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On October 12 2013 04:30 altered wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2013 02:35 Aylear wrote:On October 12 2013 01:53 altered wrote:
snip It's not about recons killing you, it's about recons killing you and being untouchable by being on a roof you literally cannot get to in any way whatsoever. I can't take a squad and go clear a rooftop if I want to -- I need a helicopter, and those aren't always available. When those recons also have a support with ammo box and an engineer, their combined PLD / RPG fire and elevator C4 makes it almost impossible to take them down, and they can just take down aircraft 24/7. They arent untouchable.You can 1. countersnipe 2. kill them with a attack heli 3. drop a squad on that roof with a transport heli and wipe them 4. go up by elevator on all roofs that are strategically important 5. ignore them if they are recons 6. even shoot them with a tanks 50cal or the lmg on many positions when the tank is angeled a little. The squad that defends a roof with c4 and pld+rpgs aircraft is also not untouchable for the attack heli. PLD has a range of 300m and stingers have a 350m range, they cause some decent area denial for the helis but can still be taken out outside of lockon range. And afteral that is still a squad (3-5 players) that are working together and using highground to their advantage. The ammount of distraction that tactic causes is well deserved but definitely not overpowered. I see that it creates some problems in public matches where teams are totally uncoordinated and assets arent used to their full potential but im shure that this wont ever be a serious problem in any atleast semi competitive format.
Your point is that people shouldn't talk about problems in pub because it wouldn't be a problem if it wasn't pub? That's insulting and short-sighted. To say that we shouldn't consider fixes to problems because "it's pub" is like saying people shouldn't be allowed to own computers if they can't operate a command line interface.
In pubs they are very hard to kill, and since that is what we're talking about, everything you said is void. Just for the fun of it, however, here are some counter-points:
1. Countersniping is pointless because one or two of my players simply stay hidden until the rest of my squad respawn. This is the infinity hole, and you cannot dislodge it. Also, if my snipers are better than yours, then you're back to square one.
2. Your combat heli gets countered by our combat heli. Otherwise, we down it using RPG/PLD. If it's hovering out of range, we simply hide behind an obstacle until it gets in range, or until my team shoots it down.
3. Transport heli? RPG/PLD. Not hard. Most of the time it'll get killed, and the entire point is that even if your guys drive us off, you can just set up shop there and be equally nigh-unapproachable for a while.
4. Some of the best roofs on the map do not have an elevator, and that includes the absolute tallest one (not including C), meaning our squad can stay alive, while yours cannot. If we're on a roof that has an elevator, well: We have C4. You have a closet. Do the math.
5. What?
6. What?
Yes, it is a squad working well together and holding the high ground, and they should get an advantage from being there. Plenty of other maps in Battlefield history has had some really sweet spots where you can hold and do some serious damage, but they were rarely unassailable, which these roofs truly are. The buildings are so perfectly situated where recons have a good view of most of the map, they can cover 2-3 points on their own, and they provide an endless, almost untouchable spawn point for team mates to attack objectives with impunity, because they can literally jump down and parachute to multiple points from any single roof within seconds.
The map is designed in such a way that why wouldn't you do this? It's perfect for it, which makes people go recon all day, which makes the game boring, which makes the game less fun, which is the problem.
There are some very simple things that can be done to fix the roof camping on SoS, like adding elevators / stairs and fixing the elevator mechanic, and your argument that nothing needs to be done "because it's pub" is bullshit.
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Okay, so I just connected to a Obliteration server and no one was able to pick up the bomb. The map was already running for 240 minutes, lol. Probably still running :D
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Anyone trying to practice heli? I'm looking for players to 1v1 in empty servers.
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Ok, so my verdict is that it is a buy for me, but I felt the guns were sometimes too easy. I don't know what the first carbine was, but I blazed down a lot of foes with almost no recoil and I am not very close to being a good player (honestly, Im not being modest, I bought this game for the graphics and ambiance)
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Hopefully with release we'll get our more specialized guns ala VSS from BC2 or the G3 etc. that are all quite more difficult to use to their fullest, but are incredibly rewarding when you learn to control them.
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I actually like how there is more weight and reward for squad leaders, bonuses and classes working alongside one another like the recon and RPGs. I don't find leveltuion or whatever to be as overrated as people claim.
I also feel squad leaders get a little too many points, I was squad leader and get rank 1 without breaking a sweat or with a negative k/d ratio
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On October 15 2013 20:26 Torte de Lini wrote:
Ok, so my verdict is that it is a buy for me, but I felt the guns were sometimes too easy. I don't know what the first carbine was, but I blazed down a lot of foes with almost no recoil and I am not very close to being a good player (honestly, Im not being modest, I bought this game for the graphics and ambiance)
The carbines are ridiculously strong. As are the DMRs. I was actually far better sniping with the DMR than the first sniper. I don't understand why the sniper bullets travel slower and have far more bullet drop than a dmr. Same with tank rounds. Tank rounds do not drop after 75meters. Yet here it's like they hit something with 200x gravity and instantly plummet. The second sniper however is far better than the first and makes the game ez mode from rooftops.
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Classes seem to be kinda unbalanced, I feel. Recon and Engineer are by far the best classes. Assault only gets played because they've got assault rifles/grenade launcher and I have actually played maps where I have never seen a support at all.
BF3 rewarded dropping medkits and ammo boxes way too much, since it only takes a second to drop one, but now I feel like there is little incentive to drop medkits/ammo boxes at all. Also, please widen the ressurection window a bit, it's way too short now.
On the other hand, I really like what they've done with the class customization itself. Much wider choices regarding different weapon types and some weapons feel better (I hated BF3 Stinger, but I love the new one). You also gain much more points for playing objectives and helping your squad, which I appreciate.
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I feel like balance should just not be a discussion here when it comes to deciding to get BF or not since at every release, it'll always be imbalanced rofl.
Shit, BF3 was all about learning which guns were the most OP to unlock all the other weapons of that class lolol
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On October 16 2013 02:34 Torte de Lini wrote:
I feel like balance should just not be a discussion here when it comes to deciding to get BF or not since at every release, it'll always be imbalanced rofl.
Shit, BF3 was all about learning which guns were the most OP to unlock all the other weapons of that class lolol
I'm not saying AK12 is imbalanced as hell, please fix DICE or something like that. It's more like I don't see much incentive to play support, because it contributes almost nothing to you and your team. Maybe it changes once mortar is back for Support, but for now I think moving the C4 from support to recon was a mistake.
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yeah, Im just kidding around.
Anyone think the first few levels will feel grindy?
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I bet it'll be faster at release. Can't wait for release :D
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Crossing my fingers!
NO platoon support though ):
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On October 16 2013 04:54 Torte de Lini wrote:
NO platoon support though ):
I find it really weird how they let the platoon feature go uncomplete at launch. Isnt the social aspect of games a huge hook for most people these days? Shouldnt it be high on the priority list, or am I completley wrong here?
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I just dont understand why it isnt in the game? Are they adding something new to Platoons or?
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On October 16 2013 01:58 Infernal_dream wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2013 20:26 Torte de Lini wrote:
Ok, so my verdict is that it is a buy for me, but I felt the guns were sometimes too easy. I don't know what the first carbine was, but I blazed down a lot of foes with almost no recoil and I am not very close to being a good player (honestly, Im not being modest, I bought this game for the graphics and ambiance) The carbines are ridiculously strong. As are the DMRs. I was actually far better sniping with the DMR than the first sniper. I don't understand why the sniper bullets travel slower and have far more bullet drop than a dmr. Same with tank rounds. Tank rounds do not drop after 75meters. Yet here it's like they hit something with 200x gravity and instantly plummet. The second sniper however is far better than the first and makes the game ez mode from rooftops.
The drop off on tank rounds is one of the few things that really bothered me in the beta... It's just way too pronounced from a visual perspective IMO. Of course you can adjust for it, but it just looks wrong!
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Keep in mind they have confirmed that they're fixing the misalignment of the tank sights. That fixes one part of the issue with accuracy.
I somewhat like the increased need for aim and experience and feel needed to consistently hit longer range shots. This raises the skillcap for using armor, but this huge drop combined with the lessened splash damage and OP RPG's means it's quite frustrating to deal with infantry.
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I actually kinda like the increased drop on tankshells, i enjoy playing with weapons that have drop in general, thats why i liked the AS Val in bf3 so much. What is concerning though is the slow shell velocity, on huge maps longrange tank fights will become ridiculous if that stays, all the drivers have to do then is constantly move around erratically and they will rarely ever be hit by another tank. Wich, combined with the limited and slow regenerating ammo, will make longrange tank fights useless. Now im not a tank sniper, and play very agressive when in tanks but still this low velocity will impact tankfights to the negative since longrange engagements were a important part of tanking where skilled tankers distinguished themselves from less skilled ones. Closerange tank brawls have a big luck component to them and it would be bad if tanking would be narrowed down to closerange fights. I really hope they buff the velocity even if they keep the drop by adding more gravity.
I dont worry that much about less splashdamage, the tanks are still very effective against infantry. In the base game tanks will have 3 different maincannon shells to choose from the ones we had in beta are the middle ones. There will also be a anti armor shell that does more damage to armor and a anti infantry shell that does more splashdamage.
I disagree that support is a useless class, they have some really good equipment. XM-25 is a great tool to deal with roofcampers or kill reppers. Ammobox is necessary to assist your AT/AA soldiers and defend a position for a longer time. Though there is a huge imballance between the new ammopacks and the traditional ammobox, the ammobox just outclasses the pack in every way. LMGs still deal a decent ammount of suppression wich is, even if it has been toned down, still a usefull mechanic that can be used for teamoriented tactics. C4 will return to support calss at release, it has been confirmed by DICE a while ago that recaon and support will get C4 in the release version. Support will also get mortars in the full game, wich will be remotely controlled and a very usefull tool to clear roofs and more importantly clear mines. Remember the limited ammo on tanks will heavily reduce their capability to deal with spread out mines and therefore delay tankpushes really effectively unless they get supported by infantry with mortars or other mine clearing tools.
All in all the beta was very promising but there is one problem that is a gamebreaker imo and thats lockon RPGs. I had long discussions with my teamates from team symthic and other teams, aswell as competitive players from levelBF and global conflict. And so far the majority of players wheter they are infantry specialists, tankers or helicopter pilots agree that lockon RPGs will probably make the game worse. There is a thread on symthic in preparation that will cover all the aspects of this problem and we encourage people to give DICE feedback on this over twitter and battlelog forums.
I dont want to go into too much detail now but the general problems with PLD+RPG are that lockable RPGs do more damage to armor and air than normally fired ones (2hit kill for a tank, 1 hit kill for choppers) and that they render stingers and javelins obsolete. Now im aware that there are players that would like to see lockon weapons gone in general, im not one of them. I think there is a place for lockon weapons in the game if they are ballanced well but im against lockon RPGs especially if they deal more damage when locked and when you dont have to make a choice between a lockable weapon and a nonlockable one.
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@Alterd.
That 64man obliteration looked fucking amazing from a stream viewers perspective. There was just BF-moments after BF-moments because all the players and vehicles clusterd together. How was it as a player? I imagine it could be quite difficult  .
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EPT
