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On March 27 2014 05:33 Grumbels wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2014 03:07 Geisterkarle wrote:
Super Meat Boy is pressing left, right and two buttons ... seriously, what are we discussing here?
Every speedrun has it's own special challenges. The best speedruns don't look like much! But try to do it yourself and see the hardship you are faced! Complete optimization is rather difficult of course, just like how in Starcraft II many people can macro decently well but wouldn't stand a chance vs a pro player because of a million subtle differences in ability. But I think it becomes too obvious that Mario as a game falls apart if you subject it to speedrunning. I would personally much prefer watching kaizo mario over the regular mario because it seems like the former is designed with speedrunning in mind.
That's why speedrunning isn't a show, it isn't ESPORTS. Of course some games people run are not "optimal speedrun games", you could say that about virtually every RPG. That's why you speedrun for yourself, not for other people. People will watch you if you are entertaining or if there is some hype about the run, but some of the most popular games are pretty bad speedrun games.
A game "falling apart" as a speedrun just doesn't make sense.
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On March 27 2014 05:47 SKC wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2014 05:33 Grumbels wrote:On March 27 2014 03:07 Geisterkarle wrote:
Super Meat Boy is pressing left, right and two buttons ... seriously, what are we discussing here?
Every speedrun has it's own special challenges. The best speedruns don't look like much! But try to do it yourself and see the hardship you are faced! Complete optimization is rather difficult of course, just like how in Starcraft II many people can macro decently well but wouldn't stand a chance vs a pro player because of a million subtle differences in ability. But I think it becomes too obvious that mario as a game falls apart if you subject it to speedrunning. I would personally much prefer watching kaizo mario over the regular mario because it seems like the former is designed with speedrunning in mind. That's why speedrunning isn't a show, it isn't ESPORTS. Of course some games people run are not "optimal speedrun games", you could say that about virtually every RPG. That's why you speedrun for yourself, not for other people. People will watch you if you are entertaining or if there is some hype about the run, but some of the most popular games are pretty bad speedrun games. A game "falling apart" as a speedrun just doesn't make sense.
I don't care what people want to do in their free time and it's impressive to get the world record at anything, but I personally prefer to watch speedruns of games that don't look entirely trivial when subjected to speedrunning and that's why I personally didn't care much for the earlier mario video. I don't understand why I can't talk about what I personally like to watch without your sermon about how it's NOT ESPORTS.
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On March 27 2014 05:57 Grumbels wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2014 05:47 SKC wrote:On March 27 2014 05:33 Grumbels wrote:On March 27 2014 03:07 Geisterkarle wrote:
Super Meat Boy is pressing left, right and two buttons ... seriously, what are we discussing here?
Every speedrun has it's own special challenges. The best speedruns don't look like much! But try to do it yourself and see the hardship you are faced! Complete optimization is rather difficult of course, just like how in Starcraft II many people can macro decently well but wouldn't stand a chance vs a pro player because of a million subtle differences in ability. But I think it becomes too obvious that mario as a game falls apart if you subject it to speedrunning. I would personally much prefer watching kaizo mario over the regular mario because it seems like the former is designed with speedrunning in mind. That's why speedrunning isn't a show, it isn't ESPORTS. Of course some games people run are not "optimal speedrun games", you could say that about virtually every RPG. That's why you speedrun for yourself, not for other people. People will watch you if you are entertaining or if there is some hype about the run, but some of the most popular games are pretty bad speedrun games. A game "falling apart" as a speedrun just doesn't make sense. I don't care what people want to do in their free time and it's impressive to get the world record at anything, but I personally prefer to watch speedruns of games that don't look entirely trivial when subjected to speedrunning and that's why I personally didn't care much for the earlier mario video. I don't understand why I can't talk about what I personally like to watch without your sermon about how it's NOT ESPORTS.
That's why there is a diference between not liking to watch something and shitting on the run because you can't apreciate how impressive it is.
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On March 27 2014 06:05 SKC wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2014 05:57 Grumbels wrote:On March 27 2014 05:47 SKC wrote:On March 27 2014 05:33 Grumbels wrote:On March 27 2014 03:07 Geisterkarle wrote:
Super Meat Boy is pressing left, right and two buttons ... seriously, what are we discussing here?
Every speedrun has it's own special challenges. The best speedruns don't look like much! But try to do it yourself and see the hardship you are faced! Complete optimization is rather difficult of course, just like how in Starcraft II many people can macro decently well but wouldn't stand a chance vs a pro player because of a million subtle differences in ability. But I think it becomes too obvious that mario as a game falls apart if you subject it to speedrunning. I would personally much prefer watching kaizo mario over the regular mario because it seems like the former is designed with speedrunning in mind. That's why speedrunning isn't a show, it isn't ESPORTS. Of course some games people run are not "optimal speedrun games", you could say that about virtually every RPG. That's why you speedrun for yourself, not for other people. People will watch you if you are entertaining or if there is some hype about the run, but some of the most popular games are pretty bad speedrun games. A game "falling apart" as a speedrun just doesn't make sense. I don't care what people want to do in their free time and it's impressive to get the world record at anything, but I personally prefer to watch speedruns of games that don't look entirely trivial when subjected to speedrunning and that's why I personally didn't care much for the earlier mario video. I don't understand why I can't talk about what I personally like to watch without your sermon about how it's NOT ESPORTS. That's why there is a difference between not liking to watch something and shitting on the run because you can't appreciate how impressive it is.
Did I do that? I make one comment on how speedrunning mario only requires one button and to me it becomes boring to watch and now I'm the worst person ever?
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On March 27 2014 06:18 Grumbels wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2014 06:05 SKC wrote:On March 27 2014 05:57 Grumbels wrote:On March 27 2014 05:47 SKC wrote:On March 27 2014 05:33 Grumbels wrote:On March 27 2014 03:07 Geisterkarle wrote:
Super Meat Boy is pressing left, right and two buttons ... seriously, what are we discussing here?
Every speedrun has it's own special challenges. The best speedruns don't look like much! But try to do it yourself and see the hardship you are faced! Complete optimization is rather difficult of course, just like how in Starcraft II many people can macro decently well but wouldn't stand a chance vs a pro player because of a million subtle differences in ability. But I think it becomes too obvious that mario as a game falls apart if you subject it to speedrunning. I would personally much prefer watching kaizo mario over the regular mario because it seems like the former is designed with speedrunning in mind. That's why speedrunning isn't a show, it isn't ESPORTS. Of course some games people run are not "optimal speedrun games", you could say that about virtually every RPG. That's why you speedrun for yourself, not for other people. People will watch you if you are entertaining or if there is some hype about the run, but some of the most popular games are pretty bad speedrun games. A game "falling apart" as a speedrun just doesn't make sense. I don't care what people want to do in their free time and it's impressive to get the world record at anything, but I personally prefer to watch speedruns of games that don't look entirely trivial when subjected to speedrunning and that's why I personally didn't care much for the earlier mario video. I don't understand why I can't talk about what I personally like to watch without your sermon about how it's NOT ESPORTS. That's why there is a difference between not liking to watch something and shitting on the run because you can't appreciate how impressive it is. Did I do that? I make one comment on how speedrunning mario only requires one button and to me it becomes boring to watch and now I'm the worst person ever?
Yes, when you say the WR run isn't that impressive because he only runs forward and presses a button you are definatelly dimishing an absurdly difficult feat with who knows how many frame perfect jumps that is frames away from as fast as humanly possible.
It's very common for people to question the validity of runs that are not as visually pleasent, which is why that kind of comment is often taken harshly. Plus you seems to have a tendency to exagerate, such as when you say I said you were the worst person ever.
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On March 27 2014 06:36 SKC wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2014 06:18 Grumbels wrote:On March 27 2014 06:05 SKC wrote:On March 27 2014 05:57 Grumbels wrote:On March 27 2014 05:47 SKC wrote:On March 27 2014 05:33 Grumbels wrote:On March 27 2014 03:07 Geisterkarle wrote:
Super Meat Boy is pressing left, right and two buttons ... seriously, what are we discussing here?
Every speedrun has it's own special challenges. The best speedruns don't look like much! But try to do it yourself and see the hardship you are faced! Complete optimization is rather difficult of course, just like how in Starcraft II many people can macro decently well but wouldn't stand a chance vs a pro player because of a million subtle differences in ability. But I think it becomes too obvious that mario as a game falls apart if you subject it to speedrunning. I would personally much prefer watching kaizo mario over the regular mario because it seems like the former is designed with speedrunning in mind. That's why speedrunning isn't a show, it isn't ESPORTS. Of course some games people run are not "optimal speedrun games", you could say that about virtually every RPG. That's why you speedrun for yourself, not for other people. People will watch you if you are entertaining or if there is some hype about the run, but some of the most popular games are pretty bad speedrun games. A game "falling apart" as a speedrun just doesn't make sense. I don't care what people want to do in their free time and it's impressive to get the world record at anything, but I personally prefer to watch speedruns of games that don't look entirely trivial when subjected to speedrunning and that's why I personally didn't care much for the earlier mario video. I don't understand why I can't talk about what I personally like to watch without your sermon about how it's NOT ESPORTS. That's why there is a difference between not liking to watch something and shitting on the run because you can't appreciate how impressive it is. Did I do that? I make one comment on how speedrunning mario only requires one button and to me it becomes boring to watch and now I'm the worst person ever? Yes, when you say the WR run isn't that impressive because he only runs forward and presses a button you are definatelly dimishing an absurdly difficult feat with who knows how many frame perfect jumps that is frames away from as fast as humanly possible. It's very common for people to question the validity of runs that are not as visually pleasent, which is why that kind of comment is often taken harshly. Plus you seems to have a tendency to exagerate, such as when you say I said you were the worst person ever.
If you find yourself constantly getting upset at the same thing maybe the problem lies with you. It's not impressive to watch for me, I don't care if it takes 100000 hours of mastering frames, it's just not tremendously appealing. How can you interpret personally not being impressed by something as trying to burn it into the ground?
anyway, off to bed and please stop attacking me, thanks
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Canada8036 Posts
You made a dismissive comment in a thread about speedrunning. I'm honestly not sure what sort of response you expected.
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On March 27 2014 05:33 Grumbels wrote:
Complete optimization is rather difficult of course, just like how in Starcraft II many people can macro decently well but wouldn't stand a chance vs a pro player because of a million subtle differences in ability. But I think it becomes too obvious that Mario as a game falls apart if you subject it to speedrunning.
Isn't this precisely contradictory?
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I would agree that some games look easy or unimpressive when speedrun well. Compare Yoshi's Island to Super Mario Bros for example. But you get more of an apreciation of speedrunning once you give it a try.
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On March 27 2014 07:41 Spazer wrote:
You made a dismissive comment in a thread about speedrunning. I'm honestly not sure what sort of response you expected.
No hostile comments directed at me. Surely that was an overreaction to my original comment. I just want to be able to say something on an internet forum without being under attack.
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On March 27 2014 17:27 Grumbels wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2014 07:41 Spazer wrote:
You made a dismissive comment in a thread about speedrunning. I'm honestly not sure what sort of response you expected. No hostile comments directed at me. Surely that was an overreaction to my original comment. I just want to be able to say something on an internet forum without being under attack.
Dude no one is attacking you or making hostile comments. People can disagree with you without it being personal. Deal with it.
I'm don't understand how people can speedrun RPGs sometimes. Was watching someone (sorry I forgot who atm) making WR paced run of FF6 and like 10 min before the end of the run some bad RNG messed up the runners slots manipulation and ended the run. I don't think I could deal with something like that after a 5 hour run, and I'd hate to think of the pan of something like that happening in a 10 hour+ run. If I ever find a game I feel like speed running I think it would have to be a 2-3 hour run at most.
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On March 27 2014 17:27 Grumbels wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2014 07:41 Spazer wrote:
You made a dismissive comment in a thread about speedrunning. I'm honestly not sure what sort of response you expected. No hostile comments directed at me. Surely that was an overreaction to my original comment. I just want to be able to say something on an internet forum without being under attack.
Would you also go in the LoL subforum for instance and tell them that their game is infinitely easier compared to StarCraft? No, you probably wouldn't, lest you want to get banned for starting unnecessary shit in what's basically the TL home of their particular community. ^^
Simple as that.
On March 27 2014 18:30 Tictock wrote:
I'm don't understand how people can speedrun RPGs sometimes. Was watching someone (sorry I forgot who atm) making WR paced run of FF6 and like 10 min before the end of the run some bad RNG messed up the runners slots manipulation and ended the run. I don't think I could deal with something like that after a 5 hour run, and I'd hate to think of the pan of something like that happening in a 10 hour+ run. If I ever find a game I feel like speed running I think it would have to be a 2-3 hour run at most.
Obligatory post with Joshimuz' VOD where he was nearing the end of his GTA:San Andreas run and had a plane randomly crash on him. XD
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On March 27 2014 18:39 MasterOfPuppets wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2014 17:27 Grumbels wrote:On March 27 2014 07:41 Spazer wrote:
You made a dismissive comment in a thread about speedrunning. I'm honestly not sure what sort of response you expected. No hostile comments directed at me. Surely that was an overreaction to my original comment. I just want to be able to say something on an internet forum without being under attack. Would you also go in the LoL subforum for instance and tell them that their game is infinitely easier compared to StarCraft? No, you probably wouldn't, lest you want to get banned for starting unnecessary shit in what's basically the TL home of their particular community. ^^ Simple as that. Show nested quote +On March 27 2014 18:30 Tictock wrote:
I'm don't understand how people can speedrun RPGs sometimes. Was watching someone (sorry I forgot who atm) making WR paced run of FF6 and like 10 min before the end of the run some bad RNG messed up the runners slots manipulation and ended the run. I don't think I could deal with something like that after a 5 hour run, and I'd hate to think of the pan of something like that happening in a 10 hour+ run. If I ever find a game I feel like speed running I think it would have to be a 2-3 hour run at most. Obligatory post with Joshimuz' VOD where he was nearing the end of his GTA:San Andreas run and had a plane randomly crash on him. XD
The plan doesn't randomly crash but rather crashes always at the specific point. Josh might play the game alot but he is neither really skilled nor knowledgeable about GTA:SA
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RWhiteGoose is the best sweater wearing speech making song singing speedrunner out there.
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On March 27 2014 12:34 ControlMonkey wrote:
I would agree that some games look easy or unimpressive when speedrun well. Compare Yoshi's Island to Super Mario Bros for example. But you get more of an apreciation of speedrunning once you give it a try.
The Grand Theft Auto runs definitely have this problem. Most of the time it doesn't look like there's anything crazy going on, but runs like GTA3 any% are in fact very optimised and planned out to great detail. People don't realise that something that sounds trivial (not crashing into the random traffic) is actually not trivial at all but takes a great deal of practice and experience. Annoys the hell out of me when people say it's just a 'faster let's play' when they have no clue what they're talking about.
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On March 31 2014 22:51 AdamAK wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2014 12:34 ControlMonkey wrote:
I would agree that some games look easy or unimpressive when speedrun well. Compare Yoshi's Island to Super Mario Bros for example. But you get more of an apreciation of speedrunning once you give it a try. The Grand Theft Auto runs definitely have this problem. Most of the time it doesn't look like there's anything crazy going on, but runs like GTA3 any% are in fact very optimised and planned out to great detail. People don't realise that something that sounds trivial (not crashing into the random traffic) is actually not trivial at all but takes a great deal of practice and experience. Annoys the hell out of me when people say it's just a 'faster let's play' when they have no clue what they're talking about.
Driving as fast as possible through traffic while optimizing your routes and taking tiny little risks constantly... while on keyboard is damned impressive to me. I don't even want to mess with that, but yeah this is a thing that will sadly always happen.
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On March 27 2014 18:30 Tictock wrote:
If I ever find a game I feel like speed running I think it would have to be a 2-3 hour run at most.
Run Pokemon Leaf Green any%. It's 8% routing, 2% skill and 90% RNG not killing you.
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Ah damn you crate! Looks so good!
And I still didn't manage to get this work on my PC....
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lol oops I just found a (very obvious in retrospect, of course) way to skip the level 2 autoscroller, but of course I did that after I got another new PB today
sub-16 probably happening by the end of the week
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EPT
