game that could compete with the boni of other weapons -with 1h + shield you can both learn the "shield + weapon" talent and the "1 handed weapon" talent. The former gives +6 deflect, reflex equal to the deflect of your shield, aswell as 30% of grazes converted to hits which is huge on PotD where you have mostly grazes against stronger enemies. -and then there is this little beast: + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/bgCpH5Q.png) or to sum it up: +26 deflect, +20 reflex, +5 all defenses, +10 defense while prone/stunned and 30% of graze to hit conversion against +5 deflect, 1.2 atk speed and whatever is on your offhand hatchet - either 1.2 atk speed or 3 DR are on the 2 best hatchets in the game. I tried hatchets with the dual wield Barb, the result can be seen in that screenshot of mine :D Even with dual wield or semi-max-dps setup the Barbarian was at something like 27k dmg while both of my cyphers were rocking a solid 60-65k dmg each. I'm pretty sure it this point that you cannot build a melee DPS character that can compete with ranged DPS / Cyphers on PotD without dying all the time. So I ended up with 2 pure tanks (who still deal similar damage to a Barbarian), 2 Support/Offtank and 2 Glass Cannons. Not sure about single handed Saber to be honest. On exceptional quality it's like ~4 dmg difference but the Mace has a better damage type (crush) and ignores 3 DR so it ends up the same in most cases. I think it might actually be the Starcaller Flail that wins the raw damage race against high defense and high DR enemies. It has a graze-to-hit effect and proccs a spellstrike for additional dmg. Might need to do further testing with that one though. Aside from that there are not many good Sabers to be honest. Both relevant unique sabers have a .5 crit modificator, Purgatory has 20% dmg-to-endurance and Resolution a 10% graze to hit effect. You can ignore anything with crit dmg modification on PotD for the most part. Slash is also, at least in my experience, the weakest damage type. Maces have the Ravenwing (+accuracy and damage when attacking the same target as an ally) and Aimoranet (which is superb and has healing). You might even want to consider a spear like Vile Loner's Lance which gives +5 Accuracy and a debuff that reduces all defenses by 5 on the target. Affixes like Disorienting or Marking work pretty well when you focus down strong enemies. In any case it's not as clear cut as it may seem. edit: On April 07 2015 22:10 Broetchenholer wrote: I really don't like the melee Engagement System anymore. If you Play expert or Potd, you will always have more enemies then Engagement slots on your maintank. So, you need an offtank or a second full tank at least for Engagements without chokepoints. If you fight with a chokepoint, every melee char that doesn't use a pike or staff is useless. My roque does great damage, but most of the time he just shoots bolts at the enemy despite not having a single ranged talent. And on potd, a mob not hitting your tanks means probably death. The best composition for everything seems to be 2 full tanks, and 4 ranged damage dealers. once the trash is thinned down, the roque can clean house, but then again, that is really not what he should be about. Selective stealth would be a solution for that, other classes, like barbarians or monks don't want to stealth though but have the same problems. Pretty much my experience aswell. I ended up with 2 Fighter in Defense Mode, 2 Chanters in heavy armor + shield and 2 Cyphers for pure ranged DPS. When fighting in chokes I tend to switch my Chanters to either Pikes or ranged weapons while chanting Ila. Otherwise they are just offtanking to make sure nothing gets to my Cyphers whenever I don't have a choke to fight in. A Fighter in Defense mode with the Hold the line talent and a Shatterstar warhammer can hold 5 enemies in place, just fyi. | ||
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Faust852
Luxembourg4004 Posts
Seriously, the graphisms are terrible for a 4M$ project, you can't even rotate the camera. The interaction with the environement is terrible too, there is almost nothing interesting to do. maps are really smalls too. I hate the tactical pause system for fight too, but that's my preference. I think the story sounds great, but that's pretty much it for me, so I'll stop playing for a while. This game is really stuck in the 90's, and made to please old school nostalgic players. I used to play and love these games, but seriously, that's not an excuse to make a game that could have come 15 ago. | ||
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OsaX Nymloth
Poland3244 Posts
I wouldn't call it "stuck in 90s'. I would call of "modern old school". | ||
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Faust852
Luxembourg4004 Posts
On April 07 2015 22:55 OsaX Nymloth wrote: I could understand complains about the mechanics, especially the battle oriented ones. But graphics? Game is really good looking, even the models are quite solid (especially in comparison to models from Wasteland 2 which are ugly) and the environment is really, really nice. I wouldn't call it "stuck in 90s'. I would call of "modern old school". You'd tell me that this came from 98' I'd believe you. I mean, BG2 is as great looking and the game's 15yo. But I won't spit anymore on the game, I understand why you like it, but to me this game is really outfashioned. I'll try it again in a couple of months, maybe I'm just not in the mood to appreciate a good cRPG. | ||
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Velr
Switzerland10856 Posts
I mean the last good RPG was Beyond Divnity... Which was even more oldschool... Before that? DA: Origins. Which had nice Areas but a bad Mainstory (imho... bad in the sense of "as generic and boring as it gets"). | ||
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Broetchenholer
Germany1954 Posts
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-Archangel-
Croatia7457 Posts
On April 07 2015 23:05 Faust852 wrote: You'd tell me that this came from 98' I'd believe you. I mean, BG2 is as great looking and the game's 15yo. But I won't spit anymore on the game, I understand why you like it, but to me this game is really outfashioned. I'll try it again in a couple of months, maybe I'm just not in the mood to appreciate a good cRPG. This comment says more about you than about the game. To me PoE looks nicer than most modern games when you set the camera to this position and distance. | ||
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BluzMan
Russian Federation4235 Posts
On April 07 2015 22:34 Faust852 wrote: Ok so I tried really hard to like this game, but I really thing that's a game for old geezers stucked in the 90's. Seriously, the graphisms are terrible for a 4M$ project, you can't even rotate the camera. The interaction with the environement is terrible too, there is almost nothing interesting to do. maps are really smalls too. I hate the tactical pause system for fight too, but that's my preference. I think the story sounds great, but that's pretty much it for me, so I'll stop playing for a while. This game is really stuck in the 90's, and made to please old school nostalgic players. I used to play and love these games, but seriously, that's not an excuse to make a game that could have come 15 ago. Games don't automatically get worse with time you know, so your argument is at least a bit strange. Even though Pillars looks much better than BG ever did (the level of detail in the environments has been drastically improved, compare any screenshot), what's wrong with making a game that could have come 15 years ago in a first place? Would you refuse to read a good book just because it's 100 years old? Besides, this kind of rendering has it's unique advantages (mainly, 3d image is always subject to aliasing, this is not so it's kind of pixel-perfect) so it's more of a visual style than technology. The game makes good use of the tech with day/night cycles, dynamic lighting, water and such, the only thing to blame really is the character close-ups, those faces are truly terrible, but it's a minor flaw in an otherwise very good-looking game. | ||
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Faust852
Luxembourg4004 Posts
On April 08 2015 00:08 -Archangel- wrote: This comment says more about you than about the game. To me PoE looks nicer than most modern games when you set the camera to this position and distance. I'm not a graphism addicted twat fyi, I don't play these fancy fps' and action packed games that come out every year. I just thing that in this day and age, we deserve a bit more than a pre rendered background of meh quality. I mean, my GOTY of 2014 was D:OS, and this game is gold in term of graphic compared to PoE. There is much more you can do with the map, the items on the ground and whatnot. You can rotate the fucking camera too. I don't mind the color tone being dark and grim, but we really got a game that's outdated technically here. Don't think I'm bashing the whole game, just the technical and graphical aspect. Especially because they got 4 fucking million dollar for this. On April 08 2015 00:42 BluzMan wrote: Games don't automatically get worse with time you know, so your argument is at least a bit strange. Even though Pillars looks much better than BG ever did (the level of detail in the environments has been drastically improved, compare any screenshot), what's wrong with making a game that could have come 15 years ago in a first place? Would you refuse to read a good book just because it's 100 years old? Besides, this kind of rendering has it's unique advantages (mainly, 3d image is always subject to aliasing, this is not so it's kind of pixel-perfect) so it's more of a visual style than technology. The game makes good use of the tech with day/night cycles, dynamic lighting, water and such, the only thing to blame really is the character close-ups, those faces are truly terrible, but it's a minor flaw in an otherwise very good-looking game. The problem is that with the technology of today, you could make thing much nicer to the eyes. In my opinion anyway. As I said, the game is mainly targetted to the 25+ generation who used to play a shit ton of BG, ID, FO, etc... and are nostalgic of this. | ||
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OsaX Nymloth
Poland3244 Posts
On April 08 2015 00:44 Faust852 wrote: I just thing that in this day and age, we deserve a bit more than a pre rendered background of meh quality. If those backgrounds are "meh quality" then I want more of that meh in my games, thank you.  Would you call Icewind Dale backgrounds also meh? | ||
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Yurie
12057 Posts
http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/76254-103-hotfix-doors-not-opening-due-to-fog-of-war/ Also think the game looks nice. Feels like a good 2010 release graphics wise. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
But it's Obsidian, so a buggy release is par for the course. | ||
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